The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

fredp45 wrote:We had a super year -- I can't wait for free agency, the draft and preseason to begin. To that end, I've gotten over our loss and figured it's time to begin the fun of figuring out what our 2006 team will look like.

I'll start by identifying some players I don't see being on the team next year. In some cases, I'd rather keep them but for various reasons, they'll be gone:

Ray Brown
LeVar Arrington
Patrick Ramsey
Cory Raymer
Matt Bowen
John Hall
Walt Harris
Brandon Noble
David Patten

Of course, there will be others gone too, but they're deep on the depth chart anyway.

What do others think?

With John Hall, I think it depends on camp. I do not think he is 100%. I forgive the missed field goal today, but he has to kick his kickofffs deeper.

I think that apart from Santana, ey and the RBs, the rest of the receivers may be gone.

Cory Rayner has been on the team for awhile, and he is not veyr expensive.

Ramsey really depends on what other teams offer for him. I do not think he will be cut, but he might be traded.

I cannot see Lavar coming back and making superstart money next year when he is not a superstar anymore. Regardless of whether he counts against the cap or not, if I am paying the bills I do not give a guy who has called me a thief $12 Million if the guy isn't going to be the feature playmaker in the defense.

I think we might make a change at punter.

The Hogster wrote:Taylor Jacobs is a pusss

Best. Post. Ever.

Just watched the locker room interviews on redskins.com. and it reaffirmed a few things...

Lavaur needs to stay! He wants to be here and loves the city and the fans. In my heart i believe L.A. is a redskin.

Taylor Jacobs HAS to go. I think Larry Micheal injured him twice just from his questions during the interview.

ey is Hilarious and its going to be fun watching him over the years. I loved when they asked him what he learned this season, and he said "losing Sucks" Just the way he said it was classic.

Ray Brown is a Hard A$s.

Santana Moss Cares. About winning, and about being on this team. Him and portis are great for this teams character, heart and passion to play hard.

And lastly.. when they asked if brunell felt ok and he immediatly said "Im fine". Thats a bad sign. To me.. he looked very old the last 4 weeks of the season. Granted he is pretty old, and the team hadnt had a bye since week 3. Im sure the whole team was tired. But Marks Arm strength scares me. Great guy, good season but just wondering how he would fare in another full season....

no, patten is worthless as a #2 option, we need another REAL WR. patten should probably be kept around as viable depth at the position though- look what happened today, we had to pull people out of the crowed and suit them up at WR. though if we save 2 million or so by cutting and we need that space to get another real WR, there's no question we should cut him.

Patten didn't forget how to catch my friend. Additionally, Patten has the speed and experience that DB's have to respect. This is why you saw Moss getting open for alot of yards this year before Patten went out. Outside of the Cowboys and Giants (who inexplicably left him in 1vs1 coverage) Moss didn't do as well without Patten in the lineup. Moss needs another speedy WR that will make opposing Defenses play honestly. I think Patten is fine to keep around. He's nto costing that much. But if we get someone better and just as fast then I'm all for putting Patten at #3. I don't disagrew with you about the WR depth though. We need better quality depth. This is why I stated that Jacobs has to go.

Who, besides the obvious retiring Ray Brown, needs to be purged from the roster for next season ?
Here's my early picks. I'm prepared to take a bunch of heat for them.
Robert Royal-Terribly incionsistant, questionable hands
David Patten-"Me Me Me...More Me"
Taylor Jacobs-The project is over.
Lavar Arrington-Needs a new environment to flourish.

I'm vacillating on Ade Jimoh.

Moving to already existing thread...

Who, besides the obvious retiring Ray Brown, needs to be purged from the roster for next season ?
Here's my early picks. I'm prepared to take a bunch of heat for them.
Robert Royal-Terribly incionsistant, questionable hands
David Patten-"Me Me Me...More Me"
Taylor Jacobs-The project is over.
Lavar Arrington-Needs a new environment to flourish.

