The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

These guys are trying to make things work here

I understand that everyone thinks differently about how we should solve the issues we have and some are making good suggestions that I just don't happen to agree with - that's what it's all about, here

the posters that I take issue with are the ones that are so negative about everything that it just makes you wonder why they want to come here and share with us

all they're doing is making us aware of how miserable they probably are to be with - can you imagine some of these so called fans on game day?
the last few minutes of Sunday's game must have been a blast

To me ... the issue still remains the same. It was a bad decision to pull McNabb ... not iffy ... not slightly controversial ... down right poor judgement right at the moment Rex trotted onto the field. The results only confirmed what everyone else was thinking. Crush, fumble, 7 points for the Lions, and game over. This isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20 .. this is just poor judgement, and not the only example of it ... just the most recent.

There would not be a lingering issue had the coach come right out and say it was a gut call that didn't work, and not a good decision, rather than all of the excuses. That's what bothers me the most ... not that a coach would make a bad call ... that happens ... it's going to happen from time to time, because nobody is perfect.

I've got problems with someone who refuses to own up to their bad decisions, and take responsibility.

It wasn't just unfair to McNabb either ... it was unfair to put Grossman in that situation .... being less mobile than McNabb, he had no chance ... none. It was a disaster waiting to happen, and as it turned out, it didn't take long for that disaster to appear ... 1 play.

RayNAustin wrote:To me ... the issue still remains the same. It was a bad decision to pull McNabb ...

To you and everyone else

RayNAustin wrote:It wasn't just unfair to McNabb either ... it was unfair to put Grossman in that situation ....

If Grossman doesn't want the ball any time under any circumstances he can get it, then he shouldn't even stop at his locker he should just keep going to his car, go home and not come back. I seriously doubt he felt that way though.

SkinsJock wrote:These guys are trying to make things work here

I agree brother. I already moved on and I am supporting MY WHOLE TEAM 100%

The stories from the past have been scrutinised to death. We can only hope that everybody who is concerned learned their lesson and it is time to move on.

We REALLY have to beat PHILTHY big time the next time. Too much is at stake.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:These guys are trying to make things work here

I agree brother. I already moved on and I am supporting MY WHOLE TEAM 100%

The stories from the past have been scrutinised to death. We can only hope that everybody who is concerned learned their lesson and it is time to move on.

We REALLY have to beat PHILTHY big time the next time. Too much is at stake.

^^^^^

+1

Redskin in Canada wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:These guys are trying to make things work here

I agree brother. I already moved on and I am supporting MY WHOLE TEAM 100%

We disagree on a lot of things, but that's the common bond. Ray hates the Redskins, of course he's trashing them. He's not looking for anything out of this other then it's another chance to rip them.

RayNAustin wrote:To me ... the issue still remains the same. It was a bad decision to pull McNabb ... not iffy ... not slightly controversial ... down right poor judgement right at the moment Rex trotted onto the field. The results only confirmed what everyone else was thinking. Crush, fumble, 7 points for the Lions, and game over. This isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20 .. this is just poor judgement, and not the only example of it ... just the most recent.

There would not be a lingering issue had the coach come right out and say it was a gut call that didn't work, and not a good decision, rather than all of the excuses. That's what bothers me the most ... not that a coach would make a bad call ... that happens ... it's going to happen from time to time, because nobody is perfect.

I've got problems with someone who refuses to own up to their bad decisions, and take responsibility.

It wasn't just unfair to McNabb either ... it was unfair to put Grossman in that situation .... being less mobile than McNabb, he had no chance ... none. It was a disaster waiting to happen, and as it turned out, it didn't take long for that disaster to appear ... 1 play.

This is exactly how I feel.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:If Grossman doesn't want the ball any time under any circumstances he can get it, then he shouldn't even stop at his locker he should just keep going to his car, go home and not come back. I seriously doubt he felt that way though.

