The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote::hmm: Then why is he starting?

maybe because he's started every game this season ...

He's starting because he's starting?

startling that he's starting because he's starting.

Jay Gruden has 2 QBs and Cousins is the starting QB, just because he is

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden has 2 QBs and Cousins is the starting QB, just because he is

If this were possible, you made things even more nonsensical and confusing.

Thankfully, RG3 is not available to play QB on game day ...

can you imagine the fun we could have speculating about how much better he is after all this time off

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden has 2 QBs and Cousins is the starting QB, just because he is

If this were possible, you made things even more nonsensical and confusing.

because you choose to look at the post that way

why do you think Gruden is starting Cousins instead of McCoy? - give me a break, is that really a question?

Deadskins wrote:He's starting because he's starting?

I compliment the dude for reaching a posting apex and he immediately swoops to a nadir.

Sheesh

As to the topic... Cousins does NOT posses a STRONG "arm".. he does have good technique, so when he can plant and pivot and put his all into a throw YES he can throw deep- having to heave his whole body into it means he needs more time, needs a cleaner pocket, and is less accurate then someone with a cannon for an arm.

This isn't a knock on him, just what he has to work with. Guys like Cam, can make a touch pass intermediate to deep falling back with a flick of their wrist- Kirk won't be able to make that pass.

I think the BIGGEST down side to his arm, is the accuracy... It's shifted from INTs now (possibly just as bad) to his unwillingness to pull the trigger. Vs Dullass coach mentioned how they called the deep play multiple times through out the game, and for what ever reason the trigger wasn't pulled. Djax has an uncanny ability to beat people deep, and to track the ball and adjust to bring it in. Going at him twice a game is a joke.

Djax was visibly pist during the game... And rightfully so. He was running free multiple times- once (at least) in the end zone- and Kirk failed to deliver it.


Noodle arm has always been a gross exaggeration... (Funny as it may be; sorry to those who were offended) But cannon doesn't come to mind when thinking of Kirky either....


I'm REALLY disappointed in his play vs the pukes. He didn't cost us the game, but missed when it mattered most, and definitely didn't do much to win the game. Stats are missleading (to say the least), and I was TRULY rooting for that game to be his coming out party; to unite the Skins nation in this pro Kirk pro Rob battle.. to seal the deal and bring the W home vs a struggling puke team, ALONE ATOP THE DIVISION. Ala RGiii circa 2012. Shame he didn't capitalize on that opportunity- game seemed to big for him IN the first half... Beat the blitz with a touch pass over the top, or to the soft spot. He has a quick release, what gives??

markshark84 wrote:Mike Shanahan (I did like his son)

It looks like Kyle is struggling in Atlanta already. Familiar things are being said about him (can't work with quarterbacks, predictable offense), etc. If you read Falcons news, there's lots of discussion about firing him already.

He hasn't been there a year already. Follow that on top of him leaving the Browns after one year, and the track record isn't fantastic for Kyle.

PulpExposure wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Mike Shanahan (I did like his son)

It looks like Kyle is struggling in Atlanta already. Familiar things are being said about him (can't work with quarterbacks, predictable offense), etc. If you read Falcons news, there's lots of discussion about firing him already.

He hasn't been there a year already. Follow that on top of him leaving the Browns after one year, and the track record isn't fantastic for Kyle.

Ya he gets praise that I don't think he deserves... People forget we were 3-6 in 2012 and peeled off 7 straight in spite of him and papa Mike going into "evaluation mode" and basically giving up on the team.

At one point I thought Kyle might be the guy to replace daddy here... But his woes after 2012, in Cleveland, and now taking a top ranked O for the last 5+ years with STUDS at the skill positions down to mediocrity doesn't bode well for him.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I'm REALLY disappointed in his play vs the pukes. He didn't cost us the game, but missed when it mattered most, and definitely didn't do much to win the game. Stats are missleading (to say the least), and I was TRULY rooting for that game to be his coming out party; to unite the Skins nation in this pro Kirk pro Rob battle.. to seal the deal and bring the W home vs a struggling puke team, ALONE ATOP THE DIVISION. Ala RGiii circa 2012. Shame he didn't capitalize on that opportunity- game seemed to big for him IN the first half... Beat the blitz with a touch pass over the top, or to the soft spot. He has a quick release, what gives??

