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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:41 am
by KazooSkinsFan
El Mexican wrote:If you want change, you must first admit that things are not going well. Llosing to the Lions "richly" illustrates my point.
Wanting props for having been negative while ignoring that those of us who chose to be positive were making a choice to be so and blaming it on our blindness rather then recognizing it was a choice we made is completely worthy of being mocked. As is saying that somehow we're going to fix anything with the Redskins by "admitting" anything.
It's sports, the Skins are my team, I'm going to be positive and support them no matter what they do or any faux fan says that means. Mock me away for that, I started another thread in Smack on this topic you're free to do that. Bash me away!
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 am
by Redskin in Canada
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:1. The ones who hoped for the best and have had their hopes dashed
2. The ones who expected things going mediocre and are in pain for seeing the problem well in advance
3. Those who wish to take it on one another and/or players and coaches for the frustration.
I think you're missing the largest group. Those of us who chose to just be supportive and ignore the plethora of concerns as well as the trend that every year our FA crop is supposed to be a cure all and that they haven't been and root for the team because it's SPORTS. Winning a SB isn't going to cure world hunger or end global terrorism. We care, sure. We're disappointed, sure. Shocked? Not. Devastated? Not. The "I told you so's" never told us anything we didn't know.
They just chose to be negative, we chose to be positive. And that they are all here SAYING I told you so shows what they want most. And BTW, I give you props that while I may note a tendency to be a little negative at times, you're not being that way now.
Look Kaz.
Different people react in different ways in different circumstances. None of the "pessimists" are bad fans because they did not agree with an optmistic prognoisticationa.
None of the "optimists" are bad fans because they did not agree with a pessimistic prognostication.
If the argument is "optimism" is better for the sake of it -regardless- of the objective reasons why some choose not to become so, it fails to pass the test of TRUTH.
Then the whole thing becomes hyperbolae. I do not question SUPPORT for the Team at all times. But realistic expectations are not only desirable but necessary.
One could make the argument that unrealistic optmisim and blind support are the keys to being a good fan. I disagree. A good fan stands by its team in good and bad times. But that does not mean condoning what seems to have become endemic failures at various levels.
It is like parenthood. Each pair of parents define their own style of education and whatever they choose must be respected. I respect you fanhood as much as I respect CLL's fanhood. This bickering is unnecessary and counterproductive amongst us fans.
We need to stand together in support for the team at all times whether we think we see a silver lining or more or the same bad results.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 am
by DEHog
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:a lot of you are delusional and rag on guys who see the writing on the wall. So, eat that crow
What's funniest about the bashers is this exact bizarre belief they they see things the Skins fans don't. Sure, Chris, none of us had any clue that our moves this off-season might not work out. It was your keen insight and intellectual discipline which allowed you to recognize that may not be the case. None of us had a clue our O might be an issue, that our latest big dollar free agents may not fix all our problems, that Zorn's playcalling which was in question last year may not be miraculously resolved in the off season. I mean sure, we have a plan EVERY year and haven't had an actual great year since Gibbs 1.0, but we were oblivious to the possibility that this year would not result in a Super Bowl victory and our staking the pro-bowl.
You want crow, fine. Congratulations on your great I told you so victory yesterday giving you the change to crow today. What kind of fan was I for hoping for the best. You are an intellectual God. I am humbled. Wow, I never saw even the remotest possibility we would not be 3-0 at this point and looking at clinching the division.
Are you happy now?
And Chris isn't it a bit early for that speech??
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:46 am
by Chris Luva Luva
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Are you happy now?
LMAO! Dude, I don't really care.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:49 am
by PulpExposure
The stats are laughable here. Campbell throws for the most silent 340 yards I've ever seen. Portis rushes 12 times for 40 some odd yards, which may make someone who didn't watch the game say "Why didn't you run Portis more?" Problem is, Portis was actually negative in yards at half-time...by the time he got positive yards, the Lions were running a virtual prevent defense.
What bothers me the most about this game isn't that the offense and Jason Campbell (stats notwithstanding) was inept again. I expect nothing more from them.
It's that the defense clearly quit in the first half. They gave up 276 yards of offense to the LIONS in the first half, and could not stop the Lions on 3rd downs, frequently giving up 3rd and longs. That's freaking ridiculous.
When the offense stinks (as it has for as long as I can recall), AND your defense gives up...well, this season is going to be a rough and bumpy ride, folks.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:01 am
by Redskin in Canada
PulpExposure wrote:When the offense stinks (as it has for as long as I can recall), AND your defense gives up...well, this season is going to be a rough and bumpy ride, folks.
For once, allow me to become the optimist.
1. The offense will get better.
2. the defense did not give up. They played poorly but they never gave up.
