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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:53 pm
by SkinsJock
I wish some smart-ass laweyer would run a class action lawsuit against this guy for screwing the fans by mis-managing the team AND making a huge profit :lol:

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:33 am
by CanesSkins26
What, for you, constitutes a "miserable failure," especially as compared to a "failure" and "mediocre" performance? Since Snyder has been an owner, the team has gone 76-84, or a .48 win percentage.

Is that a success? No. But it's also one solid season away from an overall winning record.

A "miserable failure?" I guess that makes every owner with a .40 win percentage (or lower), what. . . .nonexistent?


Yes, I would consider any owner that has owned a team for a period of ten years and failed to achieve an overall winning record a total failure. Since Snyder bought the team we have won the division once and have the worst record of any team in our division since that time. We haven't even posted consecutive winning seasons since Snyder purchased the team. To me that constitutes a miserable failure.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:03 pm
by Redskin in Canada
PulpExposure wrote:That begs the question; did everyone consider John Kent Cooke as a miserable failure also...because after he took over for dad, his winning percentage was even lower.

Also, I have to say, requiring people call him Mr. Snyder really is the hallmark of a total douchebag.

That BEGS the answer: YES !!!

John Kent Cooke was the failure his father always thought he would be !!!

The failure of Snyder is NOT a miserable failure. According to the Merriam dictionary (too lazy to look it up in the Oxford Dictionary)

Main Entry: mis·er·a·ble

Pronunciation:\ˈmi-zər-bəl, ˈmiz-rə-, ˈmi-zə-rə-\

Function:adjective

Etymology:Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin miserabilis wretched, pitiable, from miserari to pity, from miser

Date:15th century

1: being in a pitiable state of distress or unhappiness (as from want or shame) <miserable refugees>

2 a: wretchedly inadequate or meager <a miserable hovel> b: causing extreme discomfort or unhappiness <a miserable situation>

3: being likely to discredit or shame <his miserable neglect of his wife>

As such, I do not feel that such extreme adjective is appropriate. In fact, I feel it is counterproductive and easily defeated in a debate.

Let us define more narrowly what must be meant by failure:

When I use failure in my signature, I mean, for example:

1) failure to succeed as an owner
2) failure to field the best team possible,
3) failure to avoid mediocrity,
4) failure to recognise HIS limitations,
5) failure to provide inspiring leadership,
6) failure to recognise the flaws of his ego,
7) failure to select the best possible people to do the most important job at the top.
8) failure to recognise that he has never been one or two players away from a Superbowl,
9) failure to recognise that good economic business is not good sports business necessarily
10 failure to persuade the fans to believe in his actions and decisions.

Those are a few failures. But they are not miserable failures. Snyder can be acused of running a team with mediocrity and incmpetence from a sports perspective.

He ceratinly can not be acused of, for example,

a) lacking business sense to profit IMMENSELY from a well established sports franchise regardless of the final results every season
b) lacking the marketing sense to reinvent this franchise over and over every offseason to renew the interest of the fans
c) attract enough attention in the media and the faithful through splahsy player acquisitions
d) lacking 'love' of the franchise in the way HE understands it through expensive acquisitions without a severe negative impact on the salarycap.

He is a mediocre owner with mediocre vision with mediocre leadership with a mediocre team obtaining mediocre results. The adjective MISERABLE is inappropriate notwithstanding how some of us feel at the end of many seasons.

He wants to win. He just does not know how.

Perspective Canes. Perspective. :wink:

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:05 pm
by SnyderSucks
Redskin in Canada wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:That begs the question; did everyone consider John Kent Cooke as a miserable failure also...because after he took over for dad, his winning percentage was even lower.

Also, I have to say, requiring people call him Mr. Snyder really is the hallmark of a total douchebag.

That BEGS the answer: YES !!!

John Kent Cooke was the failure his father always thought he would be !!!