I think you took it out of context, or for how I understood the flow, you did. What wasn't fair was putting Rex for a non-injured McNabb in with less than 2 mins, no timeouts, and under duress as McNabb was all game, expecting positive results. Not that having Rex as a backup and expecting him to play under normal circumstances if your starter goes down.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:If Grossman doesn't want the ball any time under any circumstances he can get it, then he shouldn't even stop at his locker he should just keep going to his car, go home and not come back. I seriously doubt he felt that way though.

I think you took it out of context, or for how I understood the flow, you did. What wasn't fair was putting Rex for a non-injured McNabb in with less than 2 mins, no timeouts, and under duress as McNabb was all game, expecting positive results. Not that having Rex as a backup and expecting him to play under normal circumstances if your starter goes down.

I understand what you're saying Vet. But I do understand the flow. Grossman is a Vet who wants to be a starter. You have to want any chance under any circumstance you can get. I totally oppose the call. I am just saying from Grossman's side, it's not unfair. And I don't really see how it hurt him. He got blind sided on the first play, no one I've seen is bashing him for that. All the criticism's been rightly on Kyle for making the bone head call.

Kilmer72 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:nobody is "protected' here - everybody is accountable

Mike Shanahan is his father. You dont think that offers any type of job security?


There are a number of conflicts that could possibly arise.


Mike may not go as hard on his son as he would another coordinator? Mike may go too hard on his son? Mike may not overrule his sons play calls when he feels necessary? Mike may not tweek the game plan as he normally would?

From Kyles side,
Kyle subconciously does not have to worry about job security. So this can either provide piece of mind and allow him to concentrate better on the offensive game plan?

Or Kyle may not work as hard because he does not have to worry about losing his job.

Either way working with your own son affects the way you make your descisions. Try and tell me its not true. Every father out there knows how this is. Either you go too hard or too soft. Or somewhere in the middle. Either way it is a conflict of interest.

Important game descisions are influenced by Mike and Kyles relationship. That is the bottom line.

Most human beings don't know there limits until they are pushed to it and past it. Part of exceeding your limits in performance is a fear of losing your job.

I have worked with friends and family many times. You always get treated better and can get away with much more. Dont care what people say. Father and son love each other. It gets in the way. The man held Kyle in his arms when he was a baby. Give me a break there is always a conflict of interest with family and work.

I agree .... a father & son team doesn't mean it can't be wildly successful, but it sure does pose MAJOR issues if success is elusive.

Dad & Son are now a team ... and you can bet your last dollar that McNabb and every other body on offense will be thrown under the bus before you see Kyle's body there.

So we're going to live or die by the coaching talents of those two inseparable men ....

Unfortunately, they haven't demonstrated impeccable wisdom in their handling of players or their decision making in strategy.

Haynesworth and McNabb are just the most visible ..

One could argue that it was a mistake to revamp the entire defensive philosophy ... when adding a solid free safety and moving Landry back to his natural position of SS would have netted the best results, allowing them to focus on offensive talent, where it was needed the most.

That would have tailored the defense to the personnel ... avoided the Haynesworth fiasco ... and provided McNabb with better talent to work behind.

As for McNabb .... you get what you get with him .... it's rather foolish to expect to make any significant changes to his fundamentals ... or change his game in significant ways at this stage in his career. There is more than enough data on him to know what you're getting ... and you run with that by tailoring the offense to take advantage of his strengths ... not try and tweak him at the same time he's expected to learn a new system, new teammates, new coaches, etc, while playing behind a line that can't block ANYBODY.

Frankly, I've heard about as much as I care to about cardiovascular issues from Shanahan .... go be a freaking aerobics instructor, or drop the cardio act.

Thank you. I have and many other have stated it. What drives me crazy is trading for mcnab...That is a win now philosophy. If you want to win now then why revamp the defense knowing it (personnel)isn't suited for it?


Things might and probably will work out lets see.

Well, I was and still am in favor of the trade for McNabb ... he's not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning ... but he's a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, and that's something we haven't had in a long time.

Some of the critics from Philly have raised legitimate issues .. he is streaky, and tends to throw too many balls into the dirt. But the payoff with him is his leadership and ability to make big plays at critical times, and has done this over an extended period of time. So you take the bitter with the sweet ... and I know of nobody else out there that was better or available than McNabb. And he easily has 2-3 more good years left in the tank.

