The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If there is something good about the QB situation it's that Griffin was obviously struggling and while he was maybe not far off the fact is that Cousins has a lot more time playing in this style of offense - there is little doubt that Cousins was not getting an opportunity to start while Griffin was showing (to the coaches at least) progress with the demands being put upon him

Now we are going to see Cousins play and showcase his ability and I hope that he's really good for however long he gets to play - in the coming weeks, we'll all get to see how he does against some pretty good defenses - he has not played well when he's been pressured and that maybe because he's not been starting - now that he's had weeks to practice (and play) it will be good to see how he does against Seattle and Arizona in back to back weeks

Even so - we should be 4-2 before the bye week (5-4) ....

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team. All of this talk of being "Robert's team" is just PC.

you obviously don't get it

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team.

Not sure why this would even be controversial or why anybody would doubt it. If Cousins was truly content being the backup, he wouldn't be much of a competitor.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team.

Not sure why this would even be controversial or why anybody would doubt it. If Cousins was truly content being the backup, he wouldn't be much of a competitor.

EXACTLY

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team. All of this talk of being "Robert's team" is just PC.

I agree. I think he should stop saying it.

Cousins just needs to stop talking and continue playing well

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team.

Not sure why this would even be controversial or why anybody would doubt it. If Cousins was truly content being the backup, he wouldn't be much of a competitor.

Czaban believes Cousins "knows his role" on this team. He honestly thinks Cousins is just here to backup Griffin, playing for the chance to get traded to another team.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team.

Not sure why this would even be controversial or why anybody would doubt it. If Cousins was truly content being the backup, he wouldn't be much of a competitor.

Czaban believes Cousins "knows his role" on this team. He honestly thinks Cousins is just here to backup Griffin, playing for the chance to get traded to another team.

That's what was thought in NE too, that Brady was just there to back up Bledsoe...

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team.

Not sure why this would even be controversial or why anybody would doubt it. If Cousins was truly content being the backup, he wouldn't be much of a competitor.

Czaban believes Cousins "knows his role" on this team. He honestly thinks Cousins is just here to backup Griffin, playing for the chance to get traded to another team.

hah. Czaban is a goof, that's crazy talk. I kind of agree that may have been Cousins role and his understanding over the past two years. But getting the chance to be the starter for at least the next two months, his role on the team has completely changed.

I want what's best for the Redskins and that is that Cousins plays lights out at QB until Griffin is able to show that he's the better QB

If it happens that Griffin cannot clearly demonstrate that he's the better QB then we have to hope that Cousins can be the man ...

Until that happens .... why would ANY Redskins fan NOT hope and look forward to Griffin becoming a great QB

GO KIRK ... beat the Giants ...

SkinsJock wrote:Until that happens .... why would ANY Redskins fan NOT hope and look forward to Griffin becoming a great QB

It's not that people want Robert to fail (I'm sure some do, which is sad), it's that people want Cousins to succeed. IMO, after 2013 and the preseason and first game of 2014, people are scared to death that Griffin is not "the man" they thought him to be in 2012. Now they're clinging onto the hope that Cousins can become "the man" for the future.

DarthMonk wrote:

OldSchool wrote:It's really too bad your otherwise strong posts are littered with phrases like "absolutely no aptitude," "no progress whatsoever," "gimmick," and "the hapless Griffin." You make really good points and I think you are spot on concerning Cousins but all this other stuff comes off as Griffin hate as opposed to your so-called attempt to be "to be fair and objective in [your] analysis.

I do regard the read option as a gimmick and unsustainable strategy for 19 game campaign in the NFL. You may think the read option is a viable offense in the NFL I don't, even in the more physical college conferences the QBs running the read option get beat up and don't finish seasons. and I think teams will stop using it.

