The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

EasyMoney wrote:Primetime, If you had to analyze both situations and rate both of them on a scale of 1-10 on how "me, me, me" they were. Which would you rate higher?

Which one would I rate higher?

Once again, that depends on how you look at it.

One is "I want my money"

Another is "I'm not happy with this offense, yada, yada, yada..."

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

Seeing as how he had two years left on the deal? No.

But all players who have become stars in the midst of a contract have done that.

Threaten to hold out. Yep.

Hey, he was a second round pick. Coles was a third rounder.

But Coles at least got his payday when he was supposed to.

I see what you're trying to say, but bottom line, both players forced their way out of a team.

They didn't have the "right" to leave, but they did.

See what I mean now?

Primetime42 wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

Seeing as how he had two years left on the deal? No.

But all players who have become stars in the midst of a contract have done that.

Threaten to hold out. Yep.

Hey, he was a second round pick. Coles was a third rounder.

But Coles at least got his payday when he was supposed to.

I see what you're trying to say, but bottom line, both players forced their way out of a team.

They didn't have the "right" to leave, but they did.

See what I mean now?

Ok, so it was two years remaining on his contract. My fault. But my point still holds. He was performing in the top 10 for RB's statistically and was getting paid far less than what he was worth. That was his reason for leaving.

Coles' reason for leaving was because he didn't believe in Gibbs and his stats declined because it was no longer a throw only offensive philosophy. He also stated that the turnover and running around within the team didn't sit well with him. Something along those lines. I never heard Portis badmouth Denver on his way out. But his statements alone let me know he's had bad intentions for a while. Where is the turnover anywhere on the team this offseason? It's not the owner, coaches and most players... What team doesn't run around crazy in the offseason?

Different attitude, different contract situation, different position, different parting words. Different.

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

Seeing as how he had two years left on the deal? No.

But all players who have become stars in the midst of a contract have done that.

Threaten to hold out. Yep.

Hey, he was a second round pick. Coles was a third rounder.

But Coles at least got his payday when he was supposed to.

I see what you're trying to say, but bottom line, both players forced their way out of a team.

They didn't have the "right" to leave, but they did.

See what I mean now?

Ok, so it was two years remaining on his contract. My fault. But my point still holds. He was performing in the top 10 for RB's statistically and was getting paid far less than what he was worth. That was his reason for leaving.

Coles' reason for leaving was because he didn't believe in Gibbs and his stats declined because it was no longer a throw only offensive philosophy. He also stated that the turnover and running around within the team didn't sit well with him. Something along those lines. I never heard Portis badmouth Denver on his way out. But his statements alone let me know he's had bad intentions for a while. Where is the turnover anywhere on the team this offseason? It's not the owner, coaches and most players... What team doesn't run around crazy in the offseason?

Different attitude, different contract situation, different position, different parting words. Different.

I'm actually liking this conversation, cuz it's a good question of ethics

I do understand completely what you're saying. And your right. Portis, although looking for that cash, handled his situation better than Coles did.

But he wanted the same thing.

You hardly ever hear about a guy respectfully saying "I wish to go somewhere else. Can you guys help me out?" The only situation that really comes to mind is Jerry Rice in Oakland and certain situations where a guy is allowed to be cut.

I understand Coles did it in a worse way.

But the bottom line is...?

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:I don't think that anyone could expect too much better of a player that asked to be traded while still under contract. I'm not mad for anything that he said (at least, in this article. . .haven't read all of his press releases). He's gotta get some hype up for his return, and the best way to do that when returning to a team is to talk down your time away. "Boy, I sure did miss it here. . .it was a hell-hole down there. . .let's just forget the past few years and get back to what we had going before."

Gibbs praised him all the way out the door because that is what good coaches do. Coles has to explain to the NY fans that he really didn't have it so good in Washington, or else he'll look like he's all about the money.

He played hard for us, I respect him. Don't like what he said particularly, but that doesn't matter anymore because he's not a Redskin. When we've got a trophy in the next few years (fingers crossed), maybe he'll wish that he stayed here. In the meantime, good luck in NY, Coles. . .you're going to need it. . .

And welcome, Moss!

Thank you good sir

My thoughts exactly...

Hogfather wrote:

hkHog wrote:

Great Natale wrote:What a jerk. Well at least he's gone. I really hope that toe is a serious problem for him and the Jets. Yes sir that'll make my day

Well, I hope that it's at least good enough to pass the physical!

Yes, or he might be eating Crow again! :-&

You mean like the first time when he said the skins were better???

guys like that, no matter how good, are a cancer. They mess up the team morale, and chemistry. Imagine Troy Brown, David Patten, Hines Ward, or Deion Branck saying something like that. Wouldn't happen, and that's why they are on winning teams. Look at the other good, but selfish guys...Randy Moss, Joe Horn..guys with great talent and no team mentality. Let's revive the POSSE..yeah baby...Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders...both under 5 foot 10. Art Monk 6'2 route runner...lets pick up a solid route runner willing to win games as a Team , and send Coles a postcard from the SuperBowl..

