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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:53 am
by Red_One43
Deadskins wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:With Haynesworth resurfacing in the news I wanted to post this article by Jason La Confora soon after Haynesworth signed with the Skins that proves that Haynesworth was a guy difficult with epic proportions for coaches to deal with. Also, that Cerrato clearly did not do any homework on the Haynesworth. Haynesworth's rep was out there, but the Skins bit hook line and sinker. The Titans got two All-Pro seasons out of Haynesworth but no Super Bowl - not even an appearance.


After Agreeing to Huge Contract, Redskins May Be Wise to Let Haynesworth Freelance

By Jason La Canfora
Saturday, February 28, 2009



For[color=darkred] a good five years
, Jim Washburn tried to buck Albert Haynesworth. The Tennessee Titans' defensive line coach wanted to mold the fiery defensive tackle into a prototypical lineman, harping on technique and footwork, clashing repeatedly with his most gifted pupil.

Finally, a couple of years ago, he relented. Haynesworth was a special case, as angry and recalcitrant at times as he was talented, and Washburn, 59, was ready to make an exception for him. He granted the 6-foot-6, 320-pound lineman rare privileges to rush the passer with relative abandon, eschew much traditional technique and search for ways to best maximize his unique skills.

"I realized I had to cut my losses," Washburn said by telephone from his office yesterday, hours after the Washington Redskins signed Haynesworth to the richest contract ever for a defensive player in the NFL. "I stopped trying to make him a technique player. After a while, I adapted to him and what he does and stopped trying to fight to make him a conventional tackle. He's a non-traditional player, and I think the coaches there will find that out.

"It wasn't without a lot of turmoil that we got to that point, but I decided I wasn't going to put a plow on a racehorse. I wasn't going to saddle him with that anymore. You might hear some people say I let him freelance, but I let him play and tried to do what was best to help us win games. I'm not really into paralysis by analysis."

Perhaps Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Blache, a taskmaster and a disciple of rigid technique, would be wise to accept this reality from the onset. Haynesworth, 27, is unlikely to be any less headstrong after agreeing to a seven-year deal worth a maximum of $115 million, with a record $41 million guaranteed and $32 million to be paid out over just 13 months. And after the production Washburn helped cull from this athlete -- altering the scope and alignment of his entire line to suit Haynesworth's abilities -- it would make little sense to try to force him into such confines now. "I want to be able to attack my gap, make plays and everybody make plays off of me," said Haynesworth, who regularly beats double-teams. "I want to do almost the same thing I did in Tennessee."
Blache, whose team ranked 28th in sacks and had the third-fewest takeaways in the NFL last season, appears willing to oblige. "When you add a talent to this degree, you adjust things to fit him," he said. "We realize that we've got something that we haven't had before." A year ago, on a smaller scale, the Redskins traded a second-round pick for defensive end Jason Taylor, a player accustomed to being allowed to sacrifice run responsibilities in a 3-4 front to attack the passer. He flopped in Blache's disciplined system, expressing frustration about his role when the season concluded. With Haynesworth -- a player accustomed to angry outbursts -- the fuse stands to be much shorter, and the stakes far higher. Blache's tackles generally bear immense run responsibilities -- his scheme is based on simplicity and stopping the run above all else -- and primarily are utilized to absorb blockers to create room for linebackers to make plays. Haynesworth is used to firing off the line on instinct, relying on his size, strength and "God-given gifts," as Washburn put it, to surge through offensive linemen and make plays.

"If you try to rigid him down and say you have to play this stance, he'll tell them to [kiss off]," one NFL coach familiar with Haynesworth said. "The one thing Albert is really special at is rushing the passer from the inside, and he plays the run on the way to the pass. If you try to screw him down with run technique and stopping the run first, which is how they play, then that's really a disservice to his abilities."

Washburn can attest to that. The Titans knew they were getting a potential problem child when they drafted Haynesworth 15th overall in 2002 out of Tennessee. He had encountered his fair share of trouble through his school years and had "fallen out of favor" with his high school coach in his senior year, Washburn said. But his unparalleled collection of frame and potential was too compelling to pass up, and the Titans hoped Washburn could work him into shape.

"It was very painful coaching Albert for a long time," Washburn said, prefacing his phone interview with the caveat that he would not be taking time out of his day to talk if not for his affection for his former player. "But he matured after a while. I tried to dangle the carrot in front of him sometimes, and he came to see the money some guys were making, and what they were accomplishing, going to the Pro Bowl and things like that, and I think he wanted to achieve that, too." Besides relaxing Haynesworth's technical burdens, Washburn created other avenues to help the tackle flourish. He used him as a defensive end on many passing downs, and would draw significant attention from tight ends and chips from running backs when doing so.