Royal needs to go
I dont see Patten getting cut
Jacobs I think should go
Hopefully Lavar stays-we have enough holes to fill without having to find another starting lb
Hall and Frost both need to get cut
Jimoh and Harris both need to go or if they stay they need to have less of a role on defense
Warrick Holdman doesn't contribute much so I wouldnt mind seeing him get cut

No, you're right. Patten hasn't forgotten how to catch. What he has forgotten is something even more elementary...how to be a team mate. It seemed like, if you weren't asking him how the Patriots did it with him year in and year out, and didn't look his way first every play...he was slighted. When Moss took off, he really got the deer in the headlights look, didn't he ?
No, I want him gone. New attitude, or see ya.

...and I don't see the parallel between Lavar and "starting LB".
It's been quite a while since Lavar was an everyday starter.
How long do we live on the Penn State "Lavar Leap" ? How long do we live on the Aikman hit ? Jiminy Cricket ! The last big play, his INT...he fumbled it, and got away with it.
He's not inclined to redo his contract, if you believe what he's said recently. "Why would I ?", I recall reading him say.
We can't live on promises anymore. Lavar must go. We all love him for his charisma, his charm, his availability for autographs...
In my opinion, the signing of GW to a long term deal spelled the end of the Arrington Era in DC.
Not a moment too soon.

TC - I forgot about the attitude. He's been out of the lineup for so many weeks that I've forgotten that small tidbit. Yeah, in that case, a new attitude or a new zip code would be in order

...and I don't see the parallel between Lavar and "starting LB".
It's been quite a while since Lavar was an everyday starter.
How long do we live on the Penn State "Lavar Leap" ? How long do we live on the Aikman hit ? Jiminy Cricket ! The last big play, his INT...he fumbled it, and got away with it.
He's not inclined to redo his contract, if you believe what he's said recently. "Why would I ?", I recall reading him say.
We can't live on promises anymore. Lavar must go. We all love him for his charisma, his charm, his availability for autographs...
In my opinion, the signing of GW to a long term deal spelled the end of the Arrington Era in DC.
Not a moment too soon.

I think that he does in fact redo his contract and that he will still be here. Did you lsiten to his postgame interview yesterday?? He was apologetic for some of the comments that he has made recently and he said that his heart is with the Skins and that this is the only place that he wants to play. And Lavar has played very well since coming back in. When he was out the D was giving up huge runs to the right side every game. When he came back that stopped. And I don't think that I need to remind you how good of a game he had against the Bucs last week. 10 tackles, 1 int, 1 ff....yea he sucks. Not quite sure what fumbled int you are talking about.

thaiphoon wrote:

no, patten is worthless as a #2 option, we need another REAL WR. patten should probably be kept around as viable depth at the position though- look what happened today, we had to pull people out of the crowed and suit them up at WR. though if we save 2 million or so by cutting and we need that space to get another real WR, there's no question we should cut him.

Patten didn't forget how to catch my friend. Additionally, Patten has the speed and experience that DB's have to respect. This is why you saw Moss getting open for alot of yards this year before Patten went out. Outside of the Cowboys and Giants (who inexplicably left him in 1vs1 coverage) Moss didn't do as well without Patten in the lineup. Moss needs another speedy WR that will make opposing Defenses play honestly. I think Patten is fine to keep around. He's nto costing that much. But if we get someone better and just as fast then I'm all for putting Patten at #3. I don't disagrew with you about the WR depth though. We need better quality depth. This is why I stated that Jacobs has to go.

what catches did patten ever make? almost every time we threw him the ball, he stands there waiting for it to land in his hands, while the defender jumps up and knocks it away. he doesn't GO AFTER it. throwing to him is pretty much pointless unless he's wide, WIDE open where it can't be knocked away.

although perhaps if we are using a real NFL QB next year, he will be able to throw it far enough that patten won't have to stand there waiting for it while the defender catches up. so maybe he will be good with someone who can actually throw a decent pass further than 5 yard yards (obviously he did fine with brady).

