Moss coming to Redskins afterall!?!

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:09 pm

Ok wait why is that a bad thing oafus. Mind you I'm not a football expert by any means but to me that says Moss averages somewhere over 18 yards a reception where Cole's is just over 10 yards a reception. That should be a good thing? We were missing the long yardage plays last year. Maybe Moss will be able to add that??

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:12 pm

Oafusp: Perhaps you should reread the article slowly.

However, sources said the Jets will not agree to a deal that includes the assumption of the bonus, and that for the trade to go through Washington would have to pay the remaining sum. They also said the Redskins seem willing to pay it.

That's from the sportsline article.

It clearly says that Jets will not pay any of the bonus and the Skins are willing to absorb the full cap hit. Is there another article that states otherwise?

gregory smith · Post by **gregory smith** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:14 pm

According to Pastarelli the Jets say they will not pay the $5M bonus. If they stand firm on that issue and it costs us major money to trade him I see no real benefit for the Redskins. We lost the 13th pick in the draft for this guy, now we take the cap hit and trade him for a player who is already causing waves over his contract and is clearly a lesser player. I think we should play hardball with Coles, if he wants to go to the Jets make him waive the bonus, if he doesn't agree make him play for us. If he becomes a locker-room cancer, let him rot on the bench. I'd rather let him rot and pay him than let him dictate to us after the investment we made. Make an example of him.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:18 pm

gregory smith wrote:According to Pastarelli the Jets say they will not pay the $5M bonus.

Of course Pastabelly would not want to report good news for the Skins.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:21 pm

Skeletor wrote:Oafusp: Perhaps you should reread the article slowly.

However, sources said the Jets will not agree to a deal that includes the assumption of the bonus, and that for the trade to go through Washington would have to pay the remaining sum. They also said the Redskins seem willing to pay it.

That's from the sportsline article.

It clearly says that Jets will not pay any of the bonus and the Skins are willing to absorb the full cap hit. Is there another article that states otherwise?

That is the updated article...the original release from SportsLine stated the bonus would be paid by the Jets....the thread has now been updated. Thanks.

lamont_jordan_rules · Post by **lamont_jordan_rules** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:25 pm

...hey fellas, big ny jets fan here ...

...gotta say that we've been going back and forth over the deal in terms of is it worth it or not...

... our concerns are mostly related to how coles has performed with the toe injury ... do you all feel that coles drop in production this past season was more gibbs run oriented / smashmouth - counter-trey offensive philosophy, or more related to coles not being able to do what he was able to before the injury?

... of course we also were hoping to have you all foot the $5 million dollar bill, but it seems that the jets would pick that up on the most recent news updates...

... we feel that after this season we would not be able to afford to keep moss, so if coles is locked in for a couple seasons that would be beneficial to us...

... moss is a solid receiver in the old skin smurf mold ... blazing speed ... good hands ... will make a lot of mid to deep catches for you guys ... he is not the greatest over the middle, most likely due to his frame and will dive down or out of bounds to avoid hits if he can.

also he will be a decent punt returner, but not as good as chad morton ... his speed lets him bust one if he gets any gap, but he has a habit of much east-west running that can get frustrating at times

... the trade, if it happens, seems to have plus's and minus's for both sides ... which often indicates a pretty fair trade...

...interested in how you all feel about this...

thanks

l_j_r

lamont_jordan_rules · Post by **lamont_jordan_rules** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:32 pm

Brandon777 wrote:
gregory smith wrote:According to Pastarelli the Jets say they will not pay the $5M bonus.

Of course Pastabelly would not want to report good news for the Skins.

... funny ... that's how i feel about him with the jets too...

l_j_r

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:35 pm

lamont_jordan_rules wrote:... our concerns are mostly related to how coles has performed with the toe injury ... do you all feel that coles drop in production this past season was more gibbs run oriented / smashmouth - counter-trey offensive philosophy, or more related to coles not being able to do what he was able to before the injury?

A little bit of both...in 2003 his production dropped as the season was ending...due to the wear on his toe and the injury to Ramsey. Can't tell if it was Brunell, Gibbs, or the toe this past season...but Coles did fight his butt off...played hurt...etc.

... of course we also were hoping to have you all foot the $5 million dollar bill, but it seems that the jets would pick that up on the most recent news updates...

No, you go ahead an take it...since the Jets were too cheap to pay him a bonus before...they might as well pay him $5 million if they're gonna get him. We've already paid $8 million and he will be playing for you!

... we feel that after this season we would not be able to afford to keep moss, so if coles is locked in for a couple seasons that would be beneficial to us...

Ahhhh, so this was your plan all along...let us raid your roster and pay the BIG bonuses...then you'd get the player back under contract with the bonus stuck on the Redskins?

also he will be a decent punt returner, but not as good as chad morton ... his speed lets him bust one if he gets any gap, but he has a habit of much east-west running that can get frustrating at times

Disagree....Morton did not return punts until he came to the Redskins...he was a better kickoff returner, Moss handled all the punt returns and led the NFL in return average for punts.

If the trade goes down I want the Jets to throw in MLB Sam Cowart since the Jets are likely to cut him anyway. He can be insurance if Pierce leaves the Skins. Besides, Coles is a lot better than Moss IMO....and the Jets got our 1st round pick 2 years ago.

If this goes down it's like the Jets got Coles (with HUGE bonus paid by Skins) and Dewayne Robertson in exchange for Santana Moss (who is not a pure #1 WR)....give us Cowart and a late round pick too!!!

-cheers
-drinking

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:45 pm

I got two words for you guys if Santana Moss is all you get in this deal.

Joey Galloway. :shock:

lamont_jordan_rules · Post by **lamont_jordan_rules** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:50 pm

No, you go ahead an take it...since the Jets were too cheap to pay him a bonus before...they might as well pay him $5 million if they're gonna get him. We've already paid $8 million and he will be playing for you!

... so kind of you...

Ahhhh, so this was your plan all along...let us raid your roster and pay the BIG bonuses...then you'd get the player back under contract with the bonus stuck on the Redskins?

... hey, we hated snyder when he punched us 4 times in the mouth a couple years back, ... but it's funny ... seems like it may work out for us now

... also penny & coles really had a great vibe going together ... they each just seemed to know what the other was doing & if they can get any of that back it will be huge for us ...

Disagree....Morton did not return punts until he came to the Redskins...he was a better kickoff returner, Moss handled all the punt returns and led the NFL in return average for punts.

i had thought that morton did some punt returns for us back in the day as well, ... but i usually have 2 or 10 or 20 beers for the game ... so i may be off base there ... but when morton was returning the kick offs for us he really tore it up the year before you all got him...

... santana will do an excellent job returning for you guys if this goes through, ... but you will see what i am talking about with the east to west stuff...

... i agree that coles is a much better receiver than moss ... the only debate there is how much the toe affects him vs. how much was qb play & general disgruntledness etc.

coles is a legitimate #1, while moss is more of a top level #2 guy

... i hope that cowart doesn't get involved ... he actually was playing lights out for us at the beginning of last year ... before he went out with an injury ... i believe he had about 15 tackles in week 1 & was doing great in week 2 before getting hurt ... vilma just was such a phenom that cowart couldn't make it back ... i love him in there when we switch to a 3/4 or as security for injuries...

l_j_r

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:51 pm

Hey Cowboy fan, I've got two words for you regarding the Bledsoe signing too.

Mark Brunell.

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:52 pm

Skeletor wrote:Hey Cowboy fan, I've got two words for you regarding the Bledsoe signing too.

Mark Brunell.

Nah, It was known for a fact already Brunell just wasn't good anymore, yet you paid him and the Jags enough to get him.

We're only payin him 2.5 per the first two years and going from there

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:54 pm

Hey LJR....Don't you guys run the same offense we are running? Ken Whissenhunt is your OC, right?

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:55 pm

JansenFan wrote:Hey LJR....Don't you guys run the same offense we are running? Ken Whissenhunt is your OC, right?

Whissenhunt? Didn't they get that guy from the Titans?

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:58 pm

I must admit, I do not feel the "buzz" i felt 2 years ago when the Laverneus Coles rumors were flying.

I guess that is the best way to guage your feeling on this trade. Whether you are a Jets fan or a Redskins fan....ask yourself this:

Redskin fan:
How do you feel now compared to when you found out we were getting Coles 2 years ago?

Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?

lamont_jordan_rules · Post by **lamont_jordan_rules** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:06 pm

JansenFan wrote:Hey LJR....Don't you guys run the same offense we are running? Ken Whissenhunt is your OC, right?

Offensive Coordinator Heimerdinger, Mike 0 years 9 years

Mike Heimerdinger was named offensive coordinator on January 19, 2005 . prior to joining the Jets he served as the offensive coordinator for the Titans. from 2000-04 .

... we actually ran a version of the WCO last year under Paul can't Hackett ... 3rd and 17 ?? ... draw play to martin ... so thankful to be rid of him...

l_j_r

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:07 pm

Redskin fan:
How do you feel now compared to when you found out we were getting Coles 2 years ago?

I'd have to say you guys aren't as excited as you were then, but probably interested in a guy who can be explosive (I have to question the guy's toughness though. I've seen instances, that plus his size and unwillingness to go over the middle brough up the Galloway comment. But that's my opinion, not yours, so take it with a grain of salt I guess

)But you definitely feel better than if outright releasing him. At least you get back a former first rounder.

Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?

I imagine they're ecstatic. Not only were they upset when he left and missed him. He would have helped them a bit this past year.
And don't forget the Pennington Factor.[/quote]

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:10 pm

Primetime42 wrote:
Redskin fan:
How do you feel now compared to when you found out we were getting Coles 2 years ago?

I'd have to say you guys aren't as excited as you were then, but probably interested in a guy who can be explosive (I have to question the guy's toughness though. I've seen instances, that plus his size and unwillingness to go over the middle brough up the Galloway comment. But that's my opinion, not yours, so take it with a grain of salt I guess )But you definitely feel better than if outright releasing him. At least you get back a former first rounder.

Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?
I imagine they're ecstatic. Not only were they upset when he left and missed him. He would have helped them a bit this past year.
And don't forget the Pennington Factor.

When it comes to toughness nobody rivals Coles....maybe Hines Ward...but Coles was a monster across the middle.

Moss will be a speedster....and Bubba Tyer will take good care of him.

lamont_jordan_rules · Post by **lamont_jordan_rules** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:11 pm

Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?

not as upset ... basically there is some talk that you guys had your hands tied via the salary cap anyway & why couldn't we wait for you to have to release him & then try to sign him & keep moss ... i don't know if you would have let him go anyway however & if you did he very well would have been offered more $$ than we were willing or able to give...

...coles was definitely a better receiver & especially the chemistry he had with chad that last year on our team ... it really hurt to lose him...

... santana is an excellent receiver ... who i do not want to lose, ... but he is an excellent #2 ... where coles is an excellent #1 when healthy...

l_j_r

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:13 pm

Wasn't Moss the number one with the Jets this year? I don't think McCareings could be considered the #1. Who else did they have?

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:15 pm

lamont_jordan_rules wrote:
Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?

not as upset ... basically there is some talk that you guys had your hands tied via the salary cap anyway & why couldn't we wait for you to have to release him & then try to sign him & keep moss ... i don't know if you would have let him go anyway however & if you did he very well would have been offered more $$ than we were willing or able to give...

...coles was definitely a better receiver & especially the chemistry he had with chad that last year on our team ... it really hurt to lose him...

... santana is an excellent receiver ... who i do not want to lose, ... but he is an excellent #2 ... where coles is an excellent #1 when healthy...

l_j_r

i appreciate your honesty...and I agree with you.

Be the first Jet fan to say it: The Redskins are getting the shaft on this deal.

Sure, we could get nothing if we let Coles walk...but we would have gotten $5 million back to our CAP.

I still think the Skins should get Cowhart thrown into the deal cause as you said....Coles is a better player than Moss....and they both have injury concerns that cancel each other out.

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:18 pm

Skeletor wrote:Wasn't Moss the number one with the Jets this year? I don't think McCareings could be considered the #1. Who else did they have?

They traded for McCarriens with the intention of him eventually becoming a number 1. (I think a big reason for the fact Moss had a better year was that he, like Coles, had developed a reportoire with the Chad and he and Coles would be a dangerous duo next year :shock:

)

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:19 pm

Skeletor wrote:Wasn't Moss the number one with the Jets this year? I don't think McCareings could be considered the #1. Who else did they have?

This year the Jets had:

Moss - underpreformed
McCareins - underpreformed
Chebret - underpreformed

and Jonathan Carter (has some talent, fast)

The year before they had:

Moss - had a great year
Curtis Conway - BUST
Chebret - oft injured

....and Pennington was hurt most of the year

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:20 pm

oafusp wrote:
lamont_jordan_rules wrote:
Jets fan:
How do you feel now losing Moss compared to losing Coles 2 years ago?
The same, not as upset?, Worse?

not as upset ... basically there is some talk that you guys had your hands tied via the salary cap anyway & why couldn't we wait for you to have to release him & then try to sign him & keep moss ... i don't know if you would have let him go anyway however & if you did he very well would have been offered more $$ than we were willing or able to give...

...coles was definitely a better receiver & especially the chemistry he had with chad that last year on our team ... it really hurt to lose him...

... santana is an excellent receiver ... who i do not want to lose, ... but he is an excellent #2 ... where coles is an excellent #1 when healthy...

l_j_r

i appreciate your honesty...and I agree with you.

Be the first Jet fan to say it: The Redskins are getting the shaft on this deal.

Sure, we could get nothing if we let Coles walk...but we would have gotten $5 million back to our CAP.

I still think the Skins should get Cowhart thrown into the deal cause as you said....Coles is a better player than Moss....and they both have injury concerns that cancel each other out.

I don't think you're getting the SHAFT...again, you're not just letting him walk, BUT...

I'd ask for more than Santana Moss.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:23 pm

lamont_jordan_rules wrote:... we actually ran a version of the WCO last year under Paul can't Hackett ... 3rd and 17 ?? ... draw play to martin ...

If only he were the only WCO playcaller to do things like that. :oops: