The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Wow! That would be awesome, I hope it happens

Some Jetskins have worked for us, others have not.

I am a Ramsey guy. So, I agree that a one-to-one deal would be unfair... to the Redskins.

A guy that can move the offense and give some instant credibility to that offense for just -one- component of the defense? QBs are more valuable than DEs.

If the pot needs to be sweeetened, it would be in -our- favour. There are other younger DEs in the draft guys.

I can't believe all of the gushing over Abraham! If you can remember, this is a guy that did't want to play the final, meanless, games for the Jets, because he thought that it might hurt his Free Agency value. What ME attitude! If the skins pick this guy up, by the end of training camp, his teamate and the coaching staff will be ready to kill him. Doesn't play hurt, whines, is selfish, poor tackler, hard to coach.......NEED I SAY MORE.
P.S Ask Herm about Abe

Redskin in Canada wrote:QBs are more valuable than DEs.

Yes, but not backup QB's... Everyone says our defense is just one good pass rusher away from being elite, and with Abraham...

However, it's not looking too good. I was watching NFL Total Access and Adam Shefter said that if the CBA does not get agreed on and the 07 season becomes uncapped, then we are screwed.

So right now, I think everything sits on the CBA

Redskin in Canada wrote:A guy that can move the offense and give some instant credibility to that offense for just -one- component of the defense? QBs are more valuable than DEs.

Who are you talking about? Patrick Ramsey? The man with a career quarterback rating of 75.0?

Ramsey might have potential, but the fact remains that he hasn't really improved in his four years in the NFL, and has barely put together a complete game of football, let alone a full season. Abraham, on the other hand, has put up double-digit sacks every season he has started a full season. Why wouldn't the Jets just sign Trent Dilfer rather than trade John Abraham+ for Ramsey alone?

I would take a look at Ramsey if I were the Jets, but I wouldn't trade my franchise player for him straight up, especially when names like Phillip Rivers are also being thrown around.

Quarterbacks are more valuable than defensive ends, but that doesn't mean mediocre quarterbacks are better than stud (albeit oft-injured) defensive ends.

i get pretty tired of the seemingly endless slew of ignorant comments about ramsey. ramsey hasn't improved? yeah, he was terrible this year when he helped us beat the giants, right? and in 2004, boy he sure was awful in his starts, huh? actually, those of us with our heads pulled out of our butts watched him play quite competitively, including against a Superbowl team (twice) and an AFC Championship team.

but yeah, that doesn't matter, his rating is 75.0, he sucks. i mean he must be a complete bum to not have taken advantage of the awesome offensive weaponry he had around him- rod gardner, lav "the toe" coles, derrius thompson, trung canidate. boy, those guys all achieved instant superstar status as soon as they left the redskins, huh??

compare that to joey harrington, who has managed a magnificent 68.1 QB rating. what about david carr, who just had a significant extension activated in his contract? 73.7 QB rating. these guys have played about 60 games each, ramsey has played in 33.


anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

die cowboys die wrote:i get pretty tired of the seemingly endless slew of ignorant comments about ramsey. ramsey hasn't improved? yeah, he was terrible this year when he helped us beat the giants, right? and in 2004, boy he sure was awful in his starts, huh? actually, those of us with our heads pulled out of our butts watched him play quite competitively, including against a Superbowl team (twice) and an AFC Championship team.

Ramsey threw 25 passes in 2005, and you think that proves he has improved? Talk about ignorance.

As for 2004, I think his 74.8 rating and 10/11 touchdown to interception ratio is pretty much the definition of mediocre - and actually worse stats than his 2003 (75.8 14/9).

die cowboys die wrote:but yeah, that doesn't matter, his rating is 75.0, he sucks. i mean he must be a complete bum to not have taken advantage of the awesome offensive weaponry he had around him- rod gardner, lav "the toe" coles, derrius thompson, trung canidate. boy, those guys all achieved instant superstar status as soon as they left the redskins, huh??

If all of Ramsey's problems came from dropped passes, bad route-running and poor seperation, I would agree with you. But anyone who has watched Redskin games objectivley knows that Ramsey didn't exactly play at an All-Pro level.

