Skins in talks with Minnesota to deal Gardner...

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:15 pm

fredp45 wrote:redskincity --

I'm sick of reading that he drops 1/2 his passes. I'm prone to exaggeration too but this is crazy. Coles dropped as many passes as Gardner this past year.

Gardner is NOT a bad WR...

....Well what reasons are Joe Gibbs and company saying bye..bye to 50/50?

It has to be for what we witnessed week after week.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:20 pm

BringThePain! wrote:
fredp45 wrote:redskincity --

I'm sick of reading that he drops 1/2 his passes. I'm prone to exaggeration too but this is crazy. Coles dropped as many passes as Gardner this past year.

Gardner is NOT a bad WR...

I posted these stats from before the last game of the season at Minnesota...

Coles: 94 passes hit him in the hands, he dropped 7 = 1 drop every 13 passes that hit him in the hands
Gardner: 59 passes hit him in the hands, he dropped 9 = 1 drop every 6 passes that hit him in the hands
Thrash: 12 passes hit him in the hands, he dropped 1 = 1 drop every 12 passes that hit him in the hands
Jacobs: 13 passes hit him in the hands, he dropped 1 = 1 drop every 13 passes that hit him in the hands
McCants: 5 passes hit him in the hands, he dropped 0

not to much one can say otherwise... he's atleast dropping them half more that the rest of the WR core...

I thought I saw something like this posted before. I think I saw it posted two years in a row. :oops:

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:33 pm

59/68 = 87% You're right -- it's almost 50%...

My bad...

ChiliPalmer · Post by **ChiliPalmer** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:50 pm

Keep him and make him the QB. His passing percentage is great. And all the other good QB's in the league are his size.

BossHog wrote:yeah we all loved Gardner

That's why THE BEST line at training camp LAST YEAR was from our own DEHog's mouth:

Hey guys, I just tried to get Gardner's autograph...

... but he kept dropping the pen.

... it's still funny to me.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:57 pm

ChiliPalmer wrote:Keep him and make him the QB. His passing percentage is great. And all the other good QB's in the league are his size.

BossHog wrote:yeah we all loved Gardner

That's why THE BEST line at training camp LAST YEAR was from our own DEHog's mouth:

Hey guys, I just tried to get Gardner's autograph...

Gardner is not as bad as everyone thinks, and I have talked to an Eagles and Stealers fan and they both want him! Here is how he stacks up to the rest of the league. By the way percentage whise D. Patten and S. Moss were about the same or worse as far as dropped balls.

NFL Leaders in Passes Dropped (Thru games of Jan. 2, 2005)

Rank Player Team Drops - Drops/trgt - Drops/ctch - QB/missed
1 Chad Johnson Cin 14 8.2% 14.7% 35.9%
2t Donald Driver GB 11 8.0% 13.1% 30.7%
2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11 7.0% 12.7% 37.2%
4t Keary Colbert Car 10 10.9% 21.3% 38.0%
4t Az-Zahir Hakim Det 10 17.5% 32.3% 28.0%
4t Koren Robinson Sea 10 14.9% 32.2% 38.8%
4t Jimmy Smith Jac 10 7.3% 13.5% 38.7%
4t Fred Taylor Jac 10 27.8%
9t Rod Gardner Was 9 8.5% 17.6% 43.4%
9t Randy McMichael Mia 9
11t Isaac Bruce StL 8 5.4% 9.0% 34.5%
11t Antonio Bryant Cle 8 8.1% 13.8% 33.3%
11t Eddie Kennison KC 8 7.5% 12.9% 34.0%
11t David Patten NE 8 8.4% 18.2% 45.3%
11t Jerry Porter Oak 8 5.9% 12.4% 47.1%
16t Tiki Barber NYG 7
16t Drew Bennett Ten 7 4.9% 8.8% 39.6%
16t Laveranues Coles Was 7 4.2% 7.8% 42.3%
16t Troy Edwards Jac 7 8.8% 14.0% 28.8%
16t Joe Horn NO 7 4.6% 7.4% 34.0%
16t Kevin Jones Det 7
16t Santana Moss NYJ 7 9.0% 15.6% 33.3%
16t Eric Moulds Buf 7 4.6% 8.0% 36.8%
16t Terrell Owens Phi 7 5.5% 9.1% 33.8%
16t Jeb Putzier Den 7
16t Jeremy Shockey NYG 7
16t Roy Williams Det 7

... but he kept dropping the pen.

