The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

You know what they dp om College Football when this stuff happens? Kick them off the team... Even Dennis Erickson benched his players when this stuff happened at Miami.

Jake wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:no. you guys got it all wrong. it was that skinny black dude, you know the closet skins fan who claims to be a puke fan, who is always at these social events with lavar. he was just there to dig up a little more dirt on lavar just when.....

Who, "Fred Smoot?"

yep.

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

Irishskin wrote:Police are investigating a shooting at a party this weekend in Gambrills, Maryland. And there's word Redskins linebacker Lavar Arrington was there, but was not involved in the shooting and has not been charged in the incident.

Because of the incident, Redskins' linebacker Lavar Arrington skipped his

Why do fans always go with the worst case scenario. Arrington probably had nothing to do with this other then being there. Just calm down.

And why is it that when an incident occurs fans are always defending the person involved before they even know the facts. We heard the same thing about Sean Taylor.

Lavar is an idiot just like Taylor. Why is it that Jon Jansen and Patrick Ramsey never seem to be hanging out at bars and getting into gunfights or chasing down wannabe gang members at 2 am who stole their SUV and then Patrick pulls out a gun and points it at somebody who stole his vehicle?

Maybe none of this happens because Patrick and Jansen don't lead that kind of lifestyle. Maybe because they use their guns for hunting in the woods and not for carrying around to threaten people. Perhaps Jansen and Ramsey allow the police to handle this kind of thing.

And why is Lavar going to parties anyway. Party is now the code word for "fun". The way some of you defend going to parties is typical of college students who have no direction and wander aimlessly looking for the next thrill. Lavar has a direction, he has money, he has a job, and if he hasn't found a wife yet or fiance, then he sure won't find her at a party filled with hoochie mamas and gansta wannabe's. He can drink at home, spend time with a woman elsewhere than a "party", and he has 53 "friends" who don't pull guns"....well, make that 52 minus Taylor.

Arrington and Taylor coincidentally are both in the news with late night gun activity stories and just happen to be the only Redskins players to be complaining about contracts that they both signed giving them MILLIONS of dollars...only to wake up the next day and be totally unhappy with those contracts which they both signed, and demanding MORE.

Somehow, I think that imaturity is a disease in this society and is becoming contagious and spread through the internet. Now fans are beginning to believe that the same behavior that is NOT appropriate for their mother, father, or little sister, would be appropriate for everyone else, including perfect strangers who they have never met. Mature, intelligent people don't put themselves into situations like Taylor and Lavar have done.

I hope I am not the only one on this board who recognizes that you are defined by WHAT YOU DO. I believe Coach Gibbs is in line with that thinking also, which is why he stated to all his players last year..."don't embarass the Redskins".

Unfortunately we signed these players to huge deals and we can't get rid of them because of the cap. I think they would both be on the trading block otherwise.

JPM36 wrote:Couldnt Ade Jimoh or Clifton Smith be involved in one of these incidents? Why does it have to be Taylor and Arrington of all people???

Why would you want Clifton Smith in one of these incidents?

Why would you want ANYONE on our team in these incidents?

If you're referring to Smith as a bad player who would be cut if he got into trouble, then you're making a bad insinuation. He is one of the more talented linebackers on the team but is stuck behind the large amount of depth we have at that position.

BATMAN wrote:

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

Irishskin wrote:Police are investigating a shooting at a party this weekend in Gambrills, Maryland. And there's word Redskins linebacker Lavar Arrington was there, but was not involved in the shooting and has not been charged in the incident.

Because of the incident, Redskins' linebacker Lavar Arrington skipped his

Why do fans always go with the worst case scenario. Arrington probably had nothing to do with this other then being there. Just calm down.

And why is it that when an incident occurs fans are always defending the person involved before they even know the facts. We heard the same thing about Sean Taylor.

Lavar is an idiot just like Taylor. Why is it that Jon Jansen and Patrick Ramsey never seem to be hanging out at bars and getting into gunfights or chasing down wannabe gang members at 2 am who stole their SUV and then Patrick pulls out a gun and points it at somebody who stole his vehicle?

Maybe none of this happens because Patrick and Jansen don't lead that kind of lifestyle. Maybe because they use their guns for hunting in the woods and not for carrying around to threaten people. Perhaps Jansen and Ramsey allow the police to handle this kind of thing.

