The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Self promotion:

I wrote a Blog relating to the Anger Management skills required by Redskins Fans. Just in case anybody here might need it or you know somebody who might ...

Ray Austin said:

the offense was completely out coached by opposing defenses when the reverse should have been expected.

True in the NY Game... absolutely not the case in Green Bay. This was purely a case of coaching lapses, the continued inability to hold the ball by our players, and the physical collapse of the Center and both R Tackles. Green Bay's defense merely benefited from these. This was a Redskins melt-down, pure and simple. The defense could have been the Alice Deal Junior High School Argonauts, and the result would have been the same.

Thanks for the offer RiC, but I'm glad to say I don't need your help in this one. I woke up this morning, feeling fine. It seems that the sun did indeed come up this morning (although, being England, we never actually saw conclusive proof of the fact). The Redskins are still 3-2, and the Cowgirls lost. We were only separated from the win by Santana's hands, not by playcalling, or all round offensive incompetence. We were close to winning a road game in Green Bay - never easy. Wrong time for Santana to leave his hands at home.

Nurse, the sedative is wearing off.

The whole offense - coaches and players need to step up big time - We not only have to get guys to catch the ball we also have to get Campbell to put it where they can catch it - he has had 12 games now - this guy was going to dedicate the off-season to being a better QB and that included working with the WRs in his words "whatever it takes" - he needs to make better passes - his passes need to be caught but that IMO is mainly on him NOT his wideouts.

Put in where they can catch it? It's not JC's fault that his receivers couldn't catch a cold yesterday. The kid was very accurate. Of course there were a few throws that were off, that happens to every qb. Overall though, JC played one hell of a game. Just off the top of my head I can think of 3 drives that ended because of dropped passes. I believe that JC had 9 passes dropped on him and that probably cost us around 100 yards.

his passes need to be caught but that IMO is mainly on him NOT his wideouts.

How is it his fault that his receivers are dropping easy passes?? I have no idea how you conjured up that ridiculous statement. JC remained posed and composed despite having receivers that couldn't catch, an inefective running game, and with an offensive line that forced him to run for his life in the 4th quarter. JC and ey were the only bright spots on offense yesterday.

How are we so sure that Saunders dont have complete control of this Offense? I mean , while in KC , with a lead they simply handed the game to Holmes or Johnson and let them tear it up in the second half. Couple that with the possesion type passes to the TE Gonzolez. The problem is that right now , more teams have geared themselves to stopping that type of system. The really sucsessful teams in the NFL right now are running 3 and 4 wides, spread offenses. Even the Patriots, Cowboys and Steelers are heading down this path. All teams who used to rely heavily on the run are not what you could call balanced attacks nowadays. Somewhere along the line it became a rule that you must score 35 points every week to win. Which undefeated or 1 loss team is counting on their running game to carry them? So the entire system that the Skins may be trying to run right now is completely out of trend with the rest of the league.

We are trying to be a balanced team, run first (I dont care what Joe said, he still wants run first). Clock management? we had the ball for what, almost 10 more minutes than GB? why do we need more time than that?

Lets see , wet ball, wet grass , neoprene gloves below 60deg., um take the gloves OFF! I didnt see the Packers guys struggle with footing , I d like to know if the long cleats made the trip?

Poor ol' Buges, we havent been able to run to the right side since the NY game. Coach Bugel, we need some magic.

If we are going to be balanced (but run first balance) you cant do it by running only left side (12 to the right in 9 quarters of football). If you are only running to one side, its not balance. Don't get me wrong, I know its due to injury, but still, our opponents know that too.

Now last week I defended Portis putting the ball on the groun twice, not being able to recall a particular problem before. Um , Sir, 2 weeks in a row is becoming a trend and 3 strikes means your out in football too. Portis is still our most talented back, lets hope he gets this fixed.

