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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:37 am
by COZ
Irn-Bru wrote:COZ wrote:It's all in what you believe in and I believe in animal rights and since Portis stepped up and basically stated dogs don't count then I believe he doesn't count....
I don't think animals have the same rights as humans, so I guess that means (by the same logic) that I have no rights.
Any and everyone that eats meat or drinks milk that cows didn't consent to giving falls into the same category. . .
The same goes for anyone living in a house that was constructed over a plot of land where worms were living before being mercilessly crushed. What would we think if there had been children living there, who instead were crushed?
(CLL and his flyswatter, too. No more rights for him.
)
You logic is seriousy flawed so let's take this point by point...
I never stated animals have the same rights as humans but it would be a start.
Your opinion does not mean you have no rights or I want to deny you rights it simply means I think very little of you because of your opinion. Much as if I were to say kids suck, US sucks, or state some other opinion that you didn't care for.
We are all part of a food chain and we are meat eaters so we eat cows. If dogs were tasty to our society then we would eat dogs. However, when was the last time a farmer had two cows fight to the death or when they go to slaughter, they are beaten for days on end prior to the final blow? Yes cows die but not for barbaric entertainment or betting.
As to the worms - extreme and poor example but you are right - the world is unfair. However, I doubt that bulldozer operator took joy in digging up worms or destroying a habitat.
How's this - I think kids aren't as important as adults since they don't really bring anything to the table at such a young age. They shouldn't have any rights since they don't pay taxes, contribute to charities, or find cures for cancer. They are short, whiney, smelly and basically interupt my dinner by crying. We should tape small knives to their chubby little hands and have them fight it out. That would be entertaining.... Stupid and disgusting huh????
I gather from what you posted you are ok with abusing dogs because we abuse cows. What I am saying is the opposite - it's not ok to abuse dogs because we abuse cows.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:44 am
by COZ
SkinsFreak wrote:Hey COZ, do you honestly still think Portis is a fan of dog fighting and animal cruelty?
Yes I do... Usually the 1st thing out of a person's mouth is the truth as they see it and anything after that is purely spin to right the wrong.
I hope Portis wouldn't go out and abuse a dog but I believe he is ok with the concept of dog fighting and would be ok with attending an event and be ok with others that condone it.
What Portis said was "Leave Vick alone and let him do what we wants on his property with his property". That's a great thing until the activity becomes illegal. What if Vick was abusing 12 year olds? Would you still be ok with Portis's comments?
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:54 am
by JansenFan
Irn-Bru wrote:COZ wrote:It's all in what you believe in and I believe in animal rights and since Portis stepped up and basically stated dogs don't count then I believe he doesn't count....
I don't think animals have the same rights as humans, so I guess that means (by the same logic) that I have no rights.
Any and everyone that eats meat or drinks milk that cows didn't consent to giving falls into the same category. . .
The same goes for anyone living in a house that was constructed over a plot of land where worms were living before being mercilessly crushed. What would we think if there had been children living there, who instead were crushed?
(CLL and his flyswatter, too. No more rights for him.
)
bigot!
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:55 am
by Chris Luva Luva
COZ have you ever swatted a fly?
The issue with this ordeal is that it's not about the animals. Why are we mocking it and not taking it seriously? Because it's not about the animals.
When you break it down, we all feel that no animal needs to be uselessly harmed but ESPN doesn't care about that. They just want to excite people like you into a frenzy so you'll pump cash into their advertisers wallets.
Until Portis says, "Lets the dogs fight to the death", there isn't any concrete evidence that he seriously believes in the activity. You're reading into his words and trying to discern his true intentions just as we are.
* Goes to warm up leftover steak from dinner.
I will be cutting it with a knife.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:01 pm
by Irn-Bru
COZ wrote:I never stated animals have the same rights as humans but it would be a start.
Well, I think it would be impossible to realize and inconsistent to demand.
Your opinion does not mean you have no rights or I want to deny you rights it simply means I think very little of you because of your opinion. Much as if I were to say kids suck, US sucks, or state some other opinion that you didn't care for.
The reason I said that I must have no rights is because you said:
COZ wrote:It's all in what you believe in and I believe in animal rights and since Portis stepped up and basically stated dogs don't count then I believe he doesn't count....
Well, I also don't believe animals count (in the sense of having rights; I happen to love animals, though). So maybe Portis doesn't have rights but I do. . .
Secondly, you haven't really heard my opinion beyond my saying that I don't think animals have rights. Do you know what I mean when I say that? Do you know what I think rights are? Are you assuming that I must be okay with torture if I don't affirm "animal rights"?
