The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

PAPDOG67 wrote:

Just watch what's going to happen in Dallas the next ten years. Dallas is going to lead the league in rushing and probably win a SuperBowl or two and dominate the league. With the same formula Gibbs started. What bothers me most is that Dallas basically copied what Gibbs did. Now Dallas is basically going to do it all over again.

Football is not complicated at all. Sorry to break it you. You get the most physically imposing front seven on both sides of the ball and you'll win 9 out of ten times.
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Sorry man, but football doesn't work like that anymore. There have been plenty of teams who have won the SB recently without very intimidating front sevens on either side of the ball.[/quote]

Quote function, bro.

Anyway, truth on both sides here.

From Keim...

So says a veteran of NFL front offices, Joe Banner.

He spent 17 seasons as president of the Philadelphia Eagles; two years as the CEO of the Cleveland Browns and two more years as a front office consultant to the Atlanta Falcons. He offers a unique perspective and understands the dilemma facing the Redskins -- and Cousins’ unique position.
Kirk Cousins may not want to sign a long-term deal with the Redskins this offseason, knowing that he could hit the open market a year from now.
“If I was the agent, I’d want to see if they tag me before I did anything,” Banner said. “If they don’t tag me, I’d love to hit the open market and if they do tag me, use that as the base to open the negotiations. It’s pointless to negotiate now until the player and agent know whether or not they’re getting tagged.”

Here’s why: If the Redskins somehow let Cousins hit the open market, Banner said it would result in a big payday.

“He’d get a huge deal and would become the highest-paid QB by a moderate amount,” he said.

Cousins' potential, and just how good he already is, has led to many debates. Banner places Cousins in the good-but-not-great camp. That doesn't mean his pay would be commensurate.

“We’ve all wondered if a quality quarterback actually hit the market in his 20s where he had six or seven years left to play and total unrestricted free agency, what is his real market value?” Banner said. “We don’t know that. No one has had that opportunity or had the patience to get tagged twice. He’s now very close and in complete control and whether or not that happens, that’s a powerful place to be.”

HEROHAMO wrote:So much garbage from a benchwarmer probably waterboy. All I did was say that your opinions sucked and suggested you were unathletic. But you got butthurt and spewed out your true colors. I don't even know you but I must have hit some truth for you to respond in such a way.

Anytime anyone has anything negative to say about Kirks play you get butthurt. Yet all I have ever said about him was the truth.

I'll support any player who can bring a SuperBowl to this team.

I've said before that we should offer Kirk a contract just not as the highest paid player in NFL history.

Keeping Kirk with a reasonable contract would be smart and I've said that many times.

Your the one who can't face the possibility of this team losing Kirk for a couple draft picks.

I didn't create this situation moron! Kirk himself wants to get tagged!

So I advocate for the Skins to get as much compensation in the event that Kirk leaves and how is that stupid?

So the Gibbs era is over? Newsflash Gibbs is still the last coach to win a playoff game for this team. Even Gibbs 2.0 got us a playoff win. Gruden and Kirk still have not won a playoff game.

What exactly are you implying by Gibbs era is over?
If you mean a strong running game and good defense can't win championships anymore you're wrong.

Just watch what's going to happen in Dallas the next ten years. Dallas is going to lead the league in rushing and probably win a SuperBowl or two and dominate the league. With the same formula Gibbs started. What bothers me most is that Dallas basically copied what Gibbs did. Now Dallas is basically going to do it all over again.

Football is not complicated at all. Sorry to break it you. You get the most physically imposing front seven on both sides of the ball and you'll win 9 out of ten times.

You see I'm not your regular Redskins fan from D.C.
I come from Los Angeles. Lakers town. Ten plus championships. USC proud tradition of winning.

Not just you but many Skins fans especially young have become so used to the Snyder era of losing. So much so that when a mediocre Redskins team comes along they are satisfied. They are so fearful of returning to irrelevance that they will settle for the best in a long time even if it's not good enough.

You can call me whatever names you want doesn't bother me. I guess I started it.

If butthurt is wanting to correct you when you are consistently wrong ---- then yes, I'm butthurt. As far as "true colors" --- not sure what you mean. You got personal; I really didn't. I called you what you appear based on your post --- an @sshole. Even you said you started it..... You also said I was things that I'm not. I get more upset about falsehoods than truth. It's very easy to hide behind a keyboard and be tough. I don't deal with those types in reality, just places like this.

