The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

yupchagee wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Stallworth makes the team?

He can still get behind people. He can win jump balls. He's a seasoned pro and turns 31 in November. He's a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size.Kelly just got hurt, right? Foot?

Malcolm Kelly came into camp saying he was 100% and ready to go. Likewise, Brandon Banks came into camp ready to prove his rookie season was no fluke, his off the field issues were behind him, and he could contribute as a wide receiver. At the moment, both will be doing nothing at all as they are not practice this morning.

Yesterday, Malcolm Kelly suffered what appeared to be foot injury and was attended to by the staff on the field. Meanwhile, Brandon Banks has been on the sidelines not taking any work and not even having a helmet. This does not bode well for either player, who need to make their mark as the wide receiver position is primed and deep. For Kelly, the arrival of Jabar Gaffney and the drafting of Leonard Hankerson certainly impede on his chances of making the team solely because he is a big target. The fact that he also does not play special teams is another factor. In Bank’s case, he needs to show he can play offesne. Draftee Niles Paul can also return kicks and is seeing some reps at receiver. Also, not a good sign for him.

Look for these guys to move quickly or else, they will be moving to find new employment

Riggo

DarthMonk

Last year Moss caught 93 passes, Stallworth caught 2.

Correct, the same number as Brandon Banks.

Of course, Banks netted 10 yards on those catches while Stallworth netted 82.

As for Moss, he was also the number one target on a team with almost nothing at wideout. He was essentially Wes Welker without competition for being targeted.

Meanwhile, Stallworth played behind guys with 64 catches (Boldin), 61 catches (Mason), and 30 catches (Houshmandzadeh) not to mention a few TEs who caught another 50 balls.

Moss has averaged 12 yards a catch for his career while Stallworth has gone for 15. Moss' 93 catches produced 6 TDs. Moss typically gets a TD around every 12 catches - Stallworth every 9 catches. Stallworth may be done while Moss was not as of last year.

Clearly, my claim that Stallworth is a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size is about tools, not production last year.

I am absolutely going out on a limb saying Stallworth makes the squad.

He looks good to me. We acquired him for a reason and I don't think it is simply to serve as "camp fodder." Could end up that way though.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Stallworth makes the team?

He can still get behind people. He can win jump balls. He's a seasoned pro and turns 31 in November. He's a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size.Kelly just got hurt, right? Foot?

Malcolm Kelly came into camp saying he was 100% and ready to go. Likewise, Brandon Banks came into camp ready to prove his rookie season was no fluke, his off the field issues were behind him, and he could contribute as a wide receiver. At the moment, both will be doing nothing at all as they are not practice this morning.

Yesterday, Malcolm Kelly suffered what appeared to be foot injury and was attended to by the staff on the field. Meanwhile, Brandon Banks has been on the sidelines not taking any work and not even having a helmet. This does not bode well for either player, who need to make their mark as the wide receiver position is primed and deep. For Kelly, the arrival of Jabar Gaffney and the drafting of Leonard Hankerson certainly impede on his chances of making the team solely because he is a big target. The fact that he also does not play special teams is another factor. In Bank’s case, he needs to show he can play offesne. Draftee Niles Paul can also return kicks and is seeing some reps at receiver. Also, not a good sign for him.

Look for these guys to move quickly or else, they will be moving to find new employment

Riggo

DarthMonk

Last year Moss caught 93 passes, Stallworth caught 2.

Correct, the same number as Brandon Banks.

Of course, Banks netted 10 yards on those catches while Stallworth netted 82.

As for Moss, he was also the number one target on a team with almost nothing at wideout. He was essentially Wes Welker without competition for being targeted.

Meanwhile, Stallworth played behind guys with 64 catches (Boldin), 61 catches (Mason), and 30 catches (Houshmandzadeh) not to mention a few TEs who caught another 50 balls.

Moss has averaged 12 yards a catch for his career while Stallworth has gone for 15. Moss' 93 catches produced 6 TDs. Moss typically gets a TD around every 12 catches - Stallworth every 9 catches. Stallworth may be done while Moss was not as of last year.

Clearly, my claim that Stallworth is a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size is about tools, not production last year.

I am absolutely going out on a limb saying Stallworth makes the squad.

He looks good to me. We acquired him for a reason and I don't think it is simply to serve as "camp fodder." Could end up that way though.

DarthMonk

Stallworth HAD the tools at one time. I don't think he still has them. Comparing them 5-6 years ago means nothing now. My gurss is he won't make the team, but time will tell.

Might as well go out on a limb.