Besides, if you are going to reward Ramsey for playing with bad recievers in the past, you have to punish him for playing with an awesome one in 2005. Take away the 75-yard pass to Moss (which was a bad pass that Moss just made an incredible play on), and Ramsey's quarterback rating dips to 66.58.

die cowboys die wrote:compare that to joey harrington, who has managed a magnificent 68.1 QB rating. what about david carr, who just had a significant extension activated in his contract? 73.7 QB rating. these guys have played about 60 games each, ramsey has played in 33.

Did I say Ramsey was the only mediocre quarterback in the NFL, or the only quarterback who hadn't improved? Did I say Carr or Harrington were more valuable?

die cowboys die wrote:anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

If we offered them a candy bar, don't you think the Chargers might offer them two candy bars? Do you seriously think we are the only team in the NFL who would like an extremely talented defensive end, or the only NFL team who would be willing to offer a young, talented quarterback?

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Quarterbacks are more valuable than defensive ends, but that doesn't mean mediocre quarterbacks are better than stud (albeit oft-injured) defensive ends.

Patrick is not a mediocre QB and he has shown his value at different times. So, I am on record to say that a one-to-one in this case is not favourable to us.

Are you saying that THIS QB is no better than THAT undisciplined, disgruntled and oft-injured DE? Why?

I think this would be an interesting deal but I don't know how it will happen. Abraham rubbed me the wrong way by sitting out the last few games a couple of seasons ago.

And we still have our own cap situation to take care of.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Are you saying that THIS QB is no better than THAT undisciplined, disgruntled and oft-injured DE? Why?

That is what I'm saying. Abraham has averaged .73 sacks a game, and nearly nine a season, despite being undiscipline, disgruntled and oft-injured.

What has Ramsey accomplished? Why is there real reason to believe he will imrpove?

If you really don't believe that Abraham is more valuable than Ramsey, what kind of contract do you think the two would fetch on the open market? If they were both making the league minimum, which would be chosen most often by NFL general managers?

If you really think the 27 year-old backup quarterback is better than the 27 year-old (soon to be 28 ) two-time Pro Bowl defensive end, then I don't know what I can say that will change your mind.

Jake wrote:I think this would be an interesting deal but I don't know how it will happen. Abraham rubbed me the wrong way by sitting out the last few games a couple of seasons ago.

And we still have our own cap situation to take care of.

I agree about Abraham's attitude. The only reason to believe it could work is Greg Williams wouldn't take that kind of crap and whip him into shape.

I'm not counting on many big name moves this off season in the first place due to our cap situation.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Some Jetskins have worked for us, others have not.

I am a Ramsey guy. So, I agree that a one-to-one deal would be unfair... to the Redskins.

A guy that can move the offense and give some instant credibility to that offense for just -one- component of the defense? QBs are more valuable than DEs.

If the pot needs to be sweeetened, it would be in -our- favour. There are other younger DEs in the draft guys.

LOL....You can't be serious.

die cowboys die wrote:anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

Delusional. We can't afford him? Why are we cutting everybody ? To fit him under the cap. Ive got a candy bar for you. Go somehwere and eat it.

I love to see this happen,but am get really scared about this CBA can we afford him.

plus has only one person heard of this rumor about the deal is almost done?

SirSmizzy wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

Delusional. We can't afford him? Why are we cutting everybody ? To fit him under the cap. Ive got a candy bar for you. Go somehwere and eat it.

You tagged him you HAVE TO fit him under the cap No later than 3:59pm next Thursday. They can alway untag him and let him walk

1niksder wrote:

SirSmizzy wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

Delusional. We can't afford him? Why are we cutting everybody ? To fit him under the cap. Ive got a candy bar for you. Go somehwere and eat it.

You tagged him you HAVE TO fit him under the cap No later than 3:59pm next Thursday. They can alway untag him and let him walk

We can afford him,plain and simple.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:i get pretty tired of the seemingly endless slew of ignorant comments about ramsey. ramsey hasn't improved? yeah, he was terrible this year when he helped us beat the giants, right? and in 2004, boy he sure was awful in his starts, huh? actually, those of us with our heads pulled out of our butts watched him play quite competitively, including against a Superbowl team (twice) and an AFC Championship team.

Ramsey threw 25 passes in 2005, and you think that proves he has improved? Talk about ignorance.

