The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

StorminMormon86 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I don't know very much to anything about Mike Jones, but he sounds like an idiot.

For me, this is why it's so mind boggling. Jones isn't a "click baity" type of guy. He's probably the all around best beat reporter (next to Keim) that covers the Skins. I cannot fathom why he would make that claim, or how he even came to that conclusion. If Hopkins makes the kick and our defense stopped Detroit, would this even be a discussion at all?

Markshark84 you could be right but this isn't the first time we have heard this nor is it from ONLY Mike Jones. We heard this right before Kirk signed his franchise deal that they could go younger or possibly a guy on their roster. Now I know the media is a bunch of bs sometimes but haven't we also heard from Scot's mouth that they are not going to hurt the team with the cap? They only offered Kirk 12 mil lmao (according to multiple sources).

Keep in mind Kirk is not Grudens nor McCloughan's hand picked guy. That was Shanahans love lol. Colt McCoy was the starter at one point and I remember Gruden saying at the time he was the best qb at the time on the team..he lost the job due to injury only. I think they have faith in McCoy to some degree, besides he has won games for us off the bench.

But regardless if Mike Jones is going for click bait or not, it is a possibility because FACT is they didn't sign him long term in the offseason, so some smoke is there. This barely ever happen when you have a guy have a breakout season and have to play on a franchise deal the whole time (Drew Brees exception).

My personal opinion is that the everyone is satisfied with Kirk at qb but given his previous history they do not want to make a blockbuster deal for him where it could hurt the team's ability to resign their own or get free agents.

What I think we should do is offer him an amount that not his market value but something fair for what he has accomplished. If Kirk wins a playoff game this year then I feel we pay him whatever he wants, but if we are an 7,8,9 win team and get booted from the playoffs again first game how can we afford to keep talent around yet alone build more talent with the qb getting $25 mil?

Lastly anyone thinking a win/record don't mean anything is a fool. It means all the world for the qb position. It isn't everything but your win/loss record at the qb position means alot. I tend to believe regardless the guy that touches the ball every play on offense (which this game is based upon points) has at least 60% of reason why a team win or loses. You pay a guy that you think can help you win and that is why qb's get the most bucks most of the time.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF Cousins wants more than he's worth, that's his choice - we are not paying any player more than they're worth

That may be. So why would you be confident that Cousins will be here next year?

Cousins value will be pretty high, especially given that he's a QB but that doesn't mean that he can't be signed - teams will find a way to pay a player if they want him

I'm just sating that while they may have to pay him a huge amount ("more than he's worth") the team and the player will figure out a way to get it done - if the player does not want to be here then it really is not that important

SJ, I know how badly you need to boost your post count, but I'm sure you've seen the mods' appeals to not respond to threads after spam has been posted. I try to clean it up as soon as possible, but when you respond it burries the spam and , more importantly, the spammer's id, making it harder to ban them so they can't post more before I can get to it.

mastdark81 wrote:Lastly anyone thinking a win/record don't mean anything is a fool. It means all the world for the qb position. It isn't everything but your win/loss record at the qb position means alot. I tend to believe regardless the guy that touches the ball every play on offense (which this game is based upon points) has at least 60% of reason why a team win or loses. You pay a guy that you think can help you win and that is why qb's get the most bucks most of the time.

Sure, it means everything to fans, but not to GMs looking for a quality QB to lead their team, which is the point that we wre responding to. The empirical evidence just doesn't bear that out.

Deadskins wrote:SJ, I know how badly you need to boost your post count, but I'm sure you've seen the mods' appeals to not respond to threads after spam has been posted. I try to clean it up as soon as possible, but when you respond it burries the spam and , more importantly, the spammer's id, making it harder to ban them so they can't post more before I can get to it.

SORRY - I did not understand the ramifications, it will not happen again

regardless, you are clueless at times ... I have alerted CT to spam when I have seen it

get over yourself

If Cousins continues to show that he's a top value QB, he will get a lot of money even if we do not win another game

SkinsJock wrote:If Cousins continues to show that he's a top value QB, he will get a lot of money even if we do not win another game

I'm sure this has been asked before but could you try thinking before you post?

