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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:01 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
1fan4ramsey wrote:He's NEVER been given a chance in a legitimate NFL offense, this was his only real chance, all 26 snaps.
So....ugh...
...what are you going to do about your username?
Are you going to defect? Or become 1fan4brunell?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:02 pm
by 1fan4ramsey
BringThePain! wrote:1fan4ramsey wrote:He's NEVER been given a chance in a legitimate NFL offense, this was his only real chance, all 26 snaps.
right... we'll just throw the other 33 games out the window..
Yeah, like last year, o.k. Patrick you can start now, by the way, you've got the Steelers, and Eagles twice in four weeks, make sure your chin strap is tight...please
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:17 pm
by BringThePain!
1fan4ramsey wrote:BringThePain! wrote:1fan4ramsey wrote:He's NEVER been given a chance in a legitimate NFL offense, this was his only real chance, all 26 snaps.
right... we'll just throw the other 33 games out the window..
Yeah, like last year, o.k. Patrick you can start now, by the way, you've got the Steelers, and Eagles twice in four weeks, make sure your chin strap is tight...please
So it's not a real chance unless you play easy teams?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:18 pm
by ComebackSkins
ramsey played harder defenses last year and we stayed competitive with him at the helm.
I still dont think brunnel can get it done. Plus he is so small and more injury prone than ramsey is. Ramsey survived spurrier's lack of a blocking scheme for crying out loud.
I just dont see how you guys think brunnel has changed so much. You are the same people that were trashing him.
There was no legitimate reason to start brunnel over ramsey from what weve seen. He needed at least two more games to demonstrate what he could or could not do.
ah...im tired of this crap...I wish ramsey the best. Lets hope for a W on monday.
go skins!!!
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:20 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
ComebackSkins wrote:I still dont think brunnel can get it done. Plus he is so small and more injury prone than ramsey is. Ramsey survived spurrier's lack of a blocking scheme for crying out loud.
Ramsey standing there like a statue is what got him hurt. I doubt Brunell would have been there to get hit like Ramsey. Im sorry but Ramsey has NO pocket prescence at all!
ComebackSkins wrote:I just dont see how you guys think brunnel has changed so much. You are the same people that were trashing him.
Did you just become a skins fan yesterday? Have you not watched the preseaon games?
ComebackSkins wrote:There was no legitimate reason to start brunnel over ramsey from what weve seen. He needed at least two more games to demonstrate what he could or could not do.
We've seen what Ramsey can do. Have you?
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:31 pm
by ComebackSkins
no i didnt just become a skins fan...I watched brunnel excel against backups with some second string recievers at times...but for the most part i remember the first team O-line was in there to help him.
and I dont see how you can see what ramsey can do in 1 quater of football. Thats ridiculous. He was stating to pick it up for us in that game.
youre not the ultimate authority on the skins. I am allowed to disagree with anyone. Including Gibbs.
you can go ahead and praise every single thing he does. And i love gibbs. I just think this was the wrong move for our offense.
I hope I have to eat my words though...I'de hate to lose many games and be proven right.
but forget this crap. Whats done is done. I will cheer for whatever redskin players are on the field.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:33 pm
by blchizzleke
I just feel as though this is not a type a game heading into where you still have uncertainty as to who will play the game. I know Brunell is the starter, but who realistically expects him to start the other 14 games on the schedule for us. This game against the Cowboys has a playoff atmosphere. Yes that is how urgent we are to get our quarterback situation solved. If we lose, our whole season may end up in a downward spiral like last year. But if we win this game we have a legit chance to make the playoffs, assuming the quarterback play remains consistent.
On that note, I wonder, since Ramsey wants to be traded, if that when he gets into the game, he will actually give it 100%. Think about it. This franchise has been trying to push him out the door the entire time he has been here. He probably feels as though we haven't done anything for him lately (if ever), so why should he do anything for us. I fear this, but do not expect this, to happen.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:01 am
by die cowboys die
redskins56 wrote:It's one thing to say that Brunell should start because he makes less mistakes, or for the simple fact that he, unlike Patrick Ramsey, is Joe Gibbs' boy, but don't say that Brunell has outplayed him.
Scratch that. Say whatever you want, that's why we're all here, but ther's not a way to back that up.
The only football we can base our analysis off of is last year, the preseason, and Sunday.
