The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

what's the point here

The point is that McNabb is showing his age much more than pretty much everyone thought he would and we have no player on the roster that is a viable alternative for the future.

I'm not sure how you equate throwing pics to showing his age. I could understand if you said he was losing arm strength, or not running as fast (though that could be attributable to injury just as easily), but his INT to TD ratio is not something I think is age related.

Do you get the sense Donovan McNabb could use a bye week? I wouldn’t even blame him if, six days hence, he pulled a Tony Romo and headed to Cancun – just to get as far away from drooling pass rushers as possible.

McNabb’s first seven games as a Redskin have tested him as much as he’s ever been – emotionally, mentally, physically, every which way. He’s had to deal with being discarded by the Eagles. He’s had to rewire his brain to run Mike Shanahan’s offense. He’s had to take his fair share of lumps behind a rebuilt line. And he’s had to accept the fact that, given the weapons at his disposal, the yards and points will come much harder this year.

The toll this has taken on McNabb seemed increasingly evident in the slapdash 17-14 win over the Bears. His accuracy – never his strongest suit – was even spottier than usual (17 of 32), and he threw a particularly bad interception, while in the grip of a defender, that was returned for a touchdown. He’s now had an INT in five straight games, something he hasn’t done in the same season since 2001, when he was still a pup.

But it’s his body language as much as anything. He looks weary. He looks exasperated. And who could blame him? The offense is a junker pieced together mostly from spare parts. He’s a six-time Pro Bowler, and he’s being asked to drive a bucket of bolts.

The man needs a week off.

He’ll get one, too – but only after he dispenses with Detroit this weekend. The Lions don’t have an outside rusher like DeMarcus Ware, Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney or Julius Peppers, but they have a rookie tackle, Ndamukong Suh, who was fined for a hit on a quarterback before he’d played in his first regular-season game. Rest assured Donovan will keep an eye out for him.

These first seven games haven’t just been an education for McNabb, they’ve been an education for everybody – Shanahan and Redskins Nation included. After all, expectations might have been high when the trade with Philadelphia was made, but no one was totally sure how the experiment would turn out. How much did Donovan, who turns 34 next month, have left? Why did the Eagles – a level-headed, highly successful organization – decide to go in a different direction?

That might explain why McNabb, in the last year of his contract, has yet to sign a long-term deal: Both sides are still making up their minds. In Donovan’s case, he might be wondering whether he’d be better off playing for Brad Childress, the former Eagles assistant, in Minnesota – assuming, that is, Brett Favre finally retires, for good, at the end of the season.

Let’s face it, the Redskins’ offense is a year or two away; they need receiving help, they need to further firm up the line and they need to determine whether Ryan Torain is the long-term answer at running back or merely a blowout patch. A year or two is a long time, though, when you’re McNabb’s age. He might not want to wait that long.

So that’s another thing that’s weighing on him like a clingy defensive end: The Future. Should he stay or should he go?

If McNabb comes across as battle-fatigued, then, it’s perfectly understandable. The past month has been positively brutal – his first return to Philly, followed by a pretty good working over by the Packers, followed by a head-to-head with Peyton Manning, followed by another head-to-head with Jay Cutler, Shanahan’s former pupil. There was hardly a place in there to take a deep breath.

(For that matter, has anyone else noticed that, in the last three games, McNabb hasn’t taken off on one of his patented third-down mad dashes? Is this an indication of tiredness, too? Granted, he’s not the ramblin’ man he used to be, but he had some key runs early in the season.)

Then there’s his passer rating. This, in fairness, can be a team statistic as much as an individual one, but McNabb’s ratings so far have been 63.4, 119, 79.7, 60.2, 75.0, 67.5 and 56.8. That’s right, his rating has dropped the past two weeks – and only once all season has he topped 80, which is no better than average.

Am I down on McNabb? No (probably because I was never as “up” on him as others). In fact, I find myself appreciating more and more the intangibles he brings to a team, especially his game-day demeanor. Other quarterbacks in his circumstances might have been throwing helmets by now, creating all kinds of drama. Donovan has been a rock. Never points a finger. Never lets the frustration – and there’s been plenty of it – overwhelm him.

But the guy could definitely use a vacation, a few days to clear his head and recharge his energy pack for the even bigger games ahead. The Redskins, fighting for a playoff spot, need him to be at his absolute best the rest of the way – whatever his absolute best is at this stage of his career . . . and with this kind of supporting cast.

tcwest10 wrote:Younger boss in the workplace always winds up with some senior guy feeling weird about it. Just curious here...how many other OC's in the league are younger than the starting QB?

