The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

What is plan B if Brunell stinks again?

Patrick Ramsey!

Joe will not throw Jason Campbell to the wolves this early. I do not care what T. Bradshaw says.

besides my unshakable desire to see the skins be successful, i'm worried about what happens if brunell fails again. then ramsey comes in again, and voila, instant laughing stock. usually i wouldn't mind having people laugh at me, i'm kind of used to it, but i'm tired of these seasons that turn into jokes.

Brunell will be just fine. He looked great in preseason is at his age is still more mobile than Ramsey, and we will need a mobile quaterback against the speedy Dallas D.
Lets not forget that Brunell was hurt last year. He has alot more zip on his ball but my only worry is arm strength on the deep throw downfield.
I hope he gives Ramsey another chance in a couple of weeks to see if he learns his lessons on turning the ball over and pocket presence.
Lets face it, the running game and defense are going to win games for us, and is there anything wrong with that?
Ask Baltimore if they minded when they won their super bowl.

Since viewing this post I have made two personal assesments...

1) Indeed, there is a good chance that Gibbs benched Ramsey because he was being way to forceful with trying to make things happen, which as everyone on here has seen led to turnovers.

2) Patrick Ramsey is not being punished by Gibbs. He's done. Jason Cambell is the QB of the future, or dare I say, maybe even come Week 5 or 6.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I do not care what T. Bradshaw says.

That should pretty much be a law

Young QBs on poor teams throw a lot of INTs and Ramsey has thrown much less than the norm![/quote]

Yes...but I think most would agree that we are not a poor team (right now), except for the quarterback position.

you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed. Our line gave him plenty of time in the preseason and he still couldnt get a lot of throws to our receivers accurately. You cant have someone that is shaky during every snap. That leads to mistakes. All we have to do now is get the ball downfield a few times to get our opponets to stop stacking the box with 8 guys.

Ramsey shouldn't be benched,
He should be gotten rid of. He's no good.

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed.

this is patently untrue. i have the game on tape, i've watched it 3 times. the only time ramsey didn't look assured and comfortable in the pocket was the one play in which he was getting smashed in the neck 1/8th of a second after he got the snap.

ramsey has in the past been guilty of "happy feet" and looking shaky back there. but not in the bears game.

Thanks for the welcome. Living in Korea as a Redskins fan is pretty tough. I have not met any other Redskins fans here. I cannot get the games on TV. If I listen by internet radio, I have to stay up all night Sunday. While living on the other side of the world has its downside, the upside is that thanks to the internet I have found this site.

A couple of follow up comments: I do not think it is a matter of "punishing" Ramsey. I think that's reading too much into it. I think it's simply a matter that Gibbs does not feel that he and Ramsey are on the same page. Until they are on the same page, Ramsey should not be the starter. As with anything in life, if you want to be successful, you have to have confidence in what you are doing. For a football coach, that means having confidence that your quarterback can follow the game plan and make intelligent decisions.

As to who is "the guy" -- I agree that from day 1 Gibbs has had reservations about Ramsey. But I think it is because of his decision making and not his physical ability. Gibbs has said that he hopes Ramsey can be the guy to lead this team to the Superbowl. What I read into that comment is that Ramsey needs to become a quarterback who makes smart decisions and listens to the coaches. Yet in the first quarter against the Bears he showed the same tendencies that caused Gibbs to doubt him in the first place. He was designated the starter, had months to prepare, plenty of opportunities to get mentally focused, but when the whistle blew, it was back to the same problems as before. He hasn't changed his bad habits.

Personally I think Ramsey will be traded if the Redskins receive a decent offer.

I wonder what the players think of the situation.

Snout wrote:After watching the press conference and listening to Gibbs's explanation in his own words, I have changed my mind. Ramsey should sit.