The failure of Snyder is NOT a miserable failure. According to the Merriam dictionary (too lazy to look it up in the Oxford Dictionary)

Main Entry: mis·er·a·ble

Pronunciation:\ˈmi-zər-bəl, ˈmiz-rə-, ˈmi-zə-rə-\

Function:adjective

Etymology:Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin miserabilis wretched, pitiable, from miserari to pity, from miser

Date:15th century

1: being in a pitiable state of distress or unhappiness (as from want or shame) <miserable refugees>

2 a: wretchedly inadequate or meager <a miserable hovel> b: causing extreme discomfort or unhappiness <a miserable situation>

3: being likely to discredit or shame <his miserable neglect of his wife>

As such, I do not feel that such extreme adjective is appropriate. In fact, I feel it is counterproductive and easily defeated in a debate.

Let us define more narrowly what must be meant by failure:

When I use failure in my signature, I mean, for example:

1) failure to succeed as an owner
2) failure to field the best team possible,
3) failure to avoid mediocrity,
4) failure to recognise HIS limitations,
5) failure to provide inspiring leadership,
6) failure to recognise the flaws of his ego,
7) failure to select the best possible person to do the most important people at the top.
8) failure to recognise that he has never been one or two players away from a Superbowl,
9) failure to recognise that good economic business is not good sports business necessarily
10 failure to persuade the fans to believe in his actions and decisions.

Those are a few failures. But they are not miserable failures. Snyder can be acused of running a team with mediocrity and incmpetence from a sports perspective.

He ceratinly can not be acused of, for example,

a) lacking business sense to profit IMMENSELY from a well established sports franchise regardless of the final results every season
b) lacking the marketing sense to reinvent this franchise over and over every offseason to renew the interest of the fans
c) attract enough attention in the media and the faithful through splahsy player acquisitions
d) lacking 'love' of the franchise in the way HE understands it through expensive acquisitions without a severe negative impact on the salarycap.

He is a mediocre owner with mediocre vision with mediocre leadership with a mediocre team obtaining mediocre results. The adjective MISERABLE is inappropriate notwithstanding how some of us feel at the end of many seasons.

He wants to win. He just does not know how.

Perspective Canes. Perspective. :wink:


By the definition provided, I think you proved that he is a "miserable" failure. He certainly has caused me "extreme discomfort or unhappiness'.

By the way, to the people pointing out the record under Snyder, please do not include the division championship. That occurred in his first season of ownership, when he arrived to late to make any changes or affect the roster. That season goes to John Kent Cooke and makes him a better owner by virtue of achieving something in fewer years that Snyder has not. Since Snyder has truly had control of the team, there have been two playoff appearances, and the team has routinely been on of the "should win" teams when other teams look at their schedule for the year. Since Snyder has been the owner has there been a single season in which the team overachieved? How about underachieving? Almost every year.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:10 pm
by Redskin in Canada
SnyderSucks wrote:By the definition provided, I think you proved that he is a "miserable" failure. He certainly has caused me "extreme discomfort or unhappiness'.
His results are not miserable. The Bungles for many years, The Lions for quite some time, The early Tampa Bay Bucaneers, That Team in Texas (TTiT) during their early years achieved miserable results. The Redskins do not obtain that kind of miserable results.

I would be less reluctant to argue that many FANS feel mierable after many seasons of mediocrity (not miserable results) but that is another story. :wink:

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:34 pm
by Deadskins
Redskin in Canada wrote:failure to recognise that he has never been one or two players away from a Superbowl

He was arguably a long snapper away from the SB in his first season. We would have been in the NFC Championship game if Turk doesn't short hop the ball to Brad Johnson. :twisted:

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:31 pm
by PulpExposure
Redskin in Canada wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:By the definition provided, I think you proved that he is a "miserable" failure. He certainly has caused me "extreme discomfort or unhappiness'.
His results are not miserable. The Bungles for many years, The Lions for quite some time, The early Tampa Bay Bucaneers, That Team in Texas (TTiT) during their early years achieved miserable results. The Redskins do not obtain that kind of miserable results.


The Redskins from 1993-1999 were pretty damn miserable. Lol.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:57 pm
by yupchagee
I've been a Skins fan since the '50's. You folks don't know what "miserable failure" really is.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:01 pm
by Redskin in Canada
Deadskins wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:failure to recognise that he has never been one or two players away from a Superbowl

He was arguably a long snapper away from the SB in his first season. We would have been in the NFC Championship game if Turk doesn't short hop the ball to Brad Johnson. :twisted:

As it has been pointed out above by another poster, the outcome of that season is the result of the work done by the previous owner more than the Danny.

yupchagee wrote:I've been a Skins fan since the '50's. You folks don't know what "miserable failure" really is.