What we don't need is an arrogant staff that thinks their system is more important than the players .... as happened to the Redskins defense in 2006 when they took a nose dive after letting a handful of key players leave over the course of the 2004/2005 timespan that bit them in the rear in 2006. Remember? They let Smoot go (after trading Bailey), then Ryan Clark, Antonio Peirce ... including the mishandling of Arrington which ultimately led to the firing of the linebacker's coach. Both starting corners in 2004 gone in 2005, followed by the starting safety ... and middle linebacker .... THAT was why he defense took a nose dive in 2006. Greg Williams got a big head, and thought he could plug in replacement players and not miss a beat. He was wrong.

Systems don't win football games ... players do. And the professional athlete is a complex, psychologically fragile entity that runs on emotion and confidence ... confidence in himself and in those around him. The last thing you want from your coaches is to act in a manner that negatively impacts, or undermines either one ... and any coach in any sport that is worth his salt understands that, first and foremost. Even good QBs know this ... when a receiver drops an easy catch, a good QB will go right back to him soon after, to maintain that confidence.

Now, if you have a player that is refusing to comply with coaching directions ... or a player that is not expending maximum effort ... sitting them down may be the only way to correct such a situation. But that is far from the situation that occurred on Sunday. That decision to pull McNabb with the game on the line is in DIRECT OPPOSITION to reason you traded for him in the first place, and most certainly did inject negative emotions and impact confidence ... and is something that will linger in the back of his mind ... and in the minds of other players the next time the Redskins are faced with coming from behind to win a game. And if you think that this won't be the case, you just don't understand the psychology of the mind. McNabb, if he lives to be 100, will remember being pulled in that last 2 minutes, and watching from the sideline.

Now will this negatively affect his performance for the rest of the year? Maybe, maybe not ... he's been down this road before and has absorbed a lot of criticism over the years in Philly, and has still performed. But you have to ask the question ... if McNabb does indeed have a propensity to choke in the "Big Games", as is the feeling in Philly ... how much of that came from the constant reinforcement of those negative thoughts and emotions from the Philly fans, players and coaches?

I liken this to golf .... why is it that when faced with a wide open fairway off the tee, you can hit the long drive straight down the middle ... but when faced with a tight fairway ... trees lining one side ... water on the other, so many hit a bad shot, and wind up exactly where they don't want to be? It's all in that tiny space between the ears. The moment you let those negative thoughts of the trees and the water invade your mind, the chance of taking a confident, fearless swing all but vanishes, along with your chances of a desirable outcome.

And it happens to everyone ... it works the same way with everyone ... from the weekend warrior to the PGA Tour Pro. That's why those island greens, surrounded by water find so many balls swimming .... a pro could stand there and zero in on a green from 130 yards out, and can hit that green 100 times out of 100 .... (they're actually unhappy if they aren't inside 10 ft, from that distance) ... but surround the green with water, and they all breathe a sigh of relief just to be anywhere on the green and dry.

When you see "momentum" shifts in football games, it's this collective confidence of positive emotions and feelings that are taking over on one side, with negative emotions taking over the other side.

Confidence and success are as inseparable as a chicken and an egg. You gotta have one, if you want the other. And ANYTHING that negatively affects confidence compromises the possibilities of success. This is why there is almost unanimous opinion that pulling McNabb was not just a bad decision ... but a blatantly bone headed thing to do. Nobody was offering draft picks to trade for Rex Grossman, and at the beginning of the year, do you think ANYONE said oooooh ... watch out for the Redskins, they just signed Rex Grossman?

Now, dismissing the specific negative psychological affects of that decision itself, what you also end up with is legitimate doubt regarding the wisdom of the coaching staff to make future decisions. I mean, if they can be that wrong about something that is fundamentally recognized as dramatically faulty decision making ... what confidence is there that they'll get the more nuanced decisions right in the future?

It's a very legitimate question.