Two words changed my mind. When reclling the development of Mark Rypien, Gibbs mentioned at at one point he felt like he wasn't "getting through" to Ryp about turning the ball over, so he benched him. If Coach feels like his message is not "getting through" to Ramsey, then Ramsey should sit. Even if he is the best quarterback we have at the moment. Even if we all have zero confidence Brunell's physical ability.

I am 100% convinced that Ramsey would still be starting if he understood Coach's lectures about the importance of not turning the ball over and not holding the ball too long. Even if it were three and out every time. Even if he lost every game.

Gibbs believes Ramsey is not listening.

The problem during all of the years of mediocrity during the Turner and Spurrier years is that these coaches let talented players play through mental lapses and sloppiness.

I am convinced that if we are going to return to greatness, the first step is to get mentally focused. The Coach has to have confidence that the team's leader is mentally focused, disciplined, and listening to instructions. If the most talented player is not willing to do that, he should be benched in favor of less talented player who is mentally in the game.

The bottom line is that this team is going nowhere if the coach believes he is not "getting through" to his starting quarterback.

Yeah great, but the problem is the way it was handled, Ramsey is now done as a Redskin, you can't ask him to come in now and bail out the team after Brunell loses the next 3 games.

1fan4ramsey wrote:Yeah great, but the problem is the way it was handled, Ramsey is now done as a Redskin, you can't ask him to come in now and bail out the team after Brunell loses the next 3 games.

Well if he wouldn't be willing to step in and reclaim what you think is his job why would you root for him.

I on the other hand think if and WHEN Patrick is called apon he'll get the job done but not if he has to go in with in the next 3 weeks

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed. Our line gave him plenty of time in the preseason and he still couldnt get a lot of throws to our receivers accurately. You cant have someone that is shaky during every snap. That leads to mistakes. All we have to do now is get the ball downfield a few times to get our opponets to stop stacking the box with 8 guys.

Try this perspective, McNabb looked like more of a mess on Monday night than Ramsey ever has, are the Eagles jumping to bench him in favor of Detmer? If or coaches were in Philly this might happen; then we could all laugh at them like the rest of the NFL is laughing at us right now.

1fan4ramsey wrote:

Snout wrote:After watching the press conference and listening to Gibbs's explanation in his own words, I have changed my mind. Ramsey should sit.

Two words changed my mind. When reclling the development of Mark Rypien, Gibbs mentioned at at one point he felt like he wasn't "getting through" to Ryp about turning the ball over, so he benched him. If Coach feels like his message is not "getting through" to Ramsey, then Ramsey should sit. Even if he is the best quarterback we have at the moment. Even if we all have zero confidence Brunell's physical ability.

I am 100% convinced that Ramsey would still be starting if he understood Coach's lectures about the importance of not turning the ball over and not holding the ball too long. Even if it were three and out every time. Even if he lost every game.

Gibbs believes Ramsey is not listening.

The problem during all of the years of mediocrity during the Turner and Spurrier years is that these coaches let talented players play through mental lapses and sloppiness.

I am convinced that if we are going to return to greatness, the first step is to get mentally focused. The Coach has to have confidence that the team's leader is mentally focused, disciplined, and listening to instructions. If the most talented player is not willing to do that, he should be benched in favor of less talented player who is mentally in the game.

The bottom line is that this team is going nowhere if the coach believes he is not "getting through" to his starting quarterback.

Yeah great, but the problem is the way it was handled, Ramsey is now done as a Redskin, you can't ask him to come in now and bail out the team after Brunell loses the next 3 games.

They can if he wants to get paid

1fan4ramsey wrote:

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed. Our line gave him plenty of time in the preseason and he still couldnt get a lot of throws to our receivers accurately. You cant have someone that is shaky during every snap. That leads to mistakes. All we have to do now is get the ball downfield a few times to get our opponets to stop stacking the box with 8 guys.

