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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:36 pm
by Cappster
lowtharofthehill wrote:I like the way that the redskins draft and the way they trade picks for veterans.
The redskins use this plan and it hasnt worked. How many other teams do the same as them... really they are the only team that does this to the extent they do it.
However, every team that uses all its draft picks doesnt play well and they dont always win the superbowl.
For example from 2002-2006 the team with the most draft picks is the tennesee titans with 50. During that time period they are below the nfl average for wins in a season. They have one of the worst overall teams in the league.
All this shows is that drafts do not make teams most teams place a great value in drafting and only one team wins the superbowl a year. It doesnt mean that a team becomes good or bad totally through the draft.
Later round draft picks usually dont make a team.
If you look at the actual numbers of amount of players drafted vs wins there is almost no corelation i know that people talk a big game about winning through the draft but that is just because every team is forced by the nfl to use its draft picks to aqcuire players.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/0 ... raft/5047/this shows how many players and what positions were taken by each team and how many games each team won during that span of time.
We have had the fewest draft picks and only 4 teams have a worse record. That doesn't make a strong arguement for your case. In a side note, we are also below the nfl average of 40 wins with 33 wins.
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:03 pm
by Deadskins
The Hogster wrote:Either way, I like bringing in a LG, just didn't want to start giving up early 4th round picks for an aging vet. Early 4th (which is what I hope we have this year) is only a few slots away from being a 1st day pick.
You do know that to have an early pick in a round means that you did poorly the previous season? Basically, you are wishing us a poor season this year, so that next year's fourth round pick is closer to the first day of the draft? Am I understanding you correctly? I hope we pick dead last every season, because that means we won the SB the year before, but that's just the way I roll.
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:08 am
by jmooney
All these issues with how the skins draft? We could be the Detroit Lions and blow 3 first round picks on Wide recievers in the last 4 years and still no QB. That being said, ld like to see us take Oline in the first 2 rounds for the next 2 years , more of a guarantee than a 4th or 5th to get some quality and an early starter
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:37 am
by Redskin in Canada
Irn-Bru wrote:The difference between teams that draft well consistently and those that don't are 1 or maybe 2 breakout players a year. After the first few rounds, it's all about looking for the diamond in the rough.
Ravens do not seem to have much of a problem with that perilous task.
For those of you diminishing the importance of lower round picks, I would say that they are not EQUALLY valuable to all teams. Clearly,
- a team with better scouting and personnel department has an edge;
- a team with a PLAN and VISION to the future has an edge;
- a team that knows how to package those lower picks to move up in the Draft has an edge.
Low-draft picks are useful.
ey was acquired that way (in a package of lower picks for a higher one). But all of you knew that.
So, what was the topic of teh thread? Oh, yes. We lost a draft pick, AGAIN.
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:02 pm
by SkinsJock
As big a deal as it is to losing a draft pick the FO did a good job this off season in not giving any away back when all of us were hoping we could "improve" in certain areas.
Now a situation has occurred and we could have just sat and not given away any picks and just taken our chances but the coaches asked for and made a deal that IMO at least helps us a lot more than it "hurts" us
There will always be some here who want to remind us of
all the mistakes that have been made and foir them despite what has transpired the past 6 months - this FO will never be given any kudos no matter what restraint is plainly visible to a few of us.
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:11 pm
by Fios
Redskin in Canada wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:The difference between teams that draft well consistently and those that don't are 1 or maybe 2 breakout players a year. After the first few rounds, it's all about looking for the diamond in the rough.
Ravens do not seem to have much of a problem with that perilous task.
For those of you diminishing the importance of lower round picks, I would say that they are not EQUALLY valuable to all teams. Clearly,
- a team with better scouting and personnel department has an edge;
- a team with a PLAN and VISION to the future has an edge;
- a team that knows how to package those lower picks to move up in the Draft has an edge.
Low-draft picks are useful.
ey was acquired that way (in a package of lower picks for a higher one). But all of you knew that.
So, what was the topic of teh thread? Oh, yes. We lost a draft pick, AGAIN.
