The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

EA7649 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Did you read my post? I never said anything about Cousins; at all. I never said that RGIII was or was not a Shanahan or Snyder influenced pick.

No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.
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OMG! I always see sh$t about Griffen and Cousins with OldSchool. Even making subjects. There are more people bring the qb controversy, including a former qb from the redskins. RG3 has more of a ceiling and he showed his first year! Cousins had 3 chances last year and he didn't show he was a consistent above average qb.

So please STFU even the professionals bringing it up!!! Gruden is handling it great saying we already have a starter. If the starting qb is struggling in the regular season again, now that he's more healthy (I did think that cousins should have played the first few games of the season last year when RG3 clearly wasn't ready yet).

BUY SOME HATORADE!!!

2012? don't you understand what fools gold 2012 was? A option QB is not a viable 19 game NFL strategy.

Robert Griffin has a high QB ceiling only if you presume he can develop the ability to digest, process and decide at NFL speed. Thus far he has shown NO APTITUDE to do this whatsoever, absolutely none. He'll be a major bust if he doesn't start to grasp it. Every year colleges are full of quick option guys and guys with strong arms, occassionally they have both like Griffin but so what? Being able to handle mental part of game is rare ability and Griffin hasn't shown jack yet and its year 3 whether RG3Bots want to admit it or not.

OldSchool wrote:
2012? don't you understand what fools gold 2012 was? A option QB is not a viable 19 game NFL strategy.

Robert Griffin has a high QB ceiling only if you presume he can develop the ability to digest, process and decide at NFL speed. Thus far he has shown NO APTITUDE to do this whatsoever, absolutely none. He'll be a major bust if he doesn't start to grasp it. Every year colleges are full of quick option guys and guys with strong arms, occassionally they have both like Griffin but so what? Being able to handle mental part of game is rare ability and Griffin hasn't shown jack yet and its year 3 whether RG3Bots want to admit it or not.

Here you go again.

Heck, I am a skeptic. Your posts indicate something way beyond skepticism.

Thus far he has shown NO APTITUDE to do this whatsoever, absolutely none.

is completely ridiculous. Even your quote source C00ley disagrees with that - rather vehemently I might add.

OldSchool wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:If Griffin shows that he's going to be the QB that most knowledgeable people think he will be, he will be given every opportunity to be that QB no matter what Snyder, Allen or the Redskins media think

there's little doubt that he's adapting to a new style and the new offense - he's going to continue to get better

Most knowledgeable people? I don't think there is a consensus on Griffin's development. You believe Griffin is destined to become a great QB Robert Griffin, it is an article of faith for you and many others including Daniel Snyder but right now the only consensus regarding him is that he looked very uncomfortable and ineffective during this preseason. True believers like yourself are certain he'll improve and play well while a growing body of skeptics like me are nearly, not totally, but nearly convinced he'll never become a real NFL QB. Don't bother talking to me about 2012, if you don't understand that a option QB in the NFL is the very definition of Fools Gold than you are not a "knowledgeable person." They went to the option stuff in 2012 because he was ineffective running Shannys West Coast, now we have seen Griffin languish trying to run Gruden's. The Gruden version of a simplified RGIII training wheels offense will probably be revealed in Houston because Griffin seems too dense to run the real thing.

I normally don't see your posts but I did 'open' this .. it solidifies my opinion of you and your supposed position as a Redskins fan ...

I AM a Redskins fan and I am hoping that Griffin will adapt to the new offensive game plan that Jay and Sean plan to run here PLUS become a better NFL QB - nothing is a given but based on this kid's upbringing and what he has accomplished as an athlete, I think there's enough there to show that he has the desire to succeed in the NFL and to be the best he can be as a person

Griffin has indicated that he is making a huge effort to be a different type of QB than many saw in his college days and part of what we saw in 2012 - he is NOT going to be an 'option QB' or a 'read option QB' - Griffin is trying to become a better NFL QB and I think we'll see Jay and Sean take full advantage of his talents - his knowledge, his leadership, his arm strength, his 'touch', and his speed

you seem to almost want him to not succeed and you are a poor example of a fan

I'm looking forward to watching this kid develop into a good NFL QB - it will take time but it will happen

DarthMonk wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Being able to handle mental part of game is rare ability and Griffin hasn't shown jack yet and its year 3 whether RG3Bots want to admit it or not.

Here you go again.

Heck, I am a skeptic. Your posts indicate something way beyond skepticism.

Thus far he has shown NO APTITUDE to do this whatsoever, absolutely none.

is completely ridiculous. Even your quote source C00ley disagrees with that - rather vehemently I might add.

Yes. If anyone is wondering what blind adherence to a position against real evidence looks like, OldSchool's rants against Griffin are the place to look. He doesn't revise in light of fact; he doubles down.

It's ok to have concerns or skepticism, but damn!