No bumpy ride. Justa mediocre ride: 8 - 8 plus minus one game. We started together with this Hognostication and we are on a good path for it, if Zorn does not ose the locker room.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:01 am
by KazooSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Are you happy now?
LMAO! Dude, I don't really care.
You don't care, what a witty retort. I am devastated.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:03 am
by skinsfan#33
PulpExposure wrote:The stats are laughable here. Campbell throws for the most silent 340 yards I've ever seen. Portis rushes 12 times for 40 some odd yards, which may make someone who didn't watch the game say "Why didn't you run Portis more?" Problem is, Portis was actually negative in yards at half-time...by the time he got positive yards, the Lions were running a virtual prevent defense.
What bothers me the most about this game isn't that the offense and Jason Campbell (stats notwithstanding) was inept again. I expect nothing more from them.
It's that the defense clearly quit in the first half. They gave up 276 yards of offense to the LIONS in the first half, and could not stop the Lions on 3rd downs, frequently giving up 3rd and longs. That's freaking ridiculous.
When the offense stinks (as it has for as long as I can recall), AND your defense gives up...well, this season is going to be a rough and bumpy ride, folks.
Well said.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:05 am
by KazooSkinsFan
Redskin in Canada wrote:Different people react in different ways in different circumstances. None of the "pessimists" are bad fans because they did not agree with an optmistic prognoisticationa.
If you change "none" to "some" then I'm with you. There are to your point for sure some like you and DEHog who were more pessimistic in the off-season but I agree with what you say here. There are others who really are more focused on being right then winning.
But primarily I was pointing out you missed the majority of fans who recognize the whole reality that it's sports and we can chose to hope for the best without being blind to the issues or devastated by things not working out.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:08 am
by Cappster
PulpExposure wrote:The stats are laughable here. Campbell throws for the most silent 340 yards I've ever seen. Portis rushes 12 times for 40 some odd yards, which may make someone who didn't watch the game say "Why didn't you run Portis more?" Problem is, Portis was actually negative in yards at half-time...by the time he got positive yards, the Lions were running a virtual prevent defense.
What bothers me the most about this game isn't that the offense and Jason Campbell (stats notwithstanding) was inept again. I expect nothing more from them.
It's that the defense clearly quit in the first half. They gave up 276 yards of offense to the LIONS in the first half, and could not stop the Lions on 3rd downs, frequently giving up 3rd and longs. That's freaking ridiculous.
When the offense stinks (as it has for as long as I can recall), AND your defense gives up...well, this season is going to be a rough and bumpy ride, folks.
I've been complaining since week 1 that the D gives up way too many third down conversions. The strength of our defense last year was the secondary and now it seems like they are just another part of the problem.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:09 am
by DEHog
If you change "none" to "some" then I'm with you. There are to your point for sure some like you and DEHog who were more pessimistic in the off-season but I agree with what you say here. There are others who really are more focused on being right then winning.
Very true...and I draw the line there...I'm not at all concerned about being right...my beef was just having my opionion..good/bad/indifferent heard without being labeled.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:55 am
by KazooSkinsFan
DEHog wrote:If you change "none" to "some" then I'm with you. There are to your point for sure some like you and DEHog who were more pessimistic in the off-season but I agree with what you say here. There are others who really are more focused on being right then winning.
Very true...and I draw the line there...I'm not at all concerned about being right...my beef was just having my opionion..good/bad/indifferent heard without being labeled.
I'm not referring to you here obviously, but the ones who after a terrible loss like yesterday have the first thought to come and say how they were right all along. I don't think the issue is they are being "labeled." They are also morons for while they want credit for focusing on the negatives they describe our view as having been blind when obviously we saw the weaknesses and knew the track record of FA's not miraculously solving all our problems. They want recognition without giving any.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:10 pm
by DEHog
Late Sunday afternoon, as the Washington Redskins hurried to dress in the visitors' locker room at Ford Field after an embarrassing 19-14 loss to the Detroit Lions that ended the Lions' losing streak at 19 games, I approached Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, before he boarded the team bus to the airport.
As soon as we made eye contact, Cerrato said, "No comment." It was the first time in 20 years as a journalist someone declined to answer a question before I even had the opportunity to ask one
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:38 pm
by CanesSkins26
Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:40 pm
by DEHog
CanesSkins26 wrote:Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.
Yea that kills me...in contrast did you see Tomlin yesterday??
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:55 pm
by CanesSkins26
DEHog wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.
Yea that kills me...in contrast did you see Tomlin yesterday??
I did. That's how I expect a head coach to act after a team loses a bad game. Zorn's comments, on the other hand, were a joke. Where is the fire and emotion from Zorn? He looks like he's sleepwalking through the season.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:56 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
CanesSkins26 wrote:DEHog wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.
Yea that kills me...in contrast did you see Tomlin yesterday??
