The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:I cannot wait to see Griffin ....

This is just nonsense talk at this point.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I cannot wait to see Griffin ....

This is just nonsense talk at this point.

maybe a little - I am happy with how the team played yesterday - we'll be better when Griffin becomes the QB that Sean and Jay want

Cousins needs to keep playing like this, we'll be fine .... until Griffin becomes the starter again

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I cannot wait to see Griffin ....

This is just nonsense talk at this point.

maybe a little - I am happy with how the team played yesterday - we'll be better when Griffin becomes the QB that Sean and Jay want

Cousins needs to keep playing like this, we'll be fine .... until Griffin becomes the starter again

I did think it was funny in the post game presser that Gruden said something about having Cousins at QB "for the next six or seven weeks". hah. Who does he think he's fooling???

I'm kind of bummed if we're still going to have the Cousins v. RGIII debate for the next two months. I didn't like fans not getting behind Robert, and I don't like them sniping at Cousins. Support your team and give these guys a fair shot to show what they can do.

Griffin just needs to focus on getting healthy, doing his rehab and getting back to practice.

let me join in - I love Cousins as the QB and hope that he makes the most of this opportunity ..

I also hope we can find a way to keep him here when Griffin takes over again

SkinsJock wrote:I also hope we can find a way to keep him here when Griffin takes over again

That's NOT going to happen.

For one, we don't know if Griffin is going to take over...ever again.

Also, let's say Cousins continues to play well in this offense, and gets benched in favor of Griffin. Cousins will not want to stay on this team at that point. He wants to start, and so far has shown that he is a good starting QB in the NFL. He's not going to want to hold a clipboard for another season.

If Cousins continues to play well, which I expect to him because he is a perfect fit for Gruden's offense, I don't see how Griffin gets on the field again this year. Robert Griffin was so ineffective running Gruden's offense they had to put the read option in the Jacksonville game plan. Why would Gruden want to go back to the short bus QB who can't read defenses well enough to run the real offense when the GT (gifted & talented) Kirk Cousins is riddling defenses with the real offense? No coach in his right mind would want to do that and Snyder will be happy with his team working again and everyone who bought a #10 in the past couple of seasons will feel the obliged to buy a #8 Cousins jersey.

Griffin fans should hope for Griffin to spend a lot of time reviewing video to understand how to read defenses between now and the start off season workouts so he is viewed as worth investing some time on next spring. If Griffin makes enough progress next year maybe another team will be willing to give the Skins a 3rd or 2nd round pick for Griffin otherwise I see Griffin riding the pine next year do and the Skins letting him go after 2015. Giffin = Jason Campbell 2.0 on the field and megabust in the FO, even dumber deal than Fat Albert.

Onlyskins4ever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Yall some trigger happy idiots...
lets let the actual play book open before we start with this nonsensical drivel. Cousins went vs some poor #2/3s had time all day and Moss vs a rookie?! Sob. Every game we saw griff march downfield, people tend to SEE what their agenda prefers to SEE.. like you two. Hopefully the trade to st louis takes place and Cousins takes his weak ass fans with him, u wont be missed I assure you.

Isn't it clear that the read option offense and the leagues failure to prepare for such an offense made RG3 look like something he is not, a good NFL quarterback?

Yes, with some work RG3 will get better. I and many others no longer wish to wait when we have a guy in Kirk who is obviously light years better in the pocket. The Oline looked better with Kirk because he got rid of the ball faster and didn't panic when the pocket became less than perfect.

I agree with you on both points, the read option is not a viable offense for a 19 game season in the NFL especially with a fragile QB like Griffin. Also why waste games and seasons trying to teach Griffin basic reading the defense and other pocket stuff he should have came to the league with in 2012. Admit the mistake, learn from it and roll with the good 2012 decision and compete for the division.

How predictable

OldSchool wrote:

Onlyskins4ever wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Yall some trigger happy idiots...
lets let the actual play book open before we start with this nonsensical drivel. Cousins went vs some poor #2/3s had time all day and Moss vs a rookie?! Sob. Every game we saw griff march downfield, people tend to SEE what their agenda prefers to SEE.. like you two. Hopefully the trade to st louis takes place and Cousins takes his weak ass fans with him, u wont be missed I assure you.

Isn't it clear that the read option offense and the leagues failure to prepare for such an offense made RG3 look like something he is not, a good NFL quarterback?

Yes, with some work RG3 will get better. I and many others no longer wish to wait when we have a guy in Kirk who is obviously light years better in the pocket. The Oline looked better with Kirk because he got rid of the ball faster and didn't panic when the pocket became less than perfect.

