The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote: Yea I listen to them at work, not to defend Kevin bu his argument is " what's the alternative" he just feels like if you like Kirk walk you are setting the franchise back yet again.

And that's a legit question. And I understand that it's market driven. But you can't be so dismissive of those who aren't willing to be so gung-ho about Kirk. He's very dismissive to callers. Hell, he tried to dismiss Cooley's point today about Kirks inability to get it done on the big-stage and got shut down.

At least Chris can own it. I can respect that.

You hear Cooley say he would give him 100 mil with 55 guaranteed

I have been a Redskins fan since 1945 (I was 9 years old.) when my father took me to a meeting with a potential client. That person was Turk Edwards, the then head coach of the Redskins. Not a very successful one I might add.) I still have the football he autographed for me. So...I have seen many, many Redskin players and do not agree with your assessment of Cousins. Yes, he has passed for a ton of yards. But keep in mind he has to pass because there is no real alternative. He does not seem to be able to come though in those clutch situations like the Giants or Carolina games. I understand that even the greatest quarterback cannot be a demigod every time but I have seen Cousins fail in the clutch situations to many times. I would take Sammy Baugh or Sonny Jorgensen or Joe Theisman over Cousins every time because they were able to draw on the quality that wins clutch games more often than not. Cousins has not shown me that. Maybe he can in the future but in the NFL, the future is now.

DEHog wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote: Yea I listen to them at work, not to defend Kevin bu his argument is " what's the alternative" he just feels like if you like Kirk walk you are setting the franchise back yet again.

And that's a legit question. And I understand that it's market driven. But you can't be so dismissive of those who aren't willing to be so gung-ho about Kirk. He's very dismissive to callers. Hell, he tried to dismiss Cooley's point today about Kirks inability to get it done on the big-stage and got shut down.

At least Chris can own it. I can respect that.

You hear Cooley say he would give him 100 mil with 55 guaranteed

And that's fair because Chris believes in Kirks continued growth. There's nothing wrong with that. Both sides of the argument are equally valid right now.

I agree to disagree, respectfully.

... not.

In the biggest game of the year, Kirk Cousins was terrible. On multiple occasions he failed to pull the trigger on TDs and instead, checked down with more than adequate protection.

A bad defense had a good day but a potentially powerful offense had a very bad day mostly due to terrible play at the quarterback position.

In some strange world Kirk Cousins may be the best Redskin in decades but this past Sunday when we needed him to be good he bit the wang.

aswas71788 wrote:I have been a Redskins fan since 1945 (I was 9 years old.) when my father took me to a meeting with a potential client. That person was Turk Edwards, the then head coach of the Redskins. Not a very successful one I might add.) I still have the football he autographed for me. So...I have seen many, many Redskin players and do not agree with your assessment of Cousins. Yes, he has passed for a ton of yards. But keep in mind he has to pass because there is no real alternative. He does not seem to be able to come though in those clutch situations like the Giants or Carolina games. I understand that even the greatest quarterback cannot be a demigod every time but I have seen Cousins fail in the clutch situations to many times. I would take Sammy Baugh or Sonny Jorgensen or Joe Theisman over Cousins every time because they were able to draw on the quality that wins clutch games more often than not. Cousins has not shown me that. Maybe he can in the future but in the NFL, the future is now.

Don't want to assume...what do you mean by this?

DarthMonk wrote:In the biggest game of the year, Kirk Cousins was terrible. On multiple occasions he failed to pull the trigger on TDs and instead, checked down with more than adequate protection.

A bad defense had a good day but a potentially powerful offense had a very bad day mostly due to terrible play at the quarterback position.

In some strange world Kirk Cousins may be the best Redskin in decades but this past Sunday when we needed him to be good he bit the wang.

Giants had nothing to do with that?

DEHog wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:In the biggest game of the year, Kirk Cousins was terrible. On multiple occasions he failed to pull the trigger on TDs and instead, checked down with more than adequate protection.

A bad defense had a good day but a potentially powerful offense had a very bad day mostly due to terrible play at the quarterback position.

In some strange world Kirk Cousins may be the best Redskin in decades but this past Sunday when we needed him to be good he bit the wang.

