The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:my point was that no team would draft a talent like Andrew Luck and then trade him - they would love to have both QBs

There's no question the TEAM would love to have both of them, but both players do NOT want to ride the bench for a season or seasons. Luck is an unproven NFL QB at this point, if Manning is 100% ready to go the Colts will NOT turn their back on him and bench him for Luck. Luck is NOT going to benefit from this scenario since it's obvious Manning is not into grooming his replacement (Painter, Sorgi, etc.). As for the Colts taking Luck and starting him, if Manning believes he's 100% ready to go, he's not going to want to sit around and take a back seat to Luck. He's already being hailed as the greatest QB of all time, do you really think he's going to want to ride the bench behind Luck? These guys cannot and will not coexist on the same roster next year. Even if Manning isn't 100%, let's say he's at 70-80%. He'll be smart enough to see the writing on the wall if Luck is starting and playing up to his hype, the Colts will not switch him out and put Manning back in when he's 100%. Manning will definitely not stay on that team if they do not intend to start him for the next 3-5 years. It's really that simple.

There is no quarterback in college today who would not love to spend some time under the tutelage of one of the best quarterbacks and offensive minds in NFL history. Luck would, of course, want to play... but he's also smart enough to know that a year under Manning's wing would pay huge dividends in the long run. He would not object to such an arrangement.

The only way Luck starts with Manning on the team is if Peyton is physically unable to play. In that case, he's not playing for anyone, making the issue moot.

So what's the argument here, that Luck would refuse to go to the Colts if he had to sit on the bench for one year while Peyton continued to play? Ridiculous.

the ONLY question about the Colts QB situation next season is, will Peyton be able to play?
If he can, he'll be the starting QB and Luck will be getting ready to play in the NFL

Andrew Luck is FOR SURE getting drafted by the Colts and Peyton will be the starter as long as he's able to play QB

The Colts are NOT drafting Andrew Luck for any reason other than to play QB for them when Peyton is unable to


clear now, Stormin?

SkinsJock wrote:the ONLY question about the Colts QB situation next season is, will Peyton be able to play?
If he can, he'll be the starting QB and Luck will be getting ready to play in the NFL

Andrew Luck is FOR SURE getting drafted by the Colts and Peyton will be the starter as long as he's able to play QB

The Colts are NOT drafting Andrew Luck for any reason other than to play QB for them when Peyton is unable to


clear now, Stormin?

If Peyton is ready to play prior to the draft why would they draft Luck? They could target a QB that NEEDS to sit for a year or two. They could trade the #1 pick and still get their targeted guy. Not having PM was major problem in Indy but it wasn't their only problem... extra picks would go a long way in fixing them

1niksder wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the ONLY question about the Colts QB situation next season is, will Peyton be able to play?
If he can, he'll be the starting QB and Luck will be getting ready to play in the NFL

Andrew Luck is FOR SURE getting drafted by the Colts and Peyton will be the starter as long as he's able to play QB

The Colts are NOT drafting Andrew Luck for any reason other than to play QB for them when Peyton is unable to


clear now, Stormin?

If Peyton is ready to play prior to the draft why would they draft Luck? They could target a QB that NEEDS to sit for a year or two. They could trade the #1 pick and still get their targeted guy. Not having PM was major problem in Indy but it wasn't their only problem... extra picks would go a long way in fixing them

That's a very good point. They migh as well trade the draft choice and get a mess load of picks.

1niksder wrote:If Peyton is ready to play prior to the draft why would they draft Luck?
They could target a QB that NEEDS to sit for a year or two. They could trade the #1 pick and still get their targeted guy. Not having PM was major problem in Indy but it wasn't their only problem ... extra picks would go a long way in fixing them

TOTALLY see your reasoning ... but here's my thinking

Peyton does not look like he's going to be 100% - good but not the greatness we're used to seeing

A QB like Andrew Luck is just too good to pass up - they will take him with their pick
It's hard to believe that a franchise should have this opportunity

