The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

yea , as much i want campbell to start ,I think Gibbs wil give ramsey one more year.But if he starts to play bad, Gibbs wil put Campbell in i think .

JGibbs will not put Jason in there if PRamsey were to go down. He'd let noodle arm play and then when he sucked again, Jason would get a shot.
I don't think we have to worry about PRamsey doing bad though. He's got all he needs. A pretty good O-Line, great recievers, and a awesome running back.

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:JGibbs will not put Jason in there if PRamsey were to go down. He'd let noodle arm play and then when he sucked again, Jason would get a shot.
I don't think we have to worry about PRamsey doing bad though. He's got all he needs. A pretty good O-Line, great recievers, and a awesome running back.

Hatsoff, I think that it's no longer "hatsOFF2gibbs??" and you're well on your way to just being "hatsOFF2gibbs." Keep up the level-headed optimism.

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:JGibbs will not put Jason in there if PRamsey were to go down. He'd let noodle arm play and then when he sucked again, Jason would get a shot.
I don't think we have to worry about PRamsey doing bad though. He's got all he needs. A pretty good O-Line, great recievers, and a awesome running back.

I think the problems with ramsey are two things


1. He trys to do to much , He always goes for the home run ball and gets picked off. and Holds the ball looking for th home run ball and gets sacked. He needs to just take what the defense gives him look of the saftys and play under control. and drop some degrees drop it keep cools.
And again Ramsey to me is very inaccurtae going down the field he throws punts basically. and Throws the ball to the middle of the field when you do that thngs happen
1. the saftey just picks off the ball
2.your wr get to the ball but gets bl0wn up and distroyed over the middle.
3.your wr gets blown up and the saftey gets the int.


2. As soon as he see,s a DT ot DE or blitzer his natural instints are to get the ball out of his hands fast, Wrong there many things you can do run run run for yards. two look for a RB or Te or if every thing fauls throw the ball out of boards. Why doesnt Ramsey throw the ball out of board, Ramsey has that Arena football mentality get the ball down the field with one play . In the NFl you cant do that.

batman2k5 wrote:I think the problems with ramsey are two things


1. He trys[sp] to do to[sp] much , He always goes for the home run ball and gets picked off.

i have been chasing you around every thread on this board with this statistic, so please don't continue to pretend you haven't seen it. you are simply going to have to modify your argument about ramsey and stop ignoring this fact:

WHEN HE STARTS, RAMSEY HAS THROWN ABOUT 32% MORE TDs (22) THAN INTERCEPTIONS (15) over 2003-2004

Here's another little interesting stat. He's never been sacked by a Polish DT named Lars.

die cowboys die wrote:

batman2k5 wrote:I think the problems with ramsey are two things


1. He trys[sp] to do to[sp] much , He always goes for the home run ball and gets picked off.

i have been chasing you around every thread on this board with this statistic, so please don't continue to pretend you haven't seen it. you are simply going to have to modify your argument about ramsey and stop ignoring this fact:

WHEN HE STARTS, RAMSEY HAS THROWN ABOUT 32% MORE TDs (22) THAN INTERCEPTIONS (15) over 2003-2004

would you like for me to go get the nfl high lights where ramsey just throws up punts in the air and gets picked off. ok this is liek court i guess i need proff


watch the last 30 seconds of this highlight this is the second eagles game

http://www.redskins.com/news/multimedia ... artRow=91#


this one is the pittsburg game

http://www.redskins.com/news/multimedia ... artRow=91#


this is the giants game when ramsey throws 3 ints in one half

http://www.redskins.com/news/multimedia ... rtRow=121#


http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302216

lets go back to numbers and stats if u look at the nfl .com stats Ramsey has a career qb rating of 74.4 out of 158.3
55.6% commplition of passes
29 career fumbles 23 lost fumbles to the other team 6 in 2005 under gibbs . 32TDs and 28 ints Yard per pass is 6.42

timm hasselbeck of the seahawk has a 7.14 yards per pass-59%
chad pennington had a 7.22 yards per pass-65.8% that 10 more points than ramsey
peyton manning had 9.12 yards per pass-63% comp
tim ratty had a 7.22 ypa in 2003 6.64 in 2004-63% comp
leftwhich had 6.67 ypa -58.9 % comp

first i would like to correct my own math- 22 is about 46% more than 15. i must've hit a wrong button the first time i calculated that. so let me modify my statement:

WHEN HE STARTS, RAMSEY HAS THROWN ABOUT 46% MORE TDs (22) THAN INTERCEPTIONS (15) over 2003-2004

if we include ANY games he threw more than 1 pass in from his rookie season (2002), the totals become 31 TDs and 21 INTs. that is still about 46-47% more TDs than INTs.
*note- i am discluding the game vs. jacksonville and the 1st dallas game from 2002, since he was only put in for the sole purpose of throwing ONE hail mary pass as the 1st half was running out in each case.
i would also like to point out that 4 of his 6 real INTs that season came in his 1st ever NFL start (vs. the saints) and that after that he threw 6 TDs and only 2 INTs-- at least one of which wasn't even his fault- his receiver mishandled it, bopped it up in the air and the dallas defender caught it).
don't forget he threw THREE TDs vs. the eagles in one game either.

anyway, let's compare ramsey to the great peyton manning. he is probably one of the greatest QBs of all time, if not the greatest at this point. but how did he fare his 1st 3 seasons?

yes, he threw 85 TDs. but he also threw 58 INTs! 58. that is almost 4 times as many as ramsey, who you are criticizing for being an interception machine. his overall TD/INT ratio? a familiar number:
OVER HIS FIRST THREE SEASONS, PEYTON MANNING THREW ABOUT 46% MORE TDs THAN INTERCEPTIONS

and before you argue, i know i am "editing" ramsey's stats but not peyton's. but i find that to be reasonable, fair- manning started EVERY game. he was never chucked in there unprepared with his team down by 2 or 3 TDs and asked to come from behind and save the day.

die cowboys die wrote:first i would like to correct my own math- 22 is about 46% more than 15. i must've hit a wrong button the first time i calculated that. so let me modify my statement:

WHEN HE STARTS, RAMSEY HAS THROWN ABOUT 46% MORE TDs (22) THAN INTERCEPTIONS (15) over 2003-2004

if we include ANY games he threw more than 1 pass in from his rookie season (2002), the totals become 31 TDs and 21 INTs. that is still about 46-47% more TDs than INTs.
*note- i am discluding the game vs. jacksonville and the 1st dallas game from 2002, since he was only put in for the sole purpose of throwing ONE hail mary pass as the 1st half was running out in each case.
i would also like to point out that 4 of his 6 real INTs that season came in his 1st ever NFL start (vs. the saints) and that after that he threw 6 TDs and only 2 INTs-- at least one of which wasn't even his fault- his receiver mishandled it, bopped it up in the air and the dallas defender caught it).
don't forget he threw THREE TDs vs. the eagles in one game either.

anyway, let's compare ramsey to the great peyton manning. he is probably one of the greatest QBs of all time, if not the greatest at this point. but how did he fare his 1st 3 seasons?

yes, he threw 85 TDs. but he also threw 58 INTs! 58. that is almost 4 times as many as ramsey, who you are criticizing for being an interception machine. his overall TD/INT ratio? a familiar number:
OVER HIS FIRST THREE SEASONS, PEYTON MANNING THREW ABOUT 46% MORE TDs THAN INTERCEPTIONS

and before you argue, i know i am "editing" ramsey's stats but not peyton's. but i find that to be reasonable, fair- manning started EVERY game. he was never chucked in there unprepared with his team down by 2 or 3 TDs and asked to come from behind and save the day.

so what are you tryin gto say , Because ramsey TD/INts ratio is better than peyton manning . Ramsey is better than Manning. what are you trying to prove, Please this is nonsense. Peyton Manning is 100 times better than ramsey. And your argument about how most of ramsey ints, where becuase he was a rookie, and his wr,s tips passes blah blah blah , you could make the same agument for manning or any QB that trys ints . That is a very very lame agument. How many games has Ramsey lost for get win, lost for us because of his ints. Let look at the times Ramsey throws his ints.

lets look at his career. That saints game in like 2003 i think he threw like 3 ints. in really bad times.

This year in the Giants game( i dont care if he started or not his an NFL qb he should be ready at all times) he threw an into in the red zone when we where about to score.

Next he just throws a punt 40 yards down the field like ganrder and coles are randy moss or TO and it gets pick up. Ramsey for some reason loves TO THROW THE BALL IN TO DOULBE COVAGE OR COCERAGE. why who knows if you look at the high light i showed you ,you will see this fact.

Oh well, Ramsey is the next Peyton Manning.

Yeah, we can all see that.

You can prove anything with statistics. I lkie to think Ramsey struggled at first with the new system, but as the season went on, he bought into JG's system and understood his role much more.

I came over last year and saw him play the Giants at FedEx. We all know his stats from that game (what a great one to pick!).

Ramsey earned the right to start this year. I see no reason why he can't buld on his progress from last year and be a very efficient QB.

CrazyLikeAFox87 wrote:You can prove anything with statistics. I lkie to think Ramsey struggled at first with the new system, but as the season went on, he bought into JG's system and understood his role much more.

I came over last year and saw him play the Giants at FedEx. We all know his stats from that game (what a great one to pick!).

Ramsey earned the right to start this year. I see no reason why he can't buld on his progress from last year and be a very efficient QB.

Garnder 87, but you can also make a point that that second giants game the giants had a ton of injures they where playing giants back ups. What abou tthat fact. the first time ramsey played the giants with the Giants starters he was terrible throwing 3 ints. You are right about the new system, and we wil see in 2005 season they real ramsey which is the ramsey from last year throwing 2 ints a game but you guys wil see. Tigers dont change there strips. Elephants are still big. And etc.

batman2k5 wrote:that second giants game the giants had a ton of injures they where playing giants back ups. What abou tthat fact. the first time ramsey played the giants with the Giants starters he was terrible throwing 3 ints.

you are contradicting yourself, batman. you say that ramsey's 2nd game vs. the giants doesn't count because he was playing against backups. yet you ignore the fact that in the 1st giants game, ramsey WAS a backup. i am tired to death of belaboring this point. you need to get over those two poor halves from the giants and cincinatti games. once ramsey was the starter and got the reps in practice, he threw the following number of interceptions in each game (chronologically):
1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1. if he were really as bad as you are making him out to be based on those two individual halves of games, he would have been throwing 4-6 INTs a game! so get your head out of your butt and start looking at the 7 games he actually started.

by the way, i am not saying ramsey is as good as manning or ever will be. i don't think ramsey is some tremendously amazing quarterback, or even a great quarterback. but he is good enough to help this team win, and he is going to keep getting better.

well my point is ramsey is not that good, we could use an upgrade at the qb, position and that is why gibbs drafted campbell.

its just liek if moss and patten suck his year , we go out and ger an up grade

batman2k5 wrote:well my point is ramsey is not that good, we could use an upgrade at the qb,[sic] position and that is why gibbs drafted campbell.

it[']s just liek[sic] if moss and patten suck [t]his year , we go out and ger[sic] an up grade[upgrade]

i see where you are coming from and understand your frustration. everyone feels that way a lot- if someone isn't great, replace him! go get someone better. but it's not that simple. that's the philosophy we've had for the past 4 or 5 years and we've gotten nowhere.

QBs take time to develop. ramsey currently has 23 starts under his belt- a little less than 1.5 seasons. appriopriately, he still plays like an immature QB sometimes. but he has also displayed flashes of considerable talent. maybe he will never amount to much, i'm not positive he will. but you simply have to take a chance and choose a young guy like that to go with or you will never develop a "franchise" QB.

die cowboys die wrote:

batman2k5 wrote:well my point is ramsey is not that good, we could use an upgrade at the qb,[sic] position and that is why gibbs drafted campbell.

it[']s just liek[sic] if moss and patten suck [t]his year , we go out and ger[sic] an up grade[upgrade]

i see where you are coming from and understand your frustration. everyone feels that way a lot- if someone isn't great, replace him! go get someone better. but it's not that simple. that's the philosophy we've had for the past 4 or 5 years and we've gotten nowhere.

QBs take time to develop. ramsey currently has 23 starts under his belt- a little less than 1.5 seasons.
appriopriately, he still plays like an immature QB sometimes. but he has also displayed flashes of considerable talent. maybe he will never amount to much, i'm not positive he will. but you simply have to take a chance and choose a young guy like that to go with or you will never develop a "franchise" QB.

so your telling me, that qb,s should be given more time, than other positions whatever. Every one here wants gardner out, why ramsey too, gardner played better than ramsey has. Why not throw both of them out. Why did the redskins tell gardner to go get a trade if they had no replacment. WHy why why whwy why , cause the redskins front office is run like a middle school class room , retards

batman2k5 wrote:so your telling me, that qb,s should be given more time, than other positions whatever. Every one here wants gardner out, why ramsey too, gardner played better than ramsey has. Why not throw both of them out. Why did the redskins tell gardner to go get a trade if they had no replacment. WHy why why whwy why , cause the redskins front office is run like a middle school class room , retards

I don't know if everyone here wants Gardner out... but Gardner wants out... what else matters? And Gibbs has stated that he will grant him his wish. Which part don't YOU get?