After all of this, I didnt expect to win this game until we were leading and then was terribly disappointed when we didnt. I feel bad for the Defense, those guys are just lights out right now and should be able to win games for us this year, it just sucks we need to count on them to win games. This wasnt a must win but it woulda been a nice one to have. Arizona however is a must win before the trip to Foxboro, were gonna need the confidence boost for that one. The Patriots however are a team we dont need to beat, but we very well could, they havent seen a D like ours either. I mean hell , ridin 4and 2 into Foxboro and playin the Pats tough would be ptretty damned sporty and set a nice tone for the rest of the season.

The sky hasnt fallen folks, this is still a very good team and one more week is down awaiting the return of some of our injured warriors. I wont give up til they do!

jmooney wrote:How are we so sure that Saunders dont have complete control of this Offense? I mean , while in KC , with a lead they simply handed the game to Holmes or Johnson and let them tear it up in the second half. Couple that with the possesion type passes to the TE Gonzolez. The problem is that right now , more teams have geared themselves to stopping that type of system. The really sucsessful teams in the NFL right now are running 3 and 4 wides, spread offenses. Even the Patriots, Cowboys and Steelers are heading down this path. All teams who used to rely heavily on the run are not what you could call balanced attacks nowadays. Somewhere along the line it became a rule that you must score 35 points every week to win. Which undefeated or 1 loss team is counting on their running game to carry them? So the entire system that the Skins may be trying to run right now is completely out of trend with the rest of the league.

We are trying to be a balanced team, run first (I dont care what Joe said, he still wants run first). Clock management? we had the ball for what, almost 10 more minutes than GB? why do we need more time than that?

Lets see , wet ball, wet grass , neoprene gloves below 60deg., um take the gloves OFF! I didnt see the Packers guys struggle with footing , I d like to know if the long cleats made the trip?

Poor ol' Buges, we havent been able to run to the right side since the NY game. Coach Bugel, we need some magic.

If we are going to be balanced (but run first balance) you cant do it by running only left side (12 to the right in 9 quarters of football). If you are only running to one side, its not balance. Don't get me wrong, I know its due to injury, but still, our opponents know that too.

Now last week I defended Portis putting the ball on the groun twice, not being able to recall a particular problem before. Um , Sir, 2 weeks in a row is becoming a trend and 3 strikes means your out in football too. Portis is still our most talented back, lets hope he gets this fixed.

After all of this, I didnt expect to win this game until we were leading and then was terribly disappointed when we didnt. I feel bad for the Defense, those guys are just lights out right now and should be able to win games for us this year, it just sucks we need to count on them to win games. This wasnt a must win but it woulda been a nice one to have. Arizona however is a must win before the trip to Foxboro, were gonna need the confidence boost for that one. The Patriots however are a team we dont need to beat, but we very well could, they havent seen a D like ours either. I mean hell , ridin 4and 2 into Foxboro and playin the Pats tough would be ptretty damned sporty and set a nice tone for the rest of the season.

The sky hasnt fallen folks, this is still a very good team and one more week is down awaiting the return of some of our injured warriors. I wont give up til they do!

The Green Bay loss was a collective effort, hogs. It was almost as much about the inability to establish the run as it was the inablility to make plays in the passing game, and not to mention, Moss' huge mistake. But it should've never come down to a play like the Moss fumble because the Skins defense played well enough for the Skins to win that game by 2 touchdowns, even with the Packers much improved defense.

No big plays came in the running game and when your TE has more receiving yards than the rest of the team combined, and almost as many catches, you are now the Kansas City Chiefs, minus the solid running game.

The bottom line is in games like that, your running game or short passing game is supposed to bail you out. The reverse to Moss should not have even been called for 2 reasons: 1) They hadn't established anything to the right side all game, so it wasn't like they would catch the Pack overplaying the run to that side. 2) If you could make anything close to a big play in the conventional running or short passing game, calls like that wouldn't be necessary to make something happen. The second one is probably hindsight 20/20 and me being extremely critical, but the Skins inability to make anything else happen made the Moss play the pivotal play in the game.