The preseason is an unfair meter in that Ramsey played NFL starters, not to mention four of the league's top 15 defenses, and Brunell played against backups. I'll come back to that though. I know for a fact you don't want me to hold your hand and bring you back to what happened last year. That'll go ugly as soon as I point out his god-awful numbers and you counter with, "But he was hurt and now he's better." So we'll stay away from that. The numbers speak for themselves, look at them.
Firstly, the preseason---
The closest thing to a dress rehearsal came in week three, a win over the Steelers. Ramsey was one poor ball away from being flawless, that poor ball of course resulted in a Steelers scrore. It was later professed by James Thrash that he didn't make the right bailout read, and that he, not Ramsey should be faulted. Nonetheless, people like you see an interception and automatically fault the player who threw it, not taking into effect the many variables that go into each play.
Last season---
Ramsey won three of his final five starts, and it would have been four if not for a defensive breakdown in Dallas. I'm sorry Ramsey didn't do a better job making sure the secondary didn't give up a final minute score. If the defense holds as they did all year long, Ramsey is 4-1 in his last 5 games, one of those wins coming in the form of a 19-22, three touchdown performance. The lone loss to the hands of the conference champion Eagles, allbeit by just three points, and the ball in field goal range in the closing moments.
Those are the two chapters we have to look at in analyzing Ramsey. That brings us to Sunday, when Ramsey's final drive tallied 80yards on 8-plays, the ninth, a TD pass to Chris
ey called back on a questionable pushoff. To fault the guy for fumbling when he almost died his silly. He threw a bad ball, it got picked off, and didn't end up leading to any points. He forgot about it, so did his receivers, and it showed as he went for over 100 yards on his next 5 completions.
hallelujiah! a shimmering beacon of reason! you are dead on, redskins56.
as for this nonsense about ramsey "proving he is no good" during his redskins tenure, wow, how can everyone's memory possibly be so short? the fact is, ramsey has not won a whole ton of games. the other side of that fact is, ramsey has been on a TERRIBLE football team during most of his starts-- often to the extent of being one of few bright spots (2003). it's hard to make a lot of great throws and avoid any mistakes when you are getting pancaked every time you drop back (spurrier). for anyone to say that this is an "excuse" is impossibly dismissive.
no, the fact is, while ramsey certainly hasn't been a great QB while he's been here, he has been a lot more positive than negative. what in the CRAP are you people thinking about when your brains scan back to last season? don't you recall how much better the team became once he became the starter??? don't you remember how he played well against some really darn tough defenses??? in all his starts, he really only gave up ONE really bad INT (against the eagles). i seem to recall peyton manning hoisting up a few picks vs. NE the past 2 years in the playoffs. not comparing ramsey to manning, just saying, even the BEST QBs throw an occaisional really bad INT.
i give up, it is impossible trying to reason with people who zeroing in on a couple meaningless preseason games so much they completely forget everything that just happened the year before.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:08 am
by 1niksder
blchizzleke wrote:I just feel as though this is not a type a game heading into where you still have uncertainty as to who will play the game. I know Brunell is the starter, but who realistically expects him to start the other 14 games on the schedule for us. This game against the Cowboys has a playoff atmosphere. Yes that is how urgent we are to get our quarterback situation solved. If we lose, our whole season may end up in a downward spiral like last year. But if we win this game we have a legit chance to make the playoffs, assuming the quarterback play remains consistent.
I don't expect to see a revolving door at QB like it was with S.O.S. Brunell knows the score with that team in Texas and knows it will go a long way in quelling this little Patrick/Mark firestorm.
blchizzleke wrote:On that note, I wonder, since Ramsey wants to be traded, if that when he gets into the game, he will actually give it 100%. Think about it. This franchise has been trying to push him out the door the entire time he has been here. He probably feels as though we haven't done anything for him lately (if ever), so why should he do anything for us. I fear this, but do not expect this, to happen.
If he wants to be traded someone will have to want him. Any suitors will look at how he handles this
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:15 am
by hailskins666
as for this nonsense about ramsey "proving he is no good" during his redskins tenure, wow, how can everyone's memory possibly be so short?
its not short, it took 24 games to get here.
the fact is, ramsey has not won a whole ton of games.
