The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

King Cali Skin wrote:During the Bang-girl all night long game.
His throws didn't look fluid, maybe just me?
The motion looks odd, like he has something in his shoulder. I'll check out the Steelers game Friday.

He's changed his motion (shortened it) to cut down on time of delivery, sacks. He's been able to retain velocity, accuracy. Not pretty, but better. Ramsey's problems have been Redskin problems (note the new accuracy stats and the new analysis elsewhere on this site). What would Peyton's stats look like if he'd spent his career throwing while flat on his back to receivers like the rejects Ramsey's had to throw to. How many of them are now out of the league or on the pine somewhere? Get real about Ramsey, guys. He's done great so far on a very bad team and with very bad handling and he's going to be a top dog in the NFL.

Thanks, crazyhorse. That's what it was, the shorten motion. Looks just the opposite of Campbell. J. Cam arcs the ball too high over his head and Ram's flings the ball at shoulder level. I guess the short motion would be good for a short and intermediate passing game. Sort of difficult to launch the ball deep I would think, you need arcing leverage throw deep.

Whatever works, but don't you wanna look good doing it, ahah j/k.

I see that alot of you seem to think that Gibbs is all about ball control.I think that is just one of his game plan schemes.Gibbs is trying to create a deep field passing game threat for ball control and there is a big reason for this, it's called "The playoffs". Something we havn't seen much of, like in a decade. -You don't think Gibbs wants Ramsey to air it out this year?Are you on crack or what!!!Yea the short dinks and dunks are nice for game control, but you have to score points and get a good lead over your opponent for this to work!!!!!(Second half of the game)Lets see, what was the offense's problem last year?Scoring points, thats right!!!Gibbs learned the value of a good deep passing threat after the loss to the Raiders in the super bowl.The Doug Willams and Mark Rippen era had plenty of deep pass plays.You can't have one with out the other(ball control) and if you want to see the points put up like the Redskin teams from the past then we must hit the deep plays.I think this is why Gibbs is pushing Ramsey so hard in the pre-season and calling alot of pass plays, because we will need it in the play offs.Gibbs already knows Ramsey can hit the short plays and portis has a good run game and a good h-back and tight end.Gibbs likes to lay the knock out punch in the play-offs early and getting down the field and scoring big in the first half is part of it and then use that ball control to protect the lead in the second half.I think thats how Gibbs won our last two super bowls and put him to the icon level.I think that it was a good lesson for Ramsey last week and maybe he needs this to get him to play to the next level.

Great points BH! It's interesting to note, amongst those whe seem to know what is going on, how many different ideas people have as to what is going to be used to measure our success this season.

We are going to be better and we are going to be in the playoffs. Maybe not too deep but we will establish ourselves as being very competitive again and IMO Gibbs is setting the stage for present and continued success but all under the structure of Gibbs football which is using the clock or ball control offense and effective special teams and good defense. Basically just good sound football, not too flashy just effective.

I also do not think that the first 2 games had much in them that we can "take to the bank"! This week and next will be used again to guage some progress against good defences but we should not expect to "see" too much from Ramsey or Joe. This is the pre season and we just want to get through this and start eliminating the mistakes. I think that the mental mistakes is what made Joe so mad.

Gibbs is all about ball control.

Ball control with a lead. He use the run to open up the passing seams and he'll use the pass to open running lanes.

In the past he has used the deep pass to keep defense honest, last year he learned there is no more honesty on that side of the ball.

He took this off-season to adapt to this new Defensive philosophy. ALl off-season we have heard how outdated Joe's scheme were. The good thing is no one has noticed what he has done his homework this off-season.

As usual the press will have to catch-up. Most fans outside off this site will be surprised. The NFL will take notice...

Joe had a "throw away season" last time around, He can't get a "do-over" for last year but I think he'll make up for it this year.

I don't think his philosophy will change but the style and execution will. There will be never before used positions and formations.

I don't think we'll see the complete new package, until Campbell is ready in 06' or 07'

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote: By the way BossHog, I would like to know how long you want to give Ramsey before he "tanks" this whole season? 2 games, 3 games, 4...or more?

Uh, as I've told you many times, I don't conduct dialogue with people that just turn tail and run when their points are counterpointed. And you're the king of the duck and move. So try having a conversation with yourself because I think most people here know your shtick by now and you'll likely have trouble making that monologue a dialogue.

And Skinpride... I personally wasn't saying the Redskins weren't going to go deep, you obviously misinterpreted my post. OBVIOUSLY the Redskins want to spread the defense and go deep, that's why they're practicing it as much as anything else. What I was saying is that the fan base needs to recognize that the preseason offense is NOT AT ALL representative of the regular season offense. That has a very dramatic effect on how I personally GAUGE and JUDGE preseason performances.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:Poor Ramsey?