New thread, same opinion ... yes, the Redskins have no plan
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:02 pm
by SkinsFreak
The more I think about it, the more I really like this trade.
First, if we would've entered the season with the experiment of Wade and Puch, and it failed, we'd all be asking why they didn't see this coming and do something about it in the preseason. Now our line is complete with no holes.
Second, Kendell is a big, strong and stout guard, and has a bit of a mean streak to him. He is also a great run blocker. I'll bet Rabach, Kendell and Samuels will blow up some big holes on that side. Also, Thomas is arguably one of the best pulling guards in the league and if he pulls to that side and joins Samuels, Kendall and Rabach, well I think they could part the Red Sea.
Third, I'll bet the RB's are extremely happy about this as well. They are the very ones who will benefit from the addition of Kendall. We were all a bit insecure about that spot on the line and I'm sure the RB's were too. I think Kendall is actually a better run blocker than Dock and our running game should improve immensely. I would also guess that Rabach and Samuels are far more confident with Kendall beside them.
Well done on this one, FO.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:33 pm
by 1niksder
Jets fanscan't be happy after last night
The Jets provided plenty of fodder for the critics who bashed GM Mike Tannenbaum for trading the disgruntled Kendall, a 10-year starter, to the Redskins for a fifth-round pick in the 2008 draft. Kendall's replacement, rookie Jacob Bender, was simply overwhelmed in his first start at the NFL level, surrendering a sack and at least two pressures. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson wasn't much better, also allowing a sack.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:34 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Part of me likes this trade. It all hinges on his health and if he can give us 3 good years.
Its going to take him a year to learn the offense and a year to gell. He won't really show what he can do until 2008.
Health and his age are the big factor.
Can he last until a 'Heyer' at G is found?
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:38 pm
by Deadskins
1niksder wrote:Jets fanscan't be happy after last night
The Jets provided plenty of fodder for the critics who bashed GM Mike Tannenbaum for trading the disgruntled Kendall, a 10-year starter, to the Redskins for a fifth-round pick in the 2008 draft. Kendall's replacement, rookie Jacob Bender, was simply overwhelmed in his first start at the NFL level, surrendering a sack and at least two pressures. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson wasn't much better, also allowing a sack.
Looks like we've picked their pocket yet again. Gotta love having that minor league team to develop tomorrow's stars.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:54 pm
by rick301
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Part of me likes this trade. It all hinges on his health and if he can give us 3 good years.
Its going to take him a year to learn the offense and a year to gell. He won't really show what he can do until 2008.
Health and his age are the big factor.
Can he last until a 'Heyer' at G is found?
I'm hoping that his demeanor, attitude and 10 years pro experience will speed up the "gell"-ing on the line. It will probably take longer to learn all the nuances of the playbook and the system.
If he can't get it down in a 24 hour day - he'll need to work nights on it.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:56 pm
by HardDawg
I think this was a great pick up for us... Anyone we draft in the 4th round won't make the team anyways....You know how well Vinny does his homework!
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:00 pm
by Jake
1niksder wrote:Jets fanscan't be happy after last night
The Jets provided plenty of fodder for the critics who bashed GM Mike Tannenbaum for trading the disgruntled Kendall, a 10-year starter, to the Redskins for a fifth-round pick in the 2008 draft. Kendall's replacement, rookie Jacob Bender, was simply overwhelmed in his first start at the NFL level, surrendering a sack and at least two pressures. Left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson wasn't much better, also allowing a sack.
Dang, I was rooting for the Mayo kid to step up in his first start. I imagined he did good considering they won but I guess not.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:05 pm
by ChocolateMilk
yeah i really dont see anything wrong with this... we gave up a 5th round pick for a guy who'll start right away andhelp protect JC blind side. it just depends how long he wants to play.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:13 pm
by SkinsFreak
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Part of me likes this trade. It all hinges on his health and if he can give us 3 good years.
Its going to take him a year to learn the offense and a year to gell. He won't really show what he can do until 2008.
Health and his age are the big factor.
Can he last until a 'Heyer' at G is found?