Trolls are getting fed the buffet today!!

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
Did you read my post? I never said anything about Cousins; at all. I never said that RGIII was or was not a Shanahan or Snyder influenced pick. I never said that both hirings were or were not made by Snyder or Allen. I am merely responding to your post ---- written as fact by someone who appears to have first-hand knowledge of the situation --- in an effort to verify that you can, in fact, support your statements with such first hand knowledge.

That being said, I find it quite odd that Shanahan, when he knew he was going to be fired, benched RGIII in favor of Cousins. While I am not saying that this action supports the stance you incorrectly infer, I just find it interesting.

I also think you are a little naive to the draft process. The fact someone was taken in the same draft means very little when it comes to ownership influence. I am not saying that this is something Snyder does or doesn't do; but owners tend to be more interested in rounds 1-2 vs. 6-7....

No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.

Really??? Really??? Come on. Again, you literally need to learn to read what people write. I NEVER said I agreed with OldSchool. I never even referenced him. I was responding to YOUR STATEMENT. If I wanted to agree with OldSchool, I would responded to HIS STATEMENT. And ironically, I completely disagree with OS in that I believe RGIII to be FAR SUPERIOR to Cousins at the QB position.

My response was more questioning your FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE in that what you posted appeared in the form of FACT and not of opinion; therefore I wanted clarity that you did, in fact, have first hand knowledge. Something you have yet to respond to and most likely won't (which is most likely why you continue to divert the ACTUAL subject of my post).

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.

Really??? Really??? Come on. Again, you literally need to learn to read what people write. I NEVER said I agreed with OldSchool. I never even referenced him.

C'mon man, it was just two pages ago:

markshark84 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Changing the QB is in my opinion is Dan Snyder's decision, I think Snyder made it clear to Gruden when he was hired he was tasked with turning Griffin into a fully able NFL QB, giving the job to Cousins a Shanahan pick is not an option.

Agree. Danny will ultimately revert back to his meddling ways. He can't help it; egomaniacs rarely can.

^^^ OUCH!

SkinsJock wrote:
I normally don't see your posts but I did 'open' this .. it solidifies my opinion of you and your supposed position as a Redskins fan ...

I AM a Redskins fan and I am hoping that Griffin will adapt to the new offensive game plan that Jay and Sean plan to run here PLUS become a better NFL QB - nothing is a given but based on this kid's upbringing and what he has accomplished as an athlete, I think there's enough there to show that he has the desire to succeed in the NFL and to be the best he can be as a person

Griffin has indicated that he is making a huge effort to be a different type of QB than many saw in his college days and part of what we saw in 2012 - he is NOT going to be an 'option QB' or a 'read option QB' - Griffin is trying to become a better NFL QB and I think we'll see Jay and Sean take full advantage of his talents - his knowledge, his leadership, his arm strength, his 'touch', and his speed

you seem to almost want him to not succeed and you are a poor example of a fan

I'm looking forward to watching this kid develop into a good NFL QB - it will take time but it will happen

Well said and I don't always like what you have to type. Lets see how he does in the regular season. He is the BEST qb on the roster. And he does seem to always not want him to succeed.

To put it bluntly - we all need Griffin to become the NFL QB that we thought he was when we drafted him
we have not seen that yet - NOT in 2012 and certainly not last season
Jay and Sean will devise a plan for him to both bring him along and also make better use of his talents

sure, there's a chance he's not going to be able to make the transition - I just have a difficult time handling that

I think it will take time but I also will not be surprised if we do not see a huge improvement in the way he plays in Houston, 9/7


I also am very grateful for not having to see the stupid posts that some here make - LOVE that 'friends/foes' button

SkinsJock wrote:To put it bluntly - we all need Griffin to become the NFL QB that we thought he was when we drafted him
we have not seen that yet - NOT in 2012

I get what you're saying, he wasn't polished in 2012 and benefited a lot from a good offensive scheme that took the league off guard. But still, he was ROTY, and really had the best season you could hope for out of a rookie QB (sans injury).

We don't have a lot of data on RG3. Last year, the knee brace clearly hampered him. So we have one season where he did well but was not great at making quick decisions and moving through progressions. There is definitely hope he will greatly improve over the next few years.

Unfortunately for the Redskins Griffin has only just started to learn how to be an NFL QB - this will take time of course but he's an exceptional athlete and he's bright - I don't think it's going to take very long

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.

Really??? Really??? Come on. Again, you literally need to learn to read what people write. I NEVER said I agreed with OldSchool. I never even referenced him.

C'mon man, it was just two pages ago:

markshark84 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Changing the QB is in my opinion is Dan Snyder's decision, I think Snyder made it clear to Gruden when he was hired he was tasked with turning Griffin into a fully able NFL QB, giving the job to Cousins a Shanahan pick is not an option.