... it's still funny to me.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:57 pm

fredp45 wrote:59/68 = 87% You're right -- it's almost 50%...

My bad...

Actually math wiz... your equation should be 50/59... since I said he had 59 hit him in the hands and he dropped 9..

so in your scientific experiment, you should have done.. 50/59 = 85% which your theory of fredism is correct that it's not close to 50%... but if you compare that to let's say... Coles... 87/94 = 93%... you'll have to excuse those of us who expect more coming from a first round pick, compared to a third round pick...

sorry if 50/50 offends you.. but the name will be stuck on him throughout all Redskin lore, so you're probably going to just have to live with it....

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:09 pm

...Well Gibbs aint getting rid of him because he can catch and run precise routes. :wink:

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:11 pm

sorry -- my bad pain...

by the way, it wasn't a scientific experiment...it was a math equation guy...

ever hear the expression -- stats can lie? Maybe someone could put together a clip of the 9 drops...I'd like to see them...were 7 of them at his feet and he got his hands on them so therefore, he "dropped" it? Was he getting clobbered because Brunnel threw up a duck?

While he's caught passes from Ramsey, and I like him and think he has a very nice arm...how about the other QBs that we've had since Gardner got here...real strong arm guys... Danny Worthless, Matthews, Brunnel, Banks, OK George was here too and he had a powerful arm, oh yeah, Graham -- not a stellar list of QBs to catch passes from...ehhh?

I'm still not convinced Gardner is the problem...I'd keep him and let him play one more year with Ramsey. He's due to make 2.5 mil or so, his contract is up after this year...

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:31 pm

fredp45 wrote:sorry -- my bad pain...

by the way, it wasn't a scientific experiment...it was a math equation guy...

hey... you're the one who started the wise guy attitude.. I was just playing along....

fredp45 wrote:ever hear the expression -- stats can lie? Maybe someone could put together a clip of the 9 drops...I'd like to see them...were 7 of them at his feet and he got his hands on them so therefore, he "dropped" it? Was he getting clobbered because Brunnel threw up a duck?

I don't think anybody is gonna go find his 9 drops on video and put it together for you... I, and I assure you others, have watched Gardner, and have gotten fraustrated with him over the years...more than anyone else on the team.... do you think all of us consensually got together and decided we we're gonna pick on Gardner? No... it's because we've all watched him and we've all grown tired of him never being consistent with his catches... especially the EASY ones....

fredp45 wrote:While he's caught passes from Ramsey, and I like him and think he has a very nice arm...how about the other QBs that we've had since Gardner got here...real strong arm guys... Danny Worthless, Matthews, Brunnel, Banks, OK George was here too and he had a powerful arm, oh yeah, Graham -- not a stellar list of QBs to catch passes from...ehhh?

How did he do it at Clemson?... oh yeah.. he had all Pro NFL QB Woodrow Dantzler throwing to him.... duh!

fredp45 wrote:I'm still not convinced Gardner is the problem...I'd keep him and let him play one more year with Ramsey. He's due to make 2.5 mil or so, his contract is up after this year...

thank god Gibbs is running the show..

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:50 pm

Come on Pain,

A guy can be a good college QB but not a good pro QB, there are so many examples I could clog this server if I named them all. I won't bore you with that list but will name one -- Danny Woe- full.

Do you honestly think Gardner has had good Pro QBs throwing to him since he came to the Skins?

With respect to Gibbs running the show -- I agree -- Thank God! [/b]

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:56 pm

On that same note... there are good college wide recievers who are not good at the pro level... it's my opinion and I assume others, who believe Gardner falls under that catagory....

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:11 pm

I visited our viking fans over on the F2FA... there not crazy about trading for Gardner at all... saying they only want to give up a 4th or a 5th for him, if that..

can't say I blame them... :lol:

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:37 pm

[quote="redskincity]How can you defend a poor Receiver such as Gardner?

He runs lazy routes, drops more than 50% of passes thrown at him and does a horrible job of run blocking.

The only thing he does right is throw awesome parties. :roll:

[/quote]

That's the main reason I want to see him go. I think he's a total distraction to the team. He's either throwing crazy parties or going clubbing and getting his car stolen.

