Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

Post by SkinsJock »

riggofan wrote:Even if Kirk is obviously not "the answer", he still may end up being the best option for us next year. I'm not sure there is any veteran FA who is going to come in here and do any better. You? And hard for me to imagine the team taking a 1st round QB next year. We'll see though.

+1 - Kirk may be the best option - it would be great if he stepped up and showed he's better than some of us think

Kirk has improved he just needs to take the next step and prove that he's not an up and down player like he has been
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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StorminMormon86 wrote:Barring a total meltdown for the remainder of the season, I don't see how Snyder fires Gruden at years end. And even if it happened, Scot will still be here. And the constant references to "football people" deciding on Cousins over Griffin are Scot and Gruden. So if Scot doesn't think Griffin is good enough to start over Cousins, what makes you think he'll be starting here next year with or without Gruden as the head coach?
Snyder should not be making the decision about Gruden - Scot will decide (with Snyder) if Gruden's performance this season is good enough to warrant bringing him back
Scot as the GM is hopefully in charge of all the FO decisions - Scot is hopefully not involved with who is playing QB or any other position

Gruden should be making the decision on who plays QB

IMO the only reason Griffin is here is he's not worth trading and the FO wants to see how this season goes under Gruden
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

Post by riggofan »

markshark84 wrote:The only way we potentially lock him up and make his ability to move on is by franchising him (and this may be what you are saying by how much we want to keep him). He isn't worth that kind of $$$, but if he wants out, there will be multiple teams willing to sign him as their QB1.


Yeah that's what I was saying. And there's no potentially about it. If we really really really want him we can always franchise tag. (Not that I see that happening.)

Its hard to know for sure what Kirk might be thinking at the end of this year. With some other possible opportunities out there, would he jump at any chance to get out of DC, away from the media circus and the Dan Snyder freakshow? Or would it be more valuable to him to have another year with Gruden in the same offense with a young team?

Still a lot of football to play so who knows. We may well be running him out of town by mid December for all we know now. :D
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

Post by riggofan »

markshark84 wrote:
hitmandm wrote:Kirk will not get extended. He is too inconsistent to get a contract. Kirk is Gruden's guy so what does that tell you about Gruden. He's likely gone. And RG3 is on the roster.


I don't think that will be the case, but ok. It also appears that Kirk is Scot's guy too. Regardless, it seems like you are very confident in this. I'll make a note of it for future use.....


That guy is completely delusional.

Take a look around the league. There is some terrible QB play going on out there. Cousins by most measures is dead middle of the pack so far this year. Not horrible, not great. I agree that he's been inconsistent to date, but its freaking insane to judge consistency over what... seven games?

RG3 is on the roster... give me a freaking break.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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There is certainly no guarantee that Griffin is a part of this roster going forward even if Cousins does not continue to show that he can play QB

The QB job here in 2016 is Cousins' if he continues to show that he is a lot more consistent and less prone to turning the ball over

Griffin's status as a QB here is very tenuous at best


geez people - let's give these guys a chance to show what they've got - I'm not sure they can or can't but I do think they deserve a chance
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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riggofan wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
hitmandm wrote:Kirk will not get extended. He is too inconsistent to get a contract. Kirk is Gruden's guy so what does that tell you about Gruden. He's likely gone. And RG3 is on the roster.


I don't think that will be the case, but ok. It also appears that Kirk is Scot's guy too. Regardless, it seems like you are very confident in this. I'll make a note of it for future use.....


That guy is completely delusional.

Take a look around the league. There is some terrible QB play going on out there. Cousins by most measures is dead middle of the pack so far this year. Not horrible, not great. I agree that he's been inconsistent to date, but its freaking insane to judge consistency over what... seven games?

RG3 is on the roster... give me a freaking break.

Well define delusional...I see some Colts fans calling for Luck's head this morning :shock:
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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DEHog wrote:
riggofan wrote:That guy is completely delusional.

Take a look around the league. There is some terrible QB play going on out there. Cousins by most measures is dead middle of the pack so far this year. Not horrible, not great. I agree that he's been inconsistent to date, but its freaking insane to judge consistency over what... seven games?

RG3 is on the roster... give me a freaking break.

Well define delusional...I see some Colts fans calling for Luck's head this morning :shock:

What are the chances he get's benched for the backup and is in street clothes on Sunday? :twisted:
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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DEHog wrote:Well define delusional...I see some Colts fans calling for Luck's head this morning :shock:


I think you just defined it pretty well!
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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SkinsJock wrote:There is certainly no guarantee that Griffin is a part of this roster going forward even if Cousins does not continue to show that he can play QB


Forget about any personal opinions regarding RG3, man. Love him or hate him, not really the question anymore. It will cost the team $16m to keep him on the roster next year. Do you honestly see that happening? How could they possibly justify that?
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:There is certainly no guarantee that Griffin is a part of this roster going forward even if Cousins does not continue to show that he can play QB
Forget about any personal opinions regarding RG3, man. Love him or hate him, not really the question anymore. It will cost the team $16m to keep him on the roster next year. Do you honestly see that happening? How could they possibly justify that?
RG3 is here because of Dan Snyder - nobody with any sense could justify RG3 being here in 2016 ... just saying :lol:

Honestly, I don't see RG3 being here, but if Dan Snyder is the owner in 2016, anything is possible - we could even have Jay Gruden as HC :wink:
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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riggofan wrote:Forget about any personal opinions regarding RG3, man. Love him or hate him, not really the question anymore. It will cost the team $16m to keep him on the roster next year. Do you honestly see that happening? How could they possibly justify that?

