The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Here's a thought: it takes good draft picks AND good coaching.

The Browns are a good example. That team has been loaded with talent but continued to struggle under Hue Jackson. A capable coach like Gregg Williams looks like he has a good chance to do something with them.

The Rams are another great example. Jeff Fischer sucked with that team despite years of high first round picks. McVay was handed a top notch roster and has done well with it. He didn't build that team.

I wish I could say that the Skins might be in the same position. I honestly think we've drafted fairly well the past few years. But we're so completely screwed at the QB position its hard to see how it matters.

it takes a village - we have drafted some good players but a number of those picks were no-brainers that someone as stupid as I could have made

this franchise has just not been managed properly and while the injuries the past 2 season have been devastating this franchise is still looking at years to rebuild PRIMARILY because of some poor decisions by this FO and the 2 bozos at the top

this franchise has needed someone better at the helm under Dan Snyder for a long time - Bruce Allen has been a disaster - pointing out the few good things he's done does not help cover up the stupid decisions he has been a part of

Idk why you arent in Allens Role? Its allll SO obvious... Like the qb role next year?
Billecheck would fix that easy peasy

The Browns are not an example of a well managed team- hence the firing of the HC midseason. If we could land a Baker Mayfield in the draft this next season, I'd like our chances as much as theirs when healthy.


Que broken record /RIPThread

riggofan wrote:Here's a thought: it takes good draft picks AND good coaching.

The Browns are a good example. That team has been loaded with talent but continued to struggle under Hue Jackson. A capable coach like Gregg Williams looks like he has a good chance to do something with them.

The Rams are another great example. Jeff Fischer sucked with that team despite years of high first round picks. McVay was handed a top notch roster and has done well with it. He didn't build that team.

I wish I could say that the Skins might be in the same position. I honestly think we've drafted fairly well the past few years. But we're so completely screwed at the QB position its hard to see how it matters.

History proves that in the salary cap era you have to be consistent at drafting and have a consistent coaching philosophy. I most definitely agree with your assessment there. I don't think Bruce Allen has any idea how to build a roster. He's good with the salary cap if you believe he's the one working the cap. I don't even believe that. I think it's Eric Schaffer working the salary cap. I think it's Doug Williams working the player personnel now. I'm not entirely sure what Bruce Allen does. I also think to be fair to Jay Gruden he has done about as well as could be expected with that which he has been given to work. The real question is whether or not he could do better with a better roster. I'm not sure. One would think an offensive-minded coach would put up a lot more points with a better offense. But the state of this team means we're talking years of drafting unless they decide to return to their previous habit of outspending the competition to fill positions n free agency. I doubt seriously Jay Gruden gets enough time going forward for another complete roster rebuild. Bruce Allen might though and that's the far more disconcerting part.

So... We HAVE made changes... But you want to see Allen fired because you don't like him? Fair enough.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:So... We HAVE made changes... But you want to see Allen fired because you don't like him? Fair enough.

No, I want to see him fired because he has had nine years to build something and he has built what we are seeing on Sundays.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:So... We HAVE made changes... But you want to see Allen fired because you don't like him? Fair enough.

No, I want to see him fired because he has had nine years to build something and he has built what we are seeing on Sundays.

20 plus on IR considered? Or thats the name of the game?

I think Bruce might head elsewhere anyhow- just dont see what anyone could have done better given the hand we were dealt

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:So... We HAVE made changes... But you want to see Allen fired because you don't like him? Fair enough.

are you kidding me - nobody would hire Bruce Allen if he left - how many guys are working in the NFL that would have ZERO chance of getting hired elsewhere after working for 1 organization for close to 10 years

what has Bruce Allen done here that makes you think he's so great? - I don't have any personal feelings for Bruce Allen - he's as useless as tits on a bull

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:20 plus on IR considered? Or thats the name of the game?

I think Bruce might head elsewhere anyhow- just dont see what anyone could have done better given the hand we were dealt

You're talking about one season. It's also peculiar how some teams never have to make excuses for injuries. It seems like we have to make them every year.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:20 plus on IR considered? Or thats the name of the game?

I think Bruce might head elsewhere anyhow- just dont see what anyone could have done better given the hand we were dealt

You're talking about one season. It's also peculiar how some teams never have to make excuses for injuries. It seems like we have to make them every year.

Actually I'm talking about TWO SEASONS STRAIGHT WITH TWENTY PLUS TO IR- LEAGUE HIGHS BOTH YEARS RUNNING.
This is not normal.. And the injury excuse rings true for any team who loses its KEY pieces... See the Colts without Luck, SF minus Jimmy- though the backup is doing work (oh wait our back Up broke his damn leg too!). GB minus Rodgers last year. A SB talent squad minus Ohno.. 2-12! A SB favorite and MVP candidate in D Carr until he got hurt.. RG ma fawkn 3 until his knee was JELLO! The list goes on and on man...

We have had the injury bug bite us more then any team the last two years- facts. Thats not a cop out but true facts! We lost star studded Guice in preseason! Yet this horrible FO brought in a cheap vet that has been our saving grace at times.

Waaay to many people want unfounded heads to roll; we were 6-3 despite massive injuries before all hell broke out. Can you name our starting Oline without google???

I'll gladly say it again- blame the curse, blame the refs, blame the name, blame the strength and conditioning staff, or blame the turf... NO TEAM IN HISTORY overcomes this onslaught! So ya, name your scape goat but please do back it up with facts over feeling?

SkinsJock wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:So... We HAVE made changes... But you want to see Allen fired because you don't like him? Fair enough.

are you kidding me - nobody would hire Bruce Allen if he left - how many guys are working in the NFL that would have ZERO chance of getting hired elsewhere after working for 1 organization for close to 10 years

what has Bruce Allen done here that makes you think he's so great? - I don't have any personal feelings for Bruce Allen - he's as useless as tits on a bull

Um, cap friendliness? Contract negotiations? Letting peiple like Grant walk who want dollars? KG? (KCs walk)? Getting a decent deal for the best available qb in AS? Building through the draft? All the supplemental picks we now have? Not over spending for tired old Vets like OMG? Idk man... You claim he does nothing, so why bother? He IS a CAP guru... And if that roll is filled, why tf even mention him?

OakTown would hire him asap w it

You're dreaming or on drugs if you think:
1) this franchise will be better off keeping Bruce Allen in his current position
OR
2) that Bruce Allen will get a job elsewhere in the NFL at the same position he holds here

Bruce Allen is not the main reason that this franchise is in such a mess but he's a part of the problem here

Dreaming... On drugs....

So- he is or isn't the problem? DS aint selling- so is Allen just the scapegoat? Or, what change are you constantly clamouring about?
New HC? Who?

SkinsJock wrote:it takes a village - we have drafted some good players but a number of those picks were no-brainers that someone as stupid as I could have made

That's easy to say but there are a LOT of teams who don't make the no-brainer picks. We were certainly one of those teams under Vinny Cerrato. Take a look at the 2008 draft. Devin Thomas? Malcolm Kelly? FFS. You're just off base about our drafts in recent years. We've taken the right guys in the first round for the most part, and more importantly we've drafted guys in the later rounds who've contributed. That's something that we NEVER used to get.

I have no idea btw if Bruce Allen deserves credit for our drafts recently. Those picks could be coming from Gruden or straight from the scouts for all I know.

SkinsJock wrote:this franchise has needed someone better at the helm under Dan Snyder for a long time - Bruce Allen has been a disaster - pointing out the few good things he's done does not help cover up the stupid decisions he has been a part of

Totally agree. He deserves to be canned because he completely botched the QB situation.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Actually I'm talking about TWO SEASONS STRAIGHT WITH TWENTY PLUS TO IR- LEAGUE HIGHS BOTH YEARS RUNNING.
This is not normal..

Totally agree with this. Its ludicrous to think there is some coaching fix when you're on your fourth string QB, and last year was just as bad on the defensive side. Its not like this is an old roster or anything either where guys are more likely to get hurt. Its nothing but bad luck to have guys like Guice tearing ACLs.

I don't think the injuries will be an "excuse" but I don't see how anyone doesn't think its killed this season. How many penalties did those guards filling in for Scherff draw on Sunday? Brutal.

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Actually I'm talking about TWO SEASONS STRAIGHT WITH TWENTY PLUS TO IR- LEAGUE HIGHS BOTH YEARS RUNNING.
This is not normal..

Totally agree with this. Its ludicrous to think there is some coaching fix when you're on your fourth string QB, and last year was just as bad on the defensive side. Its not like this is an old roster or anything either where guys are more likely to get hurt. Its nothing but bad luck to have guys like Guice tearing ACLs.

I don't think the injuries will be an "excuse" but I don't see how anyone doesn't think its killed this season. How many penalties did those guards filling in for Scherff draw on Sunday? Brutal.

I would like to see an outside agency come in and review our training staff/programs.

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Tight end Jordan Reed has been ruled out for Saturday's game at Tennessee. Tight end Vernon Davis is questionable with a concussion. He developed symptoms Wednesday and did not practice. He's now in the concussion protocol. Receiver Josh Doctson is questionable with a lower...

Fans: Gruden's play calling is atrocious.

DEHog wrote:I would like to see an outside agency come in and review our training staff/programs.

Would be interesting to know which injuries were preventable. The broken legs, concussions, torn pecs, nerve damaged shins, torn ACLs, etc; etc;

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... juries.htm

Its a violent sport.

*sh$t* thing is- 10 of those big injuries, we could deal with- maybe. Everyone wants heads to roll, yet this roster was as packed as ever- depth including! You have 53 men... And can only dress, what- 49? We have lost nearly HALF THE DAMN TEAM!!! What FO change over comes such devastation?? Serious replies only.

We HAVE changed the culture, but we also have been brutally hit with injuries.... Maybe the Saints have a 4th string qb that can play behind a depleted O line? LMAO nah fam!
Fire everyone and reboot... If we have 20+ to IR next year it doesnt matter whose roster we have- 'ya done son!'

Again- look at strength and conditioning staff, the turf, change the name, and/or change the off-season regime.

Hard to blame the off-season when we lost Guice in a meaningless game- right away... Yet the ageless AP with ZERO camp/ OTAs, continues to shine.

Please contribute answers or solutions to our problems- save the pointless finger pointing for a couple weeks, ya?

This team doesn't have depth. It has bodies.

The problem has been going on for the entire Gruden era. What gives?

some here are over reacting and posturing that if we just keep doing what we've been doing for the past 10 years, things will be better here soon - the injuries are the only thing holding this franchise back and next year we'll be fine - what a load of crap

I agree that the injuries have been devastating the past 2 seasons but the fact remains this franchise has been a 7-9 win franchise and we are not getting any better than that by doing the same things we've been doing - I AM NOT advocating firing everyone and don't care if Bruce Allen stays as long as he doesn't have anything to do with anything but manipulating the cap or just hanging out with Dan

FACT IS - IF we don't get a new GM and President who are in charge of everything then it really doesn't matter if we keep Jay Gruden because with this franchise being as badly managed as it has been and will continue to be, there's really no chance of getting a better HC to come here and I will go on ad nauseam all next season as well

This franchise will NOT get better just because some here want it to

SkinsJock wrote:some here are over reacting and posturing that if we just keep doing what we've been doing for the past 10 years, things will be better here soon - the injuries are the only thing holding this franchise back and next year we'll be fine - what a load of crap

I don't know who "some here" are, man. But I think you're overstating this. Nobody that I've read seems to be saying that "the injuries are the only thing holding this franchise back". The point of the injuries is that its damn near impossible to really evaluate ANYBODY fairly under these circumstances.

Without the injuries this year, I think we'd all be feeling a lot more confident about at least making the playoffs for example. Heck without the RG3 injury in the playoffs, think of how different that all might have been!

As much as I dislike Bruce, there are legit good things they he did over the past ten years and some good changes he made to how the team operates. I'd just like the next guy to be better. Don't want to see the team step backwards into the old Vinny/Dan days.

nobody wants the team to be like it was and granted some people have done some good things but there's no way this franchise is getting better doing the same things they've been doing since Bruce Allen came in - I'm not saying it's his fault but something has to be done about the bad decisions that have caused us to be constantly hoping we can be lucky enough to win 8 games a year and why are the fans not coming to the games

we constantly end each season hoping we'll be better next season and now we're faced with hoping we'll be mediocre in 2 years - THAT SUCKS

why is that? who is responsible for that? WHY should ANYONE think that things will get better if we keep doing the same things?

speaking of RGIII - that's part of the reason that things are so bad here - making that deal was idiotic to say the least

it's like we don't have anyone that knows how to properly manage an NFL franchise - we need better decision makers

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:I would like to see an outside agency come in and review our training staff/programs.

Would be interesting to know which injuries were preventable. The broken legs, concussions, torn pecs, nerve damaged shins, torn ACLs, etc; etc;

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... juries.htm

Its a violent sport.

I'm sure the training staff would like to know too...