If Cousins continues to show he's a top value QB how will the team lose its next eight games?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:If Cousins continues to show that he's a top value QB, he will get a lot of money even if we do not win another game

I'm sure this has been asked before but could you try thinking before you post?

why? - you get away with it a lot

If Cousins continues to show he's a top value QB how will the team lose its next eight games?

you obviously think that NFL teams win every game when the QB plays well

btw - why did you quit hognostications?

SkinsJock wrote:you obviously think that NFL teams win every game when the QB plays well

btw - why did you quit hognostications?

No, I never said that, but teams don't lose every game when the QB is playing at a top level either and you said Cousins "will get a lot of money even if we do not win another game."

Not that it has anything whatsoever to do with the thread but if you must know, and I gather you must, I missed one week due to a hurricane knocking out my power and the following week due to a family emergency which took me out of state for several days. While the rules may have allowed somewhat for that I lost interest. I haven't even had the time to keep my weekly blogs up to date, not that anyone was reading them in any case.

Cousins could play well and we still only win a game or 2, maybe 3 - winning 7 or less games would be pretty disappointing - based on what is available at QB, Cousins doesn't need to do much to get a good contract next year - however, Cousins has shown he can play QB and he will get a good deal next season as long as he keeps playing well, regardless of our record

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins could play well and we still only win a game or 2, maybe 3 - winning 7 or less games would be pretty disappointing - based on what is available at QB, Cousins doesn't need to do much to get a good contract next year - however, Cousins has shown he can play QB and he will get a good deal next season as long as he keeps playing well, regardless of our record

Who you think is going to give Cousins a deal?

mastdark81 wrote:Who you think is going to give Cousins a deal?

If not us, any of about a dozen teams.

riggofan wrote:Knocking Mike Jones is idiotic. Guy is a pro.

He was just on Dukes' show btw.

"If I had to place a bet, I'd bet that Kirk Cousins isn't here." - @MikeJonesWaPo on #CDVTW discussing the #Redskins in 2017

Why during a bye week without a losing record? The whole things reeks of some sort of leak.

Deadskins wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:Who do you think is going to give Cousins a deal?

If not us, any of about a dozen teams.

+1 - Cousins has not played up to the level he was playing at in 2015 but he's certainly showed that he's a good starting QB

barring a meltdown, regardless of how many wins the team has, he will be looking at a significant contract going forward

the last 8 games are going to be important because there could be significant changes here which might impact Cousins' decision

Deadskins wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:Who you think is going to give Cousins a deal?

If not us, any of about a dozen teams.

I don't see why this is so hard for people to believe. People need to step outside of the DC bubble and watch some other games around the NFL.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Knocking Mike Jones is idiotic. Guy is a pro.

He was just on Dukes' show btw.

"If I had to place a bet, I'd bet that Kirk Cousins isn't here." - @MikeJonesWaPo on #CDVTW discussing the #Redskins in 2017

Why during a bye week without a losing record? The whole things reeks of some sort of leak.

Well, I do think that the team has been leaking some pre-contract negotiation stuff. If you're going to buy a car, you don't walk into the dealer and start gushing about how much you love that ride and will do whatever it takes to get it. So I'm not that concerned about the team leaking that they might look at other options.

I'm actually with Jones on this though. If I were placing a bet right now, I'd bet that Kirk isn't here next year. I think the chances are that its going to be hard to get a deal done. For Kirk to be here next year, either the team is going to have to pay a bit more than they would like or put him on the franchise tag again at $24m which is just as bad. I'm not sure I see the team being willing to do either of those things. You guys?

It would be a pure dumpster fire for us to not resign him. Our team from coaching staff to players is designed around our offense, if you plan on going into the draft nextra year to pick a qb, you have maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB. So you pretty much ensure our team has no shot at anything for the next few years.

Kirk is on track for around 5000 yards this year. Take yourself a look at the qbs in nfl history with 5000 yards and tell me we don't want to keep a guy that makes it into that group.

Prowl33 wrote:It would be a pure dumpster fire for us to not resign him. Our team from coaching staff to players is designed around our offense, if you plan on going into the draft nextra year to pick a qb, you have maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB. So you pretty much ensure our team has no shot at anything for the next few years.

Kirk is on track for around 5000 yards this year. Take yourself a look at the qbs in nfl history with 5000 yards and tell me we don't want to keep a guy that makes it into that group.

