Excellent Quote

[DEHog]

The fan shot is uncalled for. I understand that you are frustrated that Redskin tickets are going to opposition's fans but that's on the FO as much as the fans.

They haven't stopped going just because of how the team is playing... they have stopped going because it is the second highest priced ticket in the NFL, and a lot of people just can't afford it... let alone justify paying it to watch a piss poor effort.

I understand that it's the minority and not the majority. But I can't hang this totally on the FO...what can thay do? The fans are buying the tickets their just not showing up, they lay in waiting for the team to win. The Skins have a Full stadium on the waiting list. But fans don't want to give up their tickets. When the Skins start winning they'll come back and they'll say I've be a season ticket holder since 1962 ect... As for DS I really can't argrue your points because I really do aggree with you.

Yes there are many things going on the average fan does not have purvey to.Yes DS should have let SS sink or swim on his own. I just see most of the blame being thrown his way. And as I stated everyone has a stake in this. The additude with some is win first then I'll come! Everyone says the person at the top is responsible and that's true somewhat but you can't compare this to a regular company or job. If the owner of the company you work for sucks do you just stop going to work? Do you contiue to pay your dues. People suffer everyday at their jobs. This is football you have a choice as a fan not to go. Where I differ with that is I feel you should just give up your tickets. I just feel as fans we should show up and support. It's a marriage for better or worst.

Boss you stated the FO is as much resposible for the tickets going to other fans what make you feel the way and what do you think can be done aside form winning, I know winnnig cures all. It is unrealistic to think a team can win every year

[BossHog]

Boss you stated the FO is as much resposible for the tickets going to other fans what make you feel the way and what do you think can be done aside form winning, I know winnnig cures all. It is unrealistic to think a team can win every year

Because fans aren't getting rid of the tickets JUST because of how the team is playing. They're getting rid of them because it's getting so expensive to go to a game and it's just not worth good money to watch a worthless effort.

Winning won't cure all of this. I can tell you that the FO has rotated through that 'waiting list' so quickly that it won't exist soon. There are people that have only waited the last 3 years and have already been called, compared to some people who waited over a decade. And a 5-11 season isn't going to help that too much is it?

You were at camp right? How many days did you go? How many times did you get harassed to put your name on the waiting list. I can tell you that I was pitched at least 50 times the week I was there and offered Redskin towels etc to do so. I can honestly say that they came off as desperate to get people on that list. You don't need to do that when you have a 'stadium full' waiting.... but when those nimbers are dwindling at break neck speed, a smart guy like DS knows he better start early or there won't be anyone left.

What can be done aside from winning?

Where do I start....
1) Don't raise ticket prices and cite covering costs when the fans know that you made 70 million bucks last year. Not that an owner doesn't have a right to make money -- I totally think he does-- but when a team has a losing season, it's just not smart to raise prices 10%.

2) Don't let money drive every decision made. This crap of the fans taking DS to court for the right to walk to Fed Ex instead of paying for parking or paying for a bus is ludicrous. It leaves a very sour taste in people's mouths. If a fan ants to save a little money by walking, DS will have to find other nickels and dimes to wrench from them. Charging for training camp a few years back is another great example of this problem. There are still people that are bitter about that.

3) Structure. This team is getting difficult for your average fan to follow... so many new bodies EVERY year. With so many different personnel moves in 5 years, and still no apparent direction, this team has no identity for a fan to relate to. Since our FO can't put something together that works -- they have to change it constantly.

4) perception. We are becoming the laughing stock of the league, and while that means little to me... it won't be long before it drastically affects things. Perception goes a long way. If the FO continues the pattern they have set, even Danny's money won't be able to lure players or coaches here. Coaches won't want to come because they have to basically agree to be a pawn. Players won't want to come because their coach is a pawn and the head don't know which way the tail is wagging. Obviously when that happens, there will be even less reasons for a fan to come to games.


You say a fan should just give up his tickets... I think you'll find that a lot of them do... that's why people are waiting less than 3 years my friend. There are other factors like increased stadium capacity, but some of it is definitely just fans having had enough. And an owner that ignores his fan base's opinion is doomed to lose them.

I could go on and on, but as I said before, it's a waste of time. I don't want to come off as a Danny basher. As I have stated repetedly, his raw tools are phenomenal (Snyder's), but he's spinning his wheels right now, and the fans are the ones that are stuck in the mud.