But I am unquestionably a Cousins fan and consistently accurate on this board. If you don't like my opinions, then you don't like reality or accuracy. That's on you. If you don't understand the game, oh well. The greatest flaw is not knowing what you don't know. It appears that is one of yours. I get "butthurt" when people make flawed and incorrect statements because they are butthurt RGIII fans, like yourself. I also agree when they are accurate --- as I did with your NYG assertion.

As far as your "opinions" -- your logic is consistent wrong and it's frustrating to read. DAL had a last place schedule. They got bounced in the first round. Then you spout how we haven't won playoff games as a reason for change ---- and we need to model our team off one.... that hasn't won playoff games. WTF???

Teams without QBs don't consistently win, no matter how good their RB or DEF is. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you. You say you will only support players that can bring a SB to this franchise ---- yet you want to get rid of our most valuable one at the most valuable position and replace them with an inferior player that will absolutely not win a playoff game. You just don't make sense. Your logic is flawed --- unless you are saying our FO can assemble a DEF like the 2000 Ravens...... which is a joke on so many levels.

And football is complicated. Like, real complicated. Again --- you just don't know what you don't know. It is hard to explain something to someone that won't understand it. There are so many factors and determinables that need to be analyzed it's crazy. Front 7 is important, but that doesn't get you to a 90% winning percentage. Sorry. Not a chance. I have found in my profession that the underperformers are ones that oversimplify or think that things are easier than they are. The overperformers can make it sound simple, but understand all the complexities. I think you have listened to overperformers and took it at face value without realizing the complexity. Just a guess....

And yes, the Gibbs era of FOOTBALL is over. Sorry. You need a QB to be consistent. RBs have shorter lives (Riggins played was our leading rusher until he was 36 --- F&*$ing 36!!!). WRs have shorter lives (Monk was 36 when he left the skins). OLs and TEs get injured FAR more often. QBs are now the constant. Without them, you won't win CONSISTENTLY. And historically, a strong run game and DEF don't win SBs (since 1990, I'd say only 1 team -- 2000 BAL --- fits that description). If you don't get that, I can't help you.....

Now, I understand your sentiment if you believe Cousins should be signed to a fair deal --- roughly about 22-24M per year. But you don't sound like that is the case. And you are 100% in that I don't want to face the possibility of losing Cousins for a couple picks. That would be a horrible scenario. And I agree that if Cousins undeniably wants out, we have to get the most for him (as I have said previously). I just don't know if that is correct.

And oh man, LA. What a town.....

SkinsJock wrote:the FO and Cousins' camp are far apart in their evaluation of what Cousins is worth so they both are posturing to get the most out of a situation where Cousins' camp 'know' they have all the leverage - this means a lot more to the fans than it does to the FO
the FO doesn't care because they have never really thought that Cousins is, or will be, a really good NFL QB

NO. Unless by "FO" you mean Danny boy and Allen ONLY.

Danny boy & Allen are far apart from their evaluation of what Cousins is worth when compared to what Scot & Gruden think Cousins is worth. Big difference.

It appears Scot and Gruden are sold on Cousins. The new "dumb and dumber" are the ones that are "evaluating".....

It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is - we need to get as much as we can for him and not let him just play for a year and then leave

The Redskins do not need to panic about who is playing QB this season, we were not winning the NFC East or the Super Bowl with Cousins

we need to keep building this franchise as we have since Scot got here and hopefully next season we'll have a new young QB




IF Snyder is involved with player decisions, it really doesn't matter all that much anyway - Kirk Cousins is a lot better off not being here

markshark84 wrote:It appears Scot & Gruden are sold on Cousins. The new "dumb and dumber" are the ones that are "evaluating" players

IF that is the case then a lot of fans will be leaving this site and it really does not matter who we bring in here or who we let go

The dude is going to get traded. He is NOT a Franchise QB. He is a pick throwing choker who cant win big games, win in primetime, beat winning teams or really make a difference. If we can get 2 firsts for this stiff we will be soooooo lucky. Captain Pick is fools gold. If SF wants to trade we should def make it happen.

Now fire Fat Gruden. The guy is an idiot like KC is a choker.

hitmandm wrote:The dude is going to get traded. He is NOT a Franchise QB. He is a pick throwing choker who cant win big games, win in primetime, beat winning teams or really make a difference. If we can get 2 firsts for this stiff we will be soooooo lucky. Captain Pick is fools gold. If SF wants to trade we should def make it happen.

