The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:Does anyone know the closest that Monk has ever gotten before? Has he been to the final six before, and just not gotten the 80% go ahead?

I'm checking my past posts.

2005 -- Made the 10, but not the 6
2004 -- Didn't make the 10
2003 -- Made the 10, but not the 6

Can't tell before that. I believe 2001 was his first year eligible.

Class of 2007 doesn't really get any "jump at you" first year eligibles. Lets hope for next year!!! I didn't realize we had four guys from the dc metro area on the committee. These guys need to push harder in that room. 2008 Green, Monk, Grimm in!!!

Jamal Anderson
Donnell Bennett
Herman Moore
Leroy Butler
Randall Cunningham
Bruce Matthews - i think he is a lock, 14 pro bowls!!!
Tony Siragusa
Terrell Davis
Sean Dawkins
Raghib Ismail

RedskinsFreak wrote:

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:Does anyone know the closest that Monk has ever gotten before? Has he been to the final six before, and just not gotten the 80% go ahead?

I'm checking my past posts.

2005 -- Made the 10, but not the 6
2004 -- Didn't make the 10
2003 -- Made the 10, but not the 6

Can't tell before that. I believe 2001 was his first year eligible.

Honestly, that looks enough like progress to me for me to be optimistic. These numbers, combined with the media attention that Monk does get. . .well, it does give me hope.

The Hogster wrote:It's hard to argue with anyone who got in except Rayfield Wright.

The ONLY one that you could argue for over Monk was White...

White was a hands down no brainer, but so was Monk!

Aikman - a completely unspectacular QB with mediocre stats. The only reason that I felt that he was a HOF QB was because he was a QB and started and won 3 SBs. Other than that he isn’t even worth mentioning for the HOF and certainly not a finalist.
Moon - He was the Anti-Aikman; was a spectacular QB in the CFL and during the regular season, but sucked in the post season (3/7). He suffered from Peyton Manning’s syndrome before Peyton even played at Tennessee.
Madden – regular season stats were great (103/32), but he was barely over 500 in the post season (9/7). He only won one SB for Pete’s sake! I guess TV and your own game = HOF.
Harry Carson – OK, I actually think this guy should have been in a LLLOOONNNGGG time ago!
Rayfield Wright – WHO? I guess Roger Staubach crying this week that the media was biased, get this, against the Cowboys, actually paid off.

I agree Matthews is -- by far -- the most qualified on that list.

TD's career was just too short even though its zenith was exceptionally good.

What a flippin tradgedy! Art Monk and Russ Grimm not in the HOF?!?! Well, I'd have to be in the Smack forum to say what I really think.

I admit, I am depressed. Most if not all of you know how important this cause is to me. However, somehow, I am not surprised.

I am not surprised not because I have become a cynic about the lack of ability of MOST sports writers to make a fair and informed decision. This is not a surprise to me in this regard, notwithstanding the fact that each time a group (I do not use the loose term "class") is inducted, the election itself speaks as much of the players as it does about the voters.

I am not surprised because I maintained all along this season that in order for Art Monk to make it, the Redskins needed at least to make it to the Superbowl. We didn't. He didn't go through. Period.

You see folks, this is not only about Art Monk the receiver, the fantastic stats, the great clutch player, the pillar of his team in the league and society after that around him. No.

This outcome was long predicted BECAUSE, for as long as we do not make the voters in the media have to EAT CROW, nobody is going to do so voluntarily.

1) The old voters biased against Art will not change as a matter of PRIDE. Yes, these are the A$$HOLES from Sports Illustrated and others.

2) The newer voters DID NOT WATCH ART PLAY. They are told stories about Joe but did not really know him. They ONLY have one year, this year to go by and THAT was not enough.

3) The past between the two Joe Gibbs tenures left us with an UNEDUCATED OWNER who rather than surround himself with great staff and teams, made the Washington Redskins become the laughing stock of the NFL. Nobody respected the Skins until Joe came back and to be precise this last season.

4) Danny Snyder is a powerful and insanely rich man. But he has picked fights with MANY of the media members who oppose Art the most. You may say that this is unfair and even unethical. You would be right. Why would a good man, a great player, and somebody that did not ever pick a fight with any of these media types pay now for the ridicule and fights entered into by Dan Snyder? No, it does not make sense to you and me. But this is the ONLY way several of them can get at Dan Snyder and the Skins.

Last but not least, I am not optimistic. Players like Jerry Rice will become eligible soon. The "new" standard by which others before Jerry will be judged will be set too high.

But I am a patient man. There is a Chinese proverb that applies in this case. It goes something like this:

"When you REALLY have a BAD enemy, when somebody has done you very WRONG; DO NOTHING!

Seat outside by the door of your house and... wait.

One day, sooner than you expect, the coffin of your enemy will pass in front of you on its way to the graveyard.

I am waiting in front of my door. I am waiting for the coffins of the likes of Peter King and Paul Zimmerman to pass bye in order to throw a party.

