It is official about Joe Gibbs.

4bz · Post by **4bz** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:22 pm

Everyone is criticing the offense for not closing out the game, but it wasn't the offense that gave up the game winning TD. Give credit where it's due, Patrick Crayton who? The D lost the game, not the offense, sure the offense could have came threw a couple more times, but this time it falls all the D. They gave up a td, w/ 30 seconds left? Whos fault is that?

Raised2BeARedskin · Post by **Raised2BeARedskin** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:39 pm

It was a team effort and a team loss. If we hadn't given up that 1 sec left in the 2nd qtr FG then that last second TD would have just tied the game. You spread the blame around...true Sean made a fatal mistake in the end that cost us, but he is a rook and that mess up will probably be good for him. Its no secret that history always repeats itself...Dallas ALWAYS find a way to squeeze out a "W". I am sick of everyone blaming people when things go south and praising our guys when we reign victorious. Be a true fan and accept the fact that yes, we lost, and yes Joe Gibbs has it fall on him. Just have faith in our team! This is a rebuilding year, and we have shown un-negotiable improvments in both defense and offense. Just wait to see what JOE GIBBS will bring to the table next year! HAIL TO THE REDSKINS! HAIL VICTORY!

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:13 am

I watched at a sports bar (in NYC, my pick is Blondie's Sports Bar, on 79th betweeen B'wy and Amst. I tried ESPN for the first half, thinking I might see Redeemed...but the place is worse than Times Square station during rush hour.). That means just a picture...no "learned commentatary".

I've thought about it...Gibbs made the right choice to run three times and burn the Cowboys last timeouts. Maybe on second down call a safe play-action pass, and have Ramsey eat the ball rather than take a chance on a drop or an interception.

But the saensible thing was to run off their timeouts, punt deep, and let the Redskins defense throttle them.

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But: why was there no pressure on Vinny during that last series? It looked like he crumbled every time the Redskins blitzed...and on the last drive, it looked like the Skins played soft and deep. Why?

*

Gut-busting.

Raised2BeARedskin · Post by **Raised2BeARedskin** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:43 am

I didn't get it either. I mean, blitzing worked great! Why stop doing something that works so well at shutting them down? Well I guess Williams wanted everyone manned up.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:49 am

i don't understand how anyone on earth can say that the defense lost this game. the defense is inarguably the only reason we even had a CHANCE at winning! think about how the game went--

offense gives cowboys the ball during 1st drive of the game. defense holds them to a 3-and-out.

we give them the ball on an INT, defense forces a fumble on the goal-line to save a TD and get the ball back.
what does our offense do? moves backward, then forward, then punts on a 3-and-out.

then the D holds them to ANOTHER 3-and-out, punt. what does the offense do? 11 yards, punt.

springs intercepts in the endzone to save ANOTHER score, and runs it out. the offense then moves BACKWARDS. -4 yards!!! (teams that can't capitalize off opponent's turnovers don't win many games).

our defense then holds them without a first down FOUR DRIVES IN A ROW. what does the offense do to put the game out of reach? consecutive drives of 6 yards and 3 yards. !!!

i'm sorry, the only reasonable conclusion is that the defense is not just doing their job but doing a GREAT job, and the offense is letting them down over and over again. are you really going to tell me that asking for 14 points is unreasonable??? FOURTEEN POINTS!!! if you only need 14 points to win and you can't get it, don't even think of blaming the defense! that is insane!

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:14 am

To be clear: the defemse saved the game with some miracle plays in the first half, and withering pressure on Vinny T in the second half. The fumble recover, the Springs interception. The offesne shoukd have made more from those.

I don't -- nobody who watched ought to -- blame the defense.

They had one last puzzling serioes, and I'm sure that Williams had a strategy. I don't understand he decision to relax the rush in the last 1:30 minutes.

In that last series, they had one final bad play. One slip-up out of an entire game...that is superb play for 59 mimutes. One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense.