And why is Lavar going to parties anyway. Party is now the code word for "fun". The way some of you defend going to parties is typical of college students who have no direction and wander aimlessly looking for the next thrill. Lavar has a direction, he has money, he has a job, and if he hasn't found a wife yet or fiance, then he sure won't find her at a party filled with hoochie mamas and gansta wannabe's. He can drink at home, spend time with a woman elsewhere than a "party", and he has 53 "friends" who don't pull guns"....well, make that 52 minus Taylor.

Arrington and Taylor coincidentally are both in the news with late night gun activity stories and just happen to be the only Redskins players to be complaining about contracts that they both signed giving them MILLIONS of dollars...only to wake up the next day and be totally unhappy with those contracts which they both signed, and demanding MORE.

Somehow, I think that imaturity is a disease in this society and is becoming contagious and spread through the internet. Now fans are beginning to believe that the same behavior that is NOT appropriate for their mother, father, or little sister, would be appropriate for everyone else, including perfect strangers who they have never met. Mature, intelligent people don't put themselves into situations like Taylor and Lavar have done.

I hope I am not the only one on this board who recognizes that you are defined by WHAT YOU DO. I believe Coach Gibbs is in line with that thinking also, which is why he stated to all his players last year..."don't embarass the Redskins".

I disagree. People are different. I find it very hard to believe that LaVar had anything to do with this. Especially after all of the press with Taylor this summer. You've never been to a party where things seemed to be going fine and someone starts a fight? It happens. Why is that LaVar's fault? At least he wasn't shot like Joey Porter. LaVar is married. He doesn't need to prowl college parties looking for women. It's purely coincidence that Taylor and Arrington were both involved in incidents like this. Nothing more.

Your Charachter is judged by the company you keep.

JPM36 wrote:Couldnt Ade Jimoh or Clifton Smith be involved in one of these incidents? Why does it have to be Taylor and Arrington of all people???

Comparing this situation to Sean Taylor's is rediculous.

This isn't that big a deal. The subject of this post and the contents of the new report is that Lavar was a WITNESS.
You can't fault the guy for being at a mansion (did you see the picture?) and some guy fights with a security gaurd.

Cant anyone on this site take a joke?

All I was saying is that I wish some of the less important players would be the ones getting into these brushes with the law instead of our most highly paid and most talented players.

When did I compare this to the Sean Taylor thing? I just used the word "incidents" They are both incidents. The LaVar incident is just nothing major.


Clifton Smith is NOT one of our most talented linebackers. If he was he wouldn't be that far down the depth chart.

Update.

JPM36 hates Clifton Smith.

It seems that anything derogatory relative to the Redskins is magnified regardless of how incidental. IMO what many of us are thinking is that it always seems to be the same people whose name is involved regardless of how innocent.

Sounds like LaVar was throwing another birthday party for himself (Didn't someone say it was his birthday recently?). Last year the cops were called to his birthday party but it was just because of NOISE....not shootings...

LaVar - settle down and go out to dinner for your birthday or something, would ya ??

UPDATE ... 2 Injured Outside Linebackers Throw Party at Mansion....

Police probe shooting at pool party
Guard shot at event hosted by Arrington, Peterson
Posted: Tuesday June 28, 2005 2:27PM; Updated: Tuesday June 28, 2005 2:28PM
GAMBRILLS, Md. (AP) -- Anne Arundel County police are investigating a shooting of a security guard at a pool party hosted by NFL linebackers LaVar Arrington of the Washington Redskins and Julian Peterson of the San Francisco 49ers.

Arrington rented an 18,000-square-foot home near Gambrills for Saturday's party, as first reported by WUSA-TV in Washington. He and Peterson hosted the party along with a company called True Playaz Entertainment at the mansion, the site of several previous large parties, according to police spokesman Lt. Joseph Jordan.

"There have been a couple of loud party complaints, but nothing as serious as this has happened before," he said Tuesday.

James Sidney, 35, of Hyattsville, was shot early Sunday when he intervened in a scuffle, police said. He was flown to the University of Maryland Medical Center's R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center in Baltimore. He was in serious but stable condition, Jordan said. A Shock Trauma spokeswoman said Sidney requested that no further information be released.