Kendall has started 156 games out of 158 in
total. What evidence do you have that makes health an issue for Kendall? And please don't say his age. I realize that anyone older than 22 seems old to you and anyone over the legal drinking age is still stuck in the 80's.
At this particular and critical juncture, I would rather have battle tested player at 34 than some spring chicken that still needs years of maturity and development. If we were looking to add depth for the future, then fine, I'd rather have the young inexperienced player. But we needed someone to fill a rather large hole
now.
I also don't think it's going to take a seasoned vet a full year to learn the offense and to gell with teammates, especially at the guard position. If he was a TE, WR or a QB, then yes, a year may be needed. But a guard should be able to learn his assignments much quicker than most other positions. So much faster that I'll bet Kendall starts the season at guard, only 2 weeks after his arrival.
Block right, block left, pull right or pull left. He should already know what running plays require a guard to bump the DT and then attack a LB. Also, he will already be familiar with d-line stunts and LB blitz packages and schemes. It's really not rocket science at that position.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:03 pm
by The Hogster
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:Like Molinaro, Wilson, or Lefotu? It's not just that the Skins haven't made any moves toward acquiring youth; there have been picks used there. But a combination of having only a few low-round picks along with their inability to have found talent when they did pick young OL's is what created the situation.
Yes they have tried but failed. How do we remedy that?
People say that the draft isn't a sure thing, I understand that. But how is it that certain teams are able to draft well consistently? I've always felt that we need to mimic and learn from those clubs. What are they doing different, how can we incorporate that? Who can we hire from within those scouting departments to lead ours in the same direction? It's a copy-cat league, why not copy this? Money isn't an issue, right?
I believe our issues in the past have been with the scouting. Things seem to have gotten better this year. Only time will tell.
I think one thing is that you will notice that its a cycle. In my opinion, teams that are consistently good in the draft are also often the teams that are consistently good teams.
In that I mean, there are several variables that make this a self fulfilling type thing. First, bad teams are often drafting at positions of need. They take a player that is a great college player at a position where they totally suck. If the team is very bad in general though, that player is less likely to develop to their full potential if they are thrown into the fire and asked to move mountains. They are consequently considered busts...etc.
If the team is good, they are often drafting guys to replace veterans that they anticipate will sign elsewhere or retire in 1 or 2 years. That player can come in, develop and play but with a good overall team, they are better positioned to suceed. I.e. a TE on a good offense can shine, or an LB on a good defense can excell...while that same player may struggle on a bad team.
I think a combination of variables has hampered us at times. Our philosophy to build through FA and the 1st day of the draft has left us in situations where we have a great team on paper (i.e. a lot of stars who start) and then nothing behind them. We find out the hard way that your entire roster must be good to win games.
Add that factor in with the fact that we've had some bad teams here and there, and you end up with Michael Westbrooks, Heath Shulers Taylor Jacobs...etc.
Now, I think the Skins has been good in the 1st day of the draft...we've jsut seemed to turn the corner on the idea that you can draft good players on the second day, who can help the team on ST and eventually start. The Skins have gotten exposed when our starters get hurt, or fatigued...we have had a bigger dropoff in talent than have the consistently good teams.
Thats my take on it. But I really do believe we are a pretty deep team this year, everywhere but O'Line...but not many teams have the luxury of depth at O-Line.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:03 pm
by CanesSkins26
What evidence do you have that makes health an issue for Kendall?
Well if you look at the stats that you posted, you would see that Kendall has only started a full season's worth of games once in the past 6 seasons. He hasn't missed major time but it appears that he misses a couple of games every season. So injury isn't a huge concern, but it is something to keep in mind with Kendall.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:05 pm
by PulpExposure
SkinsFreak wrote:Kendall has started 156 games out of 158 in
total. What evidence do you have that makes health an issue for Kendall?
I agree with you on what you say, but to be fair, that statistic you're citing is misleading. He's missed 14 games over the past 7 seasons, averaging to 2 missed games a year. That's relatively significant.