CanesSkins26 wrote:This is an interesting read on McNabb...

Do you get the sense Donovan McNabb could use a bye week? I wouldn’t even blame him if, six days hence, he pulled a Tony Romo and headed to Cancun – just to get as far away from drooling pass rushers as possible.

McNabb’s first seven games as a Redskin have tested him as much as he’s ever been – emotionally, mentally, physically, every which way. He’s had to deal with being discarded by the Eagles. He’s had to rewire his brain to run Mike Shanahan’s offense. He’s had to take his fair share of lumps behind a rebuilt line. And he’s had to accept the fact that, given the weapons at his disposal, the yards and points will come much harder this year.

The toll this has taken on McNabb seemed increasingly evident in the slapdash 17-14 win over the Bears. His accuracy – never his strongest suit – was even spottier than usual (17 of 32), and he threw a particularly bad interception, while in the grip of a defender, that was returned for a touchdown. He’s now had an INT in five straight games, something he hasn’t done in the same season since 2001, when he was still a pup.

But it’s his body language as much as anything. He looks weary. He looks exasperated. And who could blame him? The offense is a junker pieced together mostly from spare parts. He’s a six-time Pro Bowler, and he’s being asked to drive a bucket of bolts.

The man needs a week off.

He’ll get one, too – but only after he dispenses with Detroit this weekend. The Lions don’t have an outside rusher like DeMarcus Ware, Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney or Julius Peppers, but they have a rookie tackle, Ndamukong Suh, who was fined for a hit on a quarterback before he’d played in his first regular-season game. Rest assured Donovan will keep an eye out for him.

These first seven games haven’t just been an education for McNabb, they’ve been an education for everybody – Shanahan and Redskins Nation included. After all, expectations might have been high when the trade with Philadelphia was made, but no one was totally sure how the experiment would turn out. How much did Donovan, who turns 34 next month, have left? Why did the Eagles – a level-headed, highly successful organization – decide to go in a different direction?

That might explain why McNabb, in the last year of his contract, has yet to sign a long-term deal: Both sides are still making up their minds. In Donovan’s case, he might be wondering whether he’d be better off playing for Brad Childress, the former Eagles assistant, in Minnesota – assuming, that is, Brett Favre finally retires, for good, at the end of the season.

Let’s face it, the Redskins’ offense is a year or two away; they need receiving help, they need to further firm up the line and they need to determine whether Ryan Torain is the long-term answer at running back or merely a blowout patch. A year or two is a long time, though, when you’re McNabb’s age. He might not want to wait that long.

So that’s another thing that’s weighing on him like a clingy defensive end: The Future. Should he stay or should he go?

If McNabb comes across as battle-fatigued, then, it’s perfectly understandable. The past month has been positively brutal – his first return to Philly, followed by a pretty good working over by the Packers, followed by a head-to-head with Peyton Manning, followed by another head-to-head with Jay Cutler, Shanahan’s former pupil. There was hardly a place in there to take a deep breath.

(For that matter, has anyone else noticed that, in the last three games, McNabb hasn’t taken off on one of his patented third-down mad dashes? Is this an indication of tiredness, too? Granted, he’s not the ramblin’ man he used to be, but he had some key runs early in the season.)

Then there’s his passer rating. This, in fairness, can be a team statistic as much as an individual one, but McNabb’s ratings so far have been 63.4, 119, 79.7, 60.2, 75.0, 67.5 and 56.8. That’s right, his rating has dropped the past two weeks – and only once all season has he topped 80, which is no better than average.

Am I down on McNabb? No (probably because I was never as “up” on him as others). In fact, I find myself appreciating more and more the intangibles he brings to a team, especially his game-day demeanor. Other quarterbacks in his circumstances might have been throwing helmets by now, creating all kinds of drama. Donovan has been a rock. Never points a finger. Never lets the frustration – and there’s been plenty of it – overwhelm him.

But the guy could definitely use a vacation, a few days to clear his head and recharge his energy pack for the even bigger games ahead. The Redskins, fighting for a playoff spot, need him to be at his absolute best the rest of the way – whatever his absolute best is at this stage of his career . . . and with this kind of supporting cast.

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/10/defenses-contract-questions-taking-toll-on-mcnabb-25396.html

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

what's the point here

The point is that McNabb is showing his age much more than pretty much everyone thought he would and we have no player on the roster that is a viable alternative for the future.

I'm not sure how you equate throwing pics to showing his age. I could understand if you said he was losing arm strength, or not running as fast (though that could be attributable to injury just as easily), but his INT to TD ratio is not something I think is age related.