...so long as the Pats were winning championships. Patten somehow came to beleive that it was all his doing...a belief which is in no way reinforced by today's results in Denver.

I can't say as I understand all this talk of Patten's bad attitude. The media blew up a couple of sound bytes on the guy, but what else is new? It wasn't anything scathing.

He had a disappointing season football-wise, but we weren't throwing him the ball enough when he was in there. He and Moss are so much alike in stature and forte, that I guess it's hard to see them both being effective in this offense together... well not without a big-bodied receiver to go along with them.

I will say that it's hard to believe how often David Patten is open... at camp... in pre-season... even in the games he played... the guy really has a knack for getting himself in the open. It has to be frustrating to not be getting the ball a lot. And that's all I think his 'reported' displeasure with his role in the offense was.

I know that when he went on IR, covering our wide receiver corps seemed to get a lot easier for our opposition.

Walt Harris and Matt Bowen are likely gone. They are both due to make around 2 million in base and that's too much for a backup safety and nickel back.

David Patten and Taylor Jacobs stay. At least through training camp. They both have very low cap figures. Somebody else will be brought in at wide receiver to compete and they will cary 5 not 4 on the roster next year. Jacobs never recovered form his dislocated big toe so I think he gets to training camp at least.

Lavar is gone unless he's willing to rework his contract and singning bonus to something like a $1 million bonus (instead of 6) and a base salary in 07 of 1 or 2 million.

I think we need a big (bigger?) WR but I also think that Patten stays. We need WRs and IMO he's going to be given another chance here.
I think we will find a way to let Arrington know he's wanted here and I think that he will make it happen.

I think we are going to have a very interesting offseason.

I was going to reply but I checked what BossHog said and I agree. Patten gets open. Did he drop a few balls? Sure he did. But the guy gets open. And when he was getting open our passing game worked very well. Defenses had to play both WR's honestly which opened up for Moss and ey.

I checked into Patten's salary, bonus and cap hit -- If my numbers are correct, we'll keep Patten one more year. I apolgize for not analyzing this before indicating that we'll cut him.

He's due to make $2.45 in 2006 with a bonus allocation for 2006 at 455K - cap hit of around $2.9 mil. If we cut him he'll cost us about the same amount in unallocated bonus.

If we get a legit #2, he'll be a very expensive #3.

first off, we are not gettin rid of Patten....He's still got some game left in him...I look for him to be the comeback player next year like mark brunell was this year....We are not goin to get rid of Walt Harris either......he had a pretty good year and stepped up when rogers and springs were hurt down the stretch....

Issues At Hand (It starts with our offense)

1. WR
Taylor Jacobs stays? As what #3? we need a solid #2 threat i.e. Reggie Wayne let Patten and another acquisition battle for #3, with James Thrash holding #4 and Jacobs maybe backing Thrash.

2. Offensive Line/Run Game
(get a LG, big TE or 2, and blocking FB)

Samuels needs to improve but he's back as LT that's where it gets shaky AT LG WE NEED AN ALL PRO and Raybach needs to bulk up but he stays as C , Cory Raymer should never be playing guard but that's what happens when you've started Ray Brown too many games Thomas locks down RG and of course we have one of the best RT's in the league that leaves a Big Strong TE and a Full Time Blocking back to tandem with Mike Sellers.

Our backfield is A ok.

3. Gibbs should allow Open Competition for Starting QB


And I think that does it for our offensive holes, Defense is lacking a DE, 2 CB's!

Antonio Brown has to go. Some punts have to be caught to save field postion and he couldn't figure that out.
David Patten will be back. If the Skin's add a big WR, Patten could become explosive in 3WR sets.
Lavar needs to restructure in order to stay. His cap hit will be to large for 1 player if he doesn't. The problem is I thought I heard an interview where somebody said he didn't plan on renegotiating. I hope he changes his mind.

Where's the cap money going to come from to sign all of these players that some of you want to sign?

... just curious.

fredp45 wrote:We had a super year -- I can't wait for free agency, the draft and preseason to begin. To that end, I've gotten over our loss and figured it's time to begin the fun of figuring out what our 2006 team will look like.

I'll start by identifying some players I don't see being on the team next year. In some cases, I'd rather keep them but for various reasons, they'll be gone:

Ray Brown
LeVar Arrington
Patrick Ramsey
Cory Raymer
Matt Bowen
John Hall
Walt Harris
Brandon Noble
David Patten

Of course, there will be others gone too, but they're deep on the depth chart anyway.

What do others think?

2ndary needs help. Ryan Clark is no good. Walt Harris, bye-bye, Peirson Prelou?? special teams only, Amade Joe? can't get it done.

If we cut lavar, then who starts at weakside linebacker? Are we excited about the prospect of warrick holdman holding down that side again? I'll tell you what, I am not.

Getting rid of lavar is fine, if it genuinely makes the team better. If you release him for the cap room, then you're going to have to spend some of it on getting a linebacker who can hold up in the system. Linebackers are after all, pretty important in Williams' system.

We took a big hit with coles, but we got santana moss back. That kind of thing we can handle, because it gave us a young, devastating receiver threat for awhile. But, unless McCune gets moved to the outside and flourishes, I don't know if we have a starting weakside linebacker.

In the end, I hope they work it out. To me, Lavar looked like he played better towards the end of the year (i know, i know, offsides penalty, etc), and i think that sometimes, you just have to deal with your mistakes---the skins made mistakes a long time ago, like signing people to huge deals based on popularity...well, now we're stuck with it, and it's best to just figure out how to make it work...

as for everyone else on the list, they can go...i used to think that patten was pretty worthless, and i still think he's not great, but i just can't buy that over 18 games, only two guys got open with any regularity...to me, that has to be put at the feet of the qb...of course, i'm not at the games and you can't see it on tv, but that just strikes me as very odd...

after reading all of these posts, many of you have talked about what a great player LaVar is, and I just dont think thats a true statement anymore, he looked in creadibly slow yesterday. If he does not seriously restructure his contract, then I say we cut him, move Marshall back to outside LB, and put McCune in the middle, the guy is huge.

Patten will stay.
Robert Royal will stay.
Jimoh will stay-hes a beast on special teams.
Walt Harris will stay as a nickel and I hope nothing more.

Bowen is gone.
Noble-gone.
Betts may be gone because his contract is up and he has proved that he can do well and teams needing a solid back will probably go after him, and rock has proved he can be a very solid back-to to CP.

As far as Raymer, i think he will stay, Gibbs seams to like him and he is very cheap, so why let him go?

Im looking at the roster, and we have a few d-limemen that will probably go.

I hardly see why we need an all-pro LG, I think Dockery has done fine.
I hope Jimmy Farris sticks around, seems like he works hard.

Sorry if this post is a little unclear/unorganized, but there are so many factors going into next years roster it easily becomes confusing, at least for me it does...

Anyone paying attention to Saturday's game knows that Brandon Noble is going NO WHERE! Not only was he at the game, unlike some players on injured reserve, he was wearing what appeared to me to be a coaches uniform on the sidelines. (Note he was also carrying a clip board!) This coaching staff likes Brandon and for good reason. If he is able to return he will. And if he is physically unable to perform he will still stay in another aspect to help the team.

I realize not all of you are as fond of Noble as I am. I actually watch what is going on during the game/ sidelines and otherwise and that's how I spotted him.

I'll say it one more time in regards to this entire topic. I'm not nearly educated enough to dissect the salary cap situation so because of that and my unwavering faith in our coaching staff, I will not speculate who will be gone and who will remain, or even who we will sign. Our coaches are fully capable of filling positions and making the right decisions. I've learned from my few years as a die hard fan that they will do what is right and we will again be on top next year.