Investigators don't believe Arrington was anywhere near the fight and shooting, although he was present at the party, Jordan said.

No one has been charged and there were no suspects, Jordan said.

Officers responded twice Saturday evening to noise complaints at the house -- just before 8 p.m. and again just before midnight, Jordan said.

During the second visit, someone who identified himself as Arrington told an officer he was shutting the party down, Jordan said. Officers were still at the home, making sure people were leaving, when the scuffle broke out and Sidney was shot.

Jordan said some people at the party were handcuffed and questioned but they were later released.

An agent who represents both Arrington and Peterson did not immediately return a call for comment.

Peterson played football at Crossland High School in Temple Hills and at Michigan State University. Arrington, who lives in Fairfax, Va., is from Pittsburgh and played at Penn State University.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/f ... index.html

Police Probe Shooting At Redskins Player's Party 2:20 PM

Jun 28, 2005 2:20 pm US/Eastern
Gambrills, MD. (AP) Anne Arundel County police are investigating a shooting of a security guard at a pool party hosted by NFL linebackers LaVar Arrington of the Washington Redskins and Julian Peterson of the San Francisco 49ers.

Arrington rented an 18,000-square-foot home near Gambrills for Saturday's party, as first reported by WUSA-TV in Washington. He and Peterson hosted the party along with a company called True Playaz Entertainment at the mansion, the site of several previous large parties, according to police spokesman Lt. Joseph Jordan.

"There have been a couple of loud party complaints, but nothing as serious as this has happened before," he said Tuesday.

James Sidney, 35, of Hyattsville, was shot early Sunday when he intervened in a scuffle, police said. He was flown to the University of Maryland Medical Center's R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center in Baltimore. He was in serious but stable condition, Jordan said. A Shock Trauma spokeswoman said Sidney requested that no further information be released.

Investigators don't believe Arrington was anywhere near the fight and shooting, although he was present at the party, Jordan said.

No one has been charged and there were no suspects, Jordan said.

Officers responded twice Saturday evening to noise complaints at the house -- just before 8 p.m. and again just before midnight, Jordan said.

During the second visit, someone who identified himself as Arrington told an officer he was shutting the party down, Jordan said. Officers were still at the home, making sure people were leaving, when the scuffle broke out and Sidney was shot.

Jordan said some people at the party were handcuffed and questioned but they were later released.

An agent who represents both Arrington and Peterson did not immediately return a call for comment.

Peterson played football at Crossland High School in Temple Hills and at Michigan State University. Arrington, who lives in Fairfax, Va., is from Pittsburgh and played at Penn State University.

merged with original shooting thread

here's another link
http://theredzone.org/news/showarticle. ... cleID=2859

JPM36 wrote:Clifton Smith is NOT one of our most talented linebackers. If he was he wouldn't be that far down the depth chart.

As stated, we have a lot of depth.

Lemar Marshall wasn't one of our better linebackers. Look how high up he is.

Robert McCune is one of our better linebackers. But he isn't very far above Mr. Smith, now is he?

Back to the topic...

Jake wrote:

JPM36 wrote:Clifton Smith is NOT one of our most talented linebackers. If he was he wouldn't be that far down the depth chart.

As stated, we have a lot of depth.

Lemar Marshall wasn't one of our better linebackers. Look how high up he is.

Robert McCune is one of our better linebackers. But he isn't very far above Mr. Smith, now is he?

Back to the topic...

We haven't seem Mccune play a down yet, I am one of his supporters but we can't really say yet that he is one of our best linebackers, I agree he is huge and a mature guy, but we can't be sure yet, even thought I still think he is a beast

Of course we have a lot of depth at LB. That's exactly why I don't think Clifton Smith is one of our most talented players there. Maybe if he was on another team he would be, but in Washington he's a backup at best. LB is a real strength for us.

No need to argue about this.