I couldn't really be bothered reading that but from what I've seen recently I don't agree with what you've posted at all

I'm looking forward to Mike and Kyle helping this franchise get back on track offensively

@Ray,

Again, I agree with you 100%. But one of the things that alot of people miss are the details. You covered those details in speaking about the psychology of the modern athlete. One of the things that is so interesting to me is that not only does this coach have an ego but how out of touch he appears to be with exactly what you pointed out. A coach worth his salt would take those factors into consideration and adapt according.

I remember listening to Lavar and Dukes the day or day after Devin Thomas was waived. Lavar talked about why this kid with so much physical ability was even given a shot and how they made it appear that he couldn't "get it". He's big and fast. How much is there to get in telling Devin, "on this play, go long"...? Not every receiver that came through this league was a scholar. Heck, the not on RMoss was his aptitude coming out of Marshall and look at his numbers.

Dockery.... Another one. What is the real reason why this dude is in street clothes? He couldn't have done any worst than Lichenstieger has done but yet he remains in street clothes.

The shuttling of OL on the right side. You eight weeks in. You shouldn't be doing that.

And finally, no mention on Radio or t.v. has called this new regime to task on why would you take a veteran group of guys who rated in the 10 the past three seasons in defense out of a 4-3 and switch them to a 3-4??? That switch alone with this group, IMO, cost this team at least two losses. Plus, you have leverage with Albert by staying in the 4-3 because his excuse would have been taken away about mandatory's and ota's. You still move "Dirty 30" to his natural position. But in the 3-4, they've limited the pass rush and have made London ordinary and looking old. If it were me, the only change I would have made to the defense would have been to put Orakpo on his knuckles next to Albert and moving Landry to his natural spot. You still have enough in the players you got now with Daniels, Wilson, Gholston, Alexander to be versatile and do the do.

Lastly..... What has Shanny done post Elway???? And why did the guys that helped him build that zone blocking OL come with him????

roybus14 wrote:@Ray,

Again, I agree with you 100%. But one of the things that alot of people miss are the details. You covered those details in speaking about the psychology of the modern athlete. One of the things that is so interesting to me is that not only does this coach have an ego but how out of touch he appears to be with exactly what you pointed out. A coach worth his salt would take those factors into consideration and adapt according.

I remember listening to Lavar and Dukes the day or day after Devin Thomas was waived. Lavar talked about why this kid with so much physical ability was even given a shot and how they made it appear that he couldn't "get it". He's big and fast. How much is there to get in telling Devin, "on this play, go long"...? Not every receiver that came through this league was a scholar. Heck, the not on RMoss was his aptitude coming out of Marshall and look at his numbers.

Dockery.... Another one. What is the real reason why this dude is in street clothes? He couldn't have done any worst than Lichenstieger has done but yet he remains in street clothes.

The shuttling of OL on the right side. You eight weeks in. You shouldn't be doing that.

And finally, no mention on Radio or t.v. has called this new regime to task on why would you take a veteran group of guys who rated in the 10 the past three seasons in defense out of a 4-3 and switch them to a 3-4??? That switch alone with this group, IMO, cost this team at least two losses. Plus, you have leverage with Albert by staying in the 4-3 because his excuse would have been taken away about mandatory's and ota's. You still move "Dirty 30" to his natural position. But in the 3-4, they've limited the pass rush and have made London ordinary and looking old. If it were me, the only change I would have made to the defense would have been to put Orakpo on his knuckles next to Albert and moving Landry to his natural spot. You still have enough in the players you got now with Daniels, Wilson, Gholston, Alexander to be versatile and do the do.

Lastly..... What has Shanny done post Elway???? And why did the guys that helped him build that zone blocking OL come with him????

Exactly...I agree and with Ray on this but....Even though we have "Franchise Quarterback" Mcnab how come we can't seem to pull off a common short pass and eat the clock when we do not have a running game that we are used to here in Washington? It seems to me that some blame must be put on him at some point. I realize he is getting pummeled but he can still get off a long pass and is doing well at that. Those passes are and should be hit or miss 50/50 the short should be closer to the 100 mark. From what I am hearing he isn't really smart as in quarterback smart. I heard they (Philly) had to retard the offense so he could run it. I am not giving him so much hell as I am our coaches. I am thinking make it so he can be the best he can be and even then he is going to miss throws over and under and so forth.

roybus14 wrote:I remember listening to Lavar and Dukes the day or day after Devin Thomas was waived. Lavar talked about why this kid with so much physical ability was even given a shot and how they made it appear that he couldn't "get it". He's big and fast. How much is there to get in telling Devin, "on this play, go long"...? Not every receiver that came through this league was a scholar. Heck, the not on RMoss was his aptitude coming out of Marshall and look at his numbers.