Right on.

some of you need help - Kirk Cousins is not the starting QB here because he's better than RG3, it's because he's better than Colt McCoy

let's move on

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As to the topic... Cousins does NOT posses a STRONG "arm".. he does have good technique, so when he can plant and pivot and put his all into a throw YES he can throw deep- having to heave his whole body into it means he needs more time, needs a cleaner pocket, and is less accurate then someone with a cannon for an arm.

This isn't a knock on him, just what he has to work with. Guys like Cam, can make a touch pass intermediate to deep falling back with a flick of their wrist- Kirk won't be able to make that pass.

agreed - and for those that need every little thing to be clear ... Kirk Cousins does not have a WEAK arm ...

Sean and Jay could help him out a little too ...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As to the topic... Cousins does NOT posses a STRONG "arm".. he does have good technique, so when he can plant and pivot and put his all into a throw YES he can throw deep- having to heave his whole body into it means he needs more time, needs a cleaner pocket, and is less accurate then someone with a cannon for an arm.

Cousins is the most accurate passer in the league (of quarterbacks who have thrown 200+ passes) as I type this.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... PERCENTAGE

Now then, placing the blame on Cousins on deep passes is ridiculous. It's a low percentage play. He threw the one that tied the Dallas game pretty effin' accurately. And a lot of others.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... ocation=DR

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As to the topic... Cousins does NOT posses a STRONG "arm".. he does have good technique, so when he can plant and pivot and put his all into a throw YES he can throw deep- having to heave his whole body into it means he needs more time, needs a cleaner pocket, and is less accurate then someone with a cannon for an arm.

Cousins is the most accurate passer in the league (of quarterbacks who have thrown 200+ passes) as I type this.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... PERCENTAGE

So that's a bit misleading to say he's the most accurate. He's 25th in yards per attempt. He has the highest completion percentage but you expect a high percentage of completions if you're throwing short all the time.

Defenses will happily give up a 4 yard pass when it's 3rd and 10. And we've seen a lot of those.

and the education process continues ...

PulpExposure wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As to the topic... Cousins does NOT posses a STRONG "arm".. he does have good technique, so when he can plant and pivot and put his all into a throw YES he can throw deep- having to heave his whole body into it means he needs more time, needs a cleaner pocket, and is less accurate then someone with a cannon for an arm.

Cousins is the most accurate passer in the league (of quarterbacks who have thrown 200+ passes) as I type this.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... PERCENTAGE

So that's a bit misleading to say he's the most accurate. He's 25th in yards per attempt. He has the highest completion percentage but you expect a high percentage of completions if you're throwing short all the time.

Defenses will happily give up a 4 yard pass when it's 3rd and 10. And we've seen a lot of those.

It's no more misleading than the statement it addresses. If the assertion is Cousins is less accurate than someone with a stronger arm then citation is needed. Because all evidence is to the contrary.

I'm talking about deep passes brother... Hence the title name. He is GREAT at dinking and dunking, and since he's taking far fewer shots down field he better have a high completion percentage, they are higher percentage plays.

Everyone isn't trying to hate on Kirk all the time, chill out and read the posts.

I hypothesized his lack of shots is due to lack of deep accuracy (hence the int woes he had), due to his mechanics, particularly his arm strength, and lack of touch deep. He HAS made some beautiful passes, but at least this week he missed more then he made, particularly when you include the plays he didn't pull the trigger.

Jax had a step earlier vs the blitz and Kirk barely missed.. missed him a Cple of other times running free.. and hit a good one late

The main stat that matters is Ws and Ls... I wish he could've mustered 2/3 td passes and the criticisms don't come to light

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I'm talking about deep passes brother... Hence the title name. He is GREAT at dinking and dunking, and since he's taking far fewer shots down field he better have a high completion percentage, they are higher percentage plays.

Everyone isn't trying to hate on Kirk all the time, chill out and read the posts.

I hypothesized his lack of shots is due to lack of deep accuracy (hence the int woes he had), due to his mechanics, particularly his arm strength, and lack of touch deep. He HAS made some beautiful passes, but at least this week he missed more then he made, particularly when you include the plays he didn't pull the trigger.