"One-on-one, you don't see anyone blocking him," said Redskins defensive tackle Cornelius Griffin, now slated to start alongside Haynesworth.

"His speed rushing off the edge is tremendous," one NFL personnel executive said, "and he can play right [tackle], he can play left [tackle] and he can play both end positions."

Washburn, who has developed seven top-notch linemen this decade and calls Haynesworth the brightest player he has coached, based much of his game plan on generating advantageous matchups. Washburn would identify the weakest offensive lineman and try to get Haynesworth as many snaps as possible in his face, regardless of whether it was a center, guard or tackle. In 2007, he also switched his best pass-rushing end, Pro Bowler Kyle Vanden Bosch, to the right side to play next to Haynesworth, using one or the other as a decoy and establishing one of the best tandems in the NFL.

"They ate lunch together every day, they sat together at every meeting," Washburn said. "It was a rare combination, and Kyle held Albert accountable."

In Washington, the task is quite different. The team believes that Haynesworth's presence will defy the age and limitations of their starting ends, Taylor and Andre Carter, both of whom are coming off of poor seasons. They are betting that Haynesworth's attitude, fitness and health issues -- he has averaged just 12 starts per season since becoming a full-time starter in 2003, and has never played more than 65 percent of his team's snaps -- are behind him. Instead, they are expecting him to repeat the monster, 8 1/2 -sack season he had in 2008 (one less than Haynesworth had in his first five seasons combined).

With just four picks in April's draft, the Redskins are wagering that a Haynesworth-led defense will put points on the scoreboard and dominate field position, as their 19th-ranked offense, unable to run the ball or pass protect in the second half of the season, awaits reinforcements, particularly on the line, with what little salary cap space remains. [/color]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02765.html

Red's not a good highlight color. :idea:


Tried to get Burgundy and Gold, BUT Lesson Learned

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:30 am
by SkinsJock
Don't particularly care for JLC but I did read the article

I guess I was hoping that Haynesworth would be different here - I'm obviously just as stupid at player evaluation as Cerrato and his gang


what a waste but then again this franchise has been managed in a really horrible way for over 10 years and it is going to take a while to recover

I don't think that Haynesworth is going to change and I hope he is treated with the same respect as he has for his coaches


This is a big waste of talent - I hope he gets what he deserves

can we get some Haynesworth "supporters" to enlighten us on how things could have been done differently with this guy?

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:04 am
by KazooSkinsFan
SkinsJock wrote:can we get some Haynesworth "supporters" to enlighten us on how things could have been done differently with this guy?

They'll be glad to throw out some platitudes and generalities that evade the question and and firmly believe that proves you wrong. Oh, MS made it a test of wills, he refused to compromise, he was stubborn, he was arrogant, he made it an ego fest. Ergo, you're wrong, sorry. Management is responsible for none of the good that happens and all the bad. If workers fail, it's management's fault. If management succeeds, it's only on the backs of the workers. The workers are the Proletariat being oppressed by the Bourgeois even when the workers are millionaires.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:10 am
by Skinsfan55
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:can we get some Haynesworth "supporters" to enlighten us on how things could have been done differently with this guy?

They'll be glad to throw out some platitudes and generalities that evade the question and and firmly believe that proves you wrong. Oh, MS made it a test of wills, he refused to compromise, he was stubborn, he was arrogant, he made it an ego fest. Ergo, you're wrong, sorry. Management is responsible for none of the good that happens and all the bad. If workers fail, it's management's fault. If management succeeds, it's only on the backs of the workers. The workers are the Proletariat being oppressed by the Bourgeois even when the workers are millionaires.


Yeah, I think even Karl Marx might be confused by labor disputes in professional sports.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:28 am
by SKINFAN
The proverbial dead horse, kick it make sure it's dead and let's move on. Expensive mistake, but the lessons learned are hopefully worth what we spent. =)

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:38 am
by langleyparkjoe
4-4 with Haynesworth playing. That stat is confusing because he didn't play much when in the damn games sometimes.

2-6 losses with him not playing.