Devin hasn't resurfaced anywhere so why aren't the other 31 teams seeing this talent that Shannahan didn't give a chance? It's still too early to tell, but it seems like it was the correct decision

roybus14 wrote:Dockery.... Another one. What is the real reason why this dude is in street clothes? He couldn't have done any worst than Lichenstieger has done but yet he remains in street clothes.

This guy is a back up if not out of the league next year. At least he is giving a young dude that sucks a chance to play rather than an old dude that sucks. Who knows, if there is enough improvement, we may not need to address the position next year.

roybus14 wrote:The shuttling of OL on the right side. You eight weeks in. You shouldn't be doing that.

If you know who Pat Kirwin is, he actually thinks that there will be a time when there will be situational tackles in the league. It's not the case here, but I thought it was interesting. Obviously, Brown is either not healthy enough or they over rated his talent after the injury. I put this mistake on Bruce, but we shall see if it works out of not.

roybus14 wrote:And finally, no mention on Radio or t.v. has called this new regime to task on why would you take a veteran group of guys who rated in the 10 the past three seasons in defense out of a 4-3 and switch them to a 3-4??? That switch alone with this group, IMO, cost this team at least two losses. Plus, you have leverage with Albert by staying in the 4-3 because his excuse would have been taken away about mandatory's and ota's. You still move "Dirty 30" to his natural position. But in the 3-4, they've limited the pass rush and have made London ordinary and looking old. If it were me, the only change I would have made to the defense would have been to put Orakpo on his knuckles next to Albert and moving Landry to his natural spot. You still have enough in the players you got now with Daniels, Wilson, Gholston, Alexander to be versatile and do the do.

I actually think this defense is better than last year. I know yards against is much worse but the intensity and just that gut feeling that they will pull it out in the end is there. Like the goal line stop against the Bears, or all the takeaways. I never felt that way about a defense we have had in the last ten years. I love watching it and once the offense catches up, It'll be lights out with the right personel

roybus14 wrote:Lastly..... What has Shanny done post Elway???? And why did the guys that helped him build that zone blocking OL come with him????

Softball...Oh nothing but a 91-69 record with the Bronco's with 4 post season appearances and 1 championship game appearance.

The architect of the ZBS is Alex Gibbs. I believe he quit the Seahawks a month ago and I asked this same question at that time. Maybe they make the change next year. One thing though, teams no longer use JUST th ZBS or JUST angle blocking. Most use both. Alex does as well

Most organizations avoid this kind of problem: it's called nepotism.

They avoid it because: 1. family can get in the way of profesional decision-making and 2. it sends all kinds of wrong messages to the other employees.

But hey we had Marty's son on the coaching staff, as well as Gibbs'.

Kilmer72 wrote:

roybus14 wrote:@Ray,

Again, I agree with you 100%. But one of the things that alot of people miss are the details. You covered those details in speaking about the psychology of the modern athlete. One of the things that is so interesting to me is that not only does this coach have an ego but how out of touch he appears to be with exactly what you pointed out. A coach worth his salt would take those factors into consideration and adapt according.

I remember listening to Lavar and Dukes the day or day after Devin Thomas was waived. Lavar talked about why this kid with so much physical ability was even given a shot and how they made it appear that he couldn't "get it". He's big and fast. How much is there to get in telling Devin, "on this play, go long"...? Not every receiver that came through this league was a scholar. Heck, the not on RMoss was his aptitude coming out of Marshall and look at his numbers.

Dockery.... Another one. What is the real reason why this dude is in street clothes? He couldn't have done any worst than Lichenstieger has done but yet he remains in street clothes.