Now fire Fat Gruden. The guy is an idiot like KC is a choker.

If you want two first round picks..you don't want a trade!

SkinsJock wrote:It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is

I don't know where you're getting that information. Nobody knows for sure what the Redskins think.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is

I don't know where you're getting that information. Nobody knows for sure what the Redskins think.

I'm FORTUNATELY not in the DC area anymore but it sounds like a lot of the "buzz" around Redskins Park is that the FO is trying to counter the very strong leverage that Cousins is enjoying

this FO will NOT let Cousins play for a season and then leave - if they think that he's not signing a reasonable long term deal, then they will move on and get the best they can for him

whether Cousins is here or not, this franchise needs a QB that's better than Cousins - this will happen

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is

I don't know where you're getting that information. Nobody knows for sure what the Redskins think.

Agree. It is Danny boy that isn't convinced. Scot is on record calling Cousins a franchise player -- which is why I was so confused about the current state of affairs...... until the Danny-Bruce dynamic thing surfaced. Then it all became VERY clear. Danny boy is still ostensibly calling the shots, at least the "big" shots as he previously had..... similarly to reports that Danny would want to pick only the first rounders, then pass the remaining draft off to the scouts/Vinny/Allen/Shanahan.

It appears nothing has changed.

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is

... It is Danny boy that isn't convinced. Scot is on record calling Cousins a franchise player -- which is why I was so confused about the current state of affairs...... until the Danny-Bruce dynamic thing surfaced. Then it all became VERY clear. Danny boy is still ostensibly calling the shots, at least the "big" shots as he previously had..... similarly to reports that Danny would want to pick only the first rounders, then pass the remaining draft off to the scouts/Vinny/Allen/Shanahan. It appears nothing has changed.

WRONG - this franchise has changed - the FO is now managed by Bruce and Scot - the FO may not be unanimous in their support for Cousins but that is not that big of a deal - this franchise is not winning the NFC East or a playoff game just because we have Kirk Cousins playing QB

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:It appears that the Redskins are not convinced that Cousins is as good as everybody with any sense, thinks he is

I don't know where you're getting that information. Nobody knows for sure what the Redskins think.

I'm FORTUNATELY not in the DC area anymore but it sounds like a lot of the "buzz" around Redskins Park is that the FO is trying to counter the very strong leverage that Cousins is enjoying

this FO will NOT let Cousins play for a season and then leave - if they think that he's not signing a reasonable long term deal, then they will move on and get the best they can for him

whether Cousins is here or not, this franchise needs a QB that's better than Cousins - this will happen

Who is this QB that's better than Cousins and readily available?

SkinsJock wrote:WRONG - this franchise has changed - the FO is now managed by Bruce and Scot - the FO may not be unanimous in their support for Cousins but that is not that big of a deal - this franchise is not winning the NFC East or a playoff game just because we have Kirk Cousins playing QB

I think it's cute that you believe this ---- sort of like an 8th grader that still believes in Santa or the easter bunny or (not as "cute") a chick that takes back her boyfriend right after he cheated on her for the 8th time. And I hate to break it to you, but Allen=Snyder. They are one and the same. Similar to the Vinny situation. A tiger don't change their strips.

Scot is on record supporting Cousin as a player and on a high end LTD. It was clearly squashed by Allen/Snyder.

Calling Cousins a franchise/pro bowl player before last season....
http://www.espn980.com/2016/07/29/audio ... r-galette/

Wanting to sign him to a BIG LTD
May 3rd: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/kirk ... eal-050316
April: http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washingto ... rk-cousins

Fast forward to July 15th after Scot had to get things "approved" by Snyder/Allen....... And the low ball offer..... No one in their right mind would consider a 24M guaranteed contract as "big" considering he was guaranteed 20M no matter what happened. CLEARLY something changed via decisions made ABOVE Scot's head........ and perhaps this is WHY Scot isn't allowed to speak to the media......
http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washingto ... ract-talks

You put the pieces together and it's clear.

And the fact you say: this franchise is not winning the NFC East or a playoff game just because we have Kirk Cousins playing QB --- when compared against all your other "predictions" --- makes Cousins winning the NFC East/Playoff game/etc. almost an absolute certainty!!!