:hmm: say that again, what is his starting record??
the other side of that fact is, ramsey has been on a TERRIBLE football team during most of his starts-- often to the extent of being one of few bright spots
isn't that what the truly good 1st round qb's do? make the team that drafted them better? what about manning? colts sucked until his third season or so. what about the iggles? mcnabb showed up after a couple seasons. ooh, ooh, what about atlanta? vick made them better in two seasons.
then there are the teams that are in complete denial. akili smith? 4 years to help the bengals didn't help much. tim couch? was a couch. ryan leaf, got his chance as well.
point being, if a 1st rounder takes as long or more than his first contract to make a difference, he probably won't in todays nfl.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:42 am
by die cowboys die
hailskins666 wrote:isn't that what the truly good 1st round qb's do? make the team that drafted them better? what about manning? colts sucked until his third season or so. what about the iggles? mcnabb showed up after a couple seasons. ooh, ooh, what about atlanta? vick made them better in two seasons.
your comparisons are so far off-base it's hard to believe you are being serious. every one of those QBs you mentioned had the full support of his coaching staff, and became the continual starter from whatever point they were declared as such. they weren't yanked in and out over the course of 4 seasons, like ramsey.
what's more, every one of them except michael vick had the benefit of having the SAME head coach for their 1st 4 years in the league.
but perhaps most importantly, every single one of them began their careers and have continued to play ONLY for coaches that have proven they can be successful on the NFL level (Reid was not proven when he drafted mcnabb, but has obviously established himself since then. jim mora jr took the falcons to the championship game in his 1st year... so far so good!).
patrick ramsey began his career under steve spurrier, who proved himself to be staggeringly incompetent as an NFL coach. you can't tell me that won't stunt your development, compared to being taught by Reid or any REAL coach. that is obvious. then the crappy coach gets fired, they bring in a real coach, and he understandably wants to bring in "his" guys. no, mora jr did not want to replace vick in atlanta- but remember, despite being fired, dan reeves was a legitimate NFL coach who had a lot of success in the league, unlike spurrier.
it is a strong, strong likelihood that if ramsey had had a real NFL coach from the get-go, there wouldn't be any QB issues in washington right now.
Re: Root For Patrick!
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:16 am
by ike075
Clinton Portis wrote:Root for him to get back in!
He will get his chance this year!
Mark will prove inefficient again, and Ramsey will save the day.
GO RAMSEY!
I am going to go out on a limb here.
Lets root for the Redskins to win and go all the way no matter who plays in the games.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:38 am
by thaiphoon
isn't that what the truly good 1st round qb's do? make the team that drafted them better? what about manning? colts sucked until his third season or so. what about the iggles? mcnabb showed up after a couple seasons. ooh, ooh, what about atlanta? vick made them better in two seasons.
And Ramsey has started 24 games and played in about 30. That's a little short of two seasons. Wonder where the Colts would be if they benched Manning right before his third season. Or Atlanta? Or Green Bay (Ramseys numbers of 24 starts in 30 games played look awfully close to those of Brett Favre after 2 full seasons of starting).
then there are the teams that are in complete denial. akili smith? 4 years to help the bengals didn't help much. tim couch? was a couch. ryan leaf, got his chance as well.
Each had more than 2 years of starting to prove himself if I recall correctly. Ramsey hasn't. He has started 24 games. Period.
point being, if a 1st rounder takes as long or more than his first contract to make a difference, he probably won't in todays nfl.
If that 1rst rounder starts all thsoe gsmes. Maybe... then if that first rounder has the confidence of his coach and the SAME coach during that first contract then it makes things better for him as well. There are always goign to be those future hall of famers that could win with guys like us block and catching for them (i.e. - Manning, Marino, Namath, Montana). But then there are guys who are good QB's who can win but take a bit more to get to that point. Ramsey is most likely one of these QB's. Doesn't mean he sucks. Doesn't mean he's goign to Canton either. Just means that after 24 games of starting he's not that far off where some of the current "best" QB's were.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:05 am
by hailskins666
why is everyone who wants ramsey on the 24 game start thing? he's still a FOUR year vet. he's not a rookie. but he makes rookie mistakes. thats the only point i'm trying to get at. he hasn't progressed as he should if he was going to be the future of this team. its very apparent. and its time to do the laundry. gibbs did. i just wish it was campell in there so we could get on with the learning curve.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:09 am
by joebagadonuts
but you have to admit, there's a different learning curve for playing every game versus holding a clipboard.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:30 am
by hailskins666
joebagadonuts wrote:but you have to admit, there's a different learning curve for playing every game versus holding a clipboard.
but when is it time to draw the line? excuses or performance? put up or shut up?