The shuttling of OL on the right side. You eight weeks in. You shouldn't be doing that.

And finally, no mention on Radio or t.v. has called this new regime to task on why would you take a veteran group of guys who rated in the 10 the past three seasons in defense out of a 4-3 and switch them to a 3-4??? That switch alone with this group, IMO, cost this team at least two losses. Plus, you have leverage with Albert by staying in the 4-3 because his excuse would have been taken away about mandatory's and ota's. You still move "Dirty 30" to his natural position. But in the 3-4, they've limited the pass rush and have made London ordinary and looking old. If it were me, the only change I would have made to the defense would have been to put Orakpo on his knuckles next to Albert and moving Landry to his natural spot. You still have enough in the players you got now with Daniels, Wilson, Gholston, Alexander to be versatile and do the do.

Lastly..... What has Shanny done post Elway???? And why did the guys that helped him build that zone blocking OL come with him????

Exactly...I agree and with Ray on this but....Even though we have "Franchise Quarterback" Mcnab how come we can't seem to pull off a common short pass and eat the clock when we do not have a running game that we are used to here in Washington? It seems to me that some blame must be put on him at some point. I realize he is getting pummeled but he can still get off a long pass and is doing well at that. Those passes are and should be hit or miss 50/50 the short should be closer to the 100 mark. From what I am hearing he isn't really smart as in quarterback smart. I heard they (Philly) had to retard the offense so he could run it. I am not giving him so much hell as I am our coaches. I am thinking make it so he can be the best he can be and even then he is going to miss throws over and under and so forth.

That's a good question ... and did you see the graphic put up during the game that showed the difference between Philly's system and Kyle's system? Philly ... the progression was 1) short 2) medium 3) long ... in Kyle's system it's reversed 1) long 2) medium 3) short.

For years, Donovan WAS the Philly offense, and it was based on quick reads and quick hitting plays to the WRs, and Westbrook out of the backfield was a big portion of their offense ... remember? It was this short game that set up the long plays. Tell me .. are we running screen plays? Do we even have a passing game that is designed for a back out of the backfield ... except hot reads?

So here we have a QB that is learning a new system which reverses the progression he's been used to for his entire career ... he's playing behind a line that is WORSE than the leaky line that played last year for whatever reason ... and that is a fact ... this year's line has struggled to run block and pass block ... and even with McNabb's mobility and ability to avoid sacks, we are on pace for as many or more sacks than last year. A less mobile QB (like Campbell) would have been sacked more than McNabb has so far, which would prove the line is playing worse.

(Now, all of that seems to fall on deaf ears here ... the same ears that claimed that QBs (Campbell) need at least two years in a system before expecting them to be able to perform well.)

So the question really should be .. does the system provide the flexibility to adapt to a 1st progression 2nd progression ball control passing game strategy, with outside routs designed to clear those underneath areas. The other question is with this o-line is unable to produce consistent running lanes, play action is way less effective, and if the pass pro is poor, you aren't forced to rush 5 and 6, which allows you to play soft zones with LBs guarding the short possession stuff. It all revolves around the line, and they've been poor across the board, run and pass.

The fact remains that in Houston, there was no running game either (30th) ... they lived and died by the pass. And right now, we don't have the pass pro to be so imbalanced toward the pass, and we don't have that BEAST like Andre Johnson that can over power D-backs in a possession type passing attack ... we've got Moss and AA, both small guys ... Moss still has it, and AA is coming on .. but neither are going to be that big possession type receiver that Kyle had in Houston. So I think what we see here is a forcing of a philosophy that doesn't have the personnel to execute it. And a level of inexperience or stubborn arrogance that is unable or unwilling to adapt and change to suit the skills of your players

The revelations that the Shanahans haven't been enamored with McNabb going way back to pre-season tells me that these two guys are freaking nuts. And I think that Kyle has been in his father's ear for a while ... I don't believe that this decision to pull McNabb was a spur of the moment decision ... I think it's been a topic of discussion between Kyle and Mike, and I must say that if these two have convinced themselves that Rex Grossman is more capable of running this offense than Donovan McNabb, I cannot maintain an ounce of trust in either one of them.