Andrew Luck is going to be VERY good - they would be crazy to let him go




I cannot believe the Colts have lost every game - they have Mathis and Freeney at DE - the defense should not have been this bad
all teams have issues but the Colts have a very good FO and they will be OK - they are not far off from being good again
I agree that they did not lose all those games just because they had bad play from the QB position
The Colts are not going to rebuild - they just need to adjust some things

Red_One43 wrote:

1niksder wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the ONLY question about the Colts QB situation next season is, will Peyton be able to play?
If he can, he'll be the starting QB and Luck will be getting ready to play in the NFL

Andrew Luck is FOR SURE getting drafted by the Colts and Peyton will be the starter as long as he's able to play QB

The Colts are NOT drafting Andrew Luck for any reason other than to play QB for them when Peyton is unable to


clear now, Stormin?

If Peyton is ready to play prior to the draft why would they draft Luck? They could target a QB that NEEDS to sit for a year or two. They could trade the #1 pick and still get their targeted guy. Not having PM was major problem in Indy but it wasn't their only problem... extra picks would go a long way in fixing them

That's a very good point. They migh as well trade the draft choice and get a mess load of picks.

And still get one of the top 5 QBs coming out because teams that would trade up aren't that far down the board but want to move up a few spots just for Luck.

one more thing - why not draft Luck and see what happens with Manning

they could still get a bunch of players and picks for Andrew Luck

I just don't think that the Colts FO is going to let the opportunity to have another great QB for many years to come pass by


I will add that if it was my team we'd be trying to add as many draft picks as possible EVERY draft
I've seen first hand what a franchise is like that does not add as many talented young players as possible each & every draft

SkinsJock wrote:one more thing - why not draft Luck and see what happens with Manning

they could still get a bunch of players and picks for Andrew Luck

I just don't think that the Colts FO is going to let the opportunity to have another great QB for many years to come pass by

I could see the Colts drafting Luck and trading him like the Chargers did with Eli (for different reasons of course), but it not depending on what happens with Manning. The whole idea of trading him is to get draft choices for this draft and next years draft. If you draft him, take him into traingin camp with the idea of waiting to see what happens to Manning, you get nothing for Luck this year and worst case scenario, Luck gets hurt and then you are screwed because the Colts have other needs than just getting Manning back.

Your great QB comment -has me thinking though - Luck is probably the only QB out there that can potentially come in do what Manning does. That is run the offense as well as QB. He is probably the best heir apparent that the Colts can pick for QB. IMO, for the Colts to draft Luck to sit, they would have to determine that they don't have many wholes to fill and that their collapse was due to Manning not being there because he is the OC and QB and he inspires the D to give their best because they know he has their backs - that's a stretch, but they were a play-off team last year with basically the same personnel.

the Colts will choose between the obvious

draft picks and players to help the franchise long term

OR

draft the future great QB and have him ready for when they need him



they're drafting Andrew Luck - they can have their cake and eat it too

I tend to agree with the following article:

http://www.indystar.com/article/2011120 ... work-Colts

SkinsJock wrote:

1niksder wrote:If Peyton is ready to play prior to the draft why would they draft Luck?
They could target a QB that NEEDS to sit for a year or two. They could trade the #1 pick and still get their targeted guy. Not having PM was major problem in Indy but it wasn't their only problem ... extra picks would go a long way in fixing them

TOTALLY see your reasoning ... but here's my thinking

Peyton does not look like he's going to be 100% - good but not the greatness we're used to seeing

The Colts have not placed Manning on injured reserve in the hopes Manning could play or practice this year. Manning is now throwing again, but he hasn’t been cleared for practice. He'll have the whole off-season and OTAs to get back to being 100%, then we both know a 85% Manning is better than 85% of the QBs in the league.

SkinsJock wrote:A QB like Andrew Luck is just too good to pass up - they will take him with their pick
It's hard to believe that a franchise should have this opportunity

They'll pay Manning another $28M in March and have other needs on the Offensive side of the ball.