I was just using Clifton Smith bc he was the first reserve LB that popped into my head. The same way Jimoh was the first reserve secondary player I thought of. It's not a dig on him at all. All I was saying is that I wish it wasn't our best players always finding themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[/quote]I disagree. People are different. I find it very hard to believe that LaVar had anything to do with this. Especially after all of the press with Taylor this summer. You've never been to a party where things seemed to be going fine and someone starts a fight? It happens. Why is that LaVar's fault? At least he wasn't shot like Joey Porter. LaVar is married. He doesn't need to prowl college parties looking for women. It's purely coincidence that Taylor and Arrington were both involved in incidents like this. Nothing more.[/quote]

First...go back and read what I wrote about fans defending perfect strangers that they never met.

Second, read the part of the stroy where Lavar rented an 1800 square foot mansion to throw a party. Do you think a lot of white church members were there or more likely a bunch of hoochie mamas and chain wearing, gun toting, drug dealers might have shown up? Ever watch BET and the videos where a mansion is featured, a bunch of hoochie mamas, and a whole lot of mean nasty looking guys with chains around their necks and SUV's that were paid for by drug money. They don't make that stuff up: it goes on.

Big shock here, but society is breaking down, there are few jobs for young black males, and drugs and violence are a basic reality in their world. If Lavar rents an 18000 square foot mansion, it's safe to assume 45 people weren't invited, but more like 450 people showed up....many of them from the aforementioned neighborhoods and lifestyle I just mentioned.

Rich black athletes are rich because of their physical skills, and not because of their doctorate degrees. And in fact most of them come from poor black neighborhoods where drugs and violence were a daily scene, and most of their friends were part of it. The sad part is that just because a guy...like Ray Lewis or Sean Taylor or Lavar or anybody else
for that matter...just because the guy can play football and make a million dollars...their friends didn't and they remain in that lifestyle.

I can predict with uncanny accuracy what is going to happen at huge parties where drug dealers, hoochie mamas, and the criminal element show up. There are hundreds of similar parties like this every month in the US but you don't hear a lot about them because they don't always involve athletes.

Stupid people do stupid things, and this kind of nonsense will continue not only in the NFL but in the NBA and major league baseball and everywhere else. People who don't know boundaries....like the basketball players who were suspended last year....or Sean Taylor....will still be defended by fans who don't have a grasp on reality but instead continue to live in this FANTASY world of sports. You are safe in your living room so its easy to say "hey, let my hero out of jail or let him do what he wants. He's only in my TV", but the truth is that he is in the real world....not just your TD.

People who have no boundaries, like Michael Jackson, or Sean Taylor, will always continue to do the things they do until someone puts the breaks on for them. Lack of evidence is NOT an excuse to continue inappropriate behavior and should never be a reason to excuse it. The facts are the facts, and as I stated before.......you are judged by WHAT YOU DO. And Lavar did something really STUPID. He held a HUGE party with no controls and no boundaries. 18000 square feet is too big for ANY party...much less a party where money is spent like there is no limit.

My advice for Lavar is this: if he is so short on cash that he is suing the Redskins for more money, he should stop throwing parties and renting out 18000 squarefoot mansions. Stay home with your wife and throw dinner parties for 8 people....people you know. You will find you will witness far less shootings.

Who does't like hoochie mamas? I find myself inexplicably drawn to them.

And I like to say it over and over. Hoochie mama Hoochie mama

BATMAN wrote:

I disagree. People are different. I find it very hard to believe that LaVar had anything to do with this. Especially after all of the press with Taylor this summer. You've never been to a party where things seemed to be going fine and someone starts a fight? It happens. Why is that LaVar's fault? At least he wasn't shot like Joey Porter. LaVar is married. He doesn't need to prowl college parties looking for women. It's purely coincidence that Taylor and Arrington were both involved in incidents like this. Nothing more.[/quote]

First...go back and read what I wrote about fans defending perfect strangers that they never met.

Second, read the part of the stroy where Lavar rented an 1800 square foot mansion to throw a party. Do you think a lot of white church members were there or more likely a bunch of hoochie mamas and chain wearing, gun toting, drug dealers might have shown up? Ever watch BET and the videos where a mansion is featured, a bunch of hoochie mamas, and a whole lot of mean nasty looking guys with chains around their necks and SUV's that were paid for by drug money. They don't make that stuff up: it goes on.

Big shock here, but society is breaking down, there are few jobs for young black males, and drugs and violence are a basic reality in their world. If Lavar rents an 18000 square foot mansion, it's safe to assume 45 people weren't invited, but more like 450 people showed up....many of them from the aforementioned neighborhoods and lifestyle I just mentioned.