I criticized Griffin's performance and lack of skills that is not hatred don't you understand the difference? I watched Griffin in the preseason games and in the Houston game I didn't discern any real degree of competence, confidence or command of the Gruden offense. Maybe you were more encouraged than me by his performances but to me he looked lost and I'm out of patience. Griffin looked uncomfortable and in effective in the pocket in 2013 also, in my view he's never demonstrated any real presence and poise in a pocket despite all the work invested in him in 2012, 2013 & 2014. When I saw Gruden reintroduce the read option during the Jacksonville game I concluded that Gruden was disparate not to lose to a second week team because of Griffin's inability to run an WCO. Am I too harsh with Griffin? I don't think so but he's had a lot of time to show progress and the Skins have an alternative that is MUCH farther along in his development. Cousins needs some seasoning and fine tuning but he is so close to being really good out of the blocks I'm optimistic he can continue to improve and become a dominate QB.

emoses14 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

emoses14 wrote:I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

Oh please, can't you recognize Cousins just has the good sense to say the right thing to diffuse the issue but no serious person thinks Cousins' believes this nonsense. If you have listened to Cousins speak he might be the most graceful and diplomatic man in Washington and the smart thing at the moment is stick to the party line regarding Griffin while taking over the job with superior play. Kirk is out grossly performing the hapless Griffin and I'm sure he is confident he can continue to perform at a high level and seize the franchise QB spot in Washington.

A. No, i have the good sense to realize that Cousins knows how to stay in his lane. He's the back up who is playing in place of the injured starter. When that injured starter is no longer injured, Kirk is no longer the starter. This isn't rocket science.

B. IF Cousins is undefeated, has been playing lights out, figures out a way to play better against 5 man rushes/fronts, to play better in second halves once defenses adjust, whatever superlative metric rational people would need to make such a decision, then there's an issue.

C. Of course Cousins believes this. Grown ups understand that wanting to be the starter, hoping to play well enough to be named as such by your coach, and recognizing that you, in fact, are the back up, are not mutually exclusive thoughts. Grown ups can have more than one thought at a time. Cousins, clearly, is a grown up.

And

D. Just because you say something (the highlighted, for instance), over and over doesn't actually make it true. You do realize this, right? Now, you can cherry pick all the stats you like in comparing the two QBs to support either as performing better than the other, so this debate is largely useless. Only time will tell who is the starter and who is gone. Everything now is just conjecture (sorry, I know you want Kirk to be named starter on the strength of his performance on Sunday and in relief of Griffin last week). The only things KC is demonstrably better than Griffin at doing are throwing the ball quickly (this has an upside and downside, by the way) and not getting hurt.

A. Believing Griffin is going to start later this year when his ankle has healed is a belief you may have but it is by no means certain as Gruden as acknowledged. I think believing Griffin is going to start later this year is probably the minority view because while he may have been the starter he hasn't been an accomplished starter. If Cousins keeps the offense humming over the next 6 games or so Griffin is done for the year and maybe for good in Washington.

B. Cousins doesn't have to be undefeated or one of the leagues best to replace an ineffective Griffin, continuing to play well running the offense is more than enough to be a big improvement to replace Griffin who plays poorly when healthy and doesn't understand the offense.

C. We are in agreement Cousins expects to continue out performing Griffin and win the job.

D. Maybe you haven't figured out that playing QB in the WCO is all about thinking fast enough to throw before the break and catch the receiver in stride. Gruden understands this and that is why he has made it clear Griffin is not guaranteed a starting spot because Cousins can do it now while Griffin is a just a project player that doesn't show significant progress if any yet. On two occassions Gruden he has refused to make a declaration that Griffin will start when he is healthy. If Brady, Manning, Breees, Stafford, Rivers or any other QB that ACTUALLY IS a franchise QB was hurt the question wouldn't even be asked but if asked their coaches would say of course our starter is going to start when he is really healthy. Gruden is hoping and probably believing Cousins will continue to perform so well that no decision is necessary to continue with Cousins.

He's a back up qb...giants game and last season. Chant rg3, rg3, rg3...!

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Until that happens .... why would ANY Redskins fan NOT hope and look forward to Griffin becoming a great QB

It's not that people want Robert to fail (I'm sure some do, which is sad), it's that people want Cousins to succeed. IMO, after 2013 and the preseason and first game of 2014, people are scared to death that Griffin is not "the man" they thought him to be in 2012. Now they're clinging onto the hope that Cousins can become "the man" for the future.

I am sure that after what you just saw tonight, you have something to post that can make me feel like Cousins is "the man" ...

go ahead - I need to hear it ...

emoses14 wrote:
A. No, i have the good sense to realize that Cousins knows how to stay in his lane. He's the back up who is playing in place of the injured starter. When that injured starter is no longer injured, Kirk is no longer the starter. This isn't rocket science.