Giants had nothing to do with that?

Correct. They had NOTHING to do with the fails I'm talking about.

DarthMonk wrote:

DEHog wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:In the biggest game of the year, Kirk Cousins was terrible. On multiple occasions he failed to pull the trigger on TDs and instead, checked down with more than adequate protection.

A bad defense had a good day but a potentially powerful offense had a very bad day mostly due to terrible play at the quarterback position.

In some strange world Kirk Cousins may be the best Redskin in decades but this past Sunday when we needed him to be good he bit the wang.

Giants had nothing to do with that?

Correct. They had NOTHING to do with the fails I'm talking about.

Fair enough, I just thought Jay got outcoached. Cousins had a nice day up in NY. NY's MO under Spags is getting pressure on QB's. They did that on Sunday, Kirk was sacks 4 times and under pressure most of the day with no semblance of a running game. Did he miss a few open receivers? Yep he sure did, IMO the Giants D had a lot to do with those check downs.

The Redskins ineffective offense was not so much due to good defensive play as bad execution and especially bad decisions by the QB

a good NFL QB finds a way to overcome what the defense is doing - Kirk Cousins is a lot better QB than what he showed Sunday

The Giants defense played well but they were a lot more effective because of the play of the offense than their own play

Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB but he's not looking like he will become an elite NFL QB and he's certainly NOT the best Redskins player in a long time







- my bad .....

He gagged, fellas. More comments later.

Film breakdown:

http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned ... &f=5796603

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote: So basically youre telling me that a 6 year vet who can't win against Dallas, can't win a playoff game, can't lead his team to a playoff berth , who took 4 plus years to beat any team with a winning record, cant win on MNF and says dumb quotes like You Like that is worth 100m?

Why do the Redskins insist on paying players who don't produce results?

Wow, not sure we're to start with this post. Let's start with the fact that this is Kirk's 5th season, 2nd as a starter and he's 5 games over.500 with a division title under his belt. He's done this with no running game and a historically bad defense. Take a look at the last decade of SB winning teams and you'll see defenses that contributed and in some cases won the game, this on teams that included Brady, Manning, and Brees. Interceptions can be coached, go look at the Interceptions of guys like Manning and Brees early in their careers. I love how the fans just lament about getting rid of Cousins with no mention of alternatives! No one has paid Kirk 100 million yet, let him hit the market and see how quickly teams offer that!! If you think Kirk doesn't still have leverage you're crazy.

I know this thread is about Kirk but Rob Kelly averaged 4.2 per carry. I think if you choose to run the ball more, you will wear down a defense, control the clock even more and you will take alot of pressure off Cousins and the putrid defense. I also think this will setup a great playaction with one of the best deep threats in history (Desean Jackson) and you will see more passing tds.

So we didn't have a running game because most of the time they chose not to have a run game. Emphasis on running game was not a heavy emphasis as when Shanahan and crew was here. If you didn't run block, you didn't get on the field.

OldSchool wrote:I stand by my assertion the Kirk Cousins the best Redskin in decades. He just finished another great year of quarterbacking, he is two for two now with consecutive record setting years. He carried a team bereft of a running game with a very defense to another winning season. If the Redskins acquire the talent to field a respectable defense and running game Kirk will lead them to Super Bowls. Mike Shahanan was more prescient about Kirk than anyone when he said he is a young Drew Brees, the comparison is perfect and when the Skins balance this team by improving the defense and running game The Skins will be champions.

His critics here and elsewhere don't know what talent looks like in my opinion. I think it is fair to note his detractors were the last men standing of the Griffin bandwagon and the ones most annoyed with Cousins flashing promise during Cousins first 3 seasons. It irritated these critics that Kirk was able to execute a pro offense while their hero was lost in the pocket and needed to be provided a dummied down, high school red option game plan to function. These critics littered this board and others with dismissive assessments of Kirk. They said he was only a backup because he had a low ceiling, he had already peaked, he was an interception machine and a head case. Shamelessly they now continue their petty criticism after being proven so wrong, so wrong about everything.