Agree. Danny will ultimately revert back to his meddling ways. He can't help it; egomaniacs rarely can.

So I guess you are saying you have ABSOLUTELY NO FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE??????

And are you in politics? If not, you should be. You've deflected every question I have asked that would back you into a corner and brought in things that were never even being discussed in an effort to diverge from the actual point. And we can't fail to mention taken statements out of context.

I assume, in typical politician fashion, you will either not answer the multiple-asked question, divert by replying to another point within my response totally unrelated to the actual conversation, or bring up something else totally unrelated altoghether....... I'll get a kick out of reading it.

markshark84 wrote:So I guess you are saying you have ABSOLUTELY NO FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE??????

And are you in politics? If not, you should be. You've deflected every question I have asked that would back you into a corner and brought in things that were never even being discussed in an effort to diverge from the actual point. And we can't fail to mention taken statements out of context.

I assume, in typical politician fashion, you will either not answer the multiple-asked question, divert by replying to another point within my response totally unrelated to the actual conversation, or bring up something else totally unrelated altoghether....... I'll get a kick out of reading it.

You're the one who keeps trying to change the topic by setting up some kind of straw man about whether or not my saying that RGIII was also a Shanny pick meant I was was in the room on draft day. I think it's funny that you used the emoticon in your response to my previous post. You don't seem to know when to stop embarrasing yourself.

Countertrey wrote: ^^^ OUCH!

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:So I guess you are saying you have ABSOLUTELY NO FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE??????

And are you in politics? If not, you should be. You've deflected every question I have asked that would back you into a corner and brought in things that were never even being discussed in an effort to diverge from the actual point. And we can't fail to mention taken statements out of context.

I assume, in typical politician fashion, you will either not answer the multiple-asked question, divert by replying to another point within my response totally unrelated to the actual conversation, or bring up something else totally unrelated altoghether....... I'll get a kick out of reading it.

You're the one who keeps trying to change the topic by setting up some kind of straw man about whether or not my saying that RGIII was also a Shanny pick meant I was was in the room on draft day. I think it's funny that you used the emoticon in your response to my previous post. You don't seem to know when to stop embarrasing yourself.

Countertrey wrote: ^^^ OUCH!

Nice. You went with none of the above and instead reverted to name calling without making a single point.

Change the topic????? My first and only question to you was whether you had first hand knowledge of the factual statement you provided in your intial post to me. Is that not true? That WAS the topic. Instead of directly answering the initial question, you shuffled around it by infering opinions and saying my posts were absurd based on assumptions YOU made that I NEVER SAID ---- see "This has to be your most absurd post ever. Are you really saying that Cousins was a Shanahan pick at the same time you're saying that RGIII was not?" ---- I never said or inferred that (and the fact I used the word REVERT as it related to Danny's involvement should have proved otherwise.... ). I merely agreed with OS as it related to Danny and interfering moving forward. Is this not true? Had I wanted to agree with Cousins and RGIII, I would have said so as I did with Danny and his meddling.

Your posts are getting more absurd. I look forward to seeing what incorrect information you will infer about my posts next.......

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:-drinking

LOL. Nice contribution. As always, I love the analysis you provide.

I actually like the fact you disagree...... or just didn't understand (more likely). After all, you're opinions/predictions/etc. have consistently been the most inaccurate on the entire forum.

The hell you say?
I was just enjoying the show- no need to get your panties twisted.

Disagree about what?

You asked a rhetorical question and are still waiting for an answer?

Here ill end it... YES. Deadskins and I were both in the war room, dont tell anyone ok?

No ones perfect. I try to provide skins info and my opinons on things I guess, u can certainly add me to the "foe" list and block out my posts.

OK - 4 days to go ....

I'm hoping we see a good performance from Griffin

I'll be OK if he shows that he's going to be able to make the transition from the way he played at Baylor ... AND ... that he is getting comfortable running the new offense

I am a little concerned about the O line being able to protect him but I think the game plan will take that into account

I think you will see lots of roll outs. O-line is our weakness and D-line is their strength. Jay's strength is supposed to be making a game plan for each opponent and is not a "system" guy. We will see.

FLWSkin wrote:I think you will see lots of roll outs. O-line is our weakness and D-line is their strength. Jay's strength is supposed to be making a game plan for each opponent and is not a "system" guy. We will see.

That is one thing I really am looking forward to seeing week to week. Knowing how Gruden isn't a system type of coach should be interesting. I know he did this successfully in Cincinnati, hopefully it works here as well.

Im a little worried a out that pass rush vs our o line.. but then I think about ours vs theirs and smile..

Fitzpatrick does have the ability to play great games about 1/3 of the regular season. Let's just hope that this isn't one of those games.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I'm a little worried about their pass rush vs our o-line.. then I think about ours vs theirs and smile

+1 - that's why I think the better QB will help control the outcome