[DEHog]

All good points!! I never expected to get called this soon. I guess my expectations were high, having attended a few games in the RFK atmosphere. I to feel DS has brought this organization down a little I guess I have reserved my judgemant until he get more experience. If he's still doing this 5 years from now then I've got a huge problem.

If you don't see winning curing this then are saying you see a half full stadium?? Football is riding a wave...how long will it last? The other major sports seem to have top out. there's so many things competing for our $$ now days. I don't think DS would ever have a problem attaching a quality coach because has Madden and many other has said there's only 32 of these job.

Would losing the fan base affect Synder??

I've heard of some owners doing some different things lately. Blank took out a full page ad and aplogized to the city for the Falcons this year. A few year back a hockey owner, I believe gave season ticket holders a refund for not making the playoffs!

[hailskins666]

A few year back a hockey owner, I believe gave season ticket holders a refund for not making the playoffs!

snyder would be on food stamps if he did that

[BossHog]

If you don't see winning curing this then are you saying you see a half full stadium??

No what I am saying is that even if the stadium is full, it will be full of people who are new to the team, not the loyal fans that have been supporting their team for decades. I am saying that you hate that the stadium is full of the opposition's fans and I would put to you that the loyal faithful aren't the ones selling their tickets... it's the new fan base that doesn't have the tradition of the franchise at heart. It's a little harder to sell your tickets to a Cowboys fan when you have a clue about the rivalry... newbies won't care, they just want to recoup their costs.

I don't think DS would ever have a problem attaching a quality coach because has Madden and many other has said there's only 32 of these job.

Unfortunately, that still leaves 31 other places to go. Money can't buy EVERYTHING. The GOOD candidates for a coaching job don't have to choose what they consider a lesser opportunity. So what if there are 32 teams, there are at least 25 coaches that I wouldn't want here. You have to be able to draw the elite... not just find a filler.

Would losing the fan base affect Synder??

Well if it doesn't then it proves what all of his detractors say about him... that he doesn't give a rat's ass about the franchise and it's rich tradition... all he cares about is making money. Those fans are the ones putting money in his pocket... if he steers them wrong, it will eventuall come back to haunt him.

I've heard of some owners doing some different things lately. Blank took out a full page ad and aplogized to the city for the Falcons this year. A few year back a hockey owner, I believe gave season ticket holders a refund for not making the playoffs!

Snyder has yet to do anything but raise prices... lowering them, or rebating for poor performance is definitely not in his nature. He seems to be going on the impression that there are SO many Redskin fans that if he peeves a few thousand of them there will be a few thousand more waiting. That logic can only bear itself out for so long. Eventually, we'll be left with nothing but corporate big wigs at games, because there the only ones who can afford it and they're the only ones that Snyder caters to (luxury suite additions etc)

I agree that Snyder is still new at this... but so what? Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it. This offseason will teach us a lot about what The Danny has learned... if anything.

[DEHog]

[quote="BossHog]
No what I am saying is that even if the stadium is full, it will be full of people who are new to the team, not the loyal fans that have been supporting their team for decades. I am saying that you hate that the stadium is full of the opposition's fans and I would put to you that the loyal faithful aren't the ones selling their tickets... it's the new fan base that doesn't have the tradition of the franchise at heart. It's a little harder to sell your tickets to a Cowboys fan when you have a clue about the rivalry... newbies won't care, they just want to recoup their costs.[/quote]



Now that is the most logical thing I heard yet (that why we pay you so much) I truly think you hit the nail on the head. I brought tickets off the market in 97 the first year in FedEx and I rember a lot of people say they didn't like it. The stadium, parking etc. I believe we lost alot of true fans from RFK. Now what can be done?? How can we have fans like the Cubs,Packers,Red Wings, Chiefs. I don't ever see DS endearing himself to the fans, plus he's made such a bad first impression not sure if the fans would accept it. I know one thing to have any chance he'll have to do it while he has a full stadium. Plus he's so young we may never see another owner

[BossHog]

Now that is the most logical thing I heard yet (that why we pay you so much)

Well if I'm getting paid at all I don't know what bank account it's going to

I get paid in self gratification... but sometimes it's hard to buy food with gratification.

I truly think you hit the nail on the head. I brought tickets off the market in 97 the first year in FedEx and I rember a lot of people say they didn't like it. The stadium, parking etc. I believe we lost alot of true fans from RFK. Now what can be done?? How can we have fans like the Cubs,Packers,Red Wings, Chiefs. I don't ever see DS endearing himself to the fans, plus he's made such a bad first impression not sure if the fans would accept it.