Rich black athletes are rich because of their physical skills, and not because of their doctorate degrees. And in fact most of them come from poor black neighborhoods where drugs and violence were a daily scene, and most of their friends were part of it. The sad part is that just because a guy...like Ray Lewis or Sean Taylor or Lavar or anybody else
for that matter...just because the guy can play football and make a million dollars...their friends didn't and they remain in that lifestyle.

I can predict with uncanny accuracy what is going to happen at huge parties where drug dealers, hoochie mamas, and the criminal element show up. There are hundreds of similar parties like this every month in the US but you don't hear a lot about them because they don't always involve athletes.

Stupid people do stupid things, and this kind of nonsense will continue not only in the NFL but in the NBA and major league baseball and everywhere else. People who don't know boundaries....like the basketball players who were suspended last year....or Sean Taylor....will still be defended by fans who don't have a grasp on reality but instead continue to live in this FANTASY world of sports. You are safe in your living room so its easy to say "hey, let my hero out of jail or let him do what he wants. He's only in my TV", but the truth is that he is in the real world....not just your TD.

People who have no boundaries, like Michael Jackson, or Sean Taylor, will always continue to do the things they do until someone puts the breaks on for them. Lack of evidence is NOT an excuse to continue inappropriate behavior and should never be a reason to excuse it. The facts are the facts, and as I stated before.......you are judged by WHAT YOU DO. And Lavar did something really STUPID. He held a HUGE party with no controls and no boundaries. 18000 square feet is too big for ANY party...much less a party where money is spent like there is no limit.

My advice for Lavar is this: if he is so short on cash that he is suing the Redskins for more money, he should stop throwing parties and renting out 18000 squarefoot mansions. Stay home with your wife and throw dinner parties for 8 people....people you know. You will find you will witness far less shootings.[/quote]

Might have to move this one to smack.

Some of us may be defending people we have never met, but it seems as though you are just attacking them. I am assuming you have never met Arrington or Taylor.

You don't need to talk down about people just because some players, or just people in general, live a different lifestyle then you.

Might have to move this one to smack.

Some of us may be defending people we have never met, but it seems as though you are just attacking them. I am assuming you have never met Arrington or Taylor.

You don't need to talk down about people just because some players, or just people in general, live a different lifestyle then you.

Exactly!

INMO most people who are critical of players lifestyles [partying] are people who are to young to know what it is all about or the older fan who has done all of their dirt and now thinks that no one else is suppose to have fun with their lives or the fan who has gotten in trouble with the law for partying too much or the fan that had an early family[kids] due to having too much fun. Gimme a break.

The athlete is a human being, not a freakin robot. They have lives and will continue to live their lives the way they want to, whether some of you 'self righteous' people like it or not.

What's wrong with defending someone you never met (I have met LA though, he was really nice) when HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME and the police say that he was nowhere near the incident!

I personally think that it's wrong to accuse someone of doing something when you have absolutely no proof that they have been involved.

Please, let's wait until there is some more information before the allegations start flying, it's the least we can do.

I am not at all happy that Lavar was throwing a party where he was associating himself with peolpe who would do something like this but I am going to reserve my judgement until more information comes out.

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

BATMAN wrote:

I disagree. People are different. I find it very hard to believe that LaVar had anything to do with this. Especially after all of the press with Taylor this summer. You've never been to a party where things seemed to be going fine and someone starts a fight? It happens. Why is that LaVar's fault? At least he wasn't shot like Joey Porter. LaVar is married. He doesn't need to prowl college parties looking for women. It's purely coincidence that Taylor and Arrington were both involved in incidents like this. Nothing more.

First...go back and read what I wrote about fans defending perfect strangers that they never met.

Second, read the part of the stroy where Lavar rented an 1800 square foot mansion to throw a party. Do you think a lot of white church members were there or more likely a bunch of hoochie mamas and chain wearing, gun toting, drug dealers might have shown up? Ever watch BET and the videos where a mansion is featured, a bunch of hoochie mamas, and a whole lot of mean nasty looking guys with chains around their necks and SUV's that were paid for by drug money. They don't make that stuff up: it goes on.

Big shock here, but society is breaking down, there are few jobs for young black males, and drugs and violence are a basic reality in their world. If Lavar rents an 18000 square foot mansion, it's safe to assume 45 people weren't invited, but more like 450 people showed up....many of them from the aforementioned neighborhoods and lifestyle I just mentioned.

Rich black athletes are rich because of their physical skills, and not because of their doctorate degrees. And in fact most of them come from poor black neighborhoods where drugs and violence were a daily scene, and most of their friends were part of it. The sad part is that just because a guy...like Ray Lewis or Sean Taylor or Lavar or anybody else
for that matter...just because the guy can play football and make a million dollars...their friends didn't and they remain in that lifestyle.

I can predict with uncanny accuracy what is going to happen at huge parties where drug dealers, hoochie mamas, and the criminal element show up. There are hundreds of similar parties like this every month in the US but you don't hear a lot about them because they don't always involve athletes.

Stupid people do stupid things, and this kind of nonsense will continue not only in the NFL but in the NBA and major league baseball and everywhere else. People who don't know boundaries....like the basketball players who were suspended last year....or Sean Taylor....will still be defended by fans who don't have a grasp on reality but instead continue to live in this FANTASY world of sports. You are safe in your living room so its easy to say "hey, let my hero out of jail or let him do what he wants. He's only in my TV", but the truth is that he is in the real world....not just your TD.

People who have no boundaries, like Michael Jackson, or Sean Taylor, will always continue to do the things they do until someone puts the breaks on for them. Lack of evidence is NOT an excuse to continue inappropriate behavior and should never be a reason to excuse it. The facts are the facts, and as I stated before.......you are judged by WHAT YOU DO. And Lavar did something really STUPID. He held a HUGE party with no controls and no boundaries. 18000 square feet is too big for ANY party...much less a party where money is spent like there is no limit.

My advice for Lavar is this: if he is so short on cash that he is suing the Redskins for more money, he should stop throwing parties and renting out 18000 squarefoot mansions. Stay home with your wife and throw dinner parties for 8 people....people you know. You will find you will witness far less shootings.[/quote]

Might have to move this one to smack.

Some of us may be defending people we have never met, but it seems as though you are just attacking them. I am assuming you have never met Arrington or Taylor.

You don't need to talk down about people just because some players, or just people in general, live a different lifestyle then you. [/quote]

You are right, I have never met Arrington: which is why I am commenting on his actions. You are also right that they live a different lifestyle than me.So did Chalres Manson, Saddamm Hussein, and the BTK killer: So I guess I shouldn't comment on them, is that what you are saying?

You are judged by the things you do, not by your thoughts. I have no idea what Lavar or TAYLOR think...I can only judge what they do, and by anybody's standards they are doing inappropriate things.

I have yet to figure out where I am talking down to anyone, but if someone feels that way, perhaps my words on poor judgement hit a little too close to home. I am curious why you think a paragraph or two on good judgement or players displaying inappropriate behavior is "smack". What is "smack". If you can't recognize when people are breaking the law or when players are "embarassing the Redskins", then you probably have a hard time discerning the difference between right and wrong, and it's not my place to teach you that.

The fact is that society sets standards and boundaries, not me and not you. ESPN and Fox news and CNN cover the Lavar, Taylor, and Michael Jackson stories NOT because they are positive stories, but because they are out of line with the boundaries society has set. I have no idea why me commenting on the Skins players who don't understand boundaries, should be called "smack". Perhaps you could enlighten me.

Anyway you slice it, these stories involving Lavar and Taylor involved somebody BREAKING the law, as well as using poor judgement. I have no idea why you want to defend somebody in that position because they have lawyers who do that....and anyway you slice it....these 2 have broken Joe Gibb's rule: Don't embarass the Redskins.

It's getting to the point where I'm almost expecting to see bad news surrounding a Redskin whenever I open up the THN message board. I don't think that Lavar is going to get nailed with anything, nor do I think he's done anything illegal.

However, even though he's done nothing illegal, it would certainly be nice if Lavar (and some of our other players) could control themselves and better regulate the kind of company that they spend their time with.

I find myself wishing for the quiet, boring offseason that we seemed to get started on back in March, but lost right around the time of the draft and offseason workouts.