Does anyone other than Mike and Kyle believe such a patently absurd fantasy? I cannot find a single individual that would entertain that idea for a fleeting second.

So, that explains why the decision was made to pull McNabb, but I am absolutely dumbfounded that such an incompetent decision could be made by either Shanahan, but we saw it ... we heard the excuses that made no sense ... so consequently, since the reasons given make no sense, something else is going on there, and it HAS TO BE coming from Kyle. He's in charge of the offense, The ONLY other possibility is that Dad is looking over Kyle's shoulder, and telling him ... "hey ... you've got to be tough ... and you've got to demand that players practice full speed if you want to be successful". One of those two situations must be taking place.

In either case, it's totally nuts ... and I just see a major storm on the horizon. Here you have McNabb ... the best QB we've had around here for a long time .... he's a good guy ... a class act ... he's a leader ... the team has rallied around him and trust him ... and he says he wants to re-sign here and finish his career here .... and the Shanahans want to toss that away for Rex freaking Grossman? The Redskins cannot allow this father and son team cart blanche to alienate McNabb and the locker room with this foolishness.

If Snyder has half a brain, he'll intervene before the situation deteriorates to the unfixable point .... I would not allow a coach ... whatever their name is or their resume, to derail this relationship with NcNabb. We simply do not have a viable alternative at the moment, nor one in sight for the foreseeable future.

I just don't have a clue as to what either Kyle or Mike Shanahan are thinking .... I don't think they are thinking.

RayNAustin wrote:... I just don't have a clue as to what either Kyle or Mike Shanahan are thinking .... I don't think they are thinking.

I'm not sure about you guys but, I just don't have the .... never mind



Ray - it's not happening man!
these guys are trying to do the best they can and even though you know better, we are who we are - let it go, please

btw - I am going to stay with your BS for ever and ever - bring it on

Do we even have a passing game that is designed for a back out of the backfield ... except hot reads?

Do we have someone of Westbrook's caliber healthy and on the roster? Exactly what running back do you want them to throw the ball too?

The revelations that the Shanahans haven't been enamored with McNabb going way back to pre-season tells me that these two guys are freaking nuts.

It's pretty clear that Andy Reid and the Eagles weren't all that enamored anymore with McNabb either. Does that make them "freaking nuts" too?

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The revelations that the Shanahans haven't been enamored with McNabb going way back to pre-season tells me that these two guys are freaking nuts.

It's pretty clear that Andy Reid and the Eagles weren't all that enamored anymore with McNabb either. Does that make them "freaking nuts" too?

If they decided to go with Rex Grossman instead .... YES ... YES they would be nuts.

Now KNOCK off the smart arse nonsense .... if you're going to say it ... then have tha stones to say it .... go ahead ... say "I think Rex Grossman gives the Redskins the best chance to win".

You were after all a big fan of Campbell until that ton of bricks fell on you. Don't think I forgot about that.

So say it already ... Rex is your man. Go ahead? What are you waiting for?

SkinsJock wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:... I just don't have a clue as to what either Kyle or Mike Shanahan are thinking .... I don't think they are thinking.

I'm not sure about you guys but, I just don't have the .... never mind



Ray - it's not happening man!
these guys are trying to do the best they can and even though you know better, we are who we are - let it go, please

btw - I am going to stay with your BS for ever and ever - bring it on

What's not happening? Are you telling me that the Benching of McNabb for Rex Grossman didn't actually happen ? It's just an hallucination of mine brought about by my skipping my meds for a few days?

Whew ... man, thanks. That was a nightmare. And it seemed so real!!!

RayNAustin wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The revelations that the Shanahans haven't been enamored with McNabb going way back to pre-season tells me that these two guys are freaking nuts.

It's pretty clear that Andy Reid and the Eagles weren't all that enamored anymore with McNabb either. Does that make them "freaking nuts" too?

If they decided to go with Rex Grossman instead .... YES ... YES they would be nuts.

Now KNOCK off the smart arse nonsense .... if you're going to say it ... then have tha stones to say it .... go ahead ... say "I think Rex Grossman gives the Redskins the best chance to win".

