The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:50 pm**

35yrskinsfan wrote:Trade down in the first round for a late first rounder and a second rounder.

pick up Elton Brown, G, VA and then a Center in the second round.

Williams has shown he can make his 'D' work with anybody.
Gibbs wants to run so I say build the 'O' line and make that happen. If we can run, we've got the WR's to make enough plays.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Great post.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:30 pm**

I think that Gibbs is geared more towards winning right away then waiting around, because he obviously doesn't have all the time in the world. That's why I don't think he'll take a DE or DT. They take too long to develop. The only big playmaker right off the bat that has lately come out of the Draft is Julius Peppers, and his caliber player won't be around the 9th pick.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:41 pm**

I say trade down in the 1st round draft DE, then use the pick we get from the trade for a center in the late second round . Also pick up a OG in the third round. ALL bets off on draft day though...

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:20 am**

Yes, I'd trade back our pick in the first and grab whatever "great" interior lineman that we can to help us....and the Skins have a history of drafting BUSTS when it comes to WR's in the first round (as of late Howard, Westbrook, Gardner)... If we're gonna do the whole "History" thing..

[/quote]
Joe Gibbs doesn't though Art Monk was a first round pick. Your right about the Wr's Casserly does, but guess what he is not here anymore. The worst part of our line is our right tackle and center. Bugel loves Dockery and isn't going to replace him. He has the talent to work with he will be better after a year with this system. Our recievers are wrost than our o-line anyway they drop passes and get no seperation there terrible.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:21 am**

A guard isn't worth taking in the first round any way.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:47 am**

John Manfreda wrote:A guard isn't worth taking in the first round any way.

Why?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:08 am**

I would take Edwards or Williams over any other guard in the draft. Think of it who would you rather have Williams or Edwards and Dockery, or Jacobs and a guard we draft. We could sign a solid guard for cheap money. Don't tell me Randy Tomas needs to be replaced, because by far our best and most consistent lineman.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:09 am**

John Manfreda wrote:I would take Edwards or Williams over any other guard in the draft. Think of it who would you rather have Williams or Edwards and Dockery, or Jacobs and a guard we draft. We could sign a solid guard for cheap money. Don't tell me Randy Tomas needs to be replaced, because he is by far our best and most consistent lineman.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:26 am**

John Manfreda wrote:I would take Edwards or Williams over any other guard in the draft. Think of it who would you rather have Williams or Edwards and Dockery, or Jacobs and a guard we draft. We could sign a solid guard for cheap money. Don't tell me Randy Tomas needs to be replaced, because by far our best and most consistent lineman.

No, but again... we sign a cheap guard... we end up with the same problem... why are you so set on Mike Williams? We haven't seen him play in a year... or work out for that matter...

and So we're suppose to take Edwards and have inconsistent line play?...i don't think thats wise...

You never answered my question from another thread... When Mike Williams is wide open in the end-zone and Ramsey is laying down on his back.... what do we do then?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:49 am**

Dockery will improve, Jansen will be back we draft a center, that won't happen. A cheap guard doesn't mean a bad guard. Joe Salava, Antoni Pierce, Lemar Marshall, Ryan Clark. They were all cheap I don't think they were bad. Maybe you do but the 3rd ranked defense is not too shabby. That won't happen because Dockery will be better, Thomas is good, Jansen will be back, we will get a good center, and Samuels (I am still not high on Samuels and think he should be ousted but most people on this board don't so I am using him to prove a point) at Lt we will have a good o-line our recievers are wrose than our o-line by far. Our line isn't as bad as our skill players, except our Qb.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:23 am**

John Manfreda wrote:Dockery will improve,

How do we know? He's been here for 2 years and has played inconsistent both years... doesn't sound like much of an improvement... must we wait for him to improve or give him some good competition to say, "Shape up or Ship out."

John Manfreda wrote: Jansen will be back we draft a center, that won't happen.

although confused by the sentance... Jansen does not guarantee an improved line... since he does not play on the interior nor was our interior line improved when we had him, and the same line last year...

John Manfreda wrote:A cheap guard doesn't mean a bad guard. Joe Salava, Antoni Pierce, Lemar Marshall, Ryan Clark. They were all cheap I don't think they were bad.

Nor are any of them guards.... I get your point, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to play guard in the NFL... infact... they probably have the easiest job on the line... getting help from the center and tackles all the time... we've constantly had cheap guards for the past decade... time to get a good one...