You are right. And that is why Welch is beginning to draw comparisons between Preston Marshall and Dan Snyder. Different styles. Similar results.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:14 pm
by Deadskins
Redskin in Canada wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:failure to recognise that he has never been one or two players away from a Superbowl

He was arguably a long snapper away from the SB in his first season. We would have been in the NFC Championship game if Turk doesn't short hop the ball to Brad Johnson. :twisted:

As it has been pointed out above by another poster, the outcome of that season is the result of the work done by the previous owner more than the Danny.

That doesn't change the fact that he was a single player away. That just means he imherited the team that way. :P

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:52 pm
by El Mexican
The final product is always on the field.

Right now it's not a pretty one. Possibly a competent one, but hardly established.

Winning cures all, it's true. But this dude will have to win A LOT to mend al the damage he's done to the fanbase. Really, you have look under a microscope to find someone who can openly tell you "yeah, I love how Snyder runs the team, you know, always have".

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:52 pm
by VetSkinsFan
<sigh> some of us don't care about the politics. I can tell you I don't give a damn about Dan Snyder's past running of the team b/c this is a new year. As I said before, I'm not an owner's fan, I'm a sports team's fan.

Why get all bent out of shape over something you cannot control? All this boycott nonsense is just that...soapbox drama. You're NOT going to boycott games. I'm sure there are a few people here who want to stick it to the man and not give their measely few dollars that actually make it to Danny's pockets, but the vast majority who are here crying like spoiled brats will be in front of their (or a friend/local sports bar) TV for 16-20 or more weeks starting very shortly. And the majority will still be buying jerseys, hats, and other memorabelia. Hell, I just ordered my Redskins plates for my truck!

You're not going to avoid the games and Redskins related media. The stands will still be full, regardless if they're e-bayed to whoever wil pay the price, breaking some BS unwritten rule to lose money in this crappy economy rather than sell to opposing fans.

I suspect Danny will be the majority stakeholder in the Redskins for a long time. He's getting better whether it's admitted or not; the facts have been laid out. Get used to it.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:31 pm
by SkinsJock
as the wonderful Walter Cronkite used to say "and that's the way it is" - there are some like VetSkinsFan that just want to look ahead and the past be damned! Then there are some like me that only want to point out that while I will be praying and hoping for the best, I just know that our future is almost guaranteed to be disapointing under this ownership and team management :roll:

I understand that we can do nothing that will affect the outcome and I used to be blind about the reality of what was going on here but I am not happy about the way this team is both managed and the fact that our owner is a huge part of the reason we are not doing well

I just want to point out that it is a lot easier to accept the fact that we are owned by a guy that almost guarantees a mediocre season each year just because he and his lackey, Cerrato, have little to no idea of what it takes - we have incredibly talented players and coaches but unfortunately we have an owner and his cohort who can best be described as clowns - the fact that we might make the playoffs in spite of that is just amazing, but it will not make Snyder or Cerrato and better IMHO - that will only happen in spite of the "anchor" that is our excuse for a FO :twisted:

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:52 am
by PulpExposure
SkinsJock wrote:I just want to point out that it is a lot easier to accept the fact that we are owned by a guy that almost guarantees a mediocre season each year just because he and his lackey, Cerrato, have little to no idea of what it takes - we have incredibly talented players and coaches but unfortunately we have an owner and his cohort who can best be described as clowns


Wait...remind me again, who is responsible for acquiring those incredibly talented players and coaches?

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:27 am
by Bob 0119
PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I just want to point out that it is a lot easier to accept the fact that we are owned by a guy that almost guarantees a mediocre season each year just because he and his lackey, Cerrato, have little to no idea of what it takes - we have incredibly talented players and coaches but unfortunately we have an owner and his cohort who can best be described as clowns


Wait...remind me again, who is responsible for acquiring those incredibly talented players and coaches?