B. IF Cousins is undefeated, has been playing lights out, figures out a way to play better against 5 man rushes/fronts, to play better in second halves once defenses adjust, whatever superlative metric rational people would need to make such a decision, then there's an issue.

C. Of course Cousins believes this. Grown ups understand that wanting to be the starter, hoping to play well enough to be named as such by your coach, and recognizing that you, in fact, are the back up, are not mutually exclusive thoughts. Grown ups can have more than one thought at a time. Cousins, clearly, is a grown up.

And

D. Just because you say something (the highlighted, for instance), over and over doesn't actually make it true. You do realize this, right? Now, you can cherry pick all the stats you like in comparing the two QBs to support either as performing better than the other, so this debate is largely useless. Only time will tell who is the starter and who is gone. Everything now is just conjecture (sorry, I know you want Kirk to be named starter on the strength of his performance on Sunday and in relief of Griffin last week). The only things KC is demonstrably better than Griffin at doing are throwing the ball quickly (this has an upside and downside, by the way) and not getting hurt.

OldSchool wrote:A. Believing Griffin is going to start later this year when his ankle has healed is a belief you may have but it is by no means certain as Gruden as acknowledged. I think believing Griffin is going to start later this year is probably the minority view because while he may have been the starter he hasn't been an accomplished starter. If Cousins keeps the offense humming over the next 6 games or so Griffin is done for the year and maybe for good in Washington. .

It may not be certain, but I certainly know what Gruden is wishing for after that abomination Cousins just layed down.

OldSchool wrote:B. Cousins doesn't have to be undefeated or one of the leagues best to replace an ineffective Griffin, continuing to play well running the offense is more than enough to be a big improvement to replace Griffin who plays poorly when healthy and doesn't understand the offense. .

Cousins wouldn't be replacing an ineffective Griffin it would be a injured Griffin. Ineffective is your opinion. And I'm certain Griffin on his worst day has never been as ineffective as Cousins was against the Giants. I've seen Cousins play way beyond himself and a bit below himself. He is precisely what we thought he was. A QB that EVERY team in the league passed on for a reason in 2012. He's a good back up, that's it. You pointed out previously that Griffin had never had a game like Cousins' against philly. Well, guess what else Griffin's never done. Thrown four interceptions and fumbled the ball all in one game. I like Cousins, but this perception that he's better than Griffin is straight laughable.

OldSchool wrote:C. We are in agreement Cousins expects to continue out performing Griffin and win the job.

D. Maybe you haven't figured out that playing QB in the WCO is all about thinking fast enough to throw before the break and catch the receiver in stride. Gruden understands this and that is why he has made it clear Griffin is not guaranteed a starting spot because Cousins can do it now while Griffin is a just a project player that doesn't show significant progress if any yet. On two occassions Gruden he has refused to make a declaration that Griffin will start when he is healthy. If Brady, Manning, Breees, Stafford, Rivers or any other QB that ACTUALLY IS a franchise QB was hurt the question wouldn't even be asked but if asked their coaches would say of course our starter is going to start when he is really healthy. Gruden is hoping and probably believing Cousins will continue to perform so well that no decision is necessary to continue with Cousins.

Of course Gruden isn't going to undermine the confidence of the guy he needs to QB his team right now. Please tell me you're able to understand that. Clearly, Cousins needs all the support he can get. Game managers don't win games, obviously, they just make sure not to lose them. Cousins needs to start there before we anoint him Griffin's successor. Griffin will be in the starting line up just as soon as he's able to be.

Looks like Emoses has this covered...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Looks like Emoses has this covered...

Yup. He made a better post than my stop the nonsense post lol

Cousins has to curb his disparate gunslinger response when behind if he wants to become a starter. It is a fixable problem in my opinion but a recurring one Kirk has to stop it. It's one thing to come in cold off the bench guns blazing at the end of the game when the team is behind and frantically try to make something happen. It is much different for a starter to get reckless and seal his team's fate. Kirk was really stupid to allow himself to play reckless in the second half.

After two good games Kirk had begun to earn the trust of his teammates and coaches. Everyone has seen how he can play well but unfortunately Cousins has shown the team he hasn't learned how to restrain himself from playing disparate and recklessly. Gruden needs to convince Cousins to patiently take what the defense allows on each possession and not attempt to heroically carry the team when behind. His second half turnovers destroyed any chance they had tonight and severely damaged his standing.