The highlight reel of his drops would be extremely boring to watch as well. Just imagine him wide open on third and long and having a perfect pass thrown to him right in the numbers and then him dropping it. Than repeat that mental image eight more times. He doesn't drop the hard catches, only the easy ones.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:41 pm

what about Rod Gardner, Ladell Betts and the #9 pick to the Vikings for the #7 pick and Jim Kleinsasser....

Oh man, that would be awesome... Kleinsasser as the TE/FB and Cool

ey as the H-back, what an incredible force! So much versatility ::drool::

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:48 pm

Kleinsasser is coming off a knee injury... Ugh... scary...

and I don't think Minnesota needs another RB...

don't think that's gonna work.....

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:17 am

fredp45 wrote:redskincity --

I'm sick of reading that he drops 1/2 his passes. I'm prone to exaggeration too but this is crazy. Coles dropped as many passes as Gardner this past year.

Gardner is NOT a bad WR...

Now that's just crazy talk. I watched every single reskins game and Gardner dropped far more balls than Coles did. Coles only had a problem dropping balls in like 3 games when his finger was banged up. Gardner on the other hand only had 3 games where he DIDN'T have a problem catching the ball. Rod drops catchable passes and makes great catches(with much less regularity). I'd rather have a guy that makes all the catches he's supposed to and apparently Gibbs agrees...

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:21 am

BringThePain! wrote:Kleinsasser is coming off a knee injury... Ugh... scary...

and I don't think Minnesota needs another RB...

don't think that's gonna work.....

and we aint giving up Betts either...

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:26 am

BringThePain! wrote:
fredp45 wrote:59/68 = 87% You're right -- it's almost 50%...

My bad...

Actually math wiz... your equation should be 50/59... since I said he had 59 hit him in the hands and he dropped 9..

so in your scientific experiment, you should have done.. 50/59 = 85% which your theory of fredism is correct that it's not close to 50%... but if you compare that to let's say... Coles... 87/94 = 93%... you'll have to excuse those of us who expect more coming from a first round pick, compared to a third round pick...

sorry if 50/50 offends you.. but the name will be stuck on him throughout all Redskin lore, so you're probably going to just have to live with it....

Add to that, the fact that your only talking about throws that hit him in the hands. He dropped a lot more that weren't great throws(to the hands), but we easily catchable by most WRs....

Coles would also have been better if not for the messed up finger. That cost us at least one game. How many games you think Rod cost us?

That's the problem with 50/50. He doesn't drop the hard catches, he drops the easy ones. The ones that kill a drive cause he dropped the ball that was thrown well within reach on 3rd and 6.

I'd like to see these same stats on the rookie Cool

ey. I bet his percentage would be almost pefect. I only saw him drop one pass the whole season....

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:14 am

Scottskins wrote:[you're] only talking about throws that hit him in the hands. He dropped a lot more that weren't great throws(to the hands), but we easily catchable by most WRs....

yes!

the other thing i would like to point out is how HORRBLE he is at deep routes. almost every single time we throw deep to him he under-runs the ball. ramsey puts it up perfectly, gardner would catch it over his shoulder in stride. but he starts to hold up (clearly he is terrible at judging the ball in the air), then realizes it's going farther than he thought, and makes a half-*butted* attempt to get back in gear and go get it.

if you included all of the various passes he SHOULD get but simply misjudges, his true numbers would move much closer to 50/50 (though obviously that name is an exaggeration).

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:33 pm

Again, if he was worth a thin dime, he'd be staying. There must be some sort of nonchalance on Hands o' Stone's part that has Joe thinking he's not gonna get anything more from Rod than he already has.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Hey TC! Is a "thin dime" worth more than 2 bad hands or is that 3 of a kind? Maybe Rod will "catch on" in MN but that may be wishful thinking! see ya!

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:21 pm

Nothing new but here's a link
http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5275717.html

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:36 pm

Think about this...were arguing about a NFL WR catching the ball?? We’re not talking about speed, route running or blocking. The one thing you EXPECT from a NFL WR is that he catches the ball!!

Oh and on the autograph front...Rod did give my son an autograph where my son handed him the pen through the fence and Rod got it!! True to form he make the tough plays!!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:24 pm

DEHog wrote:Think about this... The one thing you EXPECT from a NFL WR is that he catches the ball!!

You're right DEHog!.. That AND complain about something! catches, game plan, money...everything!

IMO these guys seem to complain more than any other position in the NFL!

Cooley47 · Post by **Cooley47** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:42 pm

let's get a pick....maybe a 3-4