SkinsJock wrote:Andrew Luck is going to be VERY good - they would be crazy to let him go

They don't have him so they wouldn't be letting him go, they would be using his potential has part of their reason for the high asking price to allow another team to select him. With a healthy Peyton they can drop in the draft order and get what everyone knows is needed in Indy... a backup QB

SkinsJock wrote:I cannot believe the Colts have lost every game - they have Mathis and Freeney at DE - the defense should not have been this bad

Mathis and Freeney have 13 of the Colts 21 sacks, so they are doing their part but don't have a lot of help. Picking off one pass for every interception that your QBs throws and having the same ratio when it comes to fumbles recovered means a defense that it playing tired.

SkinsJock wrote:all teams have issues but the Colts have a very good FO and they will be OK - they are not far off from being good again

They're closer to being 0-16 than a good team let alone a very good team. Unless Manning is healthy and they get something for the first pick that helps Manning.

SkinsJock wrote:I agree that they did not lose all those games just because they had bad play from the QB position
The Colts are not going to rebuild - they just need to adjust some things

They need to adjust quite a few things

SkinsJock wrote:one more thing - why not draft Luck and see what happens with Manning

they could still get a bunch of players and picks for Andrew Luck

I just don't think that the Colts FO is going to let the opportunity to have another great QB for many years to come pass by


I will add that if it was my team we'd be trying to add as many draft picks as possible EVERY draft
I've seen first hand what a franchise is like that does not add as many talented young players as possible each & every draft

Listen up. If Manning is healthy, the Colts are gonna draft Luck and trade him. Manning will play for the next 3-5 years and there's absolutely no way Luck's gonna ride the pine for that long. They'll draft luck, trade him for a first this year and a slew of picks. They still get a top 4 QB this draft and he'll be able to ride the pine for 3 years while he learns under Manning. Very similar situation to Farve and Rodgers. End of discussion.
If he is not healthy, all bets are off.

SkinsJock wrote:one more thing - why not draft Luck and see what happens with Manning

they could still get a bunch of players and picks for Andrew Luck

I just don't think that the Colts FO is going to let the opportunity to have another great QB for many years to come pass by


I will add that if it was my team we'd be trying to add as many draft picks as possible EVERY draft
I've seen first hand what a franchise is like that does not add as many talented young players as possible each & every draft

And further, the Colts HAVE to make the decision on Manning BEFORE the draft as the 28 million bonus is due before that time. A team is not going to draft him, take him to camp and decide at that point to trade him. That makes no sense. Not only the bonus due, but his value goes down after the draft. The teams that need QB's have most likely drafted one and the amount of teams bidding for him have dried up.

Not sure WHY you'd draft Luck and then trade him for draft picks this year
why not trade the top pick?

the Colts are going to take Andrew Luck because having another great QB is just too good a chance to pass up

PLUS - I do not think that Manning (or the Colts) think that it's likely he'll be starting for much longer

Irn-Bru wrote:So what's the argument here, that Luck would refuse to go to the Colts if he had to sit on the bench for one year while Peyton continued to play? Ridiculous.

No. He will not go to the Colts if Manning is 100% and ready to play for the next 3-5 years. Luck is NOT going to want to ride the bench that long. Indy can (and probably will) draft Luck, but I see them trading him away quicker than a heartbeat if Manning is ready to go next year.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:So what's the argument here, that Luck would refuse to go to the Colts if he had to sit on the bench for one year while Peyton continued to play? Ridiculous.

No. He will not go to the Colts if Manning is 100% and ready to play for the next 3-5 years. Luck is NOT going to want to ride the bench that long. Indy can (and probably will) draft Luck, but I see them trading him away quicker than a heartbeat if Manning is ready to go next year.

We should know what they intend to do before FA begins. From what I've heard, Peyton is due that 28M prior to the league year opening. That means he is untradable w/o a contract modification.

The Colts aren't going to pay him then trade him and they can't trade him before they pay him. If he is unwilling to mod his contract then they might have to cut him if he isn't in their plans.

Someone asked why they would draft Luck and then trade him, well there are a couple of reasons. One, they might not have the deal they want when the pick is due. Two, they may decide to draft him and then wait to see if the player they want is available at the spot where the team that is offering the trade is drafting. Say the team in the tenth spot offers a trade that is acceptable, but Indy is afraid that the player they really want will be gone by ten they could draft Luck, hold on to him until the tenth pick then make the trade if the player they want is still there.