John Manfreda wrote:That won't happen because Dockery will be better, Thomas is good, Jansen will be back, we will get a good center, and Samuels (I am still not high on Samuels and think he should be ousted but most people on this board don't so I am using him to prove a point) at Lt we will have a good o-line our recievers are wrose than our o-line by far. Our line isn't as bad as our skill players, except our Qb.

guessing doesn't work my friend... Jansen, Samuels, Thomas, & Dockery were on the line last year... and the line sucked.... With the exception of Jansen, they were all on the line this year plus Raymer... and they sucked... When does the sucking stop? Time to take off the blinders... Better O-line play will result in better WR play....

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:57 am**

I think Washington should trade down and draft a quarterback in the first round, I don't see Ramsy can be washington's starting QB in the future.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:35 pm**

No,I think Ramsy is good when he has time. He played well against Minn. The problem is our line doesnt give him time and the timing routes are always off because of that.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:47 pm**

Well I have to say this EVERY offseason, but I think we should draft...

Oh wait... I can't tell you yet... we havent had free agency which tends to change a few things... especially in D.C. :shock:

Ask me again in March.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:04 pm**

1niksder wrote:
redskinz4ever wrote:W.R. / D.E. we need both positions upgraded !!!!

Trading down in the first round and picking up a second round pick would help us upgrade both spots without burning our #1 pick for 2006

TO BAD YOU & I DON'T WORK IN THE FRONT OFFICE :lol:

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:15 pm**

The problem with the interior is the center. If you knew anything about football Dockery this and last year was learning a new system. Our interior sucked because we had no center. Your center calls the blocking schemes from the line of scrimage, points out blitzes and other stuff. Our line sucked under Spurrier yeah your right because the coach was a retard. There biggest problem was a center. Dockery didn't play bad at all. The guys who sucked were Ray Brown and the center and Samuels. The tackles are what need to be replaced. But our wr's were wrose. The reason we never went down field is we don't have a legitment deep threat. Coles was but with the toe injury he is not the same player anymore. He can't burn db's like he use to. Our takcles are a hell of a lot wrose this year than our guards. The sacks on the interior if you were watching were because or the center. If we have a capable center our guards play will improve dramatically. Tomas is already playing well anyway. I can't believe I am talking about this no one that has a brain uses the 9th pick in the draft on a guard. Especially when reciever is a bigger need. Why do you think Ramsey threw Cool

ey and Royal all the time, oh yeah and the Rb, it is because we have no recievers. The only passes completed to recievers were those quick outs or screens. They couldn't run a slant or anything. The line has had some really good games. The recieving units as a whole haven't had one solid game as a whole.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:35 pm**

John Manfreda wrote:The problem with the interior is the center. If you knew anything about football Dockery this and last year was learning a new system. Our interior sucked because we had no center. Your center calls the blocking schemes from the line of scrimage, points out blitzes and other stuff. Our line sucked under Spurrier yeah your right because the coach was a retard. There biggest problem was a center. Dockery didn't play bad at all. The guys who sucked were Ray Brown and the center and Samuels. The tackles are what need to be replaced. But our wr's were wrose. The reason we never went down field is we don't have a legitment deep threat. Coles was but with the toe injury he is not the same player anymore. He can't burn db's like he use to. Our takcles are a hell of a lot wrose this year than our guards. The sacks on the interior if you were watching were because or the center. If we have a capable center our guards play will improve dramatically. Tomas is already playing well anyway. I can't believe I am talking about this no one that has a brain uses the 9th pick in the draft on a guard. Especially when reciever is a bigger need. Why do you think Ramsey threw ey and Royal all the time, oh yeah and the Rb, it is because we have no recievers. The only passes completed to recievers were those quick outs or screens. They couldn't run a slant or anything. The line has had some really good games. The recieving units as a whole haven't had one solid game as a whole.

If I only knew anything about football....

All right Lombardi... yu cna wiin on the a count that I'm not e good in the art of speking "nonsense"...god job litle budiie

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:45 pm**

Why do you think Ramsey threw ey and Royal all the time, oh yeah and the Rb, it is because we have no recievers.

I must disagree. These are the reasons why we didn't go deep this year.

1. Brunell couldn't get it there.
2. Ramsey didn't practice with the starters at all during the offseason.
3. The running game was non-existant due to poor blocking and the new scheme.
4. Blocking: Although it was a dramatic improvement theres still work to be done.
5. Inexperience: We have a young minded QB.
6. Ignorance: Ramsey once again took a bit longer to grasp Joe's playbook.
7. Left vs Right: I personally didn't think there was a difference but our WR's have said that the delivery of our 2 QB's are totally different.
8. Injuries: Coles wasn't a deep threat this year. Ramsey has the ability to lead Coles, and Coles had the ability to run past coverage but couldnt this year. We have no other WR's that can do that except maybe Taylor Jacobs.