The Redskins didn't tell Gardner to go seek a trade, they told him that if he wanted to play elsewhere that he was free to pursue a trade himself... which he and his agent did... to no avail... because nobody wanted him at the price they were asking... so now the Redskins will cut him to save the cap room... any of this getting through to you?

why doesnt coles or gardner want to be here

why didnt champ bailey waht to stay ?

why did smoot leave?


dont worry let me answer this question they are tired of lossing. they dont want leave in their hearts. i was watching the nfl tv interview with fred smoot you can tell in his voice he would have liked to stay in DC but . after 5 , 6 years the lossing gets to you .The Redskins front office has to take the blame here .Every one wants to blame the players but what about the team front offiece, viiny? gibbs hsi the president. dan Synder they need to get the blame too. They are the ones who go out there and get this players. they got coles, gander, smoot, mark brunell, are u goign to blame brunell but yur not going to blame gibbs the guy that brought him here,no thats not fear. Thats like if two kids are playing with match sticks and burn down the house you only blame one kid and let the other kid go free.Thats not fear.

so if gibbs knew that coles wanted out and gardner wanted out ,WHY NOT DRAFT MIKE WILLIAMS, OR at draft a wr in the 4 round or something. NO That tells me that Gibbs most have thought he could change gardners mind to stay .But gibbs cant so gardner is gone, colesis gone,. knwo what

moss, patten, two guys that have never played in gibbs system

they u have jacobs, mccant who had a total of 30 catches together in 2004 and for some dumb ass reason gibbs doesnt waht to play mccants i dont know why ,

And Ramsey i dont know if he wants to get stats or he thinks ey is randy moss. If you looked at that second eagles game game losing int, theres no reason he shoul dhave thrown none.

I'd probably do better if I could understand more than 1/3 of that but I'll try answering it anyway...

I guess they didn't draft Mike Williams because they didn't want him... I wasn't in the war room, I couldn't tell you what was said or done. Perhaps they felt that they had the corps of receivers in Patten, Moss, Jacobs, McCants and Thrash that could successfully run this offense. It always makes me laugh when people expect Joe Gibbs to bring in the creme de la creme of NFL wide receivers... do you all forget that this is a rushing offense... a ball-control offense... an offense that is predicated on taking as many plays as possible to get to the end zone so as to run off the most amount of clock? Three and five yard gains are optimal... I understand that it's hard to look at last year's offense and see that type of ball control, but that doesn't mean that Joe is going to change his entire offensive philosophy. There will be some modernization, and some updates, but it isn't suddenly going to be a high flying offense.

This offense will be built around the success of Clinton portis, not one of the receivers.

Joe Gibbs would never try to get Gardner to play... it's the opposite of everything he's about... and you saying differently doesn't make it so. The fact is that Gardner doesn't want to be here, the Redskins would have loved to have got something for him in the draft, but now that they didn't, they're going to cut him to save the $2M they need for the rookie pool.

Just because Joe Gibbs didn't play Darnerien McCants last year, doesn't mean that he won't play him this year. Taylor Jacobs started getting a little more action last year and will likely be given even more of a shot this year.

I don't understand your Ramsey comment, but I didn't really understand half of them, I was just winging it.

As for a lack of success being the reasons players left, I'm sure it had something to do with it... but so did money... in both Smoot and Bailey's case. Bailey was gonna be gone long before joe gibbs came back... but pin that on him too if you like. Bailey got stupid money... ask Bronco fans if they think he's worth it after one season... GREAT decision by the front office to not match a $9m/year ransom.

Brunell sucked... Gibbs wanted him... that's a mistake... no arguments... what's the point... it isn't like Gibbs is going to never make a mistake. He'll mentor the young Qbs this year and likely be gone next year... a failed experiment. A waste of money... I know... so what... every team makes these mistakes... the idea is to make as few as possible.

And none of this has anything to do with jason Campbell... which is the thread's topic... you're taking things off on every tangent because none of them really wash. If you want to start discussing Gardner and Joe Gibbs and Dan Snyder ad nauseum... I suggest you try the search button and choose one of our archived threads where we've beat them all to death.

This is why he is the head of this board...he knows exactly what hes talking about

Good post there Boss. Hopefully Batman will understand now.

WHy why why whwy why , cause the redskins front office is run like a middle school class room , retards

Speaking of middle school classes, I think someone needs to go back to one. Maybe then that person can post something that's legible and understandable.

admin wrote:

batman2k5 wrote:so your telling me, that qb,s should be given more time, than other positions whatever. Every one here wants gardner out, why ramsey too, gardner played better than ramsey has. Why not throw both of them out. Why did the redskins tell gardner to go get a trade if they had no replacment. WHy why why whwy why , cause the redskins front office is run like a middle school class room , retards

I don't know if everyone here wants Gardner out... but Gardner wants out... what else matters? And Gibbs has stated that he will grant him his wish. Which part don't YOU get?

The Redskins didn't tell Gardner to go seek a trade, they told him that if he wanted to play elsewhere that he was free to pursue a trade himself... which he and his agent did... to no avail... because nobody wanted him at the price they were asking... so now the Redskins will cut him to save the cap room... any of this getting through to you?

I want Gardner OUT. Put him OUT to pasture. Send him to Detroit or some other cesspool team.

I am quite sure the vast majority of Skins fans want his decripid carcass elsewhere too.