Yeah he gets to throw 2 picks in the red zone last week and his "fan base" comes on here and defends him like he is some kind of cult leader with their stupid statistics and assertions that he is more accurate than Brady .

Umm, did you even read BH's first post?


Did you completely ignore the points BH was making about run support, and how we have not provided any (except Betts showing everyone some good plays)? Don't you think that we would have handed off to CP during or before both of those interceptions? I think so - but he wasn't there.

That's not to say that Ramsey didn't make bad decisions in the red zone; but it's the preseason - Joe is calling plays that will likely not occur during the regular season as long as our backs remain healthy.


But thanks for your input anyway, God.

King Cali Skin wrote:I feel bad for him, like a nice Mongol kid who just doesn't get it. Hopefully he can Genghis Kong the league this season and destroy the Cow-girls, Midget, Iggles and AFC West.

You mean Khan? Or were you going for the Ghengis Khan - King Kong double team?

as i've said before, boss you are the man...good post

Today while I was suppost to be "workin" I was listening to the junkies. They were arguing over who should start. Well they called Sunny Gergunson and asked him some questions. To make it short Sunny would have Brunell be his starter as of NOW because he believes he is a lot healthier than last year and still can play the game. He said when Gibbs finalizes his decision he will say I chose Brunell/Ramsey because they give us a better chance to win RIGHT NOW. That being the case tonight is a huge deciding factor in this whole thing. Nothin is set in stone as of now.

I like the way our offense looks when Brunell is in because its like a dink and dunk offense. Our offense isnt made to have fantasy numbers. It is made to be mistake free, run the ball, and play field position. Neither quarterback is gonna have this team average 25 to 30 pts a game, so on that note it comes down to who WONT loose it for us. In the NFL these days teams blitz non stop and we play the most blitzing team "eagles" twice and I think Ramsey holds the ball to long which leads to turnovers and bad throws. Overall I believe Ramsey can put up huge numbers and win us a game one week and then the next week he could make those bad decisions and cost us an easy win that we know we should have had.

BossHog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote: By the way BossHog, I would like to know how long you want to give Ramsey before he "tanks" this whole season? 2 games, 3 games, 4...or more?

Uh, as I've told you many times, I don't conduct dialogue with people that just turn tail and run when their points are counterpointed. And you're the king of the duck and move. So try having a conversation with yourself because I think most people here know your shtick by now and you'll likely have trouble making that monologue a dialogue.

And Skinpride... I personally wasn't saying the Redskins weren't going to go deep, you obviously misinterpreted my post. OBVIOUSLY the Redskins want to spread the defense and go deep, that's why they're practicing it as much as anything else. What I was saying is that the fan base needs to recognize that the preseason offense is NOT AT ALL representative of the regular season offense. That has a very dramatic effect on how I personally GAUGE and JUDGE preseason performances.

I see that we are on the same page!!! I just wish other people can understand why gibbs is working on the deep pass play so much in the pre-season.Gibbs will pick his times to go down field it's like a big chess game.The one chess piece missing from last year was the deep pass play.The defense stacks the line make them pay with a deep bomb The defense will back of at certain times and the run game will take off.What did the Pats do last year to beat the eagles in the super bowl?The bomb from Brady set the tempo for the game.I understood your post B.h. just wanted people to understand why gibbs wants to throw deep.

Ramsey's the starter, deal with it. Brunnell looks great against 2nd and 3rd strings, why do we continue to waste dialogue on this subject

He isnt the starter for sure and there is a reason for that. He continues to make big mistakes. These interceptions arent tipped balls. There underthrown or there thrown into double coverage. Secondly I dont care what string Brunell is going against I am happy to see any of our QBs throw an accurate pass to a receiver that is open. I have seen Ramsey have open guys and he just misses. That right there has nothing to do with who is covering our guys. If there open the ball needs to be there. I want to see Ramsey do good because he has potential to be our future but I also want to see this team do good. We have to good of a defense to pass up another season. The quality of defense that we have this year is capable of taking us to the bowl if our offense can just hold there own.

giving someone time to develop or get use to a system is one thing. Having all day to throw the ball and throwing it in double coverage is another. We now "in my opinion" have one of the elite offense lines in football. We have one of the best runningbacks in the game. Ramsey needs to get rid of the ball faster and learn to throw it away if no one is there. We cant have him throw a touchdown in one drive then turn it over the next. Everyone keeps pointing out these bright spots. Yeh I see them also but trust me Gibbs doesnt give a crap about a few brightspots that are shadowed by costly turnovers. He would rather have someone consistent that makes less mistakes and can atleast control the ball and keep our team in the game.

I really hope Ramsey can step up tonight and play a great game. The mistakes he has made and the bad habits he still has are not caused by game plans or lack thereof but are issues he must correct. The question is how long will it take. The last time I listened to the Redhead he says Burnell looks much better amd I think he can make a honest evaluation. Without a significantly improved performance SOON I think Ramsey should be the #2 QB.