And I expect to get 2 years out of him; better than you really honestly could expect from a 5th rounder.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:31 pm
by SkinsFreak
I stand corrected. I did look at that rather quickly and misinterpreted the G's and GS's.
Nevertheless, I still don't feel like it's significant enough to draw major concern. I'm sure the coaches took all that into consideration and I don't think he's suffered any major injuries.
Then again, maybe that's why the Skins injected that '80% games to be played' clause when offering compensation. I guess you just never know with injuries in this game.
After O-Line Re-evaluation, Kendall to Start
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:53 pm
by 1niksder
New Redskin Pete Kendall has risen up the team's depth chart quickly.
Kendall is already penciled in as the team's starter at left guard on the team's preseason depth chart. Mike Pucillo is the backup followed by Todd Wade.
Kendall is expected to see his first action as a Redskin this Thursday night against the Jacksonville Jaguars in the team's preseason finale.
Head coach Joe Gibbs said Kendall would start the game.
"We want to try and get Pete in there and let him get some playing time," Gibbs said. "We have a number of guys we're looking at, but I think the number one goal is to get Pete in there and get him some work.
"We got him from the standpoint in that we think he's a real vet who can really step in there and do some good things for us."
It appears the Redskins are backing off starting Wade at left guard.
Wade, who has played right tackle his entire 7-year NFL career, had transitioned to left guard last offseason. He was expected to take over for Derrick Dockery, who departed the Redskins via free agency last March.
Wade was 6-8, so he had to work on his leverage to fend off defensive tackles. But he has missed two preseason games due to a shoulder injury.
WWe talked to Todd the other day," Gibbs said during an interview on Redskins Radio earlier this week. "The good thing about Todd--he is so conscientious--we knew that when we moved him to guard it was something that was going to be difficult to do.
"He used to tell me, 'Coach, I'm 6-8, I'm a tackle.' But he loved the opportunity [to play guard] and he came in here excited about it. He certainly worked extremely hard.
"I think we haven't hurt ourselves at all [trying Wade at guard]. We know he can play tackle any time, and we'll continue to work him some at guard. That'll be a real plus for us because when it comes down to the active roster, it's important that guys can play multiple spots."
Kendall has immersed himself in the Redskins' offensive playbook since joining the team as part of an Aug. 23 trade with the New York Jets.
He said his biggest challenge could be developing cohesion with his linemates, including left tackle Chris Samuels who has been slowed by a knee injury.
"That'll be a bigger challenge than learning the assignments and X's and O's," he said. "But one thing about football--it's not rocket science. The schemes and assignments are essentially the same from system to system and team to team.
"It's a matter of how to communicate with the guys around you so that they know what you know. That only comes with repetitions."
Kendall was in the Jets' training camp this preseason, so he is in football shape.
But he will have had only one Redskins practice before Thursday's preseason game at Jacksonville.
He is expected to start alongside center Casey Rabach and rookie left tackle Stephon Heyer, who is subbing for Campbell.
"My goal is to be effective as soon as possible," Kendall said. "The hope is that's by Week 1. I think that between spending time with Coach [Joe] Bugel and studying the plays, I'll pick up assignments fairly quickly. It's just a matter of understanding the nuances of it the way the guys around me do."
Redskins.com
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:36 pm
by BnGhog
I think Kenell has dont a great job. Our line is still banged up, but Pete has done a good job on that side. I think he did a good job against the Pats too.
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:25 pm
by frankcal20
The Left side is about the only thing that halfway works. If the right side were 50% successful, it would do tons for our running game. Guys overload too much.
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:05 pm
by skinsrule84
Wow was this a great trade afterall!
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:14 pm
by Deadskins
skinsrule84 wrote:Wow was this a great trade afterall!
We've had a lot of success over the past several seasons calling players up to the big leagues from our farm team in NY.
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:04 pm
by Fios
JSPB22 wrote:skinsrule84 wrote:Wow was this a great trade afterall!
We've had a lot of success over the past several seasons calling players up to the big leagues from our farm team in NY.
We really need to press them to develop a big receiver and an athletic defensive end, I'm kinda disappointed in their progress on those fronts.