Which for the life of me I can't see why they picked up the opition?? The only way and I mean only way you would have picked up the opiton is if you think he was your starter (for ALL 16 games) this year!! Now by doing what they did they've ensured that they will get nothing in return for him.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:the constant references to "football people" deciding on Cousins over Griffin are Scot and Gruden. So if Scot doesn't think Griffin is good enough to start over Cousins, what makes you think he'll be starting here next year with or without Gruden as the head coach?

It's not Scot's job to decide who starts, and he has said as much. He brings in the players and Gruden decides who plays.

Right, but if the "football people" are all in on Cousins for this season, that tells you what the opinion is of Griffin. Scot will make the decisions on who stays and who goes next year.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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SkinsJock wrote:RG3 is here because of Dan Snyder - nobody with any sense could justify RG3 being here in 2016 ... just saying :lol:


I can't argue that one - you are 100% correct. The only person who would decide to pay him $16m next year is Snyder.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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StorminMormon86 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:the constant references to "football people" deciding on Cousins over Griffin are Scot and Gruden. So if Scot doesn't think Griffin is good enough to start over Cousins, what makes you think he'll be starting here next year with or without Gruden as the head coach?
It's not Scot's job to decide who starts, and he has said as much. He brings in the players and Gruden decides who plays.
Right, but if the "football people" are all in on Cousins for this season, that tells you what the opinion is of Griffin. Scot will make the decisions on who stays and who goes next year.

good work, you're almost there ... The FO and the coaches made it quite clear what they thought of Griffin when they made Cousins the starting QB - Dan Snyder (and possibly Bruce Allen) must have persuaded Scot to keep Griffin because I doubt that Scot wanted to - so, now we have Dan Snyder's QB sitting on the sidelines for no good reason ...

If Scot was fully in charge, Griffin would not be here - that is a bit of a concern for some here :twisted:
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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StorminMormon86 wrote:https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/661559995377545221

Can't do twitter at work. What does this say?
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/661559995377545221

Can't do twitter at work. What does this say?



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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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riggofan wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
hitmandm wrote:Kirk will not get extended. He is too inconsistent to get a contract. Kirk is Gruden's guy so what does that tell you about Gruden. He's likely gone. And RG3 is on the roster.


I don't think that will be the case, but ok. It also appears that Kirk is Scot's guy too. Regardless, it seems like you are very confident in this. I'll make a note of it for future use.....


That guy is completely delusional.

Take a look around the league. There is some terrible QB play going on out there. Cousins by most measures is dead middle of the pack so far this year. Not horrible, not great. I agree that he's been inconsistent to date, but its freaking insane to judge consistency over what... seven games?

RG3 is on the roster... give me a freaking break.


Cousins is 23rd in passer rating, and that is after the game of his life. He hasn't been consistent over any span of games this year or last.

Until last game, RG3 without his 2012 year factored in still had a better Passer rating that Captain Pick.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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markshark84 wrote:
hitmandm wrote:Kirk will not get extended. He is too inconsistent to get a contract. Kirk is Gruden's guy so what does that tell you about Gruden. He's likely gone. And RG3 is on the roster.


I don't think that will be the case, but ok. It also appears that Kirk is Scot's guy too. Regardless, it seems like you are very confident in this. I'll make a note of it for future use.....

hitmandm wrote:Gruden was brought in explicitly to fix RG3. After getting the contract and saying the right things, Gruden double crossed ownership by the third preseason game of his first year and started the anti-RG3 movement that he was hired to prevent.


So RGIII's play had nothing to do with the "anti-RGIII movement". Nothing? His 2 straight years of bottom 3 QBR didn't have anything to do with the "anti" movement???? What about the fact a -- as you say -- backup is playing significantly and unquestionably better than RGIII has since his 2012 year.

And Gruden "double crossed" ownership? Gruden was brought in to win games, not to (as you indirectly say) babysit RGIII. If a HC doesn't think a player will produce, you move on. That is what coaching is all about. This isn't grade school football. RGIII isn't the coaches son (although he is the owners little pet, so you actually may have a point there).

hitmandm wrote: Reports said that Snyder called Gruden's agent saying that his client is stealing money.