In alphabetical order:

Armstrong 28
Gaffney 30
Hankerson 22
Moss 32
Paul 21
Robinson 22
Stallworth 30

Gaffney is more likely to make it than Stallworth as we traded for him. AA could be a shocker cut. I think these 7 end up with us one way or another once the season starts.

Any of them hurt right now?

DarthMonlk

Red_One43 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Stallworth makes the team?

He can still get behind people. He can win jump balls. He's a seasoned pro and turns 31 in November. He's a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size.

I think that he can make the team. I don't have him in my six or seven because of numbers. - he's the odd guy out. I like the young guys - Paul and Robinson. I don't think that you are way out there to think that he will make it. He is still a good receiver.

Refresh my memory - who are your 6 right now?

DarthMonk wrote:Might as well go out on a limb.

In alphabetical order:

Armstrong 28
Gaffney 30
Hankerson 22
Moss 32
Paul 21
Robinson 22
Stallworth 30

Gaffney is more likely to make it than Stallworth as we traded for him. AA could be a shocker cut. I think these 7 end up with us one way or another once the season starts.

Any of them hurt right now?

DarthMonlk

Red_One43 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Stallworth makes the team?

He can still get behind people. He can win jump balls. He's a seasoned pro and turns 31 in November. He's a slighly younger Santana Moss with more size.

I think that he can make the team. I don't have him in my six or seven because of numbers. - he's the odd guy out. I like the young guys - Paul and Robinson. I don't think that you are way out there to think that he will make it. He is still a good receiver.

Refresh my memory - who are your 6 right now?

None of your guys are hurt.

That's a good group to start with.
I believe that Armstrong, Moss and Hankerson are locks to make the team.
Paul is looking good in camp. He is a special teams guru - I say he will make the team. Highly Probable.
Gaffney is 6'2". We traded for him so Shanny must see something he likes. I can't call him a lock, because Jarmon was probably not going to make our team, so the reduces the trade incentive to keep him. I say highly probable he is on the team.
Robinson - If he proves that he can get separation in the pre-season games and practice as described in the article posted earlier, and catches the ball, he makes the team. Right now, heis probable.

Here is where you and I differ, but are thinking the same. I know Stallworth can still play. No problem with your thinking, but I ask myself, what can he give us that I am not getting from the 6 above? Height? Speed? Hands? Experience? Special Teams? All of that is above.
For seven, I have to go with Banks. What can Banks give me that I am not getting above? Banks has something that cannot be taught speed and vision. He also knows how to get up field. Robinson and Paul might be good returners in their own right, but Banks is gifted. If I keep 7, I keep Banks. If I keep 6, I showcase Banks during pre-season and I trade him. Why? He can't give me the overall special teams play of Paul - KOR, KO, PR, PC and can play wideout. Robinson has the maturity of a disciplined route runner and he should be a good PR since he received high marks from Scouts in open field running. Gafney is a good vet who is 6'2". The rest are locks.
I am looking for Shanny to showcase Austin during pre-season to trade him. He is too good to just release. What I mean by showcase is get him the ball a lot.

After the first pre-season game, I will re-look.
I will be keying on Stallworth and Malcom Kelly.

Here's a tough one for you, DarthMonk, what if Shanny says heis keeping 6? Is Sallworth the guy you drop?

Quick commment/question on Banks:

Was he cut then brought back last year? Was he briefly a practice squad guy or was he original 47? Can't remember.

I feel like he barely made the team last year and that the slightest injury takes his edge away. I worry about him being fragile and a one-trick pony - oh - and he has a fumbling problem ... but he did make some elite plays.

I'll never forget crazyhorse1's "Robbing Banks" post.

PS - I predict one of my 7 is "hidden" on IR.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:Quick commment/question on Banks:

Was he cut then brought back last year? Was he briefly a practice squad guy or was he original 47? Can't remember.

I feel like he barely made the team last year and that the slightest injury takes his edge away. I worry about him being fragile and a one-trick pony - oh - and he has a fumbling problem ... but he did make some elite plays.

I'll never forget crazyhorse1's "Robbing Banks" post.

PS - I predict one of my 7 is "hidden" on IR.

DarthMonk

Banks made the original 53, was cut, placed on PS & then brought back.
My guess is that he spends this year on IR.

My guesses for roster:
Moss, Armstrong, Gaffney & Hank are virtual locks. After that it is wide open for the last 1-2 spots.

yupchagee wrote:
Banks made the original 53, was cut, placed on PS & then brought back.
My guess is that he spends this year on IR.