Happy New Years guys! We have a long wait now until the draft but despite the disappointing end to the season I think we have much to look forward to next season. Scot needs to add some muscle to the lines. I hope he does that with the top picks.

Kirk is good but not great. Top 15 qb for sure and he proved that and doubters by having two good years. You can say he is the best qb the Redskins have had in recent years because he had at least strung together two consecutive good years. But to be the best you have to have accomplishments on your belt. As far as accomplishments he's no better than RG3 of 2012, Todd Collins of 2007. They both got us to the playoffs yet failed to win. If anything RG3 and Collins had worst talent. It irritates me that as a fanbase we are more worried about personal players and not WINS. Thats all that matters is wins. I ain't no friend of none of these guys, I just want my Redskins to win with the best guys and as a fan I hold them accountable on a high standard.

Kirk for some reason stink up the joint every last game he plays. We all conveniently forgot he came in in 2012 in the playoff game and looked scared. 2013 put out a stink bomb against the Giants in 2013, in 2014 let a stinkbomb out against the Titans and was never seen again that year, 2015 threw up against the Packers at home in the playoffs and in 2016 looked bad against the Giants at home. Can we have a game at the end of the year where we lose and we all say to ourselves wow that Kirk gave it his all but the defense...blah blah blah. Naw everytime he contributes to losing the game.

I've seen him have monster games where he plays with all the confidence in the world as well and you can see the fire in his eyes. Like the Tampa Bay game, Packers game (was superb!) and more others. He typically plays more good than not. But when the big game comes or the big teams come he fails miserably.

These are facts. So even though paying him is somewhat an issue. My whole thing is if we have everything in place for a Super Bowl run, is he the guy to win the big game and have enough confidence in himself to play well like we have seen him in other games.

Best Redskin you've ever seen? Really??

How about Trent Williams? How about Darrell Green? How about....on and on

I don't think so! When he wins a big game (or two) let's talk!

mastdark81 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote: So basically youre telling me that a 6 year vet who can't win against Dallas, can't win a playoff game, can't lead his team to a playoff berth , who took 4 plus years to beat any team with a winning record, cant win on MNF and says dumb quotes like You Like that is worth 100m?

Why do the Redskins insist on paying players who don't produce results?

Wow, not sure we're to start with this post. Let's start with the fact that this is Kirk's 5th season, 2nd as a starter and he's 5 games over.500 with a division title under his belt. He's done this with no running game and a historically bad defense. Take a look at the last decade of SB winning teams and you'll see defenses that contributed and in some cases won the game, this on teams that included Brady, Manning, and Brees. Interceptions can be coached, go look at the Interceptions of guys like Manning and Brees early in their careers. I love how the fans just lament about getting rid of Cousins with no mention of alternatives! No one has paid Kirk 100 million yet, let him hit the market and see how quickly teams offer that!! If you think Kirk doesn't still have leverage you're crazy.

I know this thread is about Kirk but Rob Kelly averaged 4.2 per carry. I think if you choose to run the ball more, you will wear down a defense, control the clock even more and you will take alot of pressure off Cousins and the putrid defense. I also think this will setup a great playaction with one of the best deep threats in history (Desean Jackson) and you will see more passing tds.

So we didn't have a running game because most of the time they chose not to have a run game. Emphasis on running game was not a heavy emphasis as when Shanahan and crew was here. If you didn't run block, you didn't get on the field.

Good point...Totally agree, Rob started 9 games, Skins were 4-1-1 in games he avg 3.9 or better. They were 0-3 in games he didn’t!

here's an interesting take on what might happen if Kyle Shanahan became the 49ers HC ...

http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/1/16/1428 ... den-carrot

possibly having the #2 pick in this coming draft is a no brainer

SkinsJock wrote:here's an interesting take on what might happen if Kyle Shanahan became the 49ers HC ...

http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/1/16/1428 ... den-carrot

possibly having the #2 pick in this coming draft is a no brainer

In the other post about Cousins a comment shows a link by John Keim saying it's real hard to imagine the niners giving up this year's 2nd pick of the draft

^^ I doubt that the 49ers would give up this pick also and there's no way that Cousins is going there ...

stranger things have happened and Kyle could make us all very happy