The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

RayNAustin wrote:All year, there have been a laundry list of excuses for why the Redskins had difficulty scoring. From receivers too short or injured, to a banged up O-line that couldn't pass protect or run block, to conservative play calling, to dropped passes, and stupid penalties. And during that time, all of it was subjective opinion, as there was no frame of reference to confirm or refute these claims. But all of a sudden, one element is changed (the QB) and boom...the receivers got taller and their hands got better, and the O-line remembered how to block. Unbelievable. And I do mean UNBELIEVABLE..

RayNAustin wrote:And I'm sure that if we lose to the Cowboys Sunday, that will be all the proof the JC fan club needs. And if we win, it will be because of home field advantage, or because the Cowboys laid down, or because the defense played better or TO was not in the game. And all of those points could be argued, and probably will be.

RayNAustin wrote:Watch Campbell closely. He is so calm, he exudes a lethargic appearance. Never get's too excited..or angry... Then take a close look at someone like Favre or Manning. After a gazillion TD passes in his career, Favre still races down the field jumping up and down and pumping his fists like a rookie who just threw his very first TD pass. Manning, probably the most active and animated QB's before the snap is constantly checking and making adjustments in response to the defensive alignments at the line of scrimmage. He has that southern draw in his voice, but he is no "B". He's an "A" all the way.

Brady is the same. Watch him head butt a lineman on the sideline sometime. He appears very deliberate and calm, but the guy has a fire burning, and he attacks defenses which is why he's been so incredibly successful.

RayNAustin wrote:I think some of the things that have made campbell look good to so many this season is the no huddle offense that he runs pretty well at times. And he seems to be able to move the ball very well between the 20's. However, inside the opponents 40 he begins to struggle, which is why we have had to settle for so many FG's instead of TD's.

There is a reason for all of this, and I think John Manfreda points out those reasons very well.

Campbell though somewhat improved in this area, still tends to stare down his intended target which helps clue defenses.....and he doesn't go through his progressions quickly enough (holding the ball too long, allowing pressure to reach him). Combine that with a naturally slower release, and it becomes pretty clear why he struggles in the redzone.

Between the 20's, he can get away with this because defenses seem to play him a little soft, respecting his strong arm, which opens up those short and intermediate routs a bit. But when the field gets shorter (inside the 40, and especially inside the 20) this slowness catches up with him.

So this isn't really a matter of not knowing the offense well enough, or an experience issue IMO, but more about his mental quickness along with physical mechanics. More experience may help mask those things a bit, but will not eliminate these natural tendencies.

This shows up in his personal nature.....very calm, serious, slow, deliberate type personality that may be an asset insofar as responding to pressure situations (everyone talks about how cool he is in the heat of battle) but is a double edged sword in that slow and deliberate execution of plays is NOT what you really want in your QB. You want smart, quick reads and reactions, and the ability to quickly identify coverages and get the ball out of your hands.

The trouble is, as people, we are who we are. If you're a type A personality, that is what you are. If you're a type B, you'll always be a "B", and no amount of coaching and training will change that aspect of your nature.

Watch Campbell closely. He is so calm, he exudes a lethargic appearance. Never get's too excited..or angry... Then take a close look at someone like Favre or Manning. After a gazillion TD passes in his career, Favre still races down the field jumping up and down and pumping his fists like a rookie who just threw his very first TD pass. Manning, probably the most active and animated QB's before the snap is constantly checking and making adjustments in response to the defensive alignments at the line of scrimmage. He has that southern draw in his voice, but he is no "B". He's an "A" all the way.

Brady is the same. Watch him head butt a lineman on the sideline sometime. He appears very deliberate and calm, but the guy has a fire burning, and he attacks defenses which is why he's been so incredibly successful.

I don't see this in Jason Campbell. It's just not his nature. I see the same type thing going on with Eli Manning. Manning, in his 4th full season now has not changed much at all, statistically as a QB. What Eli is now is what you're going to get, and what you will continue to get.

A week later, ST dies. If we make the playoffs or even the Super Bowl, I will attribute everything we accomplish to his death.

welch wrote:

A week later, ST dies. If we make the playoffs or even the Super Bowl, I will attribute everything we accomplish to his death.

The coach. He makes a difference. Either the coach pulls the team together and gets them to play above their individual talents, or he doesn't.

Simple comparisons: Gibbs and Turner. Lombardi and Graham.

brad7686 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:I think some of the things that have made campbell look good to so many this season is the no huddle offense that he runs pretty well at times. And he seems to be able to move the ball very well between the 20's. However, inside the opponents 40 he begins to struggle, which is why we have had to settle for so many FG's instead of TD's.

There is a reason for all of this, and I think John Manfreda points out those reasons very well.

Campbell though somewhat improved in this area, still tends to stare down his intended target which helps clue defenses.....and he doesn't go through his progressions quickly enough (holding the ball too long, allowing pressure to reach him). Combine that with a naturally slower release, and it becomes pretty clear why he struggles in the redzone.