4bz · Post by **4bz** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:49 am

"One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense." How do you figure, these guys want to be the #1 defense, #1 defenses don't give up plays like that. It's not one bad play, a bad play is a missed sack and the qb scrambles for 20, a missed tackle for a TD. Those are bad plays. This was a horrible play, what good is a defense that shuts down an opponent the whole game, only to give up a game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game? Not saying that our defense hasn't been stellar this year, but I hate how everybody is so quick to blame Gibbs. Gibbs didn't run the prevent D.

Post by **admin** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:58 am

Yeah... blame it one the defense. So what if they have been the heart and soul of this team game in and game out. So what if they are the #2 defense in the league without any offensive support... they allowed a TOUCHDOWN darn it... they must suck.

Maybe they're just so darn tired at the end of every game because they've been on the field so much?

This defense is not only NOT the problem, they are the reason that the real Redskin fans have cause for excitement in the year or two to come.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:02 am

4bz wrote:"One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense." How do you figure, these guys want to be the #1 defense, #1 defenses don't give up plays like that. It's not one bad play, a bad play is a missed sack and the qb scrambles for 20, a missed tackle for a TD. Those are bad plays. This was a horrible play, what good is a defense that shuts down an opponent the whole game, only to give up a game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game? Not saying that our defense hasn't been stellar this year, but I hate how everybody is so quick to blame Gibbs. Gibbs didn't run the prevent D.

wrong.... if a team throws down the field enough eventually there gonna connect with one of their WR, they just hope to do so before an interception happens... which in this case they got lucky and connected... end of story...

our Defense is still one of the tops in the league and had we scored one of the other 2 times we were inside the 10 instead of kicking field goals or throwing interceptions... that last second Dallas touchdown would be a non-issue.... sorry but you can't blame the D on this game....

4bz · Post by **4bz** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:08 am

BringThePain! wrote:
4bz wrote:"One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense." How do you figure, these guys want to be the #1 defense, #1 defenses don't give up plays like that. It's not one bad play, a bad play is a missed sack and the qb scrambles for 20, a missed tackle for a TD. Those are bad plays. This was a horrible play, what good is a defense that shuts down an opponent the whole game, only to give up a game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game? Not saying that our defense hasn't been stellar this year, but I hate how everybody is so quick to blame Gibbs. Gibbs didn't run the prevent D.

wrong.... if a team throws down the field enough eventually there gonna connect with one of their WR, they just hope to do so before an interception happens... which in this case they got lucky and connected... end of story...

our Defense is still one of the tops in the league and had we scored one of the other 2 times we were inside the 10 instead of kicking field goals or throwing interceptions... that last second Dallas touchdown would be a non-issue.... sorry but you can't blame the D on this game....

uhhh....I just did. So you put no pressure on vinny, which worked great all day. You give him time to throw, that's exactly what vinny needs...end result????

"This defense is not only NOT the problem, they are the reason that the real Redskin fans have cause for excitement in the year or two to come."
That's nice how you insinuate that I'm am not a "real redskin" fan. If you read my post did I say the D sucked? No, I said they have been stellar all season long. But to give up a play like that is not the way of a #2 ranked defense, it just doesn't happen. I am excited for the seasons to come. But god forbid I have my own opinion that goes against the grain of the forums :roll:

35yrskinsfan · Post by **35yrskinsfan** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:09 am

4bz wrote:"One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense." How do you figure, these guys want to be the #1 defense, #1 defenses don't give up plays like that. It's not one bad play, a bad play is a missed sack and the qb scrambles for 20, a missed tackle for a TD. Those are bad plays. This was a horrible play, what good is a defense that shuts down an opponent the whole game, only to give up a game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game? Not saying that our defense hasn't been stellar this year, but I hate how everybody is so quick to blame Gibbs. Gibbs didn't run the prevent D.

THEY ALLOW 1 TOUCHDOWN! THEY ALLOW 1 DOWNFIELD CATCH! AND THEY SUCK?!?! ARE YOU NUTS. WITH YOUR BEST COVER CORNER SITTING IN THE LOCKER ROOM, YOUR BEST SAFETY ON IR AND PLAYING WHO-DATS ON MOST OF THE DEFENSE BECAUSE OF INJURY?!?

WHY THE HECK CAN'T THE OFFENSE GET ONE STINKING FIRST DOWN? WHY CAN'T THE OFFENSE SCORE MORE THAN 10 POINTS? WHY IS GIIBS SO AFRAID OF TAKING ANY CHANCES WHEN YOUR 5-9? THE OFFENSE IS CRAP AND THEY LOST THE GAME FOR US. PERIOD.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:10 am

i blame it all on kozlowski. "butterfingers" started a snow ball effect.

hkiss444 · Post by **hkiss444** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:35 am

Gibbs has designed a whole new offense it's called the Prevent O.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:41 am

4bz wrote:
BringThePain! wrote:
4bz wrote:"One bad play: nobody can criticize the defense." How do you figure, these guys want to be the #1 defense, #1 defenses don't give up plays like that. It's not one bad play, a bad play is a missed sack and the qb scrambles for 20, a missed tackle for a TD. Those are bad plays. This was a horrible play, what good is a defense that shuts down an opponent the whole game, only to give up a game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game? Not saying that our defense hasn't been stellar this year, but I hate how everybody is so quick to blame Gibbs. Gibbs didn't run the prevent D.

wrong.... if a team throws down the field enough eventually there gonna connect with one of their WR, they just hope to do so before an interception happens... which in this case they got lucky and connected... end of story...

our Defense is still one of the tops in the league and had we scored one of the other 2 times we were inside the 10 instead of kicking field goals or throwing interceptions... that last second Dallas touchdown would be a non-issue.... sorry but you can't blame the D on this game....

uhhh....I just did. So you put no pressure on vinny, which worked great all day. You give him time to throw, that's exactly what vinny needs...end result????

alright rookie... in the last 3:41 seconds... dallas had 3 drives.... where the defense gave up one long play and thats it.... to me and most... it sounds like 3 drives in 3:41 is an anomaly... but it happened .... mostly due to the offense/special teams not putting the game away, especially after twice the defense successfully stop them where they should never had touched the ball again.... if you can not see this than you can't be helped...

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:54 am

hkiss444 wrote:Gibbs has designed a whole new offense it's called the Prevent O.

ROTFALMAO

4bz · Post by **4bz** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:07 pm

Dude, I'm no rookie, the d gave up a td that lost the game, that is that. And if you want to reply to something I write make sure you read my whole post, rather than bits and pieces (selective reading). I agree'd in a prev post the offense should of helped out more, but end result ended up in a horrible play by the defense. But you know what, I'm done arguing, a loss is a loss, no matter what, you feel the O lost the game, I feel the D lost the game, cool. Regardless in the big scheme of things our opinions mean jack, it's just a sport and really doesn't have any play in our daily lives other than frustration........

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:09 pm

4bz wrote:I feel the D lost the game....

and for that.... your a rookie.....

redskins-28 · Post by **redskins-28** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:28 pm

My gripe is on Gibbs' play calling on the last drive the offense had where they went 3 and out with 3 runs. The entire game we were mixing it up with short passes and running and ate away the clock...... so why change on the last drive? There was only 5 minutes left and we could have EASILY run out the clock by holding on to the ball. I NEVER understand why any team changes to a prevent defense in the last 2 minutes or a prevent offense as we do?? If what you have been doing all game is working then stick with it, DON'T change the game plan. Our running game was mediocre yesterday so why did he call 3 running plays and then punt? Just because you are up by 4 points don't play like the game is over (Gibbs always does this and relies on the defense to save the win), keep playing the same scheme you have all day and score again to seal the game.

:cry:

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:38 pm

I agree.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:39 pm

Parcells played to win last night... Gibbs played to not lose. That stuff will bite us in the end of these types of games.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:40 pm

On the offense taking shots downfield:
"We did take shots. We took a lot of shots. The problem is, the quarterback gets sacked, the ball gets knocked down, or someone gets tripped and there's a fumble. We just aren't able to move the ball down there."

That was a quote from Redskin.com from Gibbs. I don't remember any long shots downfield. Is it just me? Can someone tell me if I'm wrong? I'm so sick of watching other teams throw the ball deep, while we settle for all the short routes. I don't mind the short routes to get the game started and a rythm going, but all freakin' game????

As far as the D goes, I won't say they lost it for us, but they did give up the winning TD. Why Taylor didn't stay deep is beyond me. But the D never should have been in that situation. We should have reallly tried to convert that last 3rd down rather than just running the ball to waste time. We need so much on offense, and it starts with play calling and trickles down. We're not calling the right plays, because our coaches don't think we have the personell to make those plays work. Let 's get a line and an OC and then see what happens.

There's always next year. :wink:

Redskins2k5 · Post by **Redskins2k5** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:02 pm

im sorry but i blame all of our loses this year due to terrible play calling by Gibbs and the Refs are just plain out stupid

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:10 pm

While I agree about the refs, we need to play so it is not a factor. We know the refs suck, yet we don't play to over come that.

As far as this being the defenses fault, did anyone notice that we had linebackers lining up in the safety position at the end of the game. We had quite a few people who were hurt and no one to replace them with. So before you start blaming anyone I suggest you research the facts a little bit. The defensive play calling was conservative because we didn't have the right people in there to pull off much better then that. Again injuries hurt us. I am hoping next year we can survive with a whole lot less injuries to all of our players.

I will be going to the Vikings game and I will be cheering just as loud as I would've had we still had a shot at the playoffs. If you are going and not planning on doing the same please give your tickets to someone else. What kind of fan only cares about their team if there is a play off spot on the line? Not the kind of fan that Fed Ex needs those seats filled with.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:41 pm

welch wrote:But: why was there no pressure on Vinny during that last series? It looked like he crumbled every time the Redskins blitzed...and on the last drive, it looked like the Skins played soft and deep. Why?

Welch, please see the interview with Shawn Springs:

Q: Did the injury to Fred Smoot play a factor in the coverage scheme?
A: "We were short-handed over what we could do because Fred went down and Ade Jimoh went down on a special teams play. We were in a situation where we couldn't run a an aggressive defensive package. We didn't have anybody left. We had to keep our linebackers in while they had four wide receivers in. Normally we would have had more defensive backs in there. That's all we could do at that time because we were short."

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5226

Injuries caught up with us in the end.

I can not believe this thread. So many people trying to lay blame one way or another, whether it is defense or offense.

This game loss hurts like hell but I thought the majority in this board would do better than this. Some of you ask:

Q: Why not deeper passes?
A: We do not have time or great pass protection.

Q: Why do we not score in the red zone?
A: We have a battered offensive line filled with backups.

Q. Why is Gibbs doing this and that...?
A. Because that is the best he can do with the mess that he inherited, that's why!

The fact that you can count with one hand the number of positions that need to be filled in to win a championship is progress enough for -one- season.

I know that there is an psychologic element to air things out among people that are as HURT as we all are. But, people, why not help one another and the team with gratitude and constructive proposals instead of trying to lay blame on any side of our team???

Thank you Joe Gibbs! Thank you Coach Williams! Thank you all coaches and players! We have hope and high expectations and we stand with you. Thank you for bringing soul and spirit back to our team this season. Thank you for giving us pride once again. Thank you for raising the bar of our own expectations. You are on a good path. Our prayers and best wishes go to all of you for laying it on the line every week.

God bless the Washington Redskins!

portis26 · Post by **portis26** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:48 pm

Great post RIC!

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It is official about Joe Gibbs.

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