Link please. Otherwise, it just makes you look like a bitter RGIII fan (and therefore anti-Gruden since he won't play RGIII --- just because, since there is actually no factual or logical reason to play RGIII based on his post-2012 production).

hitmandm wrote:If Gruden was in favor with the top of Redskin football, his guy would get extended.


Sound confident. No chance Kirk would structure a deal right now and neither would the skins. That would happen in the offseason. Also, who gets a deal has MUCH more to do with the GM. It has very little to do with the HC.

hitmandm wrote:Teams want QBs and they would take a shot on RG3 if he rearranges his contract.


What are you saying? That teams would trade for RGIII now if he'd restructure his deal? Reports have been that there is no interest in RGIII. If a team came and told RGIII that he'd be the starter if he restructured his deal, he'd be a fool not to do it. So, logic causes me to think he hasn't been approached with a similar deal.

hitmandm wrote:Because he knows that Gruden is fired and Cosuins is just a backup. RG3 is Snyder's guy and Gruden betrayed Snyder and therefore has no trust from ownership.


I had said I see your point in this regard. And again, if that is the case, the organization is as F---ed up as it has ever been.

And the fact RGIII is Snyder's guy -- an owner that has literally taken a hot steaming dump on this franchises' history --- says alot.

hitmandm wrote:And don't think Scott will save Gruden and Cosuins. Scott has been here less than a year. Scott isn't stupid to think he can run roughshot over an NFL owner.


I think you are underestimating the resolve Scot has in himself. I personally think he is not going to bend over to Danny like a little b!#$%. He understands that the only consistency Danny has in the NFL is failure. He also knows that if he fails here, his career as an NFL FO exec is over. If it were me in that position, I would rather be fired than go against something I thought would make my franchise successful. I wouldn't give 2 craps what my idiotic owner's opinion was on the HC or QB. I'd do what I thought was best. If it got me fired, oh well. I think (or more so HOPE) Scot is the same way.


Well you (and everyone else) know my position on this. If you are right, I will eat it and admit it as often as you like. The fun is predicting what will happen. We will see.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

Post by StorminMormon86 »

So basically there's a theory that was floated around on the radio as to why the Skins will keep Griffin this year:

-Snyder did not want him to be cut so he could go to a divisional opponent.
-Cutting him outright would not only come with the threat of a divisional opponent, but a cap hit (not sure how much or how accurate this part is).
-There was no interest from other teams to acquire him, so a trade was not an option.
-The team is actually helping Griffin by not suiting him up and letting him play. There is no bad tape on Griffin this year. No bad stats. No win/loss column. Essentially, 2016 will be a clean slate for Griffin.
-Obviously, the team doesn't want to pay the $16 million option, so that's another reason to not play him.
-He will get released next year, which would be the best time for him to find a new home. That way he could find a team, workout all offseason with them, and go from there.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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hitmandm wrote:Cousins is 23rd in passer rating, and that is after the game of his life. He hasn't been consistent over any span of games this year or last.

Until last game, RG3 without his 2012 year factored in still had a better Passer rating that Captain Pick.

And what was Griffin's record as a starter for the last 7 games he started? 1-6. I'll take Captain Pick, thank you.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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hitmandm wrote:Cousins is 23rd in passer rating, and that is after the game of his life. He hasn't been consistent over any span of games this year or last.

Until last game, RG3 without his 2012 year factored in still had a better Passer rating that Captain Pick.


Passer Rating is the least educated manner of judging a player. Jay Cutler's career passer rating is 85.3. Sonny Jurgensen's career passer rating was 82.6.

Who wants Jay over Sonny? Anyone? <crickets> [-X
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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I think Cousin detractors are going to be encouraged by the next three games because I believe the Skins will lose and Kirk will probably play poorly in at least one of them. Than to their great sadness the Skins will rally in the remaining 5 games and win 3 or 4 of them to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and then much to their horror and disgust the Redskins will extent Kirk to lock him in as their franchise QB.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

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StorminMormon86 wrote:He will get released next year, which would be the best time for him to find a new home. That way he could find a team, workout all offseason with them, and go from there.

Depends on when we release him. It may benefit RGIII to release him early, but not be in the team's best interest. It will be interesting to see if Scot holds onto his rights until the last minute, or let's him go and wishes him the best.
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Re: Gotta Start Cousins 16 Times This Year...

Post by Burgundy&GoldForever »

Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:He will get released next year, which would be the best time for him to find a new home. That way he could find a team, workout all offseason with them, and go from there.

Depends on when we release him. It may benefit RGIII to release him early, but not be in the team's best interest. It will be interesting to see if Scot holds onto his rights until the last minute, or let's him go and wishes him the best.


It's in the team's best interests. There's nothing to be gained by holding onto a player with a huge injury clause in his contract. No team is giving up a pick for a player when they know he's going to be cut. He's taking a roster spot away from another player. He'll be gone by training camp because they don't want him anywhere near the field.
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