I did. That's what I expect a head coach to say after a team loses a bad game. Zorn's comments, on the other hand, were a joke. Where is the fire and emotion from Zorn? He looks like he's sleepwalking through the season.
Zorn is not a HC. Hell he's not even a OC. He's a QB coach...
Would you promote the guy the cooks the fries at Mc Donalds to general manager and expect success?
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:59 pm
by DEHog
Chris Luva Luva wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:DEHog wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:Is anybody else listening to the Zorn presser?? The way he is talking it sounds as if we actually won the game. What a joke.
Yea that kills me...in contrast did you see Tomlin yesterday??
I did. That's what I expect a head coach to say after a team loses a bad game. Zorn's comments, on the other hand, were a joke. Where is the fire and emotion from Zorn? He looks like he's sleepwalking through the season.
Zorn is not a HC. Hell he's not even a OC. He's a QB coach...
Would you promote the guy the cooks the fries at Mc Donalds to general manager and expect success?
He looked shell shocked on the sidelines yesterday...as if to say this can't be happening...I don't know why (maybe because I put most of this on the FO) I feel sorry for him.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:06 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn is not a HC. Hell he's not even a OC. He's a QB coach...
Would you promote the guy the cooks the fries at Mc Donalds to general manager and expect success?
I'm not sure I agree that's an apt analogy, but the best leaders are commonly those who make jumps rather then working step by step up the chain and a lot of the most blazing flame-outs are those who worked step by step up the chain waiting for their "turn" until they got it. The problem being that to work their way up the chain they were good followers, not leaders. Look for example at HW Bush who, like him or not, was effective as VP implementing Reagan's agenda and yet was a horrible president.
I'm not saying that makes Zorn a good choice, just that I don't think the jump is in itself bad. I'm not sure Zorn can't be a good HC either, he's only in his second year here. I don't see this one working out, but I could see him learning from his mistakes and getting another shot and doing better. Another advantage in that is that now that he's been an HC he has a much better idea what to work on.
One thing I do like is when you have an OC who works for a D HC or vice versa because a lot of times they really are leaders even though they are #2, they are running a state within a state. Though that doesn't always work either, like with Pettibone. It really just comes down to finding the right people at the right time.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:43 pm
by RedskinsFreak
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn is not a HC. Hell he's not even a OC. He's a QB coach...
Would you promote the guy the cooks the fries at Mc Donalds to general manager and expect success?
I'm not sure I agree that's an apt analogy, but the best leaders are commonly those who make jumps rather then working step by step up the chain and a lot of the most blazing flame-outs are those who worked step by step up the chain waiting for their "turn" until they got it.
What's funny is that I almost used that same analogy in response to those who think Vinny is a high-quality football man because of the bling he sports from Notre Dame and the 49ers.
He "cooked the fries" in those organizations.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 pm
by thedcnative
I don't know why I keep getting mad. The Lions were due for a win...why not against a team that has a non-existent third down defense and an offense that melts like butter in the red zone. Furthermore, I've never really known a constantly successful Redskins team. I don't know why I'm angry...but I am. I'm LIVID.
Our darkest day
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:29 pm
by aywale21
So it happened, we lost to the Lions, we're 1-2, our offense cant seem to get it going in the redzone, our defense can't stop matt stafford and we seem to be the laughing joke of the league.
With that being said, if we as fans can take any optimistic approach after this, its the fact that this team has had a history of showing some resilience during its darkest days. Afterall, we won 5 in a row to clinch a playoff berth after going 5-6 in 2005. In 2007, we won 4 games in a row to take us to the playoffs after the passing of Sean Taylor. Now im not comparing losing to the Lions as anything as extreme as losing Sean Taylor (rip), but who knows, maybe we can finally just have that no fear mentality, let campbell air it out, throw 4 wr sets our there on first down, get creative with playcalling, bring more pressure on defense. Afterall, it can't get worse can it? Our next 3 games are vs TB, @ Car, and vs KC. Does anyone believe we can use this loss as motivation, win 3 straight, and get back in the mix? I believe
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:16 pm
by crazyhorse1
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:a lot of you are delusional and rag on guys who see the writing on the wall. So, eat that crow
What's funniest about the bashers is this exact bizarre belief they they see things the Skins fans don't. Sure, Chris, none of us had any clue that our moves this off-season might not work out. It was your keen insight and intellectual discipline which allowed you to recognize that may not be the case. None of us had a clue our O might be an issue, that our latest big dollar free agents may not fix all our problems, that Zorn's playcalling which was in question last year may not be miraculously resolved in the off season. I mean sure, we have a plan EVERY year and haven't had an actual great year since Gibbs 1.0, but we were oblivious to the possibility that this year would not result in a Super Bowl victory and our staking the pro-bowl.