The Green Bay loss was a collective effort, hogs. It was almost as much about the inability to establish the run as it was the inablility to make plays in the passing game, and not to mention, Moss' huge mistake. But it should've never come down to a play like the Moss fumble because the Skins defense played well enough for the Skins to win that game by 2 touchdowns, even with the Packers much improved defense.

No big plays came in the running game and when your TE has more receiving yards than the rest of the team combined, and almost as many catches, you are now the Kansas City Chiefs, minus the solid running game.

The bottom line is in games like that, your running game or short passing game is supposed to bail you out. The reverse to Moss should not have even been called for 2 reasons: 1) They hadn't established anything to the right side all game, so it wasn't like they would catch the Pack overplaying the run to that side. 2) If you could make anything close to a big play in the conventional running or short passing game, calls like that wouldn't be necessary to make something happen. The second one is probably hindsight 20/20 and me being extremely critical, but the Skins inability to make anything else happen made the Moss play the pivotal play in the game.

Hmm....and I wonder why the running game wasn't working? Oh, that's right, our offensive line has been decimated with injuries. And not to mention the fact that Green Bay actually has a very solid run defense. I don't care who the running back is....Larry Johnson, Ladanian Tomlinsion, etc. None of them are going to be able to run behind a line that has guys like Fabini, Pucillo, an injured Wade, or Heyer playing major minutes. Chris ey himself said that we cant run to the right with our line problems.

This is what they had to say at Fox Sports:


Packers 17, Redskins 14
Santana Moss did as much to cost his team this game as one player can do without sparking an investigation by the gaming commission. He dropped every pass thrown in his direction, including one that he batted into the air for an interception. Then he fumbled on an end-around, generously providing Charles Woodson with the only TD of the second half. Still, the Skins had a chance to win until they went with their standard, game-losing play: Ladell Betts running left on 4th-and-1 for no gain.



Entire link here: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7333944

They didn't even get the play right. It was a pass to the right. Sounds like someone wrote a game review after reading the box score and not actually watching the game. Typical of reporting over at FOX.

CanesSkins26 wrote:.. It's not JC's fault that his receivers couldn't catch a cold yesterday. The kid was very accurate. Of course there were a few throws that were off, that happens to every qb. Overall though, JC played one hell of a game. Just off the top of my head I can think of 3 drives that ended because of dropped passes. I believe that JC had 9 passes dropped on him and that probably cost us around 100 yards.

How is it his fault that his receivers are dropping easy passes?? I have no idea how you conjured up that ridiculous statement. JC remained posed and composed despite having receivers that couldn't catch, an inefective running game, and with an offensive line that forced him to run for his life in the 4th quarter. JC and ey were the only bright spots on offense yesterday.

There are many examples but what has really bothered me this year and was pointed out on at least 2 occasions by the commentators is that by the time Campbell recognizes that his receivers are open they are very quickly covered - this happens in the NFL where you have to make much quicker decisions and yesterday was another example that Campbell is still not making his reads quick enough - "JC remained posed" probably makes the point for me don't you think

I do like the word conjured but the rest of your post was fairly mundane in my opinion - were you really seeing the same game that we all watched - I do not blame Campbell, especially not for what we all saw yesterday - I am just saying his passes still need some work and he has had 12 games plus his assertion that whatever was needed would be accomplished this past off season



and he needs to stop posing

Plain & Simple, the offense needs some work, the team needs to get healthy. The only position where I feel comfortable is on defense. I have been a derrick frost supporter here since he came. Check my posts but yesterday was a rough game for him. He needs to regain his form and I'm sure he will rebound.

I agree that he needs to get his reads off a hell of a lot quicker. That may or may not come with time. With his arm, he would do quite well with a timing scheme as long as he doesn't have to check down to his 3rd or 4th.....that and his short ball is where he needs the most work.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I agree that he needs to get his reads off a hell of a lot quicker. That may or may not come with time. With his arm, he would do quite well with a timing scheme as long as he doesn't have to check down to his 3rd or 4th.....that and his short ball is where he needs the most work.