I agree 100% with what you wrote, and I personally want to see Cousins back for those reasons. I'm just not convinced that the team is going to do what it will take to keep him. I think its 50/50 at best.

Prowl33 wrote:It would be a pure dumpster fire for us to not resign him. Our team from coaching staff to players is designed around our offense, if you plan on going into the draft nextra year to pick a qb, you have maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB. So you pretty much ensure our team has no shot at anything for the next few years.

Kirk is on track for around 5000 yards this year. Take yourself a look at the qbs in nfl history with 5000 yards and tell me we don't want to keep a guy that makes it into that group.

where do you come up with "maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB" - I doubt that anyone thinks there's even 1 QB in the coming draft that's ready to start in the NFL - except maybe the parents of a few QBs

Cousins stats or win loss record are not as important as the fact that he's proven that he's a good NFL QB

SkinsJock wrote:where do you come up with "maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB" - I doubt that anyone thinks there's even 1 QB in the coming draft that's ready to start in the NFL - except maybe the parents of a few QBs

Doesn't seem like "maybe a 10% chance" is all that outrageous to claim. 15 QBs were drafted this year. Prescott and Wentz are starting QBs already. That's 13%.

riggofan wrote:Well, I do think that the team has been leaking some pre-contract negotiation stuff. If you're going to buy a car, you don't walk into the dealer and start gushing about how much you love that ride and will do whatever it takes to get it. So I'm not that concerned about the team leaking that they might look at other options.

I'm actually with Jones on this though. If I were placing a bet right now, I'd bet that Kirk isn't here next year. I think the chances are that its going to be hard to get a deal done. For Kirk to be here next year, either the team is going to have to pay a bit more than they would like or put him on the franchise tag again at $24m which is just as bad. I'm not sure I see the team being willing to do either of those things. You guys?

I agree with you a little - if Cousins plays great these next 8 games, it's going to be a big contract and maybe they will think they can get by for the 2 or 3 years it will take to get someone else while rebuilding the defense and offensive lines

however, IF Cousins just continues to play well and we only win 2 or 3 games, the contract $ will not be as great

regardless of what happens, barring a meltdown, Cousins might want to point out that his market value is sky high, which it is when you look at the alternatives, but if he does that I would think the FO will pass - Cousins is good but he's not great

IMO Cousins is going to want to be a part of things here and I maybe very wrong about that
Osweiler left Denver for more money and look at how great he's playing in Texas - stupid move by him but he got his money

Cousins could go to Cleveland and have RG3 as his back-up

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:where do you come up with "maybe a 10% chance to land a starting QB" - I doubt that anyone thinks there's even 1 QB in the coming draft that's ready to start in the NFL - except maybe the parents of a few QBs

Doesn't seem like "maybe a 10% chance" is all that outrageous to claim. 15 QBs were drafted this year. Prescott and Wentz are starting QBs already. That's 13%.

there is a good chance that there is no QB in the coming draft that is ready to potentially start in the NFL - none

Dak Prescott - really! - you want to go there? .... OK, name a college QB that we could draft to start here in 2017

SkinsJock wrote:name a college QB that we could draft to start here in 2017

Nate Sudfeld?

SkinsJock wrote:however, IF Cousins just continues to play well and we only win 2 or 3 games, the contract $ will not be as great

The $$ might not be *as great* but its still going to be expensive. You continue to overlook the free market part of the equation, man. Cousins is in the driver seat. If we low ball him, all he has to do is say, fine I'll go test free agency. Like you wrote, the Texans did sign Osweiler for stupid money. Cousins is a better, more proven QB than Osweiler. Its not that hard to believe some desperate team will pony up for him.

SkinsJock wrote:IMO Cousins is going to want to be a part of things here and I maybe very wrong about that

I actually agree with you here. The best option for Cousins is to stay in this offense and in Washington, and I think he knows that.

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins could go to Cleveland and have RG3 as his back-up

hah!

Funny, Tandler just posted on this a few minutes ago. Good read:
Looking ahead: What are the Redskins 2017 options regarding Kirk Cousins?
http://realredskins.com/2016/11/04/look ... k-cousins/

His conclusion:
"My guess right now is that the Redskins will tag him again. Perhaps Cousins will stay away from Redskins Park, force the issue, and end up with a long-term deal. But with or without a new contract Cousins seems likely to be back behind center in training camp next July."