Well, I think that his mobility clearly is suffering. I don't know if it is his age or ankle injury, hopefully the injury. The perfect example is the play where he could have run for the first down but instead chose to slide two yards short of the marker. He isn't a pure pocket passer and his mobility and movement is what makes him a good quarterback. If he loses that you aren't really left with much.

VetSkin Wrote:
I'll summarize:

McNabb didn't win this game for us with his mediocre play and I don't think it's fair to the defense or the run game that you do give him the credit. Is that plain enough for you or shall I use crayons? When I took my intro to psychology class many years ago, they said some people need colors to better learn and comprehend material. I'd do that for you, big guy.

McNabb is better than most of the QB's in the league.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

McNabb is better than most of the QB's in the league.

What do you consider "most"? McNabb is a top 15 qb at this point in his career, but it's very debatable if he is top 10.

CanesSkins26 wrote:They updated their stats today. McNabb is now 21st in DYAR.

FO wrote:26. Donovan McNabb WAS 17/32 200 1 2 -54 -53 -2
McNabb fumbled twice, threw two interceptions and had a third taken away by a delay of game penalty, and picked up two first downs over the final 44 minutes of the game. Meanwhile, McNabb's now completing 56.5 percent of his passes and has thrown more interceptions (seven) than touchdowns (six). The biggest difference between this season and last season for the Redskins? They're 4-2 in games decided by a touchdown or less after going 2-7 in those games last year.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:They updated their stats today. McNabb is now 21st in DYAR.

Ah, yes, he fell much further than I expected he would. Looks like the two fumbles and INT that was taken away by a penalty factored into it:

FO wrote:26. Donovan McNabb WAS 17/32 200 1 2 -54 -53 -2
McNabb fumbled twice, threw two interceptions and had a third taken away by a delay of game penalty, and picked up two first downs over the final 44 minutes of the game. Meanwhile, McNabb's now completing 56.5 percent of his passes and has thrown more interceptions (seven) than touchdowns (six). The biggest difference between this season and last season for the Redskins? They're 4-2 in games decided by a touchdown or less after going 2-7 in those games last year.

Shabutie wrote:They mentioned the pick that got called back. I don't think they actually factored it in, although it was absolutley terrible.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Shabutie wrote:They mentioned the pick that got called back. I don't think they actually factored it in, although it was absolutley terrible.

It might still have some weight in their analysis. They've made their own judgments about what should count and how much it should weigh. For instance, according to FO recovering fumbles is essentially random: there's no way to track what teams or players are "good" at it, and it appears to be more happenstance than anything else. So, they tend to weigh all fumbles equally, even if the same team recovers it.

So I'm not sure that they dropped the INT-delay-of-game play from their rankings. It wouldn't surprise me if it had some weight in McNabb's assessment. (They might have; I just don't know.)

The Hogster wrote:

VetSkin Wrote:
I'll summarize:

McNabb didn't win this game for us with his mediocre play and I don't think it's fair to the defense or the run game that you do give him the credit. Is that plain enough for you or shall I use crayons? When I took my intro to psychology class many years ago, they said some people need colors to better learn and comprehend material. I'd do that for you, big guy.

As an ex-Army guy myself, I can say this. There is no such thing as military intelligence Vet. So save the condescending attempts at appearing intellectual. You're not.

Now that that's out of the way, let's get to the point of why you are talking out of your arse in a direction that nobody is walking in. Nobody said "McNabb won this game" with his mediocre or stellar play. In fact, the very point I have been making all thread long is that you can't single out McNabb as the sole reason that we are winning OR losing.

It's a team game. You can't only blame a Running Back for a poor outing if he has no room to run. You can't blame a WR for not catching passes if the QB misses him. You can't blame a QB for a poor outing if there is poor pass protection, dropped passes, etc. It's a TEAM game. McNabb is not Peyton Manning, but he's not Trent Edwards either. Some of you apparently can't tell the difference. There are only 4-5 teams in the NFL who have QB's that you can't really criticize. (Colts, Patriots, New Orleans, the rest are debatable)

But, you should give credit where it's due. McNabb is better than most of the QB's in the league. His leadership and intangibles should not be discounted. We are 4-3 against very tough opponents, and just like he shares blame for losses, he should share credit for success.

See, and you didn't even need to use Crayons. Now go back to making up straw man arguments to tear down. I'll be over here talking to the grownups.

The Hogster wrote:
If the game were played on paper, then you might be right. But, if you watched the games, you would have seen that in the Green Bay game, McNabb played terribly for the first 3 Quarters, but in the 4th Quarter and Overtime, he went 12 for 12 passing for 188 Yards and 1 TD. The team won in OT.