You can dismiss my opinion if you want -- it doesn't bother me too much either way -- but you are doing so with very little in front of you.
We are all part of a food chain and we are meat eaters so we eat cows. If dogs were tasty to our society then we would eat dogs. However, when was the last time a farmer had two cows fight to the death or when they go to slaughter, they are beaten for days on end prior to the final blow? Yes cows die but not for barbaric entertainment or betting.
As to the worms - extreme and poor example but you are right - the world is unfair. However, I doubt that bulldozer operator took joy in digging up worms or destroying a habitat.
Well, we don't need to eat meat to thrive, so I don't see how the food chain is still a relevant justification for the merciless slaughter of hundreds of millions of farm animals every year.
That you're basing the right or wrong of
animal rights from a
human perspective (e.g., whether or not it is needed for humans, whether or not humans torture and enjoy it, etc.) tells me that there's something fishy about calling it "animal rights."
How's this - I think kids aren't as important as adults since they don't really bring anything to the table at such a young age. They shouldn't have any rights since they don't pay taxes, contribute to charities, or find cures for cancer.
This is exactly my criticism -- you can't base rights on how you feel about someone or something. . .it just doesn't make sense. Neither do rights come from a government benevolent enough to give them to you, nor do you earn them from paying taxes.
I gather from what you posted you are ok with abusing dogs because we abuse cows. What I am saying is the opposite - it's not ok to abuse dogs because we abuse cows.
I think animal abuse is inexcusable, personally. I think it takes a twisted mind to run a dog-fighting racket. But I don't think you should (or need to) base that moral case on natural rights. In my opinion, animal rights activists are making a mistake in doing so -- better to get things right than invent something to get what you want.
I will say this: you've inferred that I must be okay with torture based on what I've said, and you couldn't be further from the truth. Maybe you should give Clinton some clemency here before wishing another ACL tear on him.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:10 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Irn-Bru wrote:Maybe you should give Clinton some clemency here before wishing another ACL tear on him.
Or maybe a little bit of rehabilitation (if he truly feels that way) or forgiveness. I know that's rare nowadays but it's a good thing to do.
Coz, if you found out a child of yours was fighting dogs would you wish the same ACL tear on him?
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:44 pm
by UK Skins Fan
There are some posts in this thread that truly make me worry about the state of mind of some people. Hyperbole really isn't a very good replacement for reasoned debate.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:18 pm
by Fios
I am going to stab you with a cow
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:24 pm
by Countertrey
Coz, if you found out a child of yours was fighting dogs would you wish the same ACL tear on him?
More likely, he'd scold him harshly, and then apologize for his own brutal response. He'd then run upstairs and free the prisoners being unjustly held in his son's ant farm. No Miranda warning, don't you know?
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:36 pm
by SeanTaylorJr.
CP is an idiot for saying that, even if he thinks it, what an idiot...
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:45 pm
by Hooligan
Countertrey wrote:He'd then run upstairs and free the prisoners being unjustly held in his son's ant farm. No Miranda warning, don't you know?
I think people should mind their business. I'm from New Jersey. I know a lot of back roads that got the ant farm if you want to see it.
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:23 am
by UK Skins Fan
Fios wrote:I am going to stab you with a cow
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:06 pm
by Countertrey
Hooligan wrote:Countertrey wrote:He'd then run upstairs and free the prisoners being unjustly held in his son's ant farm. No Miranda warning, don't you know?
I think people should mind their business. I'm from New Jersey. I know a lot of back roads that got the ant farm if you want to see it.
Insect hating bastage! I hope you break your sweetbread.
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:45 pm
by 1niksder
Source claims Vick is a heavyweight in dog fightingSun, 27 May 2007 10:59:53 -0700Kelly Naqi, writing for ESPN.com, reports a confidential source says he's been involved in dog fighting for over 30 years and has trained and fought around 2,000 pit bulls. He was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world. "He's a pit bull fighter," the source said of Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys:' that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights." The source has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests. The source said Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going bring a nice sum of cash."
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:30 pm
by SkinsFreak
Regardless of what they might say in the media, I'll bet Bobby Petrino and Author Blank are now really regretting that they traded Matt Shaub to Houston. Vick may end up being suspended by the league sometime in the near future and the Falcons #2 QB is Joey Harrington.
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:07 pm
by Smithian
If Vick is suspended, then I would like to see the Redskins organization do something with Portis and Samuels.
I'd rather lose a game than know those sicks SOBs are out there even laughing about dog fighting.
