The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:That IS the point, RIC. Sally Jenkins is not the public. The Washington Post is not the public.

The coin has two sides. Some people will tell you that even bad publicity is "good" publicity.

My take is different. You obviously speak of a discerning public. One beyond and far above the power of persuasion and influence. If this was the case, Coca cola and the Washington Post would have gone out of business LONG time ago.

I feel that you underestimate the power of the media, which while not infinite it certainly is very considerable. One of the subjects that I am familiar with is the power of the media, its role to form public opinion in the world, and its responsibility to engage and promote resolution of national and international disputes.

You would be surprised to hear a few anecdotes, some of them in our own countries, as to how little it takes to spread a lie, a distortion, a spin, or a misrepresentation (partial or total) of the facts. It is so easy that sometimes you ask if we EVER get the facts straight.

How long has it taken to Joe to clarify time and time again that he is not retiring before the end of his contract? It took ONE joke placed out of context and presented in a sensationalist manner to create a lasting negative effect that is felt TO THIS DAY. Hear some of the latest interviews by Joe at the end of the season.

The public is not stupid. But we form our opinions based on information and perceptions, the likes of which we have decreasing control over in this "information" age.

No, it is not a good idea to humiliate members of the media. Specially, it is not a good idea to do it in such IMMATURE and CHILDISH way. For a builder of a public relations company empire, Mr. Snyder should not be happy with whoever did this on his behalf to look "good" in his book.

There were other ways. There was in particular the Joe Gibbs way, which brings people to HIS camp as opposed to ensure animosity for all eternity.

The BEST enemy is that which becomes your friend. That is the genius of all successful diplomats and Statesmen. It is also the genius of one of the quintessential American success stories: Dale Carnegie.

How to Win Friends and Influence People

http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/car ... iends.html

Please have a look at it to understand ONE among several interpretations of this philosophy and we can exchange views later.

I can give other examples of great people that used the same social philosophy approach to great success: M. Gandhi, Dalai Lama, etc, etc.

There is only one logical explanation for all of this.

RIC is Sally Jenkins.

JonC56 wrote:There is only one logical explanation for all of this.

RIC is Sally Jenkins.

Does RIC make anyone else want to climb to the top of some Tibetan mountain to meditate and find the true meaning of life?

No! But I would like to send Sally J and D Effin Eflin there

JonC56 wrote:There is only one logical explanation for all of this.

RIC is Sally Jenkins.

Actually, I had wanted to keep my personal identity as private as I could but it is impossible now in the face of this "revelation".

I am really the Dalai Lama and my true colours are burgundy and gold.

I feel that you underestimate the power of the media, which while not infinite it certainly is very considerable. One of the subjects that I am familiar with is the power of the media, its role to form public opinion in the world, and its responsibility to engage and promote resolution of national and international disputes.

BS. Those who would be influenced by such drivel have already decided that Danny is a petulant spoiled jerk, who is playing football god, and has destroyed the Redskins for all time. In other words, they already believe as Jerkins does. No loss to the Redskins.

The vast majority (apparently excluding RIC) of Redskins fans will love this ad, and will not find their opinions of the 'skins front office lowered in the least. In fact, speaking for only myself, I am absolutely THRILLED that someone had the gonads to rub this in a few noses.

RIC... your apologistic response to this reminds me of those who seek to rationalize the behavior of murdering terrorist scum... you know, "they only do this because they have been persecuted... we should try to understand them, to correct the wrongs perpetrated upon them, to stop doing whatever it is that we do that pisses them off." CRAP. THEY DO WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE THEY ARE MURDERING TERRORIST SCUM!!!

Sally Jerkins does what she does because she is a petulant whining baby who has been denied her exclusives. Fat Len does what he does because he is a bitter and pathetic has-been writer. Both will continue to spew, regardless what the Redskins front office does. The Redskins have endured their abuse for at least 4 years. Franky, I think their restraint is remarkable.

You plainly don't get it. Redskins fans will be Redskins fans, regardless the wishes and hopes of Sally Jenkins. Whom do you know that has any faith in her writings, other than the Sports Editiorial staff of the Washington Post??? Read My Lips... N-O O-N-E. Seeing her arrogant nose rubbed in the manure alienates no one but the weak of heart, and the fence sitters. Those who are truly offended by the ad are most likely one of two groups... sports"writers" who already hate the Danny, and Dallas Cowboys fans, who rely upon Sally Jenkins for succor. Who needs them? Are YOU less of a fan today than you were 2 weeks ago? Well?

Do you know what REALLY alienates me? Condescension. Capice?

RIC is this a place for you to discuss the redskins or just a forum for you to display your superior intellect. Your long dragging posts, that make the issue at hand so much more then it really is, show that you get some gratification in showing people how your morals and beliefs are higher then everyone else.