Jax had a step earlier vs the blitz and Kirk barely missed.. missed him a Cple of other times running free.. and hit a good one late

The main stat that matters is Ws and Ls... I wish he could've mustered 2/3 td passes and the criticisms don't come to light

I know the thread is about deep passes. That's why the stat chart posted is only about passes over 15 yards.

It should also be noted Cousins takes more deep shots than a lot of quarterbacks, including Tom Brady. Considering his pass protection is complete crap most of the time I think he does OK. Would I like the offense to resemble the 1991 Skins? Of course. But that's not realistic. Cousins makes plays to keep his team in games. He's also eliminated the mistakes the last several games. Yes, he's a game manager. That's by design as much as anything. If he had any semblance of a running game and any semblance of pass protection I think we'd see a lot more deep shots.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:That's by design as much as anything. If he had any semblance of a running game and any semblance of pass protection I think we'd see a lot more deep shots.

I actually don't think we would. That's just not how Gruden's offense worked. Even in Cincinnati, where Dalton had a good running game and a very good offensive line, and AJ Green to throw to, Gruden's offense was predominately short passing.

Edit. Regarding stats on deep passes, I found something very good on pro-football-reference. The play finder. For example, I'll link you to the current stats of deep passes (it's all passes that travel over 15 yards in the air). Here.

Click on the QB part, show more, and then you can see where Kirk falls on deep passes. He's 29 of 78 (37.2% completion), 763 yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs, 9.8 Yards per Attempt, Passer Rating 65.3. If you arrange by rating, you can see some QBs really thrive on those types of passes (Palmer, Russell Wilson, etc.), and some do not. Kirk's solidly in the "does not" camp.

Definitely not most accurate on deep balls.

And:

It should also be noted Cousins takes more deep shots than a lot of quarterbacks, including Tom Brady.

You can see that he's 12th in deep shots (as defined by PFR) with 78 attempted. Brady has taken 2 more. The bigger difference is Brady has better success (4 Tds, 2 INTs, 13.3 Yards per attempt).

Pointless.

Let's just hope he continues to improve

I hate it when a QB does not throw the ball away - Cousins is mean't to have a quick release - if there is no one open, get rid of the damn ball ...

Cousins has to help the offense out better - our defense gets him the ball and he's got to take better advantage

If Cousins would help the offense take better advantage of the field position and turnovers he gets from the D, we'd all be a lot happier

I'm not sure if this is because of game planning or lack of confidence by the coaches

let the man play QB FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - if he doesn't have it, let's find out ...

SkinsJock wrote:If Cousins would help the offense take better advantage of the field position and turnovers he gets from the D, we'd all be a lot happier

I'm not sure if this is because of game planning or lack of confidence by the coaches

let the man play QB FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - if he doesn't have it, let's find out ...

I'm 99% sure if you look back at what happened after the turnover on Sunday, the issue was not that Cousins didn't take advantage of something. It was that we had a stupid holding penalty on first down that set us back and stalled the drive. Bears defense made a good play to sack Cousins on the obvious passing down.

But of course, let's blame the coaches and QBs. Game planning. Give me a freaking break.

1st and 10 at WSH 49

(9:46 - 2nd) K.Cousins right end pushed ob at CHI 46 for 5 yards (T.Porter). PENALTY on WAS-M.Moses, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at WAS 49 - No Play
1st and 20 at WSH 39

(9:25 - 2nd) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to P.Thomas to CHI 49 for 12 yards (J.Anderson)
2nd and 8 at CHI 49

(8:51 - 2nd) A.Morris left guard to CHI 45 for 4 yards (L.Houston)
3rd and 4 at CHI 45

(8:12 - 2nd) (Shotgun) K.Cousins sacked at WAS 45 for -10 yards (W.Young)
4th and 14 at WSH 45

(7:34 - 2nd) (Punt formation) T.Way punts 33 yards to CHI 22, Center-N.Sundberg, out of bounds

you just see what you want - Kirk Cousins is not being allowed to do much and the game planning sucks

whose fault is it that this team does not take any (NONE, ZERO) advantage of turnovers - WHO is at fault?

don't tell me we don't have the players