Post Game Discussion - Skins/Lions

[old-timer]

The stats are laughable here. Campbell throws for the most silent 340 yards I've ever seen. Portis rushes 12 times for 40 some odd yards, which may make someone who didn't watch the game say "Why didn't you run Portis more?" Problem is, Portis was actually negative in yards at half-time...by the time he got positive yards, the Lions were running a virtual prevent defense.

What bothers me the most about this game isn't that the offense and Jason Campbell (stats notwithstanding) was inept again. I expect nothing more from them.

It's that the defense clearly quit in the first half. They gave up 276 yards of offense to the LIONS in the first half, and could not stop the Lions on 3rd downs, frequently giving up 3rd and longs. That's freaking ridiculous.

When the offense stinks (as it has for as long as I can recall), AND your defense gives up...well, this season is going to be a rough and bumpy ride, folks.

The defense gives up because the team realizes we can't win the way things are going. That's why the team is not upset in the locker room after a loss like this. They realize it's out of their hands.

Zorn is a figurehead coach just like Vinny is a figurehead GM. Zorn has no control over personnel decisions (obviously - when in NFL history has a coach allowed EVERY DRAFT PICK to make the team?)

The team knows that Danny is in charge, and that he'll play Campbell until we're 2-14 rather than give someone else a shot. (It's obvious to me that our offense is totally inept, primarily because of Campbell and a poor offensive line.) Most of the media probably knows too, they're too afraid to say so because their access will be cut off. It's only a whole lot of fans who don't really know what's going on.

[old-timer]

Three large group of posters in this thread:

1. The ones who hoped for the best and have had their hopes dashed

2. The ones who expected things going mediocre and are in pain for seeing the problem well in advance

3. Those who wish to take it on one another and/or players and coaches for the frustration.

People. Good Fans stand with their Team for good and bad, in good times and bad times. Good Fans stand together regardless of their views. I have no doubt about the love you all have for the team. You would not be here in a day like today otherwise.

Stand by your team regardless of the record.

Stand by your fellow fan regardless of the views that you may agree or disagree with. Do not question each others' fanhood please.

Tough times. No question about it.

Hail brothers and sisters !

I'm with you, RiC. But let me just elaborate here. I think there's really two poles when it comes to categorizing Redskins fans: blind support and realism. I think all Redskins fans tend to fall somewhere in between these two extremes. Now of course there's nothing wrong in principle with blind partisanship when it comes to football (as opposed to politics, where blind partisanship is very wrong); I mean, there are no principles at all when it comes to football, except when it comes to acknowledging the absolute evil nature of the Dallas Cowboys. However, when some fans perceive realism as extreme pessimism, even leading them to label realists as non-fans, that's when partisanship has gone too far. And blind partisanship can also lead to extreme disappointment and disillusion with the team, leading people to become true non-fans. I think this is the pitfall that us 35-year plus fans have avoided by becoming realists. We realize that the Redskins exist independently of Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato, Jason Campbell, and any other current player or important actor. We feel free to criticize anyone in the organization, because we've seen them all come and go. I first started watching the Redskins when they were led by Sonny Jurgenson in the mid-60's. I've seen a lot of Redskins football over the years, and lived and died many, many times over. How many fans still remember vividly the bitter wars with Jim Hart and the Cards in the 70's? The Clint Longley game? Mike Thomas? George Allen? I'm not about to become a non-fan just because we're led by an incompetent owner. But no-one should confuse us realists with non-fans just because we've been around too long to be blind partisans. Blind partisanship leads to bitter disillusionment. Better to be a realist, but keep supporting the team.

[Redskin in Canada]

I'm not about to become a non-fan just because we're led by an incompetent owner. But no-one should confuse us realists with non-fans just because we've been around too long to be blind partisans. Blind partisanship leads to bitter disillusionment. Better to be a realist, but keep supporting the team.

Amen.

[Countertrey]

What happened to blind negativism? That doesn't exist?

[chiefhog44]

Marshall Faulk was just on total access ripping the players. Defense in particular saying it's not the coaches, it's the players.

Tony Dungy was on last night saying it's not the coaches, it's management. The team needs a GM and quick.

I think getting rid of Vinny this week and picking up Holmgren would be a very good move. We need a GM

[Countertrey]

I've seen no evidence that Holmgren is a GM.

[skinsfan#33]

Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.

Yea that kills me...in contrast did you see Tomlin yesterday??

I did. That's what I expect a head coach to say after a team loses a bad game. Zorn's comments, on the other hand, were a joke. Where is the fire and emotion from Zorn? He looks like he's sleepwalking through the season.

Zorn is not a HC. Hell he's not even a OC. He's a QB coach...

Would you promote the guy the cooks the fries at Mc Donalds to general manager and expect success?

Please can we all stop with this he has never done it before and has never been an OC. Neither had Reid or John Harbaugh.

It didn't seam to matter that we did the same thing (hired someone without any experience) for President! (less of a stretch than your example!)

[Countertrey]

I am impressing myself with my personal discipline right now.

[Redskin in Canada]

I am impressing myself with my personal discipline right now.

Pain and discipline go hand in hand.

So does pain and pleasure if you are a maso ... never mind, wrong analogy.

[Countertrey]

I am impressing myself with my personal discipline right now.

Pain and discipline go hand in hand.

So does pain and pleasure if you are a maso ... never mind wrong analogy.

BAD COUNTERTREY!

[UKBB]

Vinny Cerratto is the most incompetent GM in the game.