ROTFALMAO

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:29 pm
by VetSkinsFan
PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I just want to point out that it is a lot easier to accept the fact that we are owned by a guy that almost guarantees a mediocre season each year just because he and his lackey, Cerrato, have little to no idea of what it takes - we have incredibly talented players and coaches but unfortunately we have an owner and his cohort who can best be described as clowns


Wait...remind me again, who is responsible for acquiring those incredibly talented players and coaches?


:rock:


SkinsJock,

I do want to make a point to say that it is frustrating to see such talent sputter out, but I'll wait for that to happen during the season. I am not going to bring the suffering upon myself in anticipation; I try to have a positive outlook until there's proof otherwise.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:19 pm
by SkinsJock
as I've said numerous times - I always think the best is going to happen each year about this time - I'm just reminding everyone that we have been here before and the only constant with all the promise from having great players and coaches is this owner whose record as an owner leaves a lot to be desired :lol:

I'm hopeful this year things will be different but let's face it we have a lot of issues on the offensive side of the ball and if we get into the playoffs it will be because other teams have not played well not because we are suddenly back to the Redskins team of old - we are at least a season away from that if these 2 bozos do not fire everybody again just because we did not make the playoffs or whatever like they do each time they think we can do better - give me a break :wink:

we did win the off-season "contest" again this year though

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:25 pm
by SkinsJock
VetSkinsFan wrote:SkinsJock,

I do want to make a point to say that it is frustrating to see such talent sputter out, but I'll wait for that to happen during the season. I am not going to bring the suffering upon myself in anticipation; I try to have a positive outlook until there's proof otherwise.


it must be wonderful to have selective memory and just face each new year with the anticipation that everything will be just fine - I will be very hopeful that we can be better than we are also but I just know that even if we make strides in the right direction, we are so badly managed that these 2 bozos will likely blow it again :lol:



there's no point complaining about our FO because we don't have one :wink: maybe that's why we are not able to get things together here

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:19 pm
by SkinsJock
Bob 0119 wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I just want to point out that it is a lot easier to accept the fact that we are owned by a guy that almost guarantees a mediocre season each year just because he and his lackey, Cerrato, have little to no idea of what it takes - we have incredibly talented players and coaches but unfortunately we have an owner and his cohort who can best be described as clowns
Wait...remind me again, who is responsible for acquiring those incredibly talented players and coaches?


I will say that while these 2 bozos have brought in some good and some great players and coaches the results are where the measurement lies.

the fact remains that as you agreed to by pointing out that we do have some good players and coaches, then, why are the results not there? I submit that we could be in a better situation right now if for the last 5 or 6 years these guys had not just brought in Gibbs who tried to help but they had also added some guys to manage the team we might be in better shape - that is all this is about! not that we haven't got the players and coaches to do the job but that with all this time we are just a mediocre team and the only constant is these 2 bozos.

we are all hoping for things to be good for this team when in all honesty these 2 bozos are the reason we are not in better shape after all this :roll:

I am just as excited about this team as anyone but I just think that the only way to ensure that we are as competitive as we can be is to bring in guys that know what they are doing :wink:

we used to be a tough match each week and now we hope we get lucky

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
by SkinsFreak
SkinsJock wrote:let's face it we have a lot of issues on the offensive side of the ball and if we get into the playoffs it will be because other teams have not played well not because we are suddenly back to the Redskins team of old


Really? If the team has success on the field this year and makes the playoffs, it will be because all of our opponents chocked? -- and not because our "incredibly talented players and coaches" went out and earned it on the field?

:roll: Gee... I'm quite sure the players and coaches reeeeally appreciate that kind of fan support. Those guys go out there and work their tails off week in and week out, and have absolutely nothing to do with prior mistakes made my the ownership years ago. It's one thing to be frustrated over past mistakes made by an inexperienced owner. It's quite another to hack on the hard working players and coaches that have nothing to do with decisions made by management. If they do make the playoffs, it WILL be because they've earned it.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:11 pm
by VetSkinsFan
SkinsJock wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:SkinsJock,

I do want to make a point to say that it is frustrating to see such talent sputter out, but I'll wait for that to happen during the season. I am not going to bring the suffering upon myself in anticipation; I try to have a positive outlook until there's proof otherwise.


it must be wonderful to have selective memory and just face each new year with the anticipation that everything will be just fine - I will be very hopeful that we can be better than we are also but I just know that even if we make strides in the right direction, we are so badly managed that these 2 bozos will likely blow it again :lol:


That's not selective memory, that's leaving the past in the past. Every year is a new year. Just because YOU choose to condemn the team before it's even stepped on the field due to "past experience." I don't see it that way and I know of 53+ people who will agree with me come week 1.