And by the way go back and look up what public relations are. Do the fans in the DC area by season tickets or is the media.

Ok, Im waiting on your essay of how this is all meaningless drivel, and how the dalai lama would handle the situation differently.

JonC56 wrote:RIC is this a place for you to discuss the redskins or just a forum for you to display your superior intellect. Your long dragging posts, that make the issue at hand so much more then it really is, show that you get some gratification in showing people how your morals and beliefs are higher then everyone else.

And by the way go back and look up what public relations are. Do the fans in the DC area by season tickets or is the media.

Ok, Im waiting on your essay of how this is all meaningless drivel, and how the dalai lama would handle the situation differently.

Since you like to call people out let me tell you about yourself.

1st of all personal attacks are NOT allowed outside of the smack forum. Attack the post not the poster.

2nd of all emoticons are NOT allowed in signatures.

3rd review the rules before posting anything else. I was kind enough to link them to you.
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11

At least his surperior intellect allows him to follow the rules which you cannot seem to do. So please remove the icon from your signature and post your meaningless drivel in regards to this thread in the smack forum if you wish to continue.

Thanks.

Did I miss something here?I read the article that Sally wrote. I really don't see what the big deal is!!!!!Looks like to me that she is trying to give Brunell some credit in putting the Redskins in the playoffs.If you have ever been down on your luck, wondering if you can ever get back, to where you want to be in life.Sometimes that can be a hard thing for some people to deal with!!!I don't know, what other kind of articles has Sally done.Did she slam Brunell in the past and Gibbs?Is Sally just being honest that she made a mistake?(just another sports writer if you ask me)

Countertrey

1, Some Redskins fans like you might find this ad amusing. Others like me will not. All others who are not Redskin fans simply laugh at the low level that some in the organization feel they must go to vent.

2. Your analogy between my opinion on the ineffective way in which this action was conducted and any other opinion on any other matter is uninformed and pure speculation. You have no idea what my views are on other issues and there is little use in taking this discussion out of context.

3. All along I have failed to convey my main message to you. I have enormous dislike for biased writers against us. I believe that they must be called for their prejudices, lies and many other negative actions against us. My beef is with the means chosen to do it.

4. I am not less of a Redskins fan today than I was a week ago. In fact, I am convinced that Joe Gibbs would look at this ad with the same disdain that I do. Not because he loves biased writers any more than you and I do, but because there are more effective and classy ways to do it.

Countertrey wrote: Do you know what REALLY alienates me? Condescension. Capice?

I provided documented evidence of an effective approach to deal with difficult people. I did not expect that an attempt at an educated response would be misinterpreted. But there is no way to predict how this type of posts may play with some posters after quite a few frustrating Skins years.

By the way, I am a fan of the man in your avatar. I enjoyed his play and courage. He would have been a Gibbs guy.

JonC56 wrote:Ok, Im waiting on your essay of how this is all meaningless drivel, and how the dalai lama would handle the situation differently.

If it was worth it, I would. Believe me.

1, Some Redskins fans like you might find this ad amusing. Others like me will not. All others who are not Redskin fans simply laugh at the low level that some in the organization feel they must go to vent.

Actually, I suspect that the majority of Redskins fans will find this ad amusing. To wit: the response your comments and expressed opinions have elicited

2. Your analogy between my opinion on the ineffective way in which this action was conducted and any other opinion on any other matter is uninformed and pure speculation. You have no idea what my views are on other issues and there is little use in taking this discussion out of context.

It was nothing more than that. An analogy. Not a commentary on what other, unrelated opinions you might hold. My intent was to relate that a kinder, gentler approach to good old Ms. Jenkins is akin to a naive and self-defeating appeasement of al Qaeda... (and, no, it is not my intent to declare Sally a member of the "Axis of Weasel"... just a little hyperbole)

3. All along I have failed to convey my main message to you.

No, you've been quite clear. I just disagree with you.

4. I am not less of a Redskins fan today than I was a week ago.

As I suspected. That is MY point. The true fan base changes not one iota.

I did not expect that an attempt at an educated response would be misinterpreted.

I am not a child. I am not dense. I can actually grasp a complicated abstraction. Remarkable, no? Call it misinterpretation if you'd like... it smelled of condescension to me. The response you've gotten from several others only supports my "misinterpretation". It's cool, though... I still like you. It's possible to have disagreement, and still be friends... in fact, I think those debates are the most fun.

By the way, I am a fan of the man in your avatar. I enjoyed his play and courage. He would have been a Gibbs guy.

You do have great taste in classic cornerbacks. Consider, though, I think he would have LOVED the ad. It's consistent with the type of player he was... just ask Harold Charmichael. Fischer loved "payback".