Between the 20's, he can get away with this because defenses seem to play him a little soft, respecting his strong arm, which opens up those short and intermediate routs a bit. But when the field gets shorter (inside the 40, and especially inside the 20) this slowness catches up with him.

So this isn't really a matter of not knowing the offense well enough, or an experience issue IMO, but more about his mental quickness along with physical mechanics. More experience may help mask those things a bit, but will not eliminate these natural tendencies.

This shows up in his personal nature.....very calm, serious, slow, deliberate type personality that may be an asset insofar as responding to pressure situations (everyone talks about how cool he is in the heat of battle) but is a double edged sword in that slow and deliberate execution of plays is NOT what you really want in your QB. You want smart, quick reads and reactions, and the ability to quickly identify coverages and get the ball out of your hands.

The trouble is, as people, we are who we are. If you're a type A personality, that is what you are. If you're a type B, you'll always be a "B", and no amount of coaching and training will change that aspect of your nature.

Watch Campbell closely. He is so calm, he exudes a lethargic appearance. Never get's too excited..or angry... Then take a close look at someone like Favre or Manning. After a gazillion TD passes in his career, Favre still races down the field jumping up and down and pumping his fists like a rookie who just threw his very first TD pass. Manning, probably the most active and animated QB's before the snap is constantly checking and making adjustments in response to the defensive alignments at the line of scrimmage. He has that southern draw in his voice, but he is no "B". He's an "A" all the way.

Brady is the same. Watch him head butt a lineman on the sideline sometime. He appears very deliberate and calm, but the guy has a fire burning, and he attacks defenses which is why he's been so incredibly successful.

I don't see this in Jason Campbell. It's just not his nature. I see the same type thing going on with Eli Manning. Manning, in his 4th full season now has not changed much at all, statistically as a QB. What Eli is now is what you're going to get, and what you will continue to get.

What is Todd doing better in the red zone exactly? He isn't making tight throws. Lets take the Vikings game for example, the TD pass to ey occurred when he was WIDE open, which only the vikings would be able to pull off against our only legit receiving threat. Then there was the TD pass to moss, which was just a lob that Moss, for the first time all season, actually went up and made a play on. Are you saying that Jason's release is so slow that he can't lob a ball into the end zone? If i was Jason, I wouldnt trust moss to go up and make a play considering he has done nothing but make Jason and the entire team look like an idiot all season. You can't continue to ignore the competition Todd has played. I'm not saying that Todd can't be a good Qb, he has been very poised. But until he plays someone that makes him make tight throws into good coverage, which jason has done all year, you cannot make any argument suggesting he is doing better than campbell. Period.

John Manfreda wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:I think some of the things that have made campbell look good to so many this season is the no huddle offense that he runs pretty well at times. And he seems to be able to move the ball very well between the 20's. However, inside the opponents 40 he begins to struggle, which is why we have had to settle for so many FG's instead of TD's.

There is a reason for all of this, and I think John Manfreda points out those reasons very well.

Campbell though somewhat improved in this area, still tends to stare down his intended target which helps clue defenses.....and he doesn't go through his progressions quickly enough (holding the ball too long, allowing pressure to reach him). Combine that with a naturally slower release, and it becomes pretty clear why he struggles in the redzone.

Between the 20's, he can get away with this because defenses seem to play him a little soft, respecting his strong arm, which opens up those short and intermediate routs a bit. But when the field gets shorter (inside the 40, and especially inside the 20) this slowness catches up with him.

So this isn't really a matter of not knowing the offense well enough, or an experience issue IMO, but more about his mental quickness along with physical mechanics. More experience may help mask those things a bit, but will not eliminate these natural tendencies.

This shows up in his personal nature.....very calm, serious, slow, deliberate type personality that may be an asset insofar as responding to pressure situations (everyone talks about how cool he is in the heat of battle) but is a double edged sword in that slow and deliberate execution of plays is NOT what you really want in your QB. You want smart, quick reads and reactions, and the ability to quickly identify coverages and get the ball out of your hands.

The trouble is, as people, we are who we are. If you're a type A personality, that is what you are. If you're a type B, you'll always be a "B", and no amount of coaching and training will change that aspect of your nature.

Watch Campbell closely. He is so calm, he exudes a lethargic appearance. Never get's too excited..or angry... Then take a close look at someone like Favre or Manning. After a gazillion TD passes in his career, Favre still races down the field jumping up and down and pumping his fists like a rookie who just threw his very first TD pass. Manning, probably the most active and animated QB's before the snap is constantly checking and making adjustments in response to the defensive alignments at the line of scrimmage. He has that southern draw in his voice, but he is no "B". He's an "A" all the way.

Brady is the same. Watch him head butt a lineman on the sideline sometime. He appears very deliberate and calm, but the guy has a fire burning, and he attacks defenses which is why he's been so incredibly successful.

