The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

+1

OH NO you're spoiling all the fun

we need to change things, we don't need to know why - fire everybody

and

IF that doesn't work ....... fire them too - we'll get it right .... eventually


the best suggestions are those that are for getting rid of all the problems here NOW

I mean that would create a mess but it would be a diversion from the losing


Obama just got 4 more years after the mess he made of the first term - bring him in - he can get this thing turned around in 4 years

and think of the pomp and circumstance on the sideline each week

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

That's because you used the logic.

After reading this thread, I think the problem with the skins is that they are located in DC......

I'm surprised people haven't started campaign slogans for either keeping MS or getting rid of him -- because the lobbying efforts have already begun.....

It's the typical DC reaction --- knee jerk. I live in Houston and while I don't consider myself a Texans fan, they are a good example. Back in 2010 people thought that the team was underperforming and it was because of Kubiak. After all up to that point he only had 1 winning season in 5. However, the fans didn't over-react (yes, a small minority did, but most didn't; they trusted their owner). They kept Kubiak and they went 10-6 on an injury riddle team and are now 7-1. Kubiak is now Houston royalty.

That said, we need to take a step back and consider the alternatives to MS/BA --- something people commonly DON'T do in most knee-jerk decisions.... If we were to fire MS, I would be worried who Danny would hire. BA would also most likely be gone as well. There are 2 options:
(1) A young, wet behing the ears HC that Danny "believes in" --- like Zorn. These HC just want a shot and are willing to allow Danny to stick his stupid head into football and ruin the team. And based on prior experience, we all know how that turns out. We have a 0% chance of having a winning season if Danny boy has any control over football operations. Danny would also likely hire another GM Vinny puppet -- who knows, I actually could see him hiring Casserly. Yes, Snyder IS that dumb.
(2) A seasoned SB winning coach like MS or Gruden. These are coaches that have the influence to exclude as a prerequisite Danny from football operations. Right now, that is basically what we have. Most of these coaches want major $$$ (which doesn't matter to us) and full control. This type of control can be a bad thing --- like a dictatorship. The HC would also hire the GM, which would be a puppet of the HC.

We aren't going to get a guy like Tomlin because (i) Danny is too stupid to see talent in a young up and coming coach, and (ii) Danny will screw up the football operations stuff and will handicap them into failure.

Regardless, this all ties back to the unfortunete truth that we have the worst owner in football. He lacks adequate leadership and is a horrendous decision-maker. What I fear is that if MS/BA doesn't do it for us (and it appears as such), the cycle will just start all over again.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

That's because you used the logic.

haha. Seriously though! If people are looking for a franchise to compare us to, try Cleveland or Oakland. Endless coaching changes. Franchises QBs who didn't pan out. Can't build through the draft because you traded away all of your picks for an old Carson Palmer. The idea that somebody is going to come in here and fix it all in 2.5 years is crazy.

I say:

FIRE BRUCE ALLEN NOW!!!!!!!!

Bring Vinny Cerrato and Daniel Snyder back as a combo to the Front Office!

FIRE MIKE SHANAHAN NOW!!!!!!!!

I am sure Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier have learned their lessons and deserve a second chance too.

ANYTHING and ANYONE would be better than what we have!!!

































Really?

These crowd has made mistakes with:

player selection (e.g., Macnab),
the timing for the change to a 3-4 defensive scheme,
game plans and plays at times, and
some press conferences.

but they have also made good choices with:

player selection (e.g., RGIII, Morris, etc),
the change to a better 3-4 defensive scheme (not its timing),
game plans (e.g., New Orleans) and plays at times, and
some press conferences.

I rather have 0.500 than 0.000.

Please, guys. REMEMBER the past.

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

That's because you used the logic.

haha. Seriously though! If people are looking for a franchise to compare us to, try Cleveland or Oakland. Endless coaching changes. Franchises QBs who didn't pan out. Can't build through the draft because you traded away all of your picks for an old Carson Palmer. The idea that somebody is going to come in here and fix it all in 2.5 years is crazy.

+1

We trade away our future year after year. It's like Feb. 2nd in DC every offseason. RGIII turned out to be a successful trade, but we could have REALLY used that first rounder on a DB, OL, or DL.... and our 2014 1st rd pick also......

This is not a quick fix. It takes time to clean up the incredibly large dump Danny dropped on this franchise. If this team wants to be successful over the long term --- they need to do it like the others and build from the draft. This FO needs to set a precident that moving forward they will not trade ANY draft picks --- NONE.

SkinsJock wrote:WHY do we HAVE TO get rid of the DC now?

WHY can this decision not wait until after the season is over?


Should we also get rid of ALL the other coaches AND players that are not doing their jobs?

what is wrong with some of you guys?

Okay what's the difference in getting rid