Great reply.

Countertrey wrote: It's possible to have disagreement, and still be friends... in fact, I think those debates are the most fun.

I agree to agree.

Countertrey wrote: just ask Harold Charmichael. Fischer loved "payback".

The Mouse was one of my top five favourite players of his time. Can you imagine Pat's heart and character into Sean Taylor's body? Scary!

All is cool here too.

Can you imagine Pat's heart and character into Sean Taylor's body? Scary!

No doubt. As effective as he was, he lived almost exclusively on heart, guile, gonads, and intellect. He had below average physical talent, probably never weighed the 175 pounds that the press releases gave him credit for, and had the footspeed to beat Lenny Haus if the wind was favorable. He would never be given the opportunity today. Indeed...imagine The Mouse with Taylor's size and talent. That would truly be a terrifying player.

I didn't comment right away even though my first reaction to the ad was that great feeling you get when someone obnoxious eats crow.


But, I have to say that I've been persuaded by RiC in this matter. Our organization shouldn't have to print ads like that; I can't really see how it's mending anything, and it could certainly come back to haunt the Danny. It feels good now, but not for any of the right reasons. It's the same kind of good feeling that Seahawks fans got when Holmgren said that they lost to the Steelers and the refs.


RiC, I'd really be interested to know why you are so sure that it came from inside the organization. You can PM me or just post it in this thread if you're still willing to tell (I couldn't tell what you meant by "another message").

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:But, I have to say that I've been persuaded by RiC in this matter.

Yes he has however I still think it's a good ad to end out a season where the home team was put down at almost every turn. No matter what the Redskins did the Sally Js of the press had something negative to say. I think is even cooler that the pointed out the Fans of the Washington Redskins have minds of their own and didn't tune the team out or stop going to the games.

Was there a truce called between the Skins and the Post or are they still in "conflict" about the of coverage the Skins

This ad sure proves someone's point. I say "someone's point" because I don't know the name of the person that said "Redskins fans are the best Fans in all of sports"

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

JonC56 wrote:RIC is this a place for you to discuss the redskins or just a forum for you to display your superior intellect. Your long dragging posts, that make the issue at hand so much more then it really is, show that you get some gratification in showing people how your morals and beliefs are higher then everyone else.

And by the way go back and look up what public relations are. Do the fans in the DC area by season tickets or is the media.

Ok, Im waiting on your essay of how this is all meaningless drivel, and how the dalai lama would handle the situation differently.

Since you like to call people out let me tell you about yourself.

1st of all personal attacks are NOT allowed outside of the smack forum. Attack the post not the poster.

2nd of all emoticons are NOT allowed in signatures.

3rd review the rules before posting anything else. I was kind enough to link them to you.
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11

At least his surperior intellect allows him to follow the rules which you cannot seem to do. So please remove the icon from your signature and post your meaningless drivel in regards to this thread in the smack forum if you wish to continue.

Thanks.

Thank you for telling me about myself. I was lost and now Im found. Theres meaning in my life, but I will respect the rules so sorry for the personal attack. I just find it rather ridiculous, the multiple posts by RIC that is.

No doubt that Redskins fans are the best in the world.We sellout out the largest stadium every year,we have the largest waiting list for season tickets,and we are loyal to our Washington Redskins!!!

JonC56 wrote:I just find it rather ridiculous, the multiple posts by RIC that is.

I am quite alright with disagreements. I am particularly fine with discussions held with intelligent posters that do not share my views. This was the case of Countertrey. He has a track record in this board that I respect. He is a mature and knowledgeable guy.

You, on the other hand, seem to have not only a disagreement with my opinion posted in ths thread and my posts in general but also a -personal- dislike. If you have something personal and/or a burning desire to attack me personally, I can oblige. Propose a time and date to meet in the smack forum to attack me personally and I will do my best to accommodate your invitation.

Bring whatever grey mass you have in your head though. You have been warned.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote: RiC, I'd really be interested to know why you are so sure that it came from inside the organization. You can PM me or just post it in this thread if you're still willing to tell (I couldn't tell what you meant by "another message").

Let me provide a few points:

1) The add plays into the hands of many Redskins faithful who have accumulated an enormous amount of frustration over the years due to the deadly combination of bad management, playing lousy and losing, and the rubbing by the media.

2) The add singles out -only- two local sport writers among quite a few others who could have been named. There are others who have written at least as bad if not worse articles about our team. Some -non local- writers in Sports Illustrated come to mind.

3) This was an add whose content was -not- based on the winning record of the Skins. Several posters highlight our winning accomplishments in several signatures in this board. Something like: sweep of the Pukes, sweep of Philthy, 10-6 record, arrival to the playoffs, first round victory against Tampa in the playoffs, etc, etc.