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:WRONG - this franchise has changed - the FO is now managed by Bruce and Scot - the FO may not be unanimous in their support for Cousins but that is not that big of a deal - this franchise is not winning the NFC East or a playoff game just because we have Kirk Cousins playing QB

I think it's cute that you believe this ---- sort of like an 8th grader that still believes in Santa or the easter bunny or (not as "cute") a chick that takes back her boyfriend right after he cheated on her for the 8th time. And I hate to break it to you, but Allen=Snyder. They are one and the same. Similar to the Vinny situation. A tiger don't change their strips.

WRONG AGAIN, SIR. Santa is REAL. Opinion may not be unanimous concerning the easter bunny but that is not that big of a deal - the eggs will get delivered one way or another.

I'm getting really concerned with the new dynamic about Allen still being in charge and SM being more of a talent evaluator and not a "true GM". Knowing how close C00ley is to Allen, it would not surprise me at all if these current SM comments by C00ley were a way to place blame at the feet of SM when the Skins screw up resigning Kirk, even though it's ultimately a Allen/Snyder decision.

PAPDOG67 wrote: Who is this QB that's better than Cousins and readily available?

I never said that there is a QB that is readily available that is better than Cousins

we're not going to get a lot better with Cousins as the QB and I'm looking forward to finding a new QB and getting him ready in the next few years because this kid is not a winner, he's just a good NFL QB - we need a better one

who do you think will win a playoff game first - Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins? If you have good talent evaluators, it doesn't take long
If you think that Dan Snyder is involved here, then it really does not matter if we keep Cousins or not - we're NOT winning a Super Bowl

StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm getting really concerned with the new dynamic about Allen still being in charge and SM being more of a talent evaluator and not a "true GM". Knowing how close C00ley is to Allen, it would not surprise me at all if these current SM comments by C00ley were a way to place blame at the feet of SM when the Skins screw up resigning Kirk, even though it's ultimately a Allen/Snyder decision.

I'm concerned too. Thought this was a great comment I read from Rich Tandler this AM:

"One of the problems with changing what has been a longstanding practice and going into radio silence is that it leaves people speculating. If the team doesn’t want to put any information out there that is the organization’s option. But if you choose not to fill in the blanks, the fans and media will."

Kinda nailed it, IMO.

SkinsJock wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote: Who is this QB that's better than Cousins and readily available?

I never said that there is a QB that is readily available that is better than Cousins

we're not going to get a lot better with Cousins as the QB and I'm looking forward to finding a new QB and getting him ready in the next few years because this kid is not a winner, he's just a good NFL QB - we need a better one

who do you think will win a playoff game first - Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins? If you have good talent evaluators, it doesn't take long
If you think that Dan Snyder is involved here, then it really does not matter if we keep Cousins or not - we're NOT winning a Super Bowl

Boy, good thing ATL didn't get rid of Matty Ice a few years ago when there was chatter about him not being able to win a playoff game.

PAPDOG67 wrote:good thing ATL didn't get rid of Matty Ice a few years ago when there was chatter about him not being able to win a playoff game.

nobody wants to get rid of Cousins - we'd like him to stay here and help this franchise until we can get someone else ready to play better

not long ago, there was talk that we could end up with 2 #1 picks for Cousins and I hope we do because I don't think he wants to be here

John Keim of ESPN.com reports that Cousins would accept a trade only to the 49ers. It’s a match that flows clearly and obviously from the dot-connecting process sparked by former Washington offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan’s emergence as the presumed successor to Chip Kelly in San Francisco.

So why would Cousins be able to block a trade to any other team? While, in theory, any player under contract can be traded anywhere (absent a no-trade clause), no team is going to give Washington significant compensation for a one-year, $23.94 million deal that has no security for the new team beyond 2017. It therefore becomes critical for any trade talks to include contract negotiations, so that the team that acquires Cousins from Washington will have him under contract for multiple years.

As I have said Kirk has options and can force a trade. The Skins best option right now (they know if Kirk wants to be here) is to Tag him and allow him to see what he is worth...If he still wants to be here he can give the Skins the opportunity to match any offer, if not the Skins need to work out a trade...Because no one is giving us 2 number 1's...how awkward would it be for him to play under the FT in 2017 now??

I predict he will get the exclusive franchise tag today.

riggofan wrote:I predict he will get the exclusive franchise tag today.

What makes you say that

DEHog wrote:

riggofan wrote:I predict he will get the exclusive franchise tag today.

What makes you say that

They don't call me Football Nostradamus for nothing.

With Kirk getting the exclusive tag. I wonder if that means they are more likely to sign him. Or a more negotiable likely trade?