As for 2004, I think his 74.8 rating and 10/11 touchdown to interception ratio is pretty much the definition of mediocre - and actually worse stats than his 2003 (75.8 14/9).

die cowboys die wrote:but yeah, that doesn't matter, his rating is 75.0, he sucks. i mean he must be a complete bum to not have taken advantage of the awesome offensive weaponry he had around him- rod gardner, lav "the toe" coles, derrius thompson, trung canidate. boy, those guys all achieved instant superstar status as soon as they left the redskins, huh??

If all of Ramsey's problems came from dropped passes, bad route-running and poor seperation, I would agree with you. But anyone who has watched Redskin games objectivley knows that Ramsey didn't exactly play at an All-Pro level.

Besides, if you are going to reward Ramsey for playing with bad recievers in the past, you have to punish him for playing with an awesome one in 2005. Take away the 75-yard pass to Moss (which was a bad pass that Moss just made an incredible play on), and Ramsey's quarterback rating dips to 66.58.

die cowboys die wrote:compare that to joey harrington, who has managed a magnificent 68.1 QB rating. what about david carr, who just had a significant extension activated in his contract? 73.7 QB rating. these guys have played about 60 games each, ramsey has played in 33.

Did I say Ramsey was the only mediocre quarterback in the NFL, or the only quarterback who hadn't improved? Did I say Carr or Harrington were more valuable?

die cowboys die wrote:anyways, all of that is beside the point in the first place. it's absurd for anyone to suggest we need to "sweeten the pot" for this deal. ABRAHAM IS ALREADY OFF THE JETS TEAM. there is absolutely no possibility of them retaining him (they can not afford it). if we gave them a candy bar, it would be a great deal for them because they would at least get SOMEthing. and once again, they are DESPERATE for a QB.

anyways.

If we offered them a candy bar, don't you think the Chargers might offer them two candy bars? Do you seriously think we are the only team in the NFL who would like an extremely talented defensive end, or the only NFL team who would be willing to offer a young, talented quarterback?

I'm tired of repeatedly trotting out statistics that prove Ramsey to be the most successful Redskin quarterback over the past four years so won't do it again; but will take the time to refer one and all to the fact, and remind one and all that he did it with poor coaching and poor receivers.
As for his being mediocre, he's averaged about 200 yds per start over his career, which puts him in the company of the league's finer quarterbacks.
Redskin fans seems to have bad memories about Ramsey successes and great ones about Ramsey failures. I don't know why. I guess it's part of a need to justify Gibb's behavior.
Whatever, it's an interesting but unfair abberation.

crazyhorse1 wrote:I'm tired of repeatedly trotting out statistics that prove Ramsey to be the most successful Redskin quarterback over the past four years so won't do it again; but will take the time to refer one and all to the fact, and remind one and all that he did it with poor coaching and poor receivers.

Ramsey does compare favorably to other Redskin quarterbacks of the past four years. Unfortunately for us, the Jets get to choose their personnel from a group of players that is slightly bigger than the Shane Matthews and Mark Brunells of the world. That's like saying Derrick Frost was the Redskins' best punter in 2005. So what?

crazyhorse1 wrote:As for his being mediocre, he's averaged about 200 yds per start over his career, which puts him in the company of the league's finer quarterbacks.
Redskin fans seems to have bad memories about Ramsey successes and great ones about Ramsey failures. I don't know why. I guess it's part of a need to justify Gibb's behavior.
Whatever, it's an interesting but unfair abberation.

First of all, Ramsey has averaged 193.3 yards per start, which puts him in the company Gus Frerotte.

Second of all, yards per start is a pretty meaningless stat, as Ramsey was able to accumulate a larger amount of yards due to the fact the Redskins were losing, and thus passing more often. Ramsey's career completion percentage is 55.7. That puts him in the company of Aaron Brooks and Michael Vick.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:I'm tired of repeatedly trotting out statistics that prove Ramsey to be the most successful Redskin quarterback over the past four years so won't do it again; but will take the time to refer one and all to the fact, and remind one and all that he did it with poor coaching and poor receivers.