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:47 am
by DEHog
Sorry SJ, but I’m confused?? You say we have great coaches and players but we won’t win because of the FO. How does the FO have anything to do with our success on the field outside of selecting the coaches and players?? Now don’t count me among those that think our front office is doing a good job. I’ve been a critic of our FO for a while, but I also acknowledge that it’s getting better. Although the pursuit of a QB in the off-season has me worried as to what they might do if Jason doesn’t have a good season this year. While I agree that the FO bares some of the responsibility for our lack of production on the field, I would differ in your opinion that we have great players and coaches, but the FO keeps us from wining. My beef is our history of trading picks, and signing high profile FA. Many on this board believe things are changing but there are a few things that must happen before I believe. First… they should allow Zorn to coach out his contract, if they feel Zorn is the guy then give him at least 3 years to prove it. Next, and this is a big one...It’s been my contention that Vinny is nothing more than a figurehead, but now many believe he is the GM and makes football decisions if that’s the case DS must hold him accountable and he must fire him before he fires any coach!

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:17 am
by SkinsJock
DEHog - all I'm frustrated about is that the team as it presently exists is not a bad team but I believe it could be a lot better if not for the way we have been "managed" - our record is mediocre and while I agree that things have gotten better recently we are still behind (in my estimation) where we could have been with better people running things than these 2 bozos

I am hopeful that we will continue to get better (I do think we are better) we're just not as competitive as we could be - I am worried that despite all the progress here, these 2 bozos will say this team needs a shake-up if we do not do well this year when we just need to both stay the course AND bring in some football people to continue the progress - people that know what they are doing not people like these 2 bozos :roll:

And I do not think that the players and coaches are not trying to play better and trying as hard as possible to win games - I just think the team would have a better chance at success with better management - I do think that sometimes teams lose games that they should win, but I think that good teams find a way to win and those good teams are put together by people that know what it takes to have a team that plays together - these 2 guys do not have much of an idea about that - their record here proves it.

I agree that the record and mediocre record are "in the past" but that is all we have to go on with these guys :roll:


I am hoping for the best but I just wish we had guys managing things here that would ensure success like so many other franchises

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:30 am
by SkinsJock
DEHog wrote:Sorry SJ, but I’m confused?? You say we have great coaches and players but we won’t win because of the FO.


I just feel that teams should be put tgether by people that "know the game". We do not have people running things here that know what it takes to be a winning team - these guys get talented players and coaches but not necessarily players (or coaches) who make the other players around them any better or make the team better.

We are a team that looks good on paper but not on the field. That is mainly (in my opinion) because the guys in charge are not good at what they do.

I look for management that is similar to the Patriots and other successful franchises - players are not "bought" - they have talent evaluators and scouts who give coaches the players that suit what they want to do - the Redskins, to date, have not done very well with that.

I know that we have changed recently but the QB "dance" was not a good thing to do - I think that was a Snyder/Cerrato "move" and not something that Zorn was a part of - that makes me think that these 2 bozos have not changed :roll:



btw - we do not have a FO and that is a huge problem :wink:

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:43 am
by SkinsFreak
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:SkinsJock,

I do want to make a point to say that it is frustrating to see such talent sputter out, but I'll wait for that to happen during the season. I am not going to bring the suffering upon myself in anticipation; I try to have a positive outlook until there's proof otherwise.


it must be wonderful to have selective memory and just face each new year with the anticipation that everything will be just fine - I will be very hopeful that we can be better than we are also but I just know that even if we make strides in the right direction, we are so badly managed that these 2 bozos will likely blow it again :lol:


That's not selective memory, that's leaving the past in the past. Every year is a new year. Just because YOU choose to condemn the team before it's even stepped on the field due to "past experience." I don't see it that way and I know of 53+ people who will agree with me come week 1.


You got that right! Couldn't agree more. Every player and every coach in this league enters each new season expecting to win. That's the attitude you have to take. Otherwise, why play the game?