My guesses for roster:
Moss, Armstrong, Gaffney & Hank are virtual locks. After that it is wide open for the last 1-2 spots.

+1

I had Banks not making the team right after the draft if they brought in a vet and re-signed Moss. They traded for a vet and brought one in after re-signing Moss, so Banks will not make the roster but I can see him on IR

1niksder wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
Banks made the original 53, was cut, placed on PS & then brought back.
My guess is that he spends this year on IR.

My guesses for roster:
Moss, Armstrong, Gaffney & Hank are virtual locks. After that it is wide open for the last 1-2 spots.

+1

I had Banks not making the team right after the draft if they brought in a vet and re-signed Moss. They traded for a vet and brought one in after re-signing Moss, so Banks will not make the roster but I can see him on IR

I can totally see IR for Banks as an option.l I belive that Shanny likes him and he can't get on the field, he can't be showcased. I don't think that Shnny wants to cut him and get nothing. IR would be a good solution.

Red_One43 wrote:Here's a tough one for you, DarthMonk, what if Shanny says heis keeping 6? Is Sallworth the guy you drop?

I'm on record as preaching patience and not falling into the "we're close" mentality/trap. I've also said in all close calls go with youth.

Even though I love Moss I might not have brought him back. Given that he is re-signed and given that I could only go with 6, I, DarthMonk, as coach/GM, would choose

Armstrong 28
Gaffney 30
Hankerson 22
Moss 32
Paul 21
Robinson 22

But the Redskins have a GM and a coach and the coach has divided loyalties. Part of him wants to think ahead and side with youth while another part of him wants to win as many games as possible.

If I were the coach only, on a team with a classic set up where my GM has provided me with the current roster, I pick Stallworth over Robinson. Stallworth will help me more this year.

At this point Shanny seems to have picked Stallworth over Robinson as well but has Austin ahead of Paul. Austin and Robinson are both ahead of Paul on KR.

PS - off topic but I like Montgomery at center.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:Here's a tough one for you, DarthMonk, what if Shanny says heis keeping 6? Is Sallworth the guy you drop?

I'm on record as preaching patience and not falling into the "we're close" mentality/trap. I've also said in all close calls go with youth.

Even though I love Moss I might not have brought him back. Given that he is re-signed and given that I could only go with 6, I, DarthMonk, as coach/GM, would choose

Armstrong 28
Gaffney 30
Hankerson 22
Moss 32
Paul 21
Robinson 22

But the Redskins have a GM and a coach and the coach has divided loyalties. Part of him wants to think ahead and side with youth while another part of him wants to win as many games as possible.

If I were the coach only, on a team with a classic set up where my GM has provided me with the current roster, I pick Stallworth over Robinson. Stallworth will help me more this year.

At this point Shanny seems to have picked Stallworth over Robinson as well but has Austin ahead of Paul. Austin and Robinson are both ahead of Paul on KR.

PS - off topic but I like Montgomery at center.

DarthMonk

That is my six as well. I agree with putting the Stallworth and Austin over Robinson and Paul at this point - Vets over rookies starting out. Keep the rookies hungry. With the KR, Robinson didn't return kicks much in college, we need to see what he can do and Austin needs to shine here to make this team. Paul will make the team because he can play several ST roles as well as fill in at receiver. I understand Banks is first team KOR and PR.

Red_One43's list before the Steelers game.

1. AA - Starter
2. Moss - slot
3. Gafney - Starter
4. Hank - Replace Gafney as a starter late in the season
5. Paul - KOR
6. Robinson - PR

7? Banks - If we keep six, I look for Banks to be shopped for a trade even if he is the top return guy in pre-season. Why keep him if we keep 7 receivers? (Shanny said that you can never have too many returners).

I personally like Stalworth which is why I had a hard time saying no for him.

After the Steeler's game:

1. Moss - Starter
2. Gafney - Starter
3. AA - Definitely can stretch the field.
4. Hank - 50/50, but he has a lot of upside
5. Stallworth - He showed that he can still stretch the field
6. Paul - Next game we should see him get his chance to return kicks
7. Banks - If Banks continues to shine like tonight, I will have to find a way to keep him. I think he did increase he trade value though.

Robinson PS - Did it show that he never returned punts before?
Austin - Try to showcase him for a trade.
Kelly - cut

Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are going to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

Red_One43 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are gong to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

Austin was active so few games last season, he can go back on the practice squad. But surely someone will pick him up

1niksder wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are going to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

Austin was active so few games last season, he can go back on the practice squad. But surely someone will pick him up

If I were the coach, Austin, would be one of the hardest cuts to make. I agree someone would snatch him up from the PS. That is why I would try to Tryonize (trade) him. Call his number a lot like last year (he led the team in preseason receptions) and showcase him.