Try this perspective, McNabb looked like more of a mess on Monday night than Ramsey ever has, are the Eagles jumping to bench him in favor of Detmer? If or coaches were in Philly this might happen; then we could all laugh at them like the rest of the NFL is laughing at us right now.

Try this perspective. Has Ramsey EVER resembled McNabb? No. The difference in the two is simple. McNabb is a great QB who has an occasional bad game, as all players do, but Ramsey is always turning the ball over, and constantly over throwing open receivers.

sch1977 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed. Our line gave him plenty of time in the preseason and he still couldnt get a lot of throws to our receivers accurately. You cant have someone that is shaky during every snap. That leads to mistakes. All we have to do now is get the ball downfield a few times to get our opponets to stop stacking the box with 8 guys.

Try this perspective, McNabb looked like more of a mess on Monday night than Ramsey ever has, are the Eagles jumping to bench him in favor of Detmer? If or coaches were in Philly this might happen; then we could all laugh at them like the rest of the NFL is laughing at us right now.

Try this perspective. Has Ramsey EVER resembled McNabb? No. The difference in the two is simple. McNabb is a great QB who has an occasional bad game, as all players do, but Ramsey is always turning the ball over, and constantly over throwing open receivers.

Im sorry for laughing but what the man said is true.

This isb't some little league where we're trying to teach kids lessons on listening. Whoever gets the job done best should play. Peoples jobs depend on how well the job gets done. I don't care if Ramsey throw 50 interceptions as long as he throws for 50 TD's along with it and wins the game. Winning is what matters not the coaches pride

TopHawg wrote:This isb't some little league where we're trying to teach kids lessons on listening. Whoever gets the job done best should play. Peoples jobs depend on how well the job gets done. I don't care if Ramsey throw 50 interceptions as long as he throws for 50 TD's along with it and wins the game. Winning is what matters not the coaches pride

Thats just it, Ramsey hasnt been winning!

Thats just it, Ramsey hasnt been winning!

Neither has Brunell (at least not in a Redskins jersey) or any other Redskins QB for the past decade (except maybe one year with Brad Johnson). Very few QB's can win a game for you all by themselves. But alot of good and really good QB's will win consistently for you if the other players on offense do their jobs correctly and the coach has the right gameplan.

die cowboys die wrote:

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed.

this is patently untrue. i have the game on tape, i've watched it 3 times. the only time ramsey didn't look assured and comfortable in the pocket was the one play in which he was getting smashed in the neck 1/8th of a second after he got the snap.

ramsey has in the past been guilty of "happy feet" and looking shaky back there. but not in the bears game.

Well I hope we couldnt find 10,000 things wrong he only had the ball for what 2 series. In that series we already had a pic and a fumble! Im not even talking about our opening game I am talking about preseason. He looks like elvis in the pocket when he doesnt need to. Our o line gives any qb plenty of time. If you cant atleast look calm aftera few years in the league then we have some issues.

skins#1fan wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:

skins#1fan wrote:you guys sugarcoat the issue...The bottom line is that Ramsey looks like a mess in the pocket. He cant stay composed.

this is patently untrue. i have the game on tape, i've watched it 3 times. the only time ramsey didn't look assured and comfortable in the pocket was the one play in which he was getting smashed in the neck 1/8th of a second after he got the snap.

ramsey has in the past been guilty of "happy feet" and looking shaky back there. but not in the bears game.

Well I hope we couldnt find 10,000 things wrong he only had the ball for what 2 series. In that series we already had a pic and a fumble! Im not even talking about our opening game I am talking about preseason. He looks like elvis in the pocket when he doesnt need to. Our o line gives any qb plenty of time. If you cant atleast look calm aftera few years in the league then we have some issues.

I don't care if he looks like Richard Simmons in the pocket as long as he get the ball to the guys that are paid to catch it.

I will watch every second of every game this year, but now the guy that gives us the best chance of winning is not in the game.