Now I'm not the brightest star in the sky but to me it seems we were better with him in the games vs out of the games. The beached whale vs philly thing, not doing what was asked in practice, coming late.. and whatever else are obviously the reasons he didn't play (oh, and Shanahan's iron fist). Again though, we're 4-4 with him in the games and as a fan who WANTS TO WIN, I'd say (and hindsight is a bleepity bleep) that we should've played him. Doc Walker has been saying throughout the year that we should play him.. if for anything else he'll take up space so Orakpo/Carter may have better room to go at the offense.. or even our LBs.

4-4 with him, 2-6 without him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3543

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:02 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:4-4 with Haynesworth playing. That stat is confusing because he didn't play much when in the damn games sometimes

I think this summarizes it best. But if you accept we're 4-4 with him and 2-6 without him on the face of it, I'd argue both stats show we need a different solution, not what we have and not AH.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:03 pm
by SKINFAN
LPJ, I see your point of winning, but seing this guy on the field is a disgrace. Sure he had impact on games but he also employed the lay and play on some key situations. I'd rather have a guy with average talent going at it at 100% than a guy with great talent playing at 50%. His attitude might rub into other guys. I was an AH supporter until I saw him laying there on a few plays. I'm guessing that's his version of the bend not break LoL.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:34 pm
by Red_One43
SkinsJock wrote:Don't particularly care for JLC but I did read the article

I guess I was hoping that Haynesworth would be different here - I'm obviously just as stupid at player evaluation as Cerrato and his gang


what a waste but then again this franchise has been managed in a really horrible way for over 10 years and it is going to take a while to recover

I don't think that Haynesworth is going to change and I hope he is treated with the same respect as he has for his coaches


This is a big waste of talent - I hope he gets what he deserves

can we get some Haynesworth "supporters" to enlighten us on how things could have been done differently with this guy?


I am by no means a Haynesworth supporter, BUT what if Blache took this advise:

Perhaps Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Blache, a taskmaster and a disciple of rigid technique, would be wise to accept this reality from the onset. Haynesworth, 27, is unlikely to be any less headstrong after agreeing to a seven-year deal worth a maximum of $115 million, with a record $41 million guaranteed and $32 million to be paid out over just 13 months. And after the production Washburn helped cull from this athlete -- altering the scope and alignment of his entire line to suit Haynesworth's abilities -- it would make little sense to try to force him into such confines now. "I want to be able to attack my gap, make plays and everybody make plays off of me," said Haynesworth, who regularly beats double-teams. "I want to do almost the same thing I did in Tennessee."
Blache, whose team ranked 28th in sacks and had the third-fewest takeaways in the NFL last season, appears willing to oblige. "When you add a talent to this degree, you adjust things to fit him," he said. "We realize that we've got something that we haven't had before." A year ago, on a smaller scale, the Redskins traded a second-round pick for defensive end Jason Taylor, a player accustomed to being allowed to sacrifice run responsibilities in a 3-4 front to attack the passer. He flopped in Blache's disciplined system, expressing frustration about his role when the season concluded.


This was our ONLY chance to have gotten any type of ALL -Pro season out of Haynesworth (We had the 4-3 last year so that obviously wasn't enough). I think it would have been fun watching him disrupt offenses for the 12 games (his average number of games he plays a year) he was here. Would it have given us more than 4 wins? I would have to say yes. Would it have translated into a wild card berth or better? I would say that that is highly, highly debatable.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:07 pm
by skinsfan#33
Anyone know how much of the Danny's money this fat, lazy, insorbordinate slob got? I know the numbers that comes up all the time are $100 M and $41M guaranteed, but I think it is going to be far less than $41M. Maybe $32M. Not cump change, but still, so much for "guaranteed money".

At least, MS and BA changed his contract (and AH chipped in by skipping that manadory camp - voiding the guarantee of his 2011 and 2012 sallery) so we can cut his rather large behind and be free and clear cap wise!

Say what you want about MS and BA, but we are going to be WAAAAYYYY better off when the cap kicks back in!

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:05 pm
by Red_One43
SKINFAN wrote:LPJ, I see your point of winning, but seing this guy on the field is a disgrace. Sure he had impact on games but he also employed the lay and play on some key situations. I'd rather have a guy with average talent going at it at 100% than a guy with great talent playing at 50%. His attitude might rub into other guys. I was an AH supporter until I saw him laying there on a few plays. I'm guessing that's his version of the bend not break LoL.