It makes me realize a few things number 1, I'm glad we didn't get Randy Moss, character counts and if Coles was bad, imagine how bad Randy would have been with out the "Randy Ratio" Number 2, I'm really glad we got David Patten, this is a Gibbs type of guy who busts his hump every Sunday and who, along with Thrash will really help this WR Corps get some maturity I eman if you had to look up to Coles and 50/50 for leadership or Patten and Thrash, who rather listen too? Finally, Coles was never a deep threat under Gibbs and he dropped a lot of catchable passes, week three against the Cowpukes I remember yealling everytime the ball was thrown to Coles, and he dropped it, and bear in mind Brunell was actually hitting these throws. So welcome to the 'Skins Santana and Laverneus (and any other malcontent) don't let the door hit you on the way out

Coles can stay there and break all his toes.....what a loser

Primetime42 wrote:Again, I don't see much of a difference between what Coles did and what Clinton Portis did this time last year.

The difference is that Clinton wasn't bad mouthing the coaches. He was just saying I need to get paid. He also didn't demand a trade. He just wanted to get paid. He also wasn't screwing his teams cap by wanting off the team knowing what kinda cap hit they'd take. He didn't tell them to cut him.

Coles was doing all these things, and then on top of it, he goes and badmouths the team when we go out of OUR way to accomodate him?

How can you not see the difference? Sure, neither one was all that loyal to their current team, but we paid Coles a lot of money to be here. Clinton wasn't making jack and wasn't demanding to be cut.

We also gave up a 1st round pick to get him and are still going to pay his bonus. That's just downright scandalous. Clinton didn't want off his team, he just wanted to get paid. The Broncos were the ones that said they'd rather trade him for Champ then pay him or deal with him. Coles said I don't like it here and I don't wanna play for you guys. If you think this had anything to do with the offense, your crazy. He caught 90 friggin balls. If he was as good as he thought he was, he would have gotten more yards on those hitches. Joe Gibbs is an offensive mastermind. He will fix the downfield game. This was totally about him not wanting surgery and greed.

I don't even care about most of it. But, to go and badmouth the team that gave you your payday, and then went out of their way to get you to a team you wanted to go to and costs themselves dearly in the process just pisses me off.

90% of the players in this league are smart enough to know, all you need to say is that things weren't working out and your happy to be back with the Jets. Apparently Coles aint that smart. I've totally lost respect for the guy, and I could care less what he does from here on out.

Primetime42 wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:Portis ran back to back 1,500 yard seasons and was getting paid like Ladell Betts. He went to the PB his second year and felt he deserved more money. I think we all would too. Coles was ALREADY getting paid, Portis on the other hand was not. HUGE difference.

He was gonna get more money regardless of where he played.

He just knew he'd get more in Washington, as did anyone else.

And he turned on his team.

At least Coles turned on his team because of the playcalling instead of the extra 2 or 3 million.

again, bad arguement. Portis didn't turn on his team. He wanted an extension. The BRONCOS were the ones that decided to trade him. He didn't request a trade. And Coles turned on his team because they wanted the player they paid. He didn't want surgery, so he went this route.

While I usually respect your opinion Primetime, I think your way off on this comparison. I'm so angry with Coles. Total lack of respect from him, while I thought we treated him pretty well. He got hurt and is NOT the player he was when we signed him. He's still very good, but not as good. He didn't quite get his way(being cut), but still went someplace he likes, gets to keep his entire bonus from us AND will get a bonus from the Jets. In this situation, what kinda person bashes the old team? He screwed us and he's bashing us? If anyone should be bashing anyone, WE should be bashing him. And that's what I plan on doing the rest of his career.

We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

Primetime42 wrote:We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

Now they are gonna ramble on about what Moss is gonann do for them and how he won't cost much because "it's not my money"

Ive seen this before....chump bailey anyone?

SirSmizzy wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

Now they are gonna ramble on about what Moss is gonann do for them and how he won't cost much because "it's not my money"

Ive seen this before....chump bailey anyone?

For the record Smizz, I'm not trying to hijack the thread here. I just pointed out a similarity, that's all.

I'm not saying Portis is a bad person, cuz I happen to think he's a great guy (You know, for a 'Cane), but the reasoning behind a lot of the Coles bashing is because he forced his way out, but then Portis forced his way out also.

Just my view.

Primetime42 wrote:We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

fair enough primetime, but let me just add that he didn't do this to the Jets. He didn't have the contract to make the Jets take a huge cap hit. As far as what he said, he did say bad things about Herm I believe. You got me on that one. I suppose you never really think about what the player is doing to the team he's leaving. I also didn't know he was the one involved in that college scandal until this all came out and somebody posted it...We shoulda known when he talked smack about Herm, but at that point we had already aquired him probably. Either way, I'm glad to be rid of him. Low character guys don't fit here anymore.