Red_One43 wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are going to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

Austin was active so few games last season, he can go back on the practice squad. But surely someone will pick him up

If I were the coach, Austin, would be one of the hardest cuts to make. I agree someone would snatch him up from the PS. That is why I would try to Tryonize (trade) him. Call his number a lot like last year (he led the team in preseason receptions) and showcase him.

If we're looking to unload him, we'd never do that. It would be silly to use our precious snaps to get a low round draft pick over using them to develop the players we have.

Red_One43 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are going to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

LOL....ok

Moss, Gaffney, AA, Hank, and 1 other big/tall guy.

Austin and Banks for Spec Teams....

The rest is a TOSS UP

my 2 cents:

WR
Tana
Gaffney
AAA
Paul
Hankerson
(Maybe one more, but doubtful)

KR/PR
Banks

Banks is just too damned dangerous a returner to cast asside. he makes the team as a KR/PR and isn't counted on to be a WR. His big play ability is something the Skins have not had in decades!

He makes the team just like a snapper, a kicker and a punter. You use 4 roster spots on ST and the other 49 for the rest! That gives you 24 spots for offense and 24 for defense and one more to put where ever.

numbers at each spot on O:

QB -3
RB - 3
FB - 1
OL - 9
TE - 3
WR - 5

Numbers for D:

DL - 7
LB - 8
CB - 5
S - 4

That leaves one extra person, probably a RB, FB, or TE

skinsfan#33 wrote:my 2 cents:

WR
Tana
Gaffney
AAA
Paul
Hankerson
(Maybe one more, but doubtful)

KR/PR
Banks

Banks is just too damned dangerous a returner to cast asside. he makes the team as a KR/PR and isn't counted on to be a WR. His big play ability is something the Skins have not had in decades!

He makes the team just like a snapper, a kicker and a punter. You use 4 roster spots on ST and the other 49 for the rest! That gives you 24 spots for offense and 24 for defense and one more to put where ever.

numbers at each spot on O:

QB -3
RB - 3
FB - 1
OL - 9
TE - 3
WR - 5

Numbers for D:

DL - 7
LB - 8
CB - 5
S - 4

That leaves one extra person, probably a RB, FB, or TE

A 4th TE is doubtful. A 2nd FB or 5th S more likely.

Shanahan: Brandon Banks had "a few CCs" of fluid drained from his surgically-repaired left knee. Banks sat out today's practice.

tribeofjudah wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Why isn't Terrance Austin in this conversation??? He did show some flashes...

I like him. I wouldn't argue against him being on somebody's list. I just can't find a way to keep him over the other guys I want. I also want to find a way to keep Banks.

Besides Hank dropping a a pass or two and Robinson getting scaredititis of punts - all the receivers looked good as far as catching the ball. Route running and blocking - I will leave that up to the coaches to decipher that.

I looked over this thread, I haven't seen your six. How are you are going to keep him?

C'mon, Tribe. Take a chance and post your six. You can always change it as you see more games and read more about practices.

LOL....ok

Moss, Gaffney, AA, Hank, and 1 other big/tall guy.

Austin and Banks for Spec Teams....

The rest is a TOSS UP

1 other tall guy? Since you said "other" I assume that excludes Kelly. Are you saying look for another receiver - free agent or some guy who will be released in the future?

Austin is impressing, but Paul caught the pass thrown to him and we have yet to see him return kicks. Unlike Robinson, he has a strong history of returning kicks.

Thanks for posting. It should be fun to see if what adjustments, we on this thread, might make after game two and/or from what we hear about practice.

^^^^....any tall receiver with good hands and speed.

NO to Malcolm Kelly.
T.O., that's a maybe
Randy Moss - did he retire.....hahaha

Kelly is not done yet... but, he needs to get on the field pretty quickly.

tribeofjudah wrote:^^^^....any tall receiver with good hands and speed.

NO to Malcolm Kelly.
T.O., that's a maybe
Randy Moss - did he retire.....hahaha

Dump the popcorn say N.O. to T.O.!

Countertrey wrote:Kelly is not done yet... but, he needs to get on the field pretty quickly.

I will not be disapointed if I have to add Kelly to my list of 6 - yes, he does need to get on the field quickly.

Does anyone know if he practiced today?