You want crow, fine. Congratulations on your great I told you so victory yesterday giving you the change to crow today. What kind of fan was I for hoping for the best. You are an intellectual God. I am humbled. Wow, I never saw even the remotest possibility we would not be 3-0 at this point and looking at clinching the division.
Are you happy now?
\
Hey wild guy. I tried to tell you our D was overrated last year and I was the scourge of the site for two weeks-- almost everyone trashed me and called me names. In fact, some of you guys started trashing everything I wrote about the D before reading it.
Also, I have repeatedly told everyone in post after post that our OL was trash and we would not have a running game, could not have a running game, and that we had had had had to play ball control with the pass and that Collins was the best man to do it because he had a quick release. I also predicted a bum year for Portis and have been smashing Zorn as a red zone play caller virtually every time out.
I would like you to also recall I haven't been negative. I have for a long time regarded our defense as what it really is-- medicre, or a shade better, and have always insisted the team had the personnel to apply ball control by the pass and score in the redzone if it went to the pass.
I see no reason to change the above position now, since reality bears me out so well.
What I'd like to know from you is whether or not you regard me now as a true football intellectual. I deserve it, and, therefore, desire it, and hereby say this to all who have attacked me in the past and trashed my opinions: I am Crazy Horse and obviously smarter than most people not in touch with the Great Spirit, Wankatanka----so eat crow, Long Knives.
Pony Soldiers. Yellow Hairs.
You'll see a resurgence of our Skins much sooner than you think. Maybe in my next post I'll inform you as to why.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:17 pm
by crazyhorse1
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:a lot of you are delusional and rag on guys who see the writing on the wall. So, eat that crow
What's funniest about the bashers is this exact bizarre belief they they see things the Skins fans don't. Sure, Chris, none of us had any clue that our moves this off-season might not work out. It was your keen insight and intellectual discipline which allowed you to recognize that may not be the case. None of us had a clue our O might be an issue, that our latest big dollar free agents may not fix all our problems, that Zorn's playcalling which was in question last year may not be miraculously resolved in the off season. I mean sure, we have a plan EVERY year and haven't had an actual great year since Gibbs 1.0, but we were oblivious to the possibility that this year would not result in a Super Bowl victory and our staking the pro-bowl.
You want crow, fine. Congratulations on your great I told you so victory yesterday giving you the change to crow today. What kind of fan was I for hoping for the best. You are an intellectual God. I am humbled. Wow, I never saw even the remotest possibility we would not be 3-0 at this point and looking at clinching the division.
Are you happy now?
\
Hey wild guy. I tried to tell you our D was overrated last year and I was the scourge of the site for two weeks-- almost everyone trashed me and called me names. In fact, some of you guys started trashing everything I wrote about the D before reading it.
Also, I have repeatedly told everyone in post after post that our OL was trash and we would not have a running game, could not have a running game, and that we had had had had to play ball control with the pass and that Collins was the best man to do it because he had a quick release. I also predicted a bum year for Portis and have been smashing Zorn as a red zone play caller virtually every time out.
I would like you to also recall I haven't been negative. I have for a long time regarded our defense as what it really is-- medicre, or a shade better, and have always insisted the team had the personnel to apply ball control by the pass and score in the redzone if it went to the pass.
I see no reason to change the above position now, since reality bears me out so well.
What I'd like to know from you is whether or not you regard me now as a true football intellectual. I deserve it, and, therefore, desire it, and hereby say this to all who have attacked me in the past and trashed my opinions: I am Crazy Horse and obviously smarter than most people not in touch with the Great Spirit, Wankatanka----so eat crow, Long Knives.
Pony Soldiers. Yellow Hairs.
You'll see a resurgence of our Skins much sooner than you think. Maybe in my next post I'll inform you as to why.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:56 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
crazyhorse1 wrote:Hey wild guy. I tried to tell you our D was overrated last year and I was the scourge of the site for two weeks-- almost everyone trashed me and called me names. In fact, some of you guys started trashing everything I wrote about the D before reading it....
I realize I've taken a lead on defending us brainless pom pom cheerleaders and therefore any question to me is fair game since I chose that role, but this question is kind of specific for me to answer because personally criticized views that were sweepingly negative and pointless. I've gladly traded points with those who actually commented on what they think and why. And while I've thought our D is better then mediocre, I don't think I've said we don't have any weaknesses because we always did and still do. Last year our D for sure had trouble closing the win. I thought and still think our O woes contributed to that, but it wasn't just that.
crazyhorse1 wrote:What I'd like to know from you is whether or not you regard me now as a true football intellectual
I'd consider you an intellectual in every way, crazyhorse!
crazyhorse1 wrote:You'll see a resurgence of our Skins much sooner than you think. Maybe in my next post I'll inform you as to why.
Do tell...