I agree with you on both points, the read option is not a viable offense for a 19 game season in the NFL especially with a fragile QB like Griffin. Also why waste games and seasons trying to teach Griffin basic reading the defense and other pocket stuff he should have came to the league with in 2012. Admit the mistake, learn from it and roll with the good 2012 decision and compete for the division.

You can't say that he should have known how to be an NFL QB when he came in to the league. Any college coach will tell you it is their job to win college games, not be the NFL minor leagues. It is not RG's fault he was never taught how to read NFL defenses. Now your point about do you take time and seasons to teach him when you have a QB is valid, but to blame RG is another thing. And although I know you don't care, but it is indeed a FACT that RG never got hurt on a read option play.

SkinsJock wrote:Grampi - I'll answer that with this - how many knowledgeable NFL people think that Cousins has the talent and the ability to become a better player than Griffin will with time?

We often hear that Griffin has "a lot more upside than Cousins"? why is that?



Cousins can be very good - Griffin has a better chance to become a better NFL QB

we don't know that either will continue on to become really good NFL players - Griffin just has more going for him

I hope that Cousins has a great game each and every week he plays - I'm looking forward to seeing Griffin become the exciting player he can be - Cousins does not look like he's going to be an exciting player

I don't care that Cousins most likely will not be exciting or dynamic - he just needs to be the best he can be

If Griffin becomes the best NFL QB that he can be there's a very good chance that QB will be better than Cousins

now how hard is it for you to follow that ...

We are going to have to agree to disagree about Griffin, I question if he can even be a serviceable QB in the NFL. In my opinion people put too much importance on raw arm strength and foot speed and not nearly enough importance on the most critical of abilities mental processing speed. Apparently the Redskins looked at Griffins really exceptional foot speed, agility and arm strength and ASSUMED Griffin could be taught how to read and react at NFL speed on the field. In his third year he hasn't shown any sign of being able to do that and because of his fragility and diminished mobility I think he is done as the Redskin starter and maybe is couple of brief stops with other franchises of being out of the league. Griffin was a good student in school but reading and reacting at NFL speed is probably not a generalized intelligence thing, it might be more like a musical gift, or artistic sense. At any rate it isn't a gift Griffin possesses.

If Cousins doesn't work out I think the Skins will look to another QB not Griffin. I believe Cousins will do well enough to warrant playing him for 2 or 3 years. He may succeed quickly but at worse he'll be good to keep us looking for 2-3 years. He may be good enough to lead the Skins to a Super Bowl or he may merely be a polished game manager as his critics here assert and not good enough to get an otherwise prepared team to the Super Bowl, will see but I am confident he'll play well enough to keep most hopeful for 2-3 years. This is bad for Robert Griffin because the Skins aren't going to exercise a 17M 5th year option on Griffin while they ponder if Cousins is only good but not great, so after next year Griffin is toast if not sooner.

All the old one says of Griff and Cuz may be right but let's look at another possibility.

In the first half the Eagles dared Cuz to be the man. He went 19 for 25 with 2 TDs.

Philly adjusted in the 2nd half. Cuz went 11 for 23 with 1 TD, threw a bad pick, missed Garcon for a go-ahead TD, and missed him again by a mile from close range on the last play.

The jury is still out for sure. I want Cousins to play great. He has played well in spurts and does certain things better than Griff right now - but he hasn't been great yet.

I've seen Griff be great. It may never happen again.

We'll see.

Kirk is hot right now because he is hungry but what happens when he cools off? Do he turn into Todd Collins or do he continue to excel? I dont wanna hear no more stat talking unless its the WIN column.

StorminMormon86 wrote: we don't know if Griffin is going to take over ... ever again.

Also, let's say Cousins continues to play well in this offense, and gets benched in favor of Griffin. Cousins will not want to stay on this team at that point. He wants to start, and so far has shown that he is a good starting QB in the NFL. He's not going to want to hold a clipboard for another season.

you are getting ahead of yourself ... a little - IF Cousins continues to play at a very high level, there is no way that Griffin takes over at QB UNTIL the HC thinks that Griffin has as good a grasp of this offense as Cousins - Cousins is playing great but let's see how he goes the next 6 games - he understands that he's got a great opportunity and hopefully he keeps it up

Cousins is doing great but Griffin will show that he's better - it's going to take time and hopefully Cousins makes it tough ...

I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is doing great but Griffin will show that he's better - it's going to take time and hopefully Cousins makes it tough ...

Stop making predictions as though they are fact...you, nor anyone else KNOWS what will happen in the future...I don't think RG3 will ever be as good as he was before the knee injury...but I don't KNOW that, I only THINK that...

Kirk's two performances this year are remarkable for a QB with just 5 starts who gets the scraps in terms of repetitions and work with the starting receiving corps and speaks to his very high ceiling in my view. Kirk has demonstrated mastery of the offense so Gruden's task is to fine tune Cousins to continue to perform at a high level down the stretch and close games. If Gruden & McVay can help Cousins get over this hump than the Skins may have the Drew Brees type QB that Mike Shanahan envisioned when he drafted him.