In the Bears game, we were only leading by 1 score. McNabb completed two crucial 3rd Down conversions allowing us to run the clock out.

In the Eagles game, he had a stellar 1st Quarter allowing us to jump out to a lead large enough to allow the defense to secure a win for us. He also converted a crucial 3rd down with his legs late in the 4th quarter.


His stats are not great, but we are a work in progress.

Will McNabb's long-term deal get done?
Though the Redskins have more than half their 2010 season remaining, there is perhaps no bigger issue as they head into 2011 than the future of quarterback Donovan McNabb. Given McNabb's uneven play through seven weeks of the season - he is the 24th-rated passer in the NFL, behind Jacksonville's David Garrard, Chicago's Jay Cutler, Tampa Bay's Josh Freeman and Detroit's Shaun Hill - there is some question about whether the Redskins are even pursuing a long-term deal with the 12-year veteran.

Last week, ESPN's Adam Schefter Tweeted a report that contract talks with McNabb were "on track," but that no developments were expected until after the season. McNabb was asked about that on Wednesday, and he chose to joke about it.

"Who said that?" McNabb said. "Things are on track. There could be something in the next hour."

He then broke into a smile before addressing his status more seriously.

"Things will happen," McNabb said. "Whatever sources said that - at the end of the year - I heard that Peyton [Manning] and the Colts wanted to wait till the end of the year, so I guess I was pulled into that whole thing as well. I don't know what they're talking about. But [I'm] just focusing on what we do here to improve our record and get better."

McNabb was then asked whether he would prefer to do something during the season or after it.

"If it was my choice?" he said. "I would have had it [ellipsis] No, just kidding.

"I don't know. That's really nothing that I am concerned with at this particular point. That's something that my agent and Bruce [Allen, the Redskins general manager] and Dan [Snyder, the owner] and those guys have been talking about back and forth. I'm just focusing on what we have to do here."

One factor in any potential deal with McNabb is the Redskins' considerations about how age could be affecting his play. He turns 34 next month, and his offseason - which followed an Easter Sunday trade from Philadelphia - involved many more sessions of organized team activities and mini-camps than he has ever endured before.

"It has been a long offseason," McNabb said. "It's been a long year, one that obviously I didn't have to go through for 11 years, as long as it's been. But yet still, you have to be prepared for any and everything. Our bye week is next week. I think it'll definitely help a lot of us out to recover."

McNabb was asked how he would have handled his physical preparation differently had he not been traded and subjected to the extra team functions that the NFL allows when a new head coach takes over, as Mike Shanahan did in Washington.

"I would've been training, and maybe not putting your body through as much as we did in the offseason," McNabb said. "It's just something that was a routine for me, and every now and then you got to change up your routine and challenge yourself as well as challenge your body. But this is what the cards have dealt me. I look forward to the challenge, and I'm excited about where I'm at."

McNabb's current quarterback rating of 76.0 would be, if it held up, the lowest since his rookie season of 1999, when he started just six games and completed only 49.1 percent of his passes. He has thrown seven interceptions and six touchdown passes thus far. In his career, he has never posted more interceptions than touchdowns.

McNabb was adamant Wednesday, though, that his age had nothing to do with his struggles. More important, he said, was his still-growing comfort level in Shanahan's system, the first new system he has dealt with in his career.

"Age is just something that people can talk about," McNabb said. "So that's really nothing."

Shabutie wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Shabutie wrote:

The Hogster wrote:McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

The Hogster wrote:

Shabutie wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Shabutie wrote:

The Hogster wrote:McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

Apparently this idea of confidence in your QB leading to increased effort and productivity on the field is not as rare as was argued. I can only imagine what Fitz and Jaworski would say if McNabb was the Cardinals QB.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... nto-focus/

SkinsJock wrote:I'm glad McNabb's here although I was never a fan of his before

I completely agree that his play has not been good and that he might not have a lot left, but - he's here & his presence has helped

I think that some are just ticked off that we had to give up draft picks for him when we couldn't afford to and had so many areas of need that we could have used the picks on - I think that if you asked Mike & Bruce about the trade after what they've seen so far and what it looks like they think they'll get from him in the coming months and perhaps another year or 2 - they would both say unequivocally that they would do it again - no question

I was not a McNab fan but I'm sure glad that he's our QB right now - I feel like we got a helluva deal - and I think your wrong if you don;t agree that Mike & Bruce also think that


I do think that we are going to need to find a QB that is capable of both backing up McNabb and taking over here - AND much sooner than later

... but, you're going to hate this, all you doubters, I HAVE FAITH IN THESE GUYS