What Jason Campbell is reading is that his primary and secondary receivers can't get open. Thus the nine receptions by Chris ey this weekend. When the primary and secondary receivers are open, particularly the primary receiver, he can't hold onto the pass. And seeing as how J.C. has no pass protection to speak of, and no running game to speak of with the makeshift offensive line, he doesn't have even the usual and customary amount of time to go through his reads. Offensively, there is more than enough blame to go around. J.C. is the one player who doesn't deserve his fair share. The man is playing his ass off every week.

GSPODS wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I agree that he needs to get his reads off a hell of a lot quicker. That may or may not come with time. With his arm, he would do quite well with a timing scheme as long as he doesn't have to check down to his 3rd or 4th.....that and his short ball is where he needs the most work.

What Jason Campbell is reading is that his primary and secondary receivers can't get open. Thus the nine receptions by Chris ey this weekend. When the primary and secondary receivers are open, particularly the primary receiver, he can't hold onto the pass. And seeing as how J.C. has no pass protection to speak of, and no running game to speak of with the makeshift offensive line, he doesn't have even the usual and customary amount of time to go through his reads. Offensively, there is more than enough blame to go around. J.C. is the one player who doesn't deserve his fair share. The man is playing his ass off every week.

I concur with that. Given his youth, JC is doing just fine. I don't blame him AT ALL for Sunday's loss - he was scrambling for his life on most plays, especially in the second half.

GSPODS wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I agree that he needs to get his reads off a hell of a lot quicker. That may or may not come with time. With his arm, he would do quite well with a timing scheme as long as he doesn't have to check down to his 3rd or 4th.....that and his short ball is where he needs the most work.

What Jason Campbell is reading is that his primary and secondary receivers can't get open. Thus the nine receptions by Chris ey this weekend. When the primary and secondary receivers are open, particularly the primary receiver, he can't hold onto the pass. And seeing as how J.C. has no pass protection to speak of, and no running game to speak of with the makeshift offensive line, he doesn't have even the usual and customary amount of time to go through his reads. Offensively, there is more than enough blame to go around. J.C. is the one player who doesn't deserve his fair share. The man is playing his ass off every week.

I agree too. That limited pass protection was evident in the second half when Lloyd was wide open coming across the middle and JC had to pull it down because Wade got pushed into him by Kampman when it looked like Betts was supposed to help Wade by chipping Kampman and he didn't. Watch it tonight on NFL Replay at 10:30pm.

But you know, this is the NFL and this team and it's coaches should be more than able to make the necessary adjustments to make this offense more productive. If the right side is weak, add a TE or Sellers to help with protection and run blocking. It's common sense, I think.

roybus14 wrote:But you know, this is the NFL and this team and it's coaches should be more than able to make the necessary adjustments to make this offense more productive. If the right side is weak, add a TE or Sellers to help with protection and run blocking. It's common sense, I think.

You know better than to say that Lloyd was open. Wide open...

I kind of misspoke earlier by saying the entire offense was to blame for the loss to the Packers. Actually, JC was the least to blame on offense.

Irn-Bru wrote:

welch wrote:Secondary_Chaos said

Guys, this is still the Redskins. I am 22 years old and since I have legitimately followed football, the Skins have stunk for the most part minus a few seasons. Every year its the same story. We lose to the teams we should beat and we give away games we should have won. I will tell you this, the Redskins have the most die hard fans in the league to be able to fill the biggest stadium in the league after not having been consistently better than average for the past 15 years. And I can tell you this, from these 15 or so years I have been following football and the Redskins specifically, I wont let myself stay angry about this game. As a wise man once said to me "Why stay mad? You still have to wake up and go to work and pay your bills. They care about you sucking at your job as much as you should about them sucking at their job." Amen brother, Amen....

You are truly a Redskin fan. You have the spirit.