In my opinion everyone but Griffin is fortunate Cousins is getting an 8+ game stretch to play his way into the franchise QB role, especially Gruden since the first year head coach didn't have to expend any political capital making a QB change and his store of new coach goodwill wasn't consumed trying to resurrect Griffin's flagging career. Griffin is a misfit in Gruden's offense and after an especially inept Griffin performance in Houston Gruden had to put the read option in the game plan to achieve something with Griffin, now that gimmick can be forgotten and Gruden can use his NFL offense because he has an NFL QB to work with in Washington. Hopefully we will see Cousins maintain his poise and performance level in the next 3 games. The Giants game is a must win and Seattle at home and Arizona on the road will be really tough tests for Kirk. Cousins really needs to win the Giant game and if he could finish strong and close out a win against Seattle or Arizona it would be huge for Kirk and the franchise.

emoses14 wrote:I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

Oh please, can't you recognize Cousins just has the good sense to say the right thing to diffuse the issue but no serious person thinks Cousins' believes this nonsense. If you have listened to Cousins speak he might be the most graceful and diplomatic man in Washington and the smart thing at the moment is stick to the party line regarding Griffin while taking over the job with superior play. Kirk is out grossly performing the hapless Griffin and I'm sure he is confident he can continue to perform at a high level and seize the franchise QB spot in Washington.

emoses14 wrote:I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

meh. Why should he have to stay here as a backup? He's making a strong case that he can be a starter in the league, deserves that chance. I give Cousins massive credit for saying the right things in the press yesterday regarding Griffin. His statement was classy and a lot stronger than what Gruden said about the situation.

Also I don't really understand this opinion though about wanting Cousins to stay here as the backup. Maybe I'm misreading your post, but it doesn't seem like what you're hoping for is very ambitious.

As a Redskins fan, I'm hoping we have found the surprise second coming of Tom Brady in Cousins. I would be THRILLED if he puts up 300+ yards in every game this season, gets us to the playoffs and we have no choice but to trade RGIII at the end of the year. I don't mean that as a knock against RGIII at all. If Griffin is our starting QB, I am hoping for the same thing from him.

riggofan wrote:

emoses14 wrote:I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

meh. Why should he have to stay here as a backup? He's making a strong case that he can be a starter in the league, deserves that chance. I give Cousins massive credit for saying the right things in the press yesterday regarding Griffin. His statement was classy and a lot stronger than what Gruden said about the situation.

Also I don't really understand this opinion though about wanting Cousins to stay here as the backup. Maybe I'm misreading your post, but it doesn't seem like what you're hoping for is very ambitious.

As a Redskins fan, I'm hoping we have found the surprise second coming of Tom Brady in Cousins. I would be THRILLED if he puts up 300+ yards in every game this season, gets us to the playoffs and we have no choice but to trade RGIII at the end of the year. I don't mean that as a knock against RGIII at all. If Griffin is our starting QB, I am hoping for the same thing from him.

He doesn't have to (and he won't). He'll be out of here on the first offer smoking, and I'll cheer for him when he does. BUT selfishly from my team's perspective, I want the best available players. If there's a guy who'd be a competent starter, but for whatever reason is your back up QB, don't you feel that much better about him when he does have to play? That's the ambitious hope I have in wanting Kirk to stay in DC.
Now, IF Kirk is the second coming of Tom Brady (which I seriously, seriously doubt), then by all means, I'd prefer him to be my starter, not back up. But until that day arrives. . .

OldSchool wrote:

emoses14 wrote:I suppose this is as good a thread to post this in as any: Kirk gets it, why don't so many others?

I love Kirk Cousins. I've said this more than a few times previously; I'm really hopeful (like, beyond reason) that we can figure out a way for him to remain in DC as the back up at the end of his contract. I can not think of a single back up I'd rather have.

Oh please, can't you recognize Cousins just has the good sense to say the right thing to diffuse the issue but no serious person thinks Cousins' believes this nonsense. If you have listened to Cousins speak he might be the most graceful and diplomatic man in Washington and the smart thing at the moment is stick to the party line regarding Griffin while taking over the job with superior play. Kirk is out grossly performing the hapless Griffin and I'm sure he is confident he can continue to perform at a high level and seize the franchise QB spot in Washington.

A. No, i have the good sense to realize that Cousins knows how to stay in his lane. He's the back up who is playing in place of the injured starter. When that injured starter is no longer injured, Kirk is no longer the starter. This isn't rocket science.