I've see enough of a Griffin to believe he will not be a quality QB in the NFL. I still have some hope for Cousins even after the horrible performance but Kirk won't make it as a starter in the NFL either unless he improves his discipline and eliminates these careless interceptions. Gruden has to use the next couple of games to get him to play smart under duress. It's one thing to lose to the Giants because the defense couldn't handle a mismatch tight end but it's totally different to have that panic a QB into disparate and rash decisions.

emoses14 wrote:

emoses14 wrote:
A. No, i have the good sense to realize that Cousins knows how to stay in his lane. He's the back up who is playing in place of the injured starter. When that injured starter is no longer injured, Kirk is no longer the starter. This isn't rocket science.

B. IF Cousins is undefeated, has been playing lights out, figures out a way to play better against 5 man rushes/fronts, to play better in second halves once defenses adjust, whatever superlative metric rational people would need to make such a decision, then there's an issue.

C. Of course Cousins believes this. Grown ups understand that wanting to be the starter, hoping to play well enough to be named as such by your coach, and recognizing that you, in fact, are the back up, are not mutually exclusive thoughts. Grown ups can have more than one thought at a time. Cousins, clearly, is a grown up.

And

D. Just because you say something (the highlighted, for instance), over and over doesn't actually make it true. You do realize this, right? Now, you can cherry pick all the stats you like in comparing the two QBs to support either as performing better than the other, so this debate is largely useless. Only time will tell who is the starter and who is gone. Everything now is just conjecture (sorry, I know you want Kirk to be named starter on the strength of his performance on Sunday and in relief of Griffin last week). The only things KC is demonstrably better than Griffin at doing are throwing the ball quickly (this has an upside and downside, by the way) and not getting hurt.

OldSchool wrote:A. Believing Griffin is going to start later this year when his ankle has healed is a belief you may have but it is by no means certain as Gruden as acknowledged. I think believing Griffin is going to start later this year is probably the minority view because while he may have been the starter he hasn't been an accomplished starter. If Cousins keeps the offense humming over the next 6 games or so Griffin is done for the year and maybe for good in Washington. .

It may not be certain, but I certainly know what Gruden is wishing for after that abomination Cousins just layed down.

OldSchool wrote:B. Cousins doesn't have to be undefeated or one of the leagues best to replace an ineffective Griffin, continuing to play well running the offense is more than enough to be a big improvement to replace Griffin who plays poorly when healthy and doesn't understand the offense. .

Cousins wouldn't be replacing an ineffective Griffin it would be a injured Griffin. Ineffective is your opinion. And I'm certain Griffin on his worst day has never been as ineffective as Cousins was against the Giants. I've seen Cousins play way beyond himself and a bit below himself. He is precisely what we thought he was. A QB that EVERY team in the league passed on for a reason in 2012. He's a good back up, that's it. You pointed out previously that Griffin had never had a game like Cousins' against philly. Well, guess what else Griffin's never done. Thrown four interceptions and fumbled the ball all in one game. I like Cousins, but this perception that he's better than Griffin is straight laughable.

OldSchool wrote:C. We are in agreement Cousins expects to continue out performing Griffin and win the job.

D. Maybe you haven't figured out that playing QB in the WCO is all about thinking fast enough to throw before the break and catch the receiver in stride. Gruden understands this and that is why he has made it clear Griffin is not guaranteed a starting spot because Cousins can do it now while Griffin is a just a project player that doesn't show significant progress if any yet. On two occassions Gruden he has refused to make a declaration that Griffin will start when he is healthy. If Brady, Manning, Breees, Stafford, Rivers or any other QB that ACTUALLY IS a franchise QB was hurt the question wouldn't even be asked but if asked their coaches would say of course our starter is going to start when he is really healthy. Gruden is hoping and probably believing Cousins will continue to perform so well that no decision is necessary to continue with Cousins.

Of course Gruden isn't going to undermine the confidence of the guy he needs to QB his team right now. Please tell me you're able to understand that. Clearly, Cousins needs all the support he can get. Game managers don't win games, obviously, they just make sure not to lose them. Cousins needs to start there before we anoint him Griffin's successor. Griffin will be in the starting line up just as soon as he's able to be.

The results will be the same no matter who is our QB...in fact, we could have either of the Mannings, Breez, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, or Luck and we'd still be getting our asses kicked...why? Because this is a team sport and our team sucks!