I hear Matt Millen is available.

[Countertrey]

Vinny Cerratto is the most incompetent GM in the game.

I hear Matt Millen is available.

This, sir, has to be the best first post EVER!!!

Welcome to the site!



And, please just check the Noobie Thread

[RayNAustin]

I first started watching the Redskins when they were led by Sonny Jurgenson in the mid-60's. I've seen a lot of Redskins football over the years, and lived and died many, many times over. How many fans still remember vividly the bitter wars with Jim Hart and the Cards in the 70's? The Clint Longley game? Mike Thomas? George Allen? I'm not about to become a non-fan just because we're led by an incompetent owner. But no-one should confuse us realists with non-fans just because we've been around too long to be blind partisans. Blind partisanship leads to bitter disillusionment. Better to be a realist, but keep supporting the team.

Amen brother. That's what I'm talking about.

Sadly, I don't recall a much lower feeling than last week and yesterday. Maybe my memory is off ... but I think what I'm feeling is supreme disappointment because I see a lot of talent that is not being utilized on offense, and a solid defense that lost enthusiasm and desire yesterday.

Last year's offensive difficulties have carried over, and if anything, the optimism coming into this year makes that an even more bitter pill to swallow.

There is no fire, and the team appears to have resigned themselves to mediocrity. Zero yards rushing in the first half against the Lions? 94 total yards? Defense giving up 9 out of 12 3rd down conversions? Man handled and pushed around by a team that hadn't won a game it 2 years?

Im the first half yesterday, the Redskins couldn't compete with a team they should have decimated easily.

No way in the world this isn't about coaching. Zany "Stay Medium" Zorn and his staff have created a soft, sleep walking embarrassment of a football team on offense, and Blache's defense have gone on emotional strike.

[PulpExposure]

I think getting rid of Vinny this week and picking up Holmgren would be a very good move. We need a GM

I agree with everything but Holmgren. When Holmgren was in Seattle, he originally had full power over personnel, but he proved so inept at it that they took that power away from him and brought in a GM.

We need a GM. But please, stop bringing up Holmgren. We don't need HIM as a GM.

Decent article on his tenure as the GM.

Holmgren drafted 38 players during his GM years, with 6 first round picks. Of those 38 players, only 5 became consistent productive starters - Shaun Alexander, Darrell Jackson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, and Rocky Bernard. Obviously, trying to rank the rest of the drafted players has an element of subjectivity. It would appear that the Seahawks produced a total of 8 productive draft picks (players making a significant contribution for their team, for a significant period of time), during the four years in question. This number should be much higher, especially considering the 6 first round picks. Of the 6 first round draft picks, only 2 (Alexander and Hutchinson) became consistent productive starters.

Yeah.

[SkinsJock]

I've seen no evidence that Holmgren is a GM.

AND, it was Holmgren that indicated that he felt that Zorn would not only be a good to great offensive coordinator but, that at some time he might get a Head Coaching job

Look, I don't think that Zorn is all to blame anymore than I think it is all on Campbell OR all on the players but the fact remains that we are a team in disarray at present and if we had good management they would control the whole environment better - our franchise is managed by guys who are best at spin control and as a result we are getting a bunch of BS stuff out there right now.

the players and the coaches need to really get together here and I hope for all our sakes they do - that does not mean that I want Zorn or Campbell here next year, I don't, but I do think that if we don't have a change of how this franchise is managed it is going to matter much who is here from top to bottom

[chiefhog44]

I think getting rid of Vinny this week and picking up Holmgren would be a very good move. We need a GM

I agree with everything but Holmgren. When Holmgren was in Seattle, he originally had full power over personnel, but he proved so inept at it that they took that power away from him and brought in a GM.

We need a GM. But please, stop bringing up Holmgren. We don't need HIM as a GM.

Decent article on his tenure as the GM.

Holmgren drafted 38 players during his GM years, with 6 first round picks. Of those 38 players, only 5 became consistent productive starters - Shaun Alexander, Darrell Jackson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, and Rocky Bernard. Obviously, trying to rank the rest of the drafted players has an element of subjectivity. It would appear that the Seahawks produced a total of 8 productive draft picks (players making a significant contribution for their team, for a significant period of time), during the four years in question. This number should be much higher, especially considering the 6 first round picks. Of the 6 first round draft picks, only 2 (Alexander and Hutchinson) became consistent productive starters.

Yeah.

I hear ya my friend. Holmgren is off the list. Who else is out there right now? I don't know many quality GM's out there, but I bet if us fans made a big enough stink, Vinny would be gone. I'm talking about full scale no shows at games. Danny knows that someone has to be the scapegoat for this and unfortunately for us, it's going to be Zorn. Not to say he shouldn't be fired, I just would like to take this opportunity, with all the emotion that we are feeling as fans, to fire the correct person first.

[SkinsJock]

I am not a Holmgren fan either but IMO almost anyone can do a better job than these 2


The thing is we need to bring in someone that knows what they are doing and turn over the operation of all things to do with the team to that person or persons - Snyder and Cerrato should not be a part of any of those decisions - that is the person that decides where we are going and how to get there and who are the best coaches and players to make that happen

that my friends is not going to happen here, so, like they say at another of Snyder's ventures "enjoy the ride ... "

[RedskinsFreak]

- Snyder and Cerrato should not be a part of any of those decisions -

Cerrato should not be a part of any football organization.

Or at least any one that desires to be one of high respect and reputation.

[Redskin in Canada]

Pioli was available this offseason for God's sake !!!