for me, about halfway through the first quarter, i just saw it for what it is. i really can't explain why the sudden change of heart. i've always supported ramsey. i was at the bengals game chanting 'ramsey' last year. but something about the way the team looked.... i had heard some rumors that the line doesn't like ramsey in because he doesn't give em much to work with in terms of feeling the rush coming and trying to move the pocket. in fact id say 99% of the time, if ramsey is moving, it's because the play is a designed rollout.
then theres the mistakes. he does throw ints at the worst time usually. i guess thats why i was rooting for him. i thought that was fixable. maybe it is, but we don't have time for it anymore. then theres the fumbles. most of the time, its because he just got pummeled by a rusher. like the hit sunday. you can argue that it wasn't his fault, that anybody would have dropped that ball. but i will say this, brunell wouldn't have been standing still to take that hit.
ramsey is tough as nails. but he has to be. he doesn't give himself any breaks. something just clicked in my mind watching our first quarter of real football. you could see it in gibbs' face. something was bothering him other than the stress of the game. turns out that something was ramsey.
too bad. he's a class act. stand up type of guy. i have nothing but positives to say about his off field behavior. maybe thats why everyone was rooting for him, because he's such a likeable guy. but, i can't sit here and lie to myself any longer. he isn't showing any strides in the right direction, imo. no more excuses. i wish him the best where ever he may end up. the redskins have football games to win.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:38 am
by REDEEMEDSKIN
Chris Luva Luva wrote:1fan4ramsey wrote:He's NEVER been given a chance in a legitimate NFL offense, this was his only real chance, all 26 snaps.
So....ugh...
...what are you going to do about your username?
Are you going to defect? Or become 1fan4brunell?
<----------------------------- Umm...the #11 guy in my avatar is really...um....Ryp. Um....yeah... Mark Rypien. 
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:38 am
by sch1977
Lets face it, this is Jason Campbell's team now. Brunell will play until Campbell is ready to step in. Ramsey has all the tools, but he makes too many mental mistakes. He is not a good fit in this offense, that is why he is on the bench. Teams like the Colts and Beagles had a recent tradition of losing, that is why they could afford to leave Manning and McNabb in the game all the time. Our franchise is not accustomed to losing, and Gibbs wants to turn it around NOW!
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:43 am
by joebagadonuts
hailskins666 wrote:but when is it time to draw the line? excuses or performance? put up or shut up?
i dunno. i guess that's why gibbs is coaching the skins and i'm in maine cleaning port-o-potties. personally, i would have liked to have given ramsey a couple more games to prove that he really doesn't have it. i know all about the preseason games, but i would have like to see him play at least 12 quarters of real football and prove to me that he can or cannot do it.
but i guess gibbs felt for some reason that he has more coaching experience that i do, and he can make that decision more quickly. sheesh, it's like the guy thinks he's in the hall of fame or something.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:54 am
by DEHog
ramsey is tough as nails. but he has to be. he doesn't give himself any breaks. something just clicked in my mind watching our first quarter of real football. you could see it in gibbs' face. something was bothering him other than the stress of the game. turns out that something was ramsey.
This is really it and I think truth be told Gibbs wanted to do it back in June after seeing the same Ramsey he saw in his first mini-camp. Gibbs might have been a little guilty of trying to please others last year. This year it's plain to see he focus on one thing winning! Will be interesting to see his chat tomorrow.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:50 am
by Jake
I'll be rooting for anyone in burgundy and gold.
I was hoping Patrick would get more than a quarter to prove himself because, aside from 2003 and even then he got hurt for a portion of the season, he has never had a fair chance to prove himself.
I was kind of excited/relieved to find out Patrick was benched but I was hoping we'd give him some more playing time.
I do like having Brunell in there this year, though. He is way more mobile and looks a lot better after recovering from his hamstring injury. Brunell has great command when he is in, proved by his loud cadences. The offense so far this season has seemed to perform better with Brunell at the helm.
is it just me or is Ramsey getting the shaft?
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:29 pm
by fan4life28
first off i'd just like to say hey. I've been a big fan of thehogs.net for awhile, and read it regularly. And as far as i can tell, this is the most intelligent group of skins fans on the net.
Second, isn't Gibbs kinda hypocritical here. you know, about letting everyone have a fair chance. Don't get me wrong, I think Gibbs is a great coach, and i love the guy. But the way he's demoted Ramsey so quickly seems a little unfair.
Thoughts?
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:31 pm
by aswas71788
Mike Wise's column says it all!!
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:34 pm
by ejay183
I feel the same way.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:35 pm
by BringThePain!
merging with one of the other threads on this...
welcome to the boards..