You were after all a big fan of Campbell until that ton of bricks fell on you. Don't think I forgot about that.

So say it already ... Rex is your man. Go ahead? What are you waiting for?

I don't think that Rex is better than McNabb. But at the same time I think that McNabb's days of being an upper tier qb are over. He isn't a top 10 qb anymore and he wont perform at that level for us or any other team. Right now he looks like an over the hill qb that is on his last legs.

RayNAustin wrote:If they decided to go with Rex Grossman instead .... YES ... YES they would be nuts.

Now KNOCK off the smart arse nonsense .... if you're going to say it ... then have tha stones to say it .... go ahead ... say "I think Rex Grossman gives the Redskins the best chance to win".

You were after all a big fan of Campbell until that ton of bricks fell on you. Don't think I forgot about that.

So say it already ... Rex is your man. Go ahead? What are you waiting for?

Let's turn this around, shall we?

RayNAustin wrote:If Snyder has half a brain, he'll intervene before the situation deteriorates to the unfixable point .... I would not allow a coach ... whatever their name is or their resume, to derail this relationship with NcNabb. We simply do not have a viable alternative at the moment, nor one in sight for the foreseeable future.

Go on, seriously. Have the stones to say it. "Dan Snyder is the right man to run this football team."

What are you waiting for? Something other than a false equivalency?

Paralis wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:If they decided to go with Rex Grossman instead .... YES ... YES they would be nuts.

Now KNOCK off the smart arse nonsense .... if you're going to say it ... then have tha stones to say it .... go ahead ... say "I think Rex Grossman gives the Redskins the best chance to win".

You were after all a big fan of Campbell until that ton of bricks fell on you. Don't think I forgot about that.

So say it already ... Rex is your man. Go ahead? What are you waiting for?

Let's turn this around, shall we?

RayNAustin wrote:If Snyder has half a brain, he'll intervene before the situation deteriorates to the unfixable point .... I would not allow a coach ... whatever their name is or their resume, to derail this relationship with NcNabb. We simply do not have a viable alternative at the moment, nor one in sight for the foreseeable future.

Go on, seriously. Have the stones to say it. "Dan Snyder is the right man to run this football team."

What are you waiting for? Something other than a false equivalency?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I never really thought that MS handled the AH situation well, but then again, he was attempting to set a precedent to the other players and personally, I think that this precedent is one of the reasons that the team has changed their attitude. Besides, I hate the fact that 1 month ago everyone was praising MS for how he was dealing with AH, and now that things aren't going well, people (some of the same people) are ridiculing him for it. I just don't get it. If I were in MSs' shoes, I honestly wouldn't have treated AH the same way (then again, I am a fairly diplomatic person), but the coach needs to be the coach. I personally think that he went about it in the wrong way -- and basically went on an ego-trip, but whats done is done. He now needs to get on the same page as his players. It is always the ultimate question as a coach: is it better to be feared than loved? IMHO, it is a little of both. I think that MS would prefer to be feared.

I never thought that highly of the Shanahan vs Haynesworth thing and the way Shanahan handled it, but I did admit that we didn't know and never would know everythign that went on. I also know that Haynesworth didn't help the situation with his actions.

In hindsight between Shanahan vs Haynesworth, benching Dock, and now benching McNabb (and even the Thomas cut makes me think), I'm wondering how much is totalitarian vs for the good of the team.

What's sad is that what's best for the team is also what's best for the coach, but he can't see that because his ego get's in the way sometimes. I was one of the people who said he should have backed off Haynesworth before the season began. I understand Al brought it on himself, but as a coach you have to look to motivate players each in their own way. You can't put yourself before the team, which is what he's doing. I can understand wanting discipline, but you have to temper that with common sense, and know when to bend.

RayNAustin wrote:Yeah, I can't watch it ... when I click on it, it comes back with "missing plugin" but doesn't say WHICH PLUGIN !!!

And I've watched them before .. and I can watch the archived videos.
Pisses me off

The missing plugin is a valid reason for benching McNabb.