Ramsey does compare favorably to other Redskin quarterbacks of the past four years. Unfortunately for us, the Jets get to choose their personnel from a group of players that is slightly bigger than the Shane Matthews and Mark Brunells of the world. That's like saying Derrick Frost was the Redskins' best punter in 2005. So what?

crazyhorse1 wrote:As for his being mediocre, he's averaged about 200 yds per start over his career, which puts him in the company of the league's finer quarterbacks.
Redskin fans seems to have bad memories about Ramsey successes and great ones about Ramsey failures. I don't know why. I guess it's part of a need to justify Gibb's behavior.
Whatever, it's an interesting but unfair abberation.

First of all, Ramsey has averaged 193.3 yards per start, which puts him in the company Gus Frerotte.

Second of all, yards per start is a pretty meaningless stat, as Ramsey was able to accumulate a larger amount of yards due to the fact the Redskins were losing, and thus passing more often. Ramsey's career completion percentage is 55.7. That puts him in the company of Aaron Brooks and Michael Vick.

Do u honetly think any Redskin fan is going to listen to Steve Spurrier

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Ramsey does compare favorably to other Redskin quarterbacks of the past four years. Unfortunately for us, the Jets get to choose their personnel from a group of players that is slightly bigger than the Shane Matthews and Mark Brunells of the world. That's like saying Derrick Frost was the Redskins' best punter in 2005. So what?

crazyhorse1 wrote:As for his being mediocre, he's averaged about 200 yds per start over his career, which puts him in the company of the league's finer quarterbacks.
Redskin fans seems to have bad memories about Ramsey successes and great ones about Ramsey failures. I don't know why. I guess it's part of a need to justify Gibb's behavior.
Whatever, it's an interesting but unfair abberation.

First of all, Ramsey has averaged 193.3 yards per start, which puts him in the company Gus Frerotte.

ACTUALLY, Ramsey's 193 yds per start puts him in the company of Hall of Famer John Elway for one. In his first four years, Elway averaged 200 yds per start on a far better team than Ramsey ever played for and with far better protection than Ramsey ever had.
Also, and here's a really interesting fact. Ramsey had a completion percentage of 56.9% and Elway had a completion percentage of 54%.

Also interestly enough. Denver fans thought Elway was a QB of great promise and stuck by him. Redskin fans thought Ramsey was a QB of great promise and immediately abandoned their own convictions and turned against him when a beloved coach prefered to go with an older quarterback who proved too injured to play well.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Ramsey does compare favorably to other Redskin quarterbacks of the past four years. Unfortunately for us, the Jets get to choose their personnel from a group of players that is slightly bigger than the Shane Matthews and Mark Brunells of the world. That's like saying Derrick Frost was the Redskins' best punter in 2005. So what?

crazyhorse1 wrote:As for his being mediocre, he's averaged about 200 yds per start over his career, which puts him in the company of the league's finer quarterbacks.
Redskin fans seems to have bad memories about Ramsey successes and great ones about Ramsey failures. I don't know why. I guess it's part of a need to justify Gibb's behavior.
Whatever, it's an interesting but unfair abberation.

First of all, Ramsey has averaged 193.3 yards per start, which puts him in the company Gus Frerotte.

ACTUALLY, Ramsey's 193 yds per start puts him in the company of Hall of Famer John Elway for one. In his first four years, Elway averaged 200 yds per start on a far better team than Ramsey ever played for and with far better protection than Ramsey ever had.
Also, and here's a really interesting fact. Ramsey had a completion percentage of 56.9% and Elway had a completion percentage of 54%.

Also interestly enough. Denver fans thought Elway was a QB of great promise and stuck by him. Redskin fans thought Ramsey was a QB of great promise and immediately abandoned their own convictions and turned against him when a beloved coach prefered to go with an older quarterback who proved too injured to play well.

very well said. Wherever ramsey goes, i will be an instant fan of that team.

crazyhorse1 wrote:ACTUALLY, Ramsey's 193 yds per start puts him in the company of Hall of Famer John Elway for one. In his first four years, Elway averaged 200 yds per start on a far better team than Ramsey ever played for and with far better protection than Ramsey ever had.
Also, and here's a really interesting fact. Ramsey had a completion percentage of 56.9% and Elway had a completion percentage of 54%.

Let me preface this by saying I like Ramsey a lot, and I think he has a lot of potential. But he hasn't proven to be a very good NFL quarterback.