Gentleman:

Ramsey is inconsistent. We are going into Dallas, which has a chip on their shoulders, it is in their house, and they are always up for this game! Simply stated, we need the best QB available that gives us the best chance of winning, which is Brunell.

I believe the JG is also trying to teach PR a lesson, and, if he is truly an NFl caliber QB, he will grasp it and come back stronger. If not, then he is not, nor will he ever be, a true NFL starting QB...Period!

I am not happy about the way this was handled, and I don't know what JG saw that caused him to yank him out so fast, but I trust he has his reasons.

BigPig wrote:Ramsey is inconsistent. We are going into Dallas, which has a chip on their shoulders, it is in their house, and they are always up for this game! Simply stated, we need the best QB available that gives us the best chance of winning, which is Brunell.

I agree with all of this

BigPig wrote:I believe the JG is also trying to teach PR a lesson, and, if he is truly an NFl caliber QB, he will grasp it and come back stronger. If not, then he is not, nor will he ever be, a true NFL starting QB...Period!

Some team will overlook the turnovers and give him a shot, if he doesn't learn. Most Super bowl winning QBs for the Redskins spent a season or 2 on the sidelines with Gibbs

BigPig wrote:I am not happy about the way this was handled,

How else could it have been handled?
I can answer that, though I wanted Ramsey as our starter I have no problem with a coach making a QB change considering that's what he's paid to do when needed.

BigPig wrote:and I don't know what JG saw that caused him to yank him out so fast, but I trust he has his reasons

I keep hearing this phrase thrown around but it's false.
These are the facts in semi-chronicalogical order for those of you that happen to be smarter than Mr. Gibbs
1. Gibbs signed grabbed CP and Brunell while dumping Champ
1a. There were mixed reactions (this will happen throughout this list so I won't bother listing it again)2. Gibbs said the Job was up for grabs (insert 1a. here)
3. In the end it was Brunell, Ramsey and Hasselbeck
4. Brunell played, Ramsey watched ( by week 3 1a. was running amuck
5. After 9 Games Brunell was pulled
6. Just like when he was named the starter no one complained
7. Ramsey was inserted as the starter for the rest of the season (7 Games of no preasure of losing the job)
8. Gibbs said there would be no competition for the starting spot before the season ended (5 months of off-season workouts and OTA - again no preasure from his backup)
9. Ramsey went into the preseason as the starter. After game one 1a. reapeared (this time praising Mark and wondering if Gibbs would stay with Patrick....I think this is totally opposite of what 1a. once stood for so I'll call it 1b.
10. Ramsey started every preseason game and 1b. grew legs.
11. Ramsey started game 1 of the regular season and was Par for the course (he averaged a pick a game during the PS), tossed in a couple of fumbles(1 lost) and got yoked because he stands in the pocket late a Drew Bledsoe.
12. Brunell has reclaimed the spot he won last preseason.
13. Somebody called Gibbs a liar and 1a. reappeared and declared war on 1b.

The truth is Ramsey had 7 games last year and only left us praying he would eliminate his mistakes Then he got 4 preseason games with the starters that confused half the people that root for the team.
Gibbs should have told Ramsey that he wasn't going to be the starter is the main beef I hear. OK... Why Ramsey didn't perform with no preasure on him to do so what makes anyone think he would have done better knowing his job was on the line. (see #2 then #3 above). Gibbs gave Ramsey ever chance to excel and he didn't (I won't say he can't because I think he can) Playing that team in Texas on next Monday night on national TV tells me we should be talking about other things but we arn't

1niksder wrote:

BigPig wrote:Ramsey is inconsistent. We are going into Dallas, which has a chip on their shoulders, it is in their house, and they are always up for this game! Simply stated, we need the best QB available that gives us the best chance of winning, which is Brunell.

I agree with all of this

BigPig wrote:I believe the JG is also trying to teach PR a lesson, and, if he is truly an NFl caliber QB, he will grasp it and come back stronger. If not, then he is not, nor will he ever be, a true NFL starting QB...Period!