OldSchool wrote:When I saw Gruden reintroduce the read option during the Jacksonville game I concluded that Gruden was disparate not to lose to a second week team because of Griffin's inability to run an WCO.

And what about when Cousins ran the read option last night? Was probably his best play of the game.

HOPEFULLY Griffin will continue to work hard & become the QB that Sean and Jay want - there is little doubt after that performance that Cousins is anything more than just a good back up QB

OBVIOUSLY the OP does not have a clue about QB play in the NFL - we are lucky to have Cousins - he's a very good back up QB

We are going to win some games this season but we have a lot of issues to address and we are certainly not a playoff team with Cousins as the starting QB

Going to be V interesting to see the character of Cousins show itself against the Seahawks and Cardinals

OldSchool wrote:Cousins has to curb his disparate gunslinger response when behind if he wants to become a starter. It is a fixable problem in my opinion but a recurring one Kirk has to stop it. It's one thing to come in cold off the bench guns blazing at the end of the game when the team is behind and frantically try to make something happen. It is much different for a starter to get reckless and seal his team's fate. Kirk was really stupid to allow himself to play reckless in the second half.

After two good games Kirk had begun to earn the trust of his teammates and coaches. Everyone has seen how he can play well but unfortunately Cousins has shown the team he hasn't learned how to restrain himself from playing disparate and recklessly. Gruden needs to convince Cousins to patiently take what the defense allows on each possession and not attempt to heroically carry the team when behind. His second half turnovers destroyed any chance they had tonight and severely damaged his standing.

I've see enough of a Griffin to believe he will not be a quality QB in the NFL. I still have some hope for Cousins even after the horrible performance but Kirk won't make it as a starter in the NFL either unless he improves his discipline and eliminates these careless interceptions. Gruden has to use the next couple of games to get him to play smart under duress. It's one thing to lose to the Giants because the defense couldn't handle a mismatch tight end but it's totally different to have that panic a QB into disparate and rash decisions.

Cousins wasn't "desperate" or reckless last night. His confidence was shaken, and his mechanics broke down as a result. On the final INT, DJ had beaten his man, but KC badly underthrew the ball because he didn't step into the throw. Same thing in the Eagles game at the end. He just misfired that last ball to Garcon. He appears to be a bit of a head case. If he gets rattled, then he loses his effectiveness. This is why he's a better back-up than a starter.

Deadskins wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Cousins has to curb his disparate gunslinger response when behind if he wants to become a starter. It is a fixable problem in my opinion but a recurring one Kirk has to stop it. It's one thing to come in cold off the bench guns blazing at the end of the game when the team is behind and frantically try to make something happen. It is much different for a starter to get reckless and seal his team's fate. Kirk was really stupid to allow himself to play reckless in the second half.

After two good games Kirk had begun to earn the trust of his teammates and coaches. Everyone has seen how he can play well but unfortunately Cousins has shown the team he hasn't learned how to restrain himself from playing disparate and recklessly. Gruden needs to convince Cousins to patiently take what the defense allows on each possession and not attempt to heroically carry the team when behind. His second half turnovers destroyed any chance they had tonight and severely damaged his standing.

I've see enough of a Griffin to believe he will not be a quality QB in the NFL. I still have some hope for Cousins even after the horrible performance but Kirk won't make it as a starter in the NFL either unless he improves his discipline and eliminates these careless interceptions. Gruden has to use the next couple of games to get him to play smart under duress. It's one thing to lose to the Giants because the defense couldn't handle a mismatch tight end but it's totally different to have that panic a QB into disparate and rash decisions.

Cousins wasn't "desperate" or reckless last night. His confidence was shaken, and his mechanics broke down as a result. On the final INT, DJ had beaten his man, but KC badly underthrew the ball because he didn't step into the throw. Same thing in the Eagles game at the end. He just misfired that last ball to Garcon. He appears to be a bit of a head case. If he gets rattled, then he loses his effectiveness. This is why he's a better back-up than a starter.

Kirk Cousins was shook last night! Whats new

Deadskins wrote:

OldSchool wrote:When I saw Gruden reintroduce the read option during the Jacksonville game I concluded that Gruden was disparate not to lose to a second week team because of Griffin's inability to run an WCO.

And what about when Cousins ran the read option last night? Was probably his best play of the game.

You mean the silly elementary school, playground play that doesn't work in the NFL?