Comparing Elway to Ramsey is hilarious. You might have forgotten one big difference. Elway could run, well. Ramsey is a freaking statue. Elway was dangerous because he could run it when the play broke down. If the play breaks down on Ramsey, he throws one hell of a nice interception or takes a nice sack.

193 yards per game on a 16 game season would be 3088 yards. Considering the great NFL quarterbacks throw for 4000 regularly, I'm not sure how you can compare him to "the greats".

Elway averaged 219 yards per game anyways. He also had a 57:43 TD to INT ratio. Ramsey has a 53:47 TD to INT ratio. Factor in Elway's running, and I have no idea how you can compare Ramsey to Elway.

Ramsey's career stats are pretty similar to Frerottes, actually.

Pat Ramsey. 55.7% career completion. 34 TD, 29 INT, 5649 yards, 6.6 Yards per attempt. Career rating of 75.0.

Gus Frerotte. 54.1% completion. 95 TD, 79 INT, 18093 yards. 6.9 yards per attempt. Career rating of 75.3.

Looks like to me that Frerotte is actually a better quarterback.

Heck, just for fun, let's look at Charlie Batch.

Charlie Batch. 56.2% Competions. 50 TD, 41 INT. 9309 Yards, 6.8 Yards per attempt. Career rating? 76.9.

Ouch.

PulpExposure wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:ACTUALLY, Ramsey's 193 yds per start puts him in the company of Hall of Famer John Elway for one. In his first four years, Elway averaged 200 yds per start on a far better team than Ramsey ever played for and with far better protection than Ramsey ever had.
Also, and here's a really interesting fact. Ramsey had a completion percentage of 56.9% and Elway had a completion percentage of 54%.

Let me preface this by saying I like Ramsey a lot, and I think he has a lot of potential. But he hasn't proven to be a very good NFL quarterback.

Comparing Elway to Ramsey is hilarious. You might have forgotten one big difference. Elway could run, well. Ramsey is a freaking statue. Elway was dangerous because he could run it when the play broke down. If the play breaks down on Ramsey, he throws one hell of a nice interception or takes a nice sack.

193 yards per game on a 16 game season would be 3088 yards. Considering the great NFL quarterbacks throw for 4000 regularly, I'm not sure how you can compare him to "the greats".

Elway averaged 219 yards per game anyways. He also had a 57:43 TD to INT ratio. Ramsey has a 53:47 TD to INT ratio. Factor in Elway's running, and I have no idea how you can compare Ramsey to Elway.

Ramsey's career stats are pretty similar to Frerottes, actually.

Pat Ramsey. 55.7% career completion. 34 TD, 29 INT, 5649 yards, 6.6 Yards per attempt. Career rating of 75.0.

Gus Frerotte. 54.1% completion. 95 TD, 79 INT, 18093 yards. 6.9 yards per attempt. Career rating of 75.3.

Looks like to me that Frerotte is actually a better quarterback.

Heck, just for fun, let's look at Charlie Batch.

Charlie Batch. 56.2% Competions. 50 TD, 41 INT. 9309 Yards, 6.8 Yards per attempt. Career rating? 76.9.

Ouch.

how are gus's and pat's stats similar? gus has 95 tds and pat has 34?

BOTTOM LINE IS the redskins gave up on ramsey way too early. I hope he leaves washington, he needs to get out of here.

I hope this deal does NOT come through.

Let the Jets and Abe have yet another miserable season together.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Um, that is insane... How could that be possible?

We'd be ripping the Jets a new one, surely we would have to offer a lot more in terms of players and this would probably mean we have to cut Arrington (providing it would save us money, there are still issues with the CBA), Hall, Bowen, etc.

I would LOVE for this to happen, don't get me wrong, but geez, it's an awful lot to expect.

I dont think so really. The Jets have not renewed Penningtons contract and are surely in need of a Qb. They just might think Ramsey is the answer. Also Abraham has been unhappy playing for the Jets for a while now. Something might be able to happen. Truthfully Id trade Ramsey for a first round pick or a couple of picks a second and third round pick. I love Ramsey but hey sometimes sacrifices must be made. All in all I doubt any of this will happen but hey well see.