Something is TRULY VERY sick with this process when people of this low caliber can judge the worth of a MAN and a PLAYER of the HIGH CLASS and GREAT QUALITY as that of Mr. Art Monk.

The Hogster wrote:It's hard to argue with anyone who got in except Rayfield Wright...I don't see how in anyone's universe he goes before Russ Grim. Grimm was the better lineman, and won more rings. He also protected 3 championship QBs and didn't ride a superstar QB's coattail to any wins.

You could not be more wrong. He was considered to be the dominant tackle of his era and was called numerus times by Deacon Jones to be "the best tackle I ever faced".

That he took this long to get in, by the vet commitee no less, is as big a travesty as any other.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's hard to argue with anyone who got in except Rayfield Wright.

The ONLY one that you could argue for over Monk was White...

White was a hands down no brainer, but so was Monk!

Aikman - a completely unspectacular QB with mediocre stats. The only reason that I felt that he was a HOF QB was because he was a QB and started and won 3 SBs. Other than that he isn’t even worth mentioning for the HOF and certainly not a finalist.
Moon - He was the Anti-Aikman; was a spectacular QB in the CFL and during the regular season, but sucked in the post season (3/7). He suffered from Peyton Manning’s syndrome before Peyton even played at Tennessee.
Madden – regular season stats were great (103/32), but he was barely over 500 in the post season (9/7). He only won one SB for Pete’s sake! I guess TV and your own game = HOF.
Harry Carson – OK, I actually think this guy should have been in a LLLOOONNNGGG time ago!
Rayfield Wright – WHO? I guess Roger Staubach crying this week that the media was biased, get this, against the Cowboys, actually paid off.

I disagree, from an OBJECTIVE non-Redskins standpoint and purely from a football standpoint....Moon, Aikman, White and Carson all deserve to be in.

I just don't think the argument for Wright holds up. Grimm is hands down the better lineman. I also think Monk should have went in years passed. While I think that its a shame Monk hasn't gotten in, I am not going to resort to knocking other deserving candidates. Aikman, White, Moon, all deserve it. Carson is just getting in now because he's been passed over for longer than Monk has.

Monk should be in this year...but the only person on the list that you can say didn't deserve it is Rayfield Wright....he was a good lineman on a good team. Shouldn't have went before Monk or Grimm.

Primetime42 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's hard to argue with anyone who got in except Rayfield Wright...I don't see how in anyone's universe he goes before Russ Grim. Grimm was the better lineman, and won more rings. He also protected 3 championship QBs and didn't ride a superstar QB's coattail to any wins.

You could not be more wrong. He was considered to be the dominant tackle of his era and was called numerus times by Deacon Jones to be "the best tackle I ever faced".

That he took this long to get in, by the vet commitee no less, is as big a travesty as any other.

Shut up...you are a Cowboy fan and your opinion doesn't carry weight over here.

Which HOF voters have to "be removed" before Art gets in ??

Jesus - Michael "Pothead" Irvin made the cut before Art Monk did ?? All Monk did was break the record books and hold most of the major receiving records when he retired. And he didn't play in the pass happy league we have now. Nor did he play on an offense that was pass first like some of the other WRs (*cough* Jerry Rice).

Seriously - someone needs to fire these guys from their sportwriter positions so we can get some new blood in there.

I was right - Both NY SI buddies pulled for the former Giant, but not Art Monk:

"I really got behind two guys: Bob Kuechenberg and Harry Carson....Thank god Carson finally made it...I think some people felt bad, and you know Peter King and I were behind him....I'm just really glad he got in."

As for Monk?

"He wasn't a focal figure....He was a good, sturdy team guy. But that wasn't enough"

The man, according to the statistics, WAS THE GREATEST RECEIVER THE NFL HAD EVER SEEN - That only gets you a "good"?!

The man, according to the record books, HELPED HIS TEAM TO FOUR SUPER BOWLS - That only gets you "sturdy team guy"?!

Insane....no, I mean me now - This is driving me insane.

ooooooooooooooh deacon jones

ATV wrote:I was right - Both NY SI buddies pulled for the former Giant, but not Art Monk:

"I really got behind two guys: Bob Kuechenberg and Harry Carson....Thank god Carson finally made it...I think some people felt bad, and you know Peter King and I were behind him....I'm just really glad he got in."

As for Monk?

"He wasn't a focal figure....He was a good, sturdy team guy. But that wasn't enough"

The man, according to the statistics, WAS THE GREATEST RECEIVER THE NFL HAD EVER SEEN - That only gets you a "good"?!

The man, according to the record books, HELPED HIS TEAM TO FOUR SUPER BOWLS - That only gets you "sturdy team guy"?!

Insane....no, I mean me now - This is driving me insane.

Now, I've got no beef with Harry Carson personally, but let's just remember that he wasn't the Giants linebacker that everybody feared - we all know who that was. In fact, opponents probably feared both Taylor and Banks before Carson. But that argument is used against Monk - why not Carson?

Carson put up a lot of numbers for tackles, but numbers aren't everything. That argument is used against Monk, but not Carson.

Carson was the glue that held the Giants' D together for many years. That argument is used for Carson, but not Monk.
Carson was a good sturdy team guy. That counts in his favour, but against Monk?

I'm glad I don't have to cancel my SI subscirption, because I've always found Knitting Weekly to be a better read anyway.

It sucks that they can't see what we see. I'm sick 2 cowgirls went in.

The Hogster wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's hard to argue with anyone who got in except Rayfield Wright.

The ONLY one that you could argue for over Monk was White...

White was a hands down no brainer, but so was Monk!

Aikman - a completely unspectacular QB with mediocre stats. The only reason that I felt that he was a HOF QB was because he was a QB and started and won 3 SBs. Other than that he isn’t even worth mentioning for the HOF and certainly not a finalist.
Moon - He was the Anti-Aikman; was a spectacular QB in the CFL and during the regular season, but sucked in the post season (3/7). He suffered from Peyton Manning’s syndrome before Peyton even played at Tennessee.
Madden – regular season stats were great (103/32), but he was barely over 500 in the post season (9/7). He only won one SB for Pete’s sake! I guess TV and your own game = HOF.
Harry Carson – OK, I actually think this guy should have been in a LLLOOONNNGGG time ago!
Rayfield Wright – WHO? I guess Roger Staubach crying this week that the media was biased, get this, against the Cowboys, actually paid off.

I disagree, from an OBJECTIVE non-Redskins standpoint and purely from a football standpoint....Moon, Aikman, White and Carson all deserve to be in.

I just don't think the argument for Wright holds up. Grimm is hands down the better lineman. I also think Monk should have went in years passed. While I think that its a shame Monk hasn't gotten in, I am not going to resort to knocking other deserving candidates. Aikman, White, Moon, all deserve it. Carson is just getting in now because he's been passed over for longer than Monk has.

Monk should be in this year...but the only person on the list that you can say didn't deserve it is Rayfield Wright....he was a good lineman on a good team. Shouldn't have went before Monk or Grimm.

You can disagree with my oppinion bases on the facts around each player, but the plain simple fact is the only finalist other than White that ever owned an NFL record was Monk. Other than White, Monk was the easyest selection of the 15. There are only three major areas that you can judge an NFL receiver: receptions, yards, and TDs. Monk was the best ever in receptions and near the top in yards. Yes Gibbs liked to run the ball in so Monk's TDs are relatively low. Aikman, Moon, Carson and Wright never hald a single NFL record, let alone three!

Art Monk should have been elected just on the basis of the model citizen that he is since the selection committee apparently doesn't want to recognize him for the statistics he compiled during his career. And, for tht reason, if really burns my rear end that Irvin made it further than Art Monk did. And as far as SI goes, several years ago, when it took about 65 pages to finally get to the first "sport" that was actually "illustrated" in the magazine, I decided then it was time to dump it.

it,s a disgrace to say the least.
this is a joke.
politics have ruined sports in general and the same goes for the HOF voting.

These are the Hall of Shame voters:

Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selectors
Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Furman Bisher, The Atlanta Journal
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina Charles Chandler, Charlotte Observer
Chicago Don Pierson, Chicago Tribune*
Cincinnati Chick Ludwig, Dayton Daily News
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
Detroit Jerry Green, The Detroit News*
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFX Overland Park, KS
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, Boston Globe
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Paul Zimmerman, Sports Illustrated
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Jerry Magee, San Diego Union Tribune*
San Francisco Ira Miller, San Francisco Chronicle*
Seattle John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington Len Shapiro, Washington Post*
PFWA David Elfin, Washington Times
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large Dave Goldberg, Associated Press*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Bob Oates, Los Angeles Times
At Large Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
At Large Mike Wilbon, Washington Post

I bet Mike Wilbon doesn't even vote for Monk. And how in the world does Irvin make it one step further than Monk in both years he has been elligable! Proof possitive thatthese guys are idiots, and why don't former players and coaches sellect the HOF? Instead of a bunch of Pencil neck Geeks or fat blowhard.

Aikman: colleague of the HOF voters;
Madden: colleague of the HOF voters;
Irving: colleague of the HOF voters (made it to the last round, which Art didn't.....

Nuff said.

SHAME ON THE HOF!!!!!!!

Travesty. Despicable.

Warren Moon? A long term journeyman QB. Nothing more.

Art Monk's absence from the Hall of Fame is sickening.

i'd like to see john riggins on that list of voters, I think he could convince most of them that Monk should be in.

Grinding my teeth over the HOF voters' stupidity in neglecting Monk again.

Hey guys I missed the Hall of Fame inductions. Did he get in?

Well, I guess all the voters missed it too because no he didn't.