Some team will overlook the turnovers and give him a shot, if he doesn't learn. Most Super bowl winning QBs for the Redskins spent a season or 2 on the sidelines with Gibbs

BigPig wrote:I am not happy about the way this was handled,

How else could it have been handled?
I can answer that, though I wanted Ramsey as our starter I have no problem with a coach making a QB change considering that's what he's paid to do when needed.

BigPig wrote:and I don't know what JG saw that caused him to yank him out so fast, but I trust he has his reasons

I keep hearing this phrase thrown around but it's false.
These are the facts in semi-chronicalogical order for those of you that happen to be smarter than Mr. Gibbs
1. Gibbs signed grabbed CP and Brunell while dumping Champ
1a. There were mixed reactions (this will happen throughout this list so I won't bother listing it again)2. Gibbs said the Job was up for grabs (insert 1a. here)
3. In the end it was Brunell, Ramsey and Hasselbeck
4. Brunell played, Ramsey watched ( by week 3 1a. was running amuck
5. After 9 Games Brunell was pulled
6. Just like when he was named the starter no one complained
7. Ramsey was inserted as the starter for the rest of the season (7 Games of no preasure of losing the job)
8. Gibbs said there would be no competition for the starting spot before the season ended (5 months of off-season workouts and OTA - again no preasure from his backup)
9. Ramsey went into the preseason as the starter. After game one 1a. reapeared (this time praising Mark and wondering if Gibbs would stay with Patrick....I think this is totally opposite of what 1a. once stood for so I'll call it 1b.
10. Ramsey started every preseason game and 1b. grew legs.
11. Ramsey started game 1 of the regular season and was Par for the course (he averaged a pick a game during the PS), tossed in a couple of fumbles(1 lost) and got yoked because he stands in the pocket late a Drew Bledsoe.
12. Brunell has reclaimed the spot he won last preseason.
13. Somebody called Gibbs a liar and 1a. reappeared and declared war on 1b.

The truth is Ramsey had 7 games last year and only left us praying he would eliminate his mistakes Then he got 4 preseason games with the starters that confused half the people that root for the team.
Gibbs should have told Ramsey that he wasn't going to be the starter is the main beef I hear. OK... Why Ramsey didn't perform with no preasure on him to do so what makes anyone think he would have done better knowing his job was on the line. (see #2 then #3 above). Gibbs gave Ramsey ever chance to excel and he didn't (I won't say he can't because I think he can) Playing that team in Texas on next Monday night on national TV tells me we should be talking about other things but we arn't

I don't agree with anything you said above, but I do agree with your signiture line!

1niksder wrote:The truth is Ramsey had 7 games last year and only left us praying he would eliminate his mistakes

you should either move to where you can actually watch the games, or get NFL Sunday Ticket in DirecTV. (i am assuming you don't get to see the games, since no one who did could possibly make such an ignorant statement so utterly divorced from reality). for those of us who actually watched the games (and don't live in some distorted fantasy-land), ramsey demonstrated that he is capable of competing at a high level against elite NFL defenses.

his only start in which he threw more than one INT was the final game against dallas. the stats:

VS. PHILLY: 1 INT
VS. PITTSBURGH: 1 INT
VS. NY GIANTS: 0 INT
VS. PHILLY AGAIN: 1 INT
VS. SAN FRANSISCO: 0 INT
VS. DALLAS: 2 INT
VS. MINNESOTA: 1 INT

it is not only okay but almost inevitable to the point of being EXPECTED for an NFL QB to throw 1 INT in a game. an occasional game with 2 INTs is not a big deal.

so once and for all, EVERYONE NEEDS TO SHUT THE HELL UP WITH THE WHOLE "RAMSEY IS A TURNOVER MACHINE" BULLCRAP. if you continue with it, you are only proving that you are incapable of forming an intelligent opinion.