Yes we did lose a lot of people when we made the move to Fed Ex, no doubt about that. The Red Wings have an owner that would buy Michigan if he thought it would help them win a cup... that's why their fans are like they are. (right Wingman?) The Packers fans own the team, so that's a whole different story.

What can we do about it? Well since having NOBODY show up for a game at Fed Ex is never going to happen, there's not a lot we can do. We as individuals certainly can't hurt DS financially, nor can we really as a whole... there are hundreds of thousands of Redskins fans out there. I think that is why I try to stress to people to always remember how much you LOVE THE FRANCHISE and that it is not only OK, it is your right to not follow blindly. If you don't like something, you can say so. Our only recourse is to want to be heard... to want to voice our displeasure with what is happening to our franchise. i could add a lot more, but I think if you read Les' Cheap Seats tomorrow, you'll know how I feel about the state of the team right now.... because he summed it all up for me. And if you will all recall... there are things about DS and SOS that me and the big guy don't agree about. But you'll never find two guys that love the Redskins more than we do, and it is imperative that we all remember how much we love Washington football and not let ANYTHING ever deprive you of that. And then i think you just have to believe in the fact that with so many good fans... who deserve better, somehow, somewhere, some time... things will get better.

I know one thing to have any chance he'll have to do it while he has a full stadium.

Totally agree there... once it's too late... it's just too late.

Plus he's so young we may never see another owner

Ain't that the truth. That's why I HOPE that he learns from his mistakes or I (we) are doomed to suffer through many more bad football seasons.

Now if Snyder really loves this team... shouldn't he eventually reach these same conclusions? Personally, I can't believe Sonny J. just sits there beside him all off the time... I would have thought that was one guy who knew what this storied franchise is/was and should be about. Hey Sonny... give DS a kick in the ass will ya.. and tell him we know how brilliant he is already, he doesn't need to try and prove he's a football GM too. He can show us he's more brilliant by stepping aside and sticking to what he knows best... marketing, schmoozing and spending money on the Redskins. Leave the talent evaluation to someone who knows something about football.

[RedskinsFreak]

I agree that Snyder is still new at this ... but so what? Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it. This offseason will teach us a lot about what The Danny has learned ... if anything.

Well said, Mark.

Snyder should be able to tell how successful organizations do things and that his should be run in a similar manner.

The owner needs to be NFL-ized as well.

Being successful HIS WAY is clearly more important than just being successful.

I wonder if he helps his driver with the maintenance of the limo. Somehow, i don't see Danny changing his own oil.

[hailskins666]

Being successful HIS WAY is clearly more important than just being successful.

I wonder if he helps his driver with the maintenance of the limo. Somehow, i don't see Danny changing his own oil.

Deeep ca-ca........good analogy freak i agree.

[BossHog]

Hey RF, just wanted to say Hi, haven't seen you for a bit.

Hope all is well and you had a good holiday season.

Being successful HIS WAY is clearly more important than just being successful.

Very well put.

[RedskinsFreek]

Hey RF, just wanted to say Hi, haven't seen you for a bit.

Hope all is well and you had a good holiday season.

I did. Hope the same for you up dere. Got a little down in the dumps over this team and didn't feel like talking about it.

Being successful HIS WAY is clearly more important than just being successful.

Very well put.

Why thank you.

Just you WAIT until you hear what our guys have come up with ..... I'll post it here before it even hits the Web.

This one's gooooood -- but then again, good is relative.

[BossHog]

Oh what a tease.

I look forward to it.

[Wingman]

Boss- What's up with the Red Wings jab, bro?

Just wanted to echo my sentiments as well and say that your are dead on with your take. For the sake of moving on to the real important things I now digress.

I am so ready for the offseason to take flight.

[BossHog]

no jab buddy.... totally serious. Why wouldn't fans cotinue to suport their team? Illich will do ANYTHING to put a winner in Detroit. He has his quirks, but there's a guy who USES a lot of his money on the team and just steps aside.

Of course it helps having pretty much unlimited money

You know that I reserve my Red Wings slams to Curtis Boo Hoo Joseph content only.

[Wingman]

Your jealously is amusing. Just remember that I will always have a seat waiting for you on the Hockeytown USA Bandwagon. We are always willing to accept you rye drinking, delusional Canadians. You know, in case a fight breaks out.