The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

cvillehog wrote:Brandon,
You are wrong. Read up on the facts of Persistent Vegitative State.

By the way, that is persistent as in "not temporary."

Brandon777 wrote:

cvillehog wrote:Brandon,
You are wrong. Read up on the facts of Persistent Vegitative State.

By the way, that is persistent as in "not temporary."

Don't tell me I'm wrong. Are you an expert? No. You are not an expert. Last night a Doctor who may be winning the Nobel Prize said that Terry is not brain dead and could be rehabilitated. Now do I think Terry will ever be able to walk and talk like she did before she collapsed? Probably not. But nobody knows what the technology will be like in 15 years.

Please explain to me why Terry smiles when her mom kisses her? Please explain how Terry can follow an object with her eyes. Please explain to me why a different woman who was labelled a vegetable is now walking around and can talk now? She was on Hannity and Colmes last night. She said that while she was a "vegetable", she could hear doctors telling her husband that there was no hope and that she was completely brain dead. She said she was frustrated because she couldn't communicate and say "I'm still here". So please cville, don't try to justify an activist judge and a cold-hearted husband. Please don't justify starving someone to death. At least deathrow inmates are put to sleep, instead of dying a slow death.

cvillehog wrote:The smile reflex. This can be seen in very young babies who do not contain the awarness or motor skills to smile on purpose, but do smile as a reflex.

The tracking has been explained by her doctors as a "startle reflex" which I do not know much about at this point.

An activist judge? 50 times!

That doctor is an ideological hack, BTW, and is not very well respected. Yes, he was nominated for the nobel prize in medicine, but did not win.

Brandon777 wrote:

cvillehog wrote:The smile reflex. This can be seen in very young babies who do not contain the awarness or motor skills to smile on purpose, but do smile as a reflex.

So we should starve babies because they do not contain awareness? I find that BS BTW. Babies smile when they are happy and receiving attention and love from their parents, just like Terry.

The tracking has been explained by her doctors as a "startle reflex" which I do not know much about at this point.

That's obvious. Perhaps you should read up on it before you justify starving someone to death.

An activist judge? 50 times!

I don't think a judge should ever have a say in a case like this.

That doctor is an ideological hack, BTW, and is not very well respected. Yes, he was nominated for the nobel prize in medicine, but did not win.

According to who cville? You? He isn't very well respected, but has been nominated for a Nobel Prize? Whatever dude.

Redskin Don wrote:are the only people I know who hold a snail darter or a spotted owl or some other endangered creature in higher regard than a human being. They'll protest and chain themselves to trees over that, but human beings can be discarded with relative ease: Just find a whacko liberal judge or two.

... and oh by the way, for my democrat brethren who want to make this look like republicans are politicizing this issue, I believe the senate vote was unanimous in favor of the legislation? I guess that means a few democrats value human life too.

Redskin Don wrote:and people like you would starve her to death. That's the bottom line and you can do it with a clear conscience. I would say I find that incredible, but it's pretty much par for the course in light of previous posts you've made on this and other subjects.

BringThePain! wrote:funny how some of you are so worried about her starving to death... yet there are large numbers of children in the US & all around the world that have been starving for years.... and they probably feel it 100 times more than she ever will....

So what charity organization do you guys run that I can donate my money to all those starving children?

But, she was clearly miserable, and it wasn't her wish to live that way.

Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:

"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that [expletive] gonna die?'"

Redskin Don wrote:

But, she was clearly miserable, and it wasn't her wish to live that way.

I truly and honestly do sympathize with you regarding your grandmother. It is horrible to have to watch, I'm sure. However, how can you say, with absolute certainty, that she (Terry Schiavo) didn't want to live? Personally, I would agree with you in that she wouldn't want to live in her current state, but lacking any evidence to the contrary, I oppose the decision to remove the feeding tube.

BringThePain! wrote:funny how some of you are so worried about her starving to death... yet there are large numbers of children in the US & all around the world that have been starving for years.... and they probably feel it 100 times more than she ever will....

So what charity organization do you guys run that I can donate my money to all those starving children?

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I heard an interesting factoid yesterday, as they discussed this topic on a Christian radio broadcast. In the State of Florida, if you stop feeding/nourishing a dog for the same amount of time that Terri Schiavo will be starved to death, you face imprisonment and a $60K fine. FOR A DOG!!!!

Another interesting tidbit... Mrs. Schiavo has been in hospice care for 15 yrs. Hospice is supposed to be for those patients that are waiting for death (in terms of days or months, not years). Terri could have received some sort of rehab in the last 15 yrs., but this, of course was not allowed.

Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:

"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that [expletive] gonna die?'"

Not sure it's THE most credible source, but here's the link anyway.

Also, it might not be so easy for Michael Schiavo to divorce his wife. If he is nearly as devout a Catholic as his wife is, then he would have issues reconciling his faith with his actions. If he wishes for his second marriage to be "blessed" by "the Church", there is no way he can do that while his wife lives.

As someone stated earlier, there may be religious factors we are not aware of here, both on Terri's side (obviously) and her "husband's".

I can't say she didn't want to live this way.

You can't say she did want to live this way.

Redskin Don wrote:

But, she was clearly miserable, and it wasn't her wish to live that way.

I truly and honestly do sympathize with you regarding your grandmother. It is horrible to have to watch, I'm sure. However, how can you say, with absolute certainty, that she (Terry Schiavo) doesn't want to live? Personally, I would agree with you in that she wouldn't want to live in her current state, but lacking any evidence to the contrary, I oppose the decision to remove the feeding tube.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

BringThePain! wrote:funny how some of you are so worried about her starving to death... yet there are large numbers of children in the US & all around the world that have been starving for years.... and they probably feel it 100 times more than she ever will....

So what charity organization do you guys run that I can donate my money to all those starving children?

C'mon, BTP! That isn't the issue at hand. I'm sure you'd get as many posts in a thread about "Children going hungry in the US". This is about Mrs. Schiavo's right to live.

Redskin Don wrote:I know nothing about the "Sun Hudson" case to which you refer so I can't comment at all.

Redskin Don wrote:

I can't say she didn't want to live this way.

You can't say she did want to live this way.

You're right, I can't. I'd like to think that if we, as a country, however, had to go one way or the other, we'd go with "life" and not death every time though in cases such as this. No doctor, no judge, no one can speak for Terry Shiavo with absolute certainty so let's torture her to death. That's what it amounts to. This is NOT merciful in any way, shape, or form.

cvillehog wrote:

NikiH wrote:cville can I remind you that several medical conditions were once thought incureable or irreversable. How would you feel if you made this decision and then next week they figured out that brain damage can be reversed using stem cells or something similar. I think her parents are holding out hope. And that's what parents are supposed to do.

Are you aware that the majority of her cerebral cortext has been replaced by spinal fluid?

Are you saying that sometime soon the technology will be available to regenerate brain tissue?

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Redskin Don wrote:

But, she was clearly miserable, and it wasn't her wish to live that way.

I truly and honestly do sympathize with you regarding your grandmother. It is horrible to have to watch, I'm sure. However, how can you say, with absolute certainty, that she (Terry Schiavo) doesn't want to live? Personally, I would agree with you in that she wouldn't want to live in her current state, but lacking any evidence to the contrary, I oppose the decision to remove the feeding tube.

I just thought of something...

How can Mr. Schiavo be so sure that his wife did not change her mind, as she felt death approach when her heart stopped?

Could not have subsequent and adequate therapy perhaps restored her ability to speak or write? Could she not have revealed later on her will to live? Can we honestly say she would prefer to die than to experience the joy of seeing her parents care for her in her weakened state?

Despite the 50 rulings...

Perhaps Terri's changed her mind. A lot of folks, after a brush with death, realize that their proud affirmations of "pulling the plug if necessary" is not what they want. Unfortunately, Terri hasn't had the ability to express that, nor has she been afforded the opportunity to rehabilitate herself to the point where she could.

NikiH wrote:

cvillehog wrote:

NikiH wrote:cville can I remind you that several medical conditions were once thought incureable or irreversable. How would you feel if you made this decision and then next week they figured out that brain damage can be reversed using stem cells or something similar. I think her parents are holding out hope. And that's what parents are supposed to do.

Are you aware that the majority of her cerebral cortext has been replaced by spinal fluid?

Are you saying that sometime soon the technology will be available to regenerate brain tissue?

cville do some research about what they can do with stem cells and you tell me. It's been thought that it can regenerate tissue among other things.

Brandon777 wrote:According to who cville? You? He isn't very well respected, but has been nominated for a Nobel Prize? Whatever dude.

In February 2003, the Florida Board of Medicine ruled that he violated state law by charging a patient for services that were not provided (Finding of Fact No. 71, PDF p. 32). The board fined Hammesfahr $2,000, placed him on probation for six months, and ordered him to pay approximately $52,000 in administrative costs and to perform 100 hours of community service. While the board also ruled that Hammesfahr's treatment of stroke patients, using a procedure he has claimed could help Terri Schiavo, was "not within the generally accepted standard of care" (Finding of Fact No. 55, PDF p. 33), it declined to rule that the treatment was harmful to his patients and noted that some patients improved after treatment.

cvillehog wrote:In the time periond since Congress went all-stop to address this issue (and President Bush flew back from vacation to sign this bill), more than 200 people have died from a lack of suffcient health care.

NikiH wrote:cville do some research about what they can do with stem cells and you tell me. It's been thought that it can regenerate tissue among other things.