B. IF Cousins is undefeated, has been playing lights out, figures out a way to play better against 5 man rushes/fronts, to play better in second halves once defenses adjust, whatever superlative metric rational people would need to make such a decision, then there's an issue.

C. Of course Cousins believes this. Grown ups understand that wanting to be the starter, hoping to play well enough to be named as such by your coach, and recognizing that you, in fact, are the back up, are not mutually exclusive thoughts. Grown ups can have more than one thought at a time. Cousins, clearly, is a grown up.

And

D. Just because you say something (the highlighted, for instance), over and over doesn't actually make it true. You do realize this, right? Now, you can cherry pick all the stats you like in comparing the two QBs to support either as performing better than the other, so this debate is largely useless. Only time will tell who is the starter and who is gone. Everything now is just conjecture (sorry, I know you want Kirk to be named starter on the strength of his performance on Sunday and in relief of Griffin last week). The only things KC is demonstrably better than Griffin at doing are throwing the ball quickly (this has an upside and downside, by the way) and not getting hurt.

emoses14 wrote:He doesn't have to (and he won't). He'll be out of here on the first offer smoking, and I'll cheer for him when he does. BUT selfishly from my team's perspective, I want the best available players. If there's a guy who'd be a competent starter, but for whatever reason is your back up QB, don't you feel that much better about him when he does have to play? That's the ambitious hope I have in wanting Kirk to stay in DC.
Now, IF Kirk is the second coming of Tom Brady (which I seriously, seriously doubt), then by all means, I'd prefer him to be my starter, not back up. But until that day arrives. . .

Gotcha. Yeah I can't imagine that he would stick around as a backup beyond 2015, so I'm hoping for the lights out 2014 year from him.

grampi wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is doing great but Griffin will show that he's better - it's going to take time and hopefully Cousins makes it tough ...

Stop making predictions as though they are fact...you, nor anyone else KNOWS what will happen in the future...I don't think RG3 will ever be as good as he was before the knee injury...but I don't KNOW that, I only THINK that...

NEWS FLASH - this is a fan site old man - you do NOT have to state that

I learned a long time ago that EVERYTHING any idiot posts here is just an OPINION



I cannot wait to see how things develop here at the QB position the next 8 weeks

riggofan wrote:

emoses14 wrote:He doesn't have to (and he won't). He'll be out of here on the first offer smoking, and I'll cheer for him when he does. BUT selfishly from my team's perspective, I want the best available players. If there's a guy who'd be a competent starter, but for whatever reason is your back up QB, don't you feel that much better about him when he does have to play? That's the ambitious hope I have in wanting Kirk to stay in DC.
Now, IF Kirk is the second coming of Tom Brady (which I seriously, seriously doubt), then by all means, I'd prefer him to be my starter, not back up. But until that day arrives. . .

Gotcha. Yeah I can't imagine that he would stick around as a backup beyond 2015, so I'm hoping for the lights out 2014 year from him.

With each performance like this last week, his trade stock goes up. I seriously doubt both QBs will be on the roster next season.

OldSchool wrote:Kirk's two performances this year are remarkable for a QB with just 5 starts who gets the scraps in terms of repetitions and work with the starting receiving corps and speaks to his very high ceiling in my view. Kirk has demonstrated mastery of the offense so Gruden's task is to fine tune Cousins to continue to perform at a high level down the stretch and close games. If Gruden & McVay can help Cousins get over this hump than the Skins may have the Drew Brees type QB that Mike Shanahan envisioned when he drafted him.

In my opinion everyone but Griffin is fortunate Cousins is getting an 8+ game stretch to play his way into the franchise QB role, especially Gruden since the first year head coach didn't have to expend any political capital making a QB change and his store of new coach goodwill wasn't consumed trying to resurrect Griffin's flagging career. Griffin is a misfit in Gruden's offense and after an especially inept Griffin performance in Houston Gruden had to put the read option in the game plan to achieve something with Griffin, now that gimmick can be forgotten and Gruden can use his NFL offense because he has an NFL QB to work with in Washington. Hopefully we will see Cousins maintain his poise and performance level in the next 3 games. The Giants game is a must win and Seattle at home and Arizona on the road will be really tough tests for Kirk. Cousins really needs to win the Giant game and if he could finish strong and close out a win against Seattle or Arizona it would be huge for Kirk and the franchise.

It's really too bad your otherwise strong posts are littered with phrases like "absolutely no aptitude," "no progress whatsoever," "gimmick," and "the hapless Griffin." You make really good points and I think you are spot on concerning Cousins but all this other stuff comes off as Griffin hate as opposed to your so-called attempt to be "to be fair and objective in [your] analysis.

There is no way in hell that deep down inside Kirk Cousins' heart, he is not playing to take over this team. All of this talk of being "Robert's team" is just PC.