This is similar to what San Diego did when they state Eli.

We aren't getting Luck unless we mortgage the future. I doubt we will do that.

We SUCK.

Thus, we should wind up with Barley, Griffin, or Jones which is still A WIN.

Thanks,

I really hope it is Griffin... It would probably be too much to ask to fix the oline and get a QB and find a corner and a safety. Lets start with a QB and in later rounds try to find interior linemen on O. I think we can live for another season with the type of receivers we have and maybe even secondary. I really hate seeing all the drops and also hate seeing us getting eaten up by the pass. That might have to wait until the off season after next.

^^^ what the Hogster said

we will NOT be getting Luck and most likely will not get Barkley

we ARE getting one of the top QBs in this draft - hopefully he can play soon



The FO should NOT trade up in the 1st round - we need to add young players and quality depth for both lines

The Hogster wrote:We aren't getting Luck unless we mortgage the future. I doubt we will do that.

That's the only way I see us getting Luck...if we get rid of everything. I do NOT want to waste all of our draft picks on an unproven commodity. A QB alone will not magically fix this franchise. I'd like to see us get Griffin as well.

The Hogster wrote:We aren't getting Luck unless we mortgage the future. I doubt we will do that.

We SUCK.

Thus, we should wind up with Barley, Griffin, or Jones which is still A WIN.

Thanks,

I think there's very little chance that we end up with Griffin. I think it was you that alluded to it in another post, but drafting Griffin would require Mike/Kyle to change the offense to fit what Griffin can do now and what his strengths are, and there is no indication so far from this staff that they are willing to do that. Griffin will require a lot of work (much more than Barkley or even Jones) to become the type of qb that the Shanahans want.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:We aren't getting Luck unless we mortgage the future. I doubt we will do that.

We SUCK.

Thus, we should wind up with Barley, Griffin, or Jones which is still A WIN.

Thanks,

I think there's very little chance that we end up with Griffin. I think it was you that alluded to it in another post, but drafting Griffin would require Mike/Kyle to change the offense to fit what Griffin can do now and what his strengths are, and there is no indication so far from this staff that they are willing to do that. Griffin will require a lot of work (much more than Barkley or even Jones) to become the type of qb that the Shanahans want.

+1

Exactly. I like RG3. He's a dynamic athlete. But, you're right--I don't think Kid Kyle is the right Coordinator for him. Kyle hasn't shown that he'd adjust his scheme to maximize Griffin's ability.

I like it - we get R Griffin III (or Landry Jones) - he becomes a great QB and leader for 10-12 years or more

Mike finally tells Kyle to adjust what he does to suit the players he has, NOT what he thinks will work offensively

it's a win/win






now ... can we figure out how to CONSISTENTLY get more pressure on the QB WITHOUT blitzing?
that will make the secondary look like one of the best in the NFL

SkinsJock wrote:I like it - we get R Griffin III (or Landry Jones) - he becomes a great QB and leader for 10-12 years or more

Mike finally tells Kyle to adjust what he does to suit the players he has, NOT what he thinks will work offensively

it's a win/win

nah... its wong wong, as Elmer Fudd might say... Kyle ain't adapting. OTOH... Griffin can very quickly learn a significant portion of Kyle's style, in the same way that they were using Beck... you will recall, that, with Beck in the game, Kyle took advantage of his mobility to help out the O-line, via the boot leg, moving him out of the pocket, and helping to extend plays that way. This is something that is immediately available to a player like RGIII...

This is part of Kyles scheme that is not used very much with Grossman... in other words, Kyle does have scheme components that will take advantage of an athletic quarterback's skills... I don't see Kyle as being an obstruction to Griffins growth here.

now ... can we figure out how to CONSISTENTLY get more pressure on the QB WITHOUT blitzing?
that will make the secondary look like one of the best in the NFL

There is a DE currently on IR who is a big piece of the answer here... He will act as a multiplier for both Kerrigan and Orakpo, because he will demand attention.