I became aware of the team about 1953, when I was five, and the Redskins did not make the playoffs until 1971. Yes, in the early days there was only one game, the championship, but check the record at:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams ... /redskins/

It will happen. The team will pull together and win, and that will be all the more fun because of having suffered through the bad seasons.

I missed this the first time around. Great post, Secondary Chaos.

Whoever is the source of that quote is god-like

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

roybus14 wrote:But you know, this is the NFL and this team and it's coaches should be more than able to make the necessary adjustments to make this offense more productive. If the right side is weak, add a TE or Sellers to help with protection and run blocking. It's common sense, I think.

You know better than to say that Lloyd was open. Wide open...

Watch it tonight bruh, on NFL Replay.... You'll see it. You'll see Wade get bull-rushed by Kampman all the way into JC and you could see Lloyd go streaking by across the middle with just him and the safety over the top. If JC could have hit him, it would've been a foot-race between Lloyd and the safety because everybody else was underneath.

roybus14 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

roybus14 wrote:But you know, this is the NFL and this team and it's coaches should be more than able to make the necessary adjustments to make this offense more productive. If the right side is weak, add a TE or Sellers to help with protection and run blocking. It's common sense, I think.

You know better than to say that Lloyd was open. Wide open...

Watch it tonight bruh, on NFL Replay.... You'll see it. You'll see Wade get bull-rushed by Kampman all the way into JC and you could see Lloyd go streaking by across the middle with just him and the safety over the top. If JC could have hit him, it would've been a foot-race between Lloyd and the safety because everybody else was underneath.

That's not the point, Lloyd is never open. He's either not doing what he needs to do to get playing time or he is WIDE open. But he's never just open.

And when they DO add ey to block, the the tears come out because ey's not out catching passes. Or Sellers isn't running/catching. They can only be in one place at a time.

roybus14 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

roybus14 wrote:But you know, this is the NFL and this team and it's coaches should be more than able to make the necessary adjustments to make this offense more productive. If the right side is weak, add a TE or Sellers to help with protection and run blocking. It's common sense, I think.

You know better than to say that Lloyd was open. Wide open...

Watch it tonight bruh, on NFL Replay.... You'll see it. You'll see Wade get bull-rushed by Kampman all the way into JC and you could see Lloyd go streaking by across the middle with just him and the safety over the top. If JC could have hit him, it would've been a foot-race between Lloyd and the safety because everybody else was underneath.

Watched the replay and there was only the safety on top and a LB or CB underneath but there was space between the two. JC was definitely going to Lloyd but the pressure from Kampman caused him to pull it down.

I also hit the rewind button on the long pass to Lloyd and I couldn't really see if he could have actually put the ball any better than what he did. Lloyd had the CBs by a step and if JC hung the ball out there they may have collapsed and broke up the play. The ball was almost perfect and Lloyd almost made a great catch. But what I was also amazed by was Lloyd's speed. He got up field on that play so quick that as soon as JC took his drops he let it good down field and Lloyd almost caught it.....

roybus14 wrote:I also hit the rewind button on the long pass to Lloyd and I couldn't really see if he could have actually put the ball any better than what he did. Lloyd had the CBs by a step and if JC hung the ball out there they may have collapsed and broke up the play. The ball was almost perfect and Lloyd almost made a great catch. But what I was also amazed by was Lloyd's speed. He got up field on that play so quick that as soon as JC took his drops he let it good down field and Lloyd almost caught it.....

It takes longer to throw a pass with some more air under it? JC is an amazing QB and Lloyd made an amazing effort. The only remedy to that failed pass is some more practice time together. Which means taking Lloyd off of the practice squad. Lloyd actually made a similar catch in that game.

Lloyd seemed like in the past he would "glide" for a bit (possibly misjudging the velocity of the pass) and then trying to turn the burners back on (Miami INT). On that deep bomb, he kept the burners on and got amazing seperation. A bit more touch on the ball is all that is required.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It takes longer to throw a pass with some more air under it?

Like in that fantasy commercial he did. JC's the best.