During the game tonight I hope I see a different Ramsey, someone who has confidence in his line, someone who knows turnovers kill drives, someone that can see the field and make timely decisions.

He`s a bad bad QB...I rather see Brunnel in there..he is more experience and he doesnt make as many mistakes...nor costly as Ramsey....Enough is enough now I see why Gibbs didn`t have enough faith in him....

Ramsey looked fine, he played great against the number 1 D, glad he'll be our starter

12-19, a TD, and a WIN. Way to go Ramsey.

IMO Ramsey did not have a good half. Threw the INT, underthrew Moss for a TD, and on two of the completions Moss and ey (TD)made him look good with super catches. If he can stay away from the INTs maybe we can win with him but he needs more time.

SKINS#1 wrote:IMO Ramsey did not have a good half. Threw the INT, underthrew Moss for a TD, and on two of the completions Moss and ey (TD)made him look good with super catches. If he can stay away from the INTs maybe we can win with him but he needs more time.

How would you asses the play of Rothlesberger? If you think Ramsey did'nt play well, Rothlesberger must have looked like a pop-warner player to you. Ramsey should have been 15 for 19, no int., and another touchdown, if he was perfect. He did'nt play flawlessly, but did'nt do any thing to lose his job.

The Moss play almost looked planned but its very hard to tell because Ramsey has been underthrowing people.

Ramsey also had Patten drop a sure pass on him and I think that one underthrown pass to Moss should have been caught anyway.

Ramsey wasn't steller but he was decent. If he can just stop throwing picks I'd be fine.

[quote="Chris Luva Luva"]The Moss play almost looked planned but its very hard to tell because Ramsey has been underthrowing people.


I agree. Ramsey said after the game he saw the safety with his back turned and Moss behind him so he did not want to overthrow the open receiver. He tried to thow a pass Moss could come back and catch while the safety's back was turned. It still looked very bad on TV. It seems Ramsey still has not got a feel for Moss' speed on the deep passes.

12/19 for 140+ yards, 1 INT and 1 TD. I'll take that vs. what is supposed to be the top defense in the league. Good for Patrick.

Brunell continues to look good, but considering his experience he SHOULD look this good against 2d stringers!!!!

AZHog..I agree that Ramsey must be having trouble judging the speed of his receivers. Given that explanation that he saw the safety's back turned, that was a dumb ass decision. Just air the ball out there and let your receiver go get it instead of trying to make the perfect pass. It worked for Jake Delhomme and the Panthers the year they reached the SB.

Chris Luva Luva, if Ramsey can stop throwing picks? That's a HUUUUGE if. I like Ramsey but looking at the situation objectively he has very little game experience that was not on his back (thanks to Spurrier). He's not displaying the cannon that he had very early in his career. Is this b/c Gibbs asked him to focus on his touch in the off season? DB's in this preseason are jumping his outs on an almost regular basis. For every good decision he makes with the ball, he makes a bad decision.

I am just not seeing, to this date, much to get excited about Ramsey for the regular season. Ramsey has my full support as a fan. I'm not one of the boo birds. But he needs to progress and do it in a hurry if we want to win games.

WuSkinsFan wrote:AZHog..I agree that Ramsey must be having trouble judging the speed of his receivers. Given that explanation that he saw the safety's back turned, that was a dumb ass decision. Just air the ball out there and let your receiver go get it instead of trying to make the perfect pass. It worked for Jake Delhomme and the Panthers the year they reached the SB.

Chris Luva Luva, if Ramsey can stop throwing picks? That's a HUUUUGE if. I like Ramsey but looking at the situation objectively he has very little game experience that was not on his back (thanks to Spurrier). He's not displaying the cannon that he had very early in his career. Is this b/c Gibbs asked him to focus on his touch in the off season? DB's in this preseason are jumping his outs on an almost regular basis. For every good decision he makes with the ball, he makes a bad decision.

I am just not seeing, to this date, much to get excited about Ramsey for the regular season. Ramsey has my full support as a fan. I'm not one of the boo birds. But he needs to progress and do it in a hurry if we want to win games.

To deliberately underthrow a receiver is not a stupid or bad call. It's been a part of the NFL game for decades. Ramsey's underthrow was textbook and perfect.
I think he and Moss tried it on the first long throw that went incomplete. Moss' anger was at the official because he (Moss) was interfered with getting back at the ball, not because the pass was short.
Moss and Ramsey are stopping DB's from cheating back without lookbacks-- a good thing to do at the start of a season.
Our man still has his cannon. It is doubtless difficult to adjust it to Moss' speed, but he will.
One thing for sure. In spite of how well Brunell plays, his arm has never been long enough to take full advantage of Moss and Patten.