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:56 pm
by Fios
Smithian wrote:If Vick is suspended, then I would like to see the Redskins organization do something with Portis and Samuels.
I'd rather lose a game than know those sicks SOBs are out there even laughing about dog fighting.
So they should suspend Portis for having an opinion and Samuels for laughing at said opinion?
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:56 am
by John Manfreda
Chris Luva Luva wrote:COZ wrote:John Manfreda wrote:Portis is a jerk, I hope he breaks his collar bone again. I have seen animals without jaws because of dog fighting. I hope Vick tears his ACL. I don't want to hear exscuses its common sense not to say what he said.
John - gotta agree with you here. Portis is a JERK and his comments were stupid and disgusting. I too hope he blows out something big time - perferably on the 1st play of the game. Bring in Betts and let him run while Portis becomes a footnote in the abysmal history of the Skins during the past decade.
His comments just re-affirm my decision not to renew my tickets this year. The Skins won't get anymore of my money. After 10 years of lame football, lame coaching (Gibbs is done), lame ownership, lame players with lame attitudes, etc... I am done with giving the Skins my money.
Portis's comments are akin to condoning child porno, wife beating, drunk driving, etc... Meaning, there is no redeeming value for these things and no one should be on board with it.
I'll always be a Skins fan in some sense but I'm not drinking the koolaid like many on this board who still claim Gibbs is GOD.
I think you wishing harm on anyone is just as disgusting as those who fight animals.
No its really not, its like rooting against somebody. Your not forcing these people to get hurt, ur not forcing these people to be deformed your just hoping they get what they deserve. Its not in any way to hope bad things happen to bad people like Portis or Vick. Vick is forcing animals to hurt themselves and Portis is sticking up for it by acting the way he is. Me hoping he gets hurt does not influence anything in Portis carrer, hoping Portis gets hurt and ends his carrer isn't bad at all because there is no action to what I do, sticking up for a disgusting act is an action and is bad. Me wanting Portis to get he shoulder injury again does not mean it will happen.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:58 am
by John Manfreda
Fios wrote:Smithian wrote:If Vick is suspended, then I would like to see the Redskins organization do something with Portis and Samuels.
I'd rather lose a game than know those sicks SOBs are out there even laughing about dog fighting.
So they should suspend Portis for having an opinion and Samuels for laughing at said opinion?
No there suspending him for embarassing the Redskins organazation.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:26 am
by SkinsFreak
A typical John Manfreda post.
John Manfreda wrote:Vick is forcing animals to hurt themselves and Portis is sticking up for it by acting the way he is.
Based on what you wrote, you obviously have no clue. Portis was NOT sticking up for dog fighting.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:18 am
by Chris Luva Luva
John Manfreda wrote:No its really not, its like rooting against somebody. Your not forcing these people to get hurt, ur not forcing these people to be deformed your just hoping they get what they deserve. Its not in any way to hope bad things happen to bad people like Portis or Vick. Vick is forcing animals to hurt themselves and Portis is sticking up for it by acting the way he is. Me hoping he gets hurt does not influence anything in Portis carrer, hoping Portis gets hurt and ends his carrer isn't bad at all because there is no action to what I do, sticking up for a disgusting act is an action and is bad. Me wanting Portis to get he shoulder injury again does not mean it will happen.
The fact that you tried to rationalize that, it really speaks volumes...
The year of unveiling continues.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:36 am
by Fios
There are people who post on this site that I simply do not read and/or reply to, people who embrace contrarian stances because that's all they know how to do.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:37 am
by Fios
Fios wrote:There are people who post on this site that I simply do not read and/or reply to, people who embrace contrarian stances because that's all they know how to do.
Yes you do, no they don't
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:40 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Fios wrote:Fios wrote:There are people who post on this site that I simply do not read and/or reply to, people who embrace contrarian stances because that's all they know how to do.
Yes you do, no they don't
No he doesn't and yes they do.
One of my favorites features as a regular user on GAF is the ability to add a user to your ignore list.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:04 pm
by John Manfreda
SkinsFreak wrote:A typical John Manfreda post.
John Manfreda wrote:Vick is forcing animals to hurt themselves and Portis is sticking up for it by acting the way he is.
Based on what you wrote, you obviously have no clue. Portis was NOT sticking up for dog fighting.
Its his dogs let him do with what he wants with it, he doesn't have to say it exactly, his actions made it clear, u have no clue I am just thinking about what Portis said with an unbiased opinion. Portis is scrum no matter what he does on the field.