I don't see this in Jason Campbell. It's just not his nature. I see the same type thing going on with Eli Manning. Manning, in his 4th full season now has not changed much at all, statistically as a QB. What Eli is now is what you're going to get, and what you will continue to get.

What is Todd doing better in the red zone exactly? He isn't making tight throws. Lets take the Vikings game for example, the TD pass to ey occurred when he was WIDE open, which only the vikings would be able to pull off against our only legit receiving threat. Then there was the TD pass to moss, which was just a lob that Moss, for the first time all season, actually went up and made a play on. Are you saying that Jason's release is so slow that he can't lob a ball into the end zone? If i was Jason, I wouldnt trust moss to go up and make a play considering he has done nothing but make Jason and the entire team look like an idiot all season. You can't continue to ignore the competition Todd has played. I'm not saying that Todd can't be a good Qb, he has been very poised. But until he plays someone that makes him make tight throws into good coverage, which jason has done all year, you cannot make any argument suggesting he is doing better than campbell. Period.

Your right about ey being open but if Campell was Qb he wouldn't have found him. Campell is slow with his reads and yes his release is so slow they would have closed on him.

Your right about ey being open but if Campell was Qb he wouldn't have found him. Campell is slow with his reads and yes his release is so slow they would have closed on him.

SkinsJock wrote:Campbell will be fine - he might not have as much of a future in the NFL if he were on another team, but he will be a really good QB because he has Joe Gibbs as his coach.

Gibbs "finds" people and then gets more out of them than any other coach in the NFL.

Can you imagine if Joe Gibbs were coaching the NE Patriots, they would be a lot better team under Gibbs than BB, that is for sure and they would never have to resort to cheating either

SKINS#1 wrote:Based on Performance TC is the Starter until JC can win the Starting position based on his Performance not Potential.

As of today the contest is not close. I would love to see JC become the Starting QB because of his Potential but Performance wins games.

SKINS#1 wrote:Based on Performance TC is the Starter until JC can win the Starting position based on his Performance not Potential.

As of today the contest is not close. I would love to see JC become the Starting QB because of his Potential but Performance wins games.

1niksder wrote: ... he is a free agent after this season.

Irn-Bru wrote:First you sneak in rash assumptions, and now you're using dirty rhetorical tricks.


Like here:

RayNAustin wrote:To suggest that points scored is not a relevant or reasonable way of grading a QB's play is just mind numbing, and preposterous.

Nice spin. Who said anything about points scored not being relevant? You are not representing anything I said accurately.

Now, you can show me the error of this critique by citing at least one or two authorities who say that "points scored on offense" is in any way the litmus test of a quarterback's play. I have honestly never heard anyone use that as a the benchmark until this thread—you don't find it curious that you use that stat only and call every other statistic twisted or spun?

So are you willing to pay him starter money? Because he is a free agent after this season.

Irn-Bru wrote:First you sneak in rash assumptions, and now you're using dirty rhetorical tricks.


Further, look at every Joe Gibbs team that has ever played, and compare the Sept. through Oct. record to the Nov. and December record. The Redskins play better late in the season, period.

The quarterback is the only variable?

Champsturf wrote:IMHO, Collins finishes the season and Campbell gets the nod next year, with Collins backing him up. Obviously, he'd have to get a fair contract, which I think the Skins would be willing to do.

Cut Brunell, and start the grooming process all over again.

RayNAustin wrote:

Champsturf wrote:IMHO, Collins finishes the season and Campbell gets the nod next year, with Collins backing him up. Obviously, he'd have to get a fair contract, which I think the Skins would be willing to do.

Cut Brunell, and start the grooming process all over again.

Why does he "get the nod" ? Even if Collins takes us to the SB?

This is that written in stone "free pass" given to Campbell that I can't understand.

Go with who wins. Right now, that is Collins. And he's EARNED that chance, waiting for 10 years, and preparing each week of those 10 YEARS as if he were the starter.

I find this whole love affair with Campbell, and this AUTOMATIC right off of Collins a slap in Collins face. Collins deserves much better from all of the true Redskin fans.

Champsturf wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

Champsturf wrote:IMHO, Collins finishes the season and Campbell gets the nod next year, with Collins backing him up. Obviously, he'd have to get a fair contract, which I think the Skins would be willing to do.

Cut Brunell, and start the grooming process all over again.

Why does he "get the nod" ? Even if Collins takes us to the SB?

This is that written in stone "free pass" given to Campbell that I can't understand.

Go with who wins. Right now, that is Collins. And he's EARNED that chance, waiting for 10 years, and preparing each week of those 10 YEARS as if he were the starter.

I find this whole love affair with Campbell, and this AUTOMATIC right off of Collins a slap in Collins face. Collins deserves much better from all of the true Redskin fans.

Maybe, just maybe BECAUSE IT WAS MY OPINION. I'm NOT the coach and will be happy with either as starter. Anyone, I mean ANYONE, as long as it's NOT Brunell.

The fair thing to do...and the smart thing is to say....who ever gives the Redskins the best chance to win starts next year.....be that Campbell or Collins.