I agree 100%. I loved watching Haynesworth when he was going full speed. No one player could block him, but getting hurt and then being carted away and miraculously return, got old. Seeing him get pushed around when we had Dallas backed up on their own goal line made me realize that Haynesworth really isn't that good. Hearing the reason why he stomped Gourade of Dallas in the first place was he was getting abused by Gourade. I can't wait to hear the news that he is no longer on our roster.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:31 pm
by KCskin
skinsfan#33 wrote:Anyone know how much of the Danny's money this fat, lazy, insorbordinate slob got? I know the numbers that comes up all the time are $100 M and $41M guaranteed, but I think it is going to be far less than $41M. Maybe $32M. Not cump change, but still, so much for "guaranteed money".

At least, MS and BA changed his contract (and AH chipped in by skipping that manadory camp - voiding the guarantee of his 2011 and 2012 sallery) so we can cut his rather large behind and be free and clear cap wise!

Say what you want about MS and BA, but we are going to be WAAAAYYYY better off when the cap kicks back in!

The suspension opened on a contract violation so they'll be looking to get that bonus money back, too.

But it doesn't snuff out that Haynesworth didn't hide any of this up front.
I count Haynesworth also as a lost draft pick opportunity.
I'd still like to know the thinking about giving him the bonus in the first place.
What did they think was going to happen?

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:35 pm
by langleyparkjoe
I agree with you guys entirely.. the beached whale thing against philly which gave them the go-ahead TD is what did it for me.

"I had a charlie horse".. "I thought the play was over"

The fat ;furious; looked like an infant learning to roll over and looked to the sidelines like a baby looks for their parent. Awful.. just awful.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:54 pm
by SkinsJock
I find it hard to fathom the thought process that some here have - Haynesworth was not acquired to show up and play the way he wanted to - Haynesworth, like all football players are a part of the team and as such they are expected to do what the coaches (the teams representatives) want and need him to do - end of story

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:20 pm
by TCIYM
We need some news. The Redskins have a snowball's chance in hell of recouping any monies already paid to Haynesworth. They are playing a game of "give us back X dollars for your unconditional release" but they have no ground upon which to stand. The language of the CBA sides with Haynesworth. They also had no ground on the "take the bonus and do what we ask or don't take the bonus move on" game. They owed him that money per the contract they gave him and had no recourse. They knew they had no recourse or they would have filed for a "conduct detrimental to the team" breach of contract before they paid him the bonus. All they can do at this point is get him out of dodge for a 4th or 5th round pick (hopefully) and move on. Lesson learned.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:12 pm
by SkinsJock
I hope that Mike treats him with the same respect that Haynesworth has given him - and I hope Mike finds every which way to stick it in the fat boy's rear end :lol:

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:14 pm
by chiefhog44
Pat Kirwyn on Sirius NFL...There is little to no chance on getting anything for McNabb or Haynesworth. Not that he is THE authority on the issue, but he does know an awful lot.

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:36 pm
by Red_One43
chiefhog44 wrote:Pat Kirwyn on Sirius NFL...There is little to no chance on getting anything for McNabb or Haynesworth. Not that he is THE authority on the issue, but he does know an awful lot.


As long as Jeff Fischer is coach of the Titans there will be a head coach who is willing to keep Albert off the open market especially since his current contract is now cheaper than what someone might have to pay on the open market. Like Mark Schereth said, coaches think that they can fix anybody out there and I am sure that Haynesworth is no exception.

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:27 am
by Deadskins
SkinsJock wrote:I hope that Mike treats him with the same respect that Haynesworth has given him - and I hope Mike finds every which way to stick it in the fat boy's rear end :lol:

That's exactly how this situation got to the point it's at now. :roll:

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:15 am
by SkinsJock
Deadskins wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I hope that Mike treats him with the same respect that Haynesworth has given him - and I hope Mike finds every which way to stick it in the fat boy's rear end

That's exactly how this situation got to the point it's at now. :roll:


I like where we are now - we used to have a guy that basically felt he was not being used properly and that we were not worth making any effort for - he let his fellow players down and he showed himself to be completely about himself

we now have a situation where we make the decision on what to do and I am very confident that Mike will do 2 things:
1) - get rid of this fat tub
2) - make the "process" be as difficult as possible for him

yeah :up: - I'm for continuing to treat this piece of fat as he's treated us

we don't look like we're getting anything for him so I'm for making his NFL experience be as hard as possible

Haynesworth is not worth anything to this franchise anymore and should be treated like the garbage that he is "throw him in a bag, tie him up and dump him where the garbage collectors can take him away"