But no. The add does not mention the winning record and the many individual success stories of the team at all. Instead, this add focused on the -marketing- success of the Redskins:

a) Record of attendance; and
b) highest TV ratings in the -local- market.

In other words, the add focuses on the ability of the Redskins to be a successful marketable product for advertisements, endorsements and profit.

The add was not intended mainly to vindicate the Redskins or to rub the media. It was intended to make the point that the marketable product has economic -value- and the implication is that all those terrible articles were understood by somebody as unsuccessful attempts to devalue the marketing and business profitability of the most valuable franchise in all of sports. In other words, they -failed- to hurt him in his -local- financial base.

1niksder wrote: Was there a truce called between the Skins and the Post or are they still in "conflict" about the of coverage the Skins

Do you think that this message was received, never mind who specifically sent it, as a sign of a truce?

It is a business war.

It is a business war in the best (or worst) byzantine tradition of the beltway.

Ah! And yes, even if it is a self-gratuitous praise, the Washington Redskins fans are the best and most knowledgeable in the NFL, Joe Gibbs himself said so!

(Regardless of who owns the team).

Redskin in Canada wrote:

1niksder wrote: Was there a truce called between the Skins and the Post or are they still in "conflict" about the of coverage the Skins

Do you think that this message was received, never mind who specifically sent it, as a sign of a truce?

It is a business war.

It is a business war in the best (or worst) byzantine tradition of the beltway.

Ah! And yes, even if it is a self-gratitous praise, the Washington Redskins fans are the best and most knowledgeable in the NFL, Joe Gibbs himself said so!

(Regardless of who owns the team).

My point was no one has called a truce and this is the type of ad that you'll get in this type of battle.

1niksder wrote:My point was no one has called a truce and this is the type of ad that you'll get in this type of battle.

Understood. My point is somebody in Redskin Park better think of a more intelligent strategy to fight, or better yet, put a stop to this war.

I think you're right RiC, but IMO this was an OK way to have a dig at these 2 and in that paper (rag is more apt) and also to point out that the fans know better and support the team.

I know what you are saying and even agree that Gibbs' prefers the high road but this team is our team and those 2 (in particular) took the opportunity to attack us (and the Redskins) a lot more forcibly than the tone of that letter of "apology".

It will be interesting to see what happens next

Like you said - hopefully the hatchet is buried! pardon the pun

Redskin in Canada wrote:Look guys, I know we feel very strongly about being put down unfairly by the media -FOR YEARS-.

The deal is done. Nothing I say can change that. All I will add is that THIS IS NOT A CLASSY WAY of doing it. This is not Joe Gibbs' way.

I still remember the fact that Joe Gibbs HIMSELF asked immediately to have the sound system playing "Moms do not your children grow up cowboys" shut down at the end of the game against the Pukes in Washington. I agree with that. One should have CLASS in victory and in defeat.

How stupid do these "sports expert writers" look now? GEEEESSH! Did you need to read it in an add to be informed about it? Did you need to see the rubbing on the paper?

Many of you may not be familiar with the way the media works -inside- close doors. You may not want to know it. These people know that they WERE wrong already. There are some -inside- that have REMINDED them about it. In their own limited "damage control" way, they had already written pieces backpedaling on their initial opinions.

They know they bet against Joe and they lost.

What you can not do is to enter a BIG FIGHT and expect to come out of it clean without a punch on our faces. Even if we win the fight, the other side is going to get back at us in the future.

I am not a person that wishes to pick up a fight for his own gratification because it is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!

Politicians, actors, musicians, and sports people KNOW that it is not a great idea to EMBARRASS the media. It is A LOT smarter to hold your fire and use the opportunity to have a truce.

The alternative is to make things WORSE for us fans and our players and coaches. Not smart, say what you might.

On the one hand, you will have erased from your smile the gratification given to you by this add by tomorrow.

The writers EMBARRASED by this add, on the other hand, will NEVER forget that this was done to them. And they will find out who was directly and indirectly responsible for the add.

Another disastrous public relations move. Then we complain why our players do not get voted to the HOF by the media.

Absolutely true, unfortunately. I've been a member of the press for decades more than I like to think about, and do confess we hold a grudge. I've also been on the other end of grudges. Don't presume writers too professional to lie in wait. In my experience, writers are akin to assassins, but poorly paid.

If the ad (not 'add', don't know how they abbreviate the word in Canada) were directed at anyone other than Sally Jenkins, I would agree completely with RIC. She simply has no place writing about the Skins from her lair up in NYC.

I really wish she would just stick to writing about Olympic Ice Dancing. She must be in her glory right about now.

As for all of this talk about the Dalai Lama simply reinforces my feeling that he's a big hitter, that Lama. Now how's about a little something, you know, for the effort?