It's funny too. I read an article somebody posted here that was written about him after his first season. He was so humble back then. He wasn't much in college and never thought of himself as great. Things sure do change fast lol...

SirSmizzy wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

Now they are gonna ramble on about what Moss is gonann do for them and how he won't cost much because "it's not my money"

Ive seen this before....chump bailey anyone?

too bad Smizzy. You've been doing so well lately too

I sure am glad you guys are the ones we traded with. Not that you had a shot at the superbowl anyway, but Coles is gonna make it impossible now, much like Moss did to the vikings. Bad character guys ruin team chemistry. Good luck with broketoe

You are too predictable. Now Coles was the reason you have stunk up the NFC for the last 7 or 8 years?

SirSmizzy wrote:You are too predictable. Now Coles was the reason you have stunk up the NFC for the last 7 or 8 years?

I never said that, but thanks for speaking for me

I meant last season his growing attitude probably didn't help. Now that we know what kind of guy he is, I imagine their was a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than we'll ever know. And knowing about him now, I'm extremely happy to get him outta Fedex.

You started in, so I finished it, that's all.

Primetime42 wrote:

SirSmizzy wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:We've touched base on this already Scott. Obviously now, nothing is gonna change your opinion on the matter, and I'm not trying to.

ONE MORE TIME...

The situation is different but the result is the same.

And please find me a statement where Coles is "bad mouthing" the coaching staff?

Two years ago when he did this to the Jets, you guys could care less. All you could do was sing his praises and ramble on about what he was gonna do for you.

Now they are gonna ramble on about what Moss is gonann do for them and how he won't cost much because "it's not my money"

Ive seen this before....chump bailey anyone?

For the record Smizz, I'm not trying to hijack the thread here. I just pointed out a similarity, that's all.

I'm not saying Portis is a bad person, cuz I happen to think he's a great guy (You know, for a 'Cane), but the reasoning behind a lot of the Coles bashing is because he forced his way out, but then Portis forced his way out also.

Just my view.

Portis did not force his way out. He wanted out, but he did not make it difficult on either team. Do you remember how quickly and smoothly that trade went? The Coles/Moss has been a soap opera, because of Coles being greedy, unreasonable, and running his mouth about a team that treated him well and paid him very, very well.

Scottskins wrote:wow, to think I was actually feeling bad about this trade. Thank god Gibbs saw Coles for what he is. C-A-N-C-E-R CANCER CANCER CANCER!!!

This goes to show you that Gibbs knows what he's doing. He knew there was a problem on the team and he quickly removed that problem. Good foresight Joe.

One play that always sticks to my mind about Coles was his first game here. He catches his first 40 yard bomb (with the Redskins) and gets pushed out of bounds at the Jets sideline. He spikes the ball, looks at Herm, then punches his chest a few times.

You can have that guy back Herm. Thanks for Moss!

Primetime42 wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

Seeing as how he had two years left on the deal? No.

But all players who have become stars in the midst of a contract have done that.

Threaten to hold out. Yep.

Hey, he was a second round pick. Coles was a third rounder.

But Coles at least got his payday when he was supposed to.

I see what you're trying to say, but bottom line, both players forced their way out of a team.

They didn't have the "right" to leave, but they did.

See what I mean now?

And Emmit Smith never held out for a bigger deal when he was under contract did he? Portis only threatened to hold out, he never actually did.

SirSmizzy wrote:You are too predictable. Now Coles was the reason you have stunk up the NFC for the last 7 or 8 years?

No, but malcontents like him are. Can you say Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Michael Westbrook. I'm not blaming anyone but the Redskins for those signings, but bad team chemistry will kill your chances at success every time.

JSPB22 wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:
So just because it's a rookie contract means you shouldn't have to honor it?

Ok.

So I guess instant superstars never ask for more money before the final year of their contract? A star running back none the less? Do you see the difference yet? I can give you plenty of examples if you'd like.

Seeing as how he had two years left on the deal? No.

But all players who have become stars in the midst of a contract have done that.

Threaten to hold out. Yep.

Hey, he was a second round pick. Coles was a third rounder.

But Coles at least got his payday when he was supposed to.

I see what you're trying to say, but bottom line, both players forced their way out of a team.

They didn't have the "right" to leave, but they did.

See what I mean now?

And Emmit Smith never held out for a bigger deal when he was under contract did he? Portis only threatened to hold out, he never actually did.

Emmitt Smith had won a rushing title and a Super Bowl by that time, plus going to another team was never an option for him.

Besides I said most players go that route anyway and when it comes down to it, if one does it, they all will.

It's all about the bling.

Scott, good point about never thinking about it when the guy's on your team. That's part of being a fan; short-term memory . We've all suffered from it from time to time. That's why a few years back I decided every new Cowboy would have a background check before I decide whether or not to root for him. About 90% of the time, it's worked (I flopped on Marcellus Wiley )