My point is that our problems start at the roots and WR's aren't at the root.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:52 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Why do you think Ramsey threw ey and Royal all the time, oh yeah and the Rb, it is because we have no recievers.

I must disagree. These are the reasons why we didn't go deep this year.

1. Brunell couldn't get it there.
2. Ramsey didn't practice with the starters at all during the offseason.
3. The running game was non-existant due to poor blocking and the new scheme.
4. Blocking: Although it was a dramatic improvement theres still work to be done.
5. Inexperience: We have a young minded QB.
6. Ignorance: Ramsey once again took a bit longer to grasp Joe's playbook.
7. Left vs Right: I personally didn't think there was a difference but our WR's have said that the delivery of our 2 QB's are totally different.
8. Injuries: Coles wasn't a deep threat this year. Ramsey has the ability to lead Coles, and Coles had the ability to run past coverage but couldnt this year. We have no other WR's that can do that except maybe Taylor Jacobs.

My point is that our problems start at the roots and WR's aren't at the root.

You surprise me Chris.

Good points. That sums it up. :idea:

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:20 pm**

Of course I win, guard a bigger need than reciever. Our center is horrible and needs to be upgraded that is part of the interior line. Center the position that was so bad that it hurt the rest of the other lineman.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:10 pm**

Thanks Niki - I love you too :0). shhhh people will talk.

I think Raymer is past his prime and struggles to make blocks. He's slow and not very strong ( in terms of OLINEMEN) I don't really dislike him - I just think we'd make a huge investment in our team to get a guy that's going to snap the ball, lead the O line and be consistent for many years to come. I agree that a Center shouldn't be taken early - but a late first for a guy like Baas or Wilkerson isn't out to the realm of possibility. I like both players - but I think Baas is one of the best O linemen to come out in recent years. I think he's better than any Michigan O lineman/ including Jansen... and I'm a Jansen fan. Big talk? I know, but I really think he's THAT good. Plus he could play guard or RT if needed. He's got great feet, keeps leverage and doesn't make mistakes.

Mainly, I'd like to see Ramsey's jersey clean in the 4th Quarter. I think we could trade back, get a low first and a good second and a third for this #9 overall. Or we could get a player and some picks...

That said, if we keep the pick and get Mike Williams - I might shed a tear of joy :0)

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:13 pm**

gto921 wrote:I think Washington should trade down and draft a quarterback in the first round, I don't see Ramsy can be washington's starting QB in the future.

please elaborate on this further :roll:

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:13 pm**

John Manfreda wrote:The problem with the interior is the center. If you knew anything about football Dockery this and last year was learning a new system. Our interior sucked because we had no center. Your center calls the blocking schemes from the line of scrimage, points out blitzes and other stuff. Our line sucked under Spurrier yeah your right because the coach was a retard. There biggest problem was a center. Dockery didn't play bad at all. The guys who sucked were Ray Brown and the center and Samuels. The tackles are what need to be replaced. But our wr's were wrose. The reason we never went down field is we don't have a legitment deep threat. Coles was but with the toe injury he is not the same player anymore. He can't burn db's like he use to. Our takcles are a hell of a lot wrose this year than our guards. The sacks on the interior if you were watching were because or the center. If we have a capable center our guards play will improve dramatically. Tomas is already playing well anyway. I can't believe I am talking about this no one that has a brain uses the 9th pick in the draft on a guard. Especially when reciever is a bigger need. Why do you think Ramsey threw ey and Royal all the time, oh yeah and the Rb, it is because we have no recievers. The only passes completed to recievers were those quick outs or screens. They couldn't run a slant or anything. The line has had some really good games. The recieving units as a whole haven't had one solid game as a whole.

Ok... Cut down on it next time. You wrote multiple sentences about one problem;

Center Problems: 5

WRs Complaints: 8

Tackles Have No Ability: 4

Also, people here know football. Not all of them, but some of them do know fundamentals.

Second, people do take guards in the Top 10.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:15 pm**

redskincity wrote:You surprise me Chris.

Good points. That sums it up.

Why? He has been posting some great messages for several months now.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:31 pm**

Redskin in Canada wrote:
redskincity wrote:You surprise me Chris.

Good points. That sums it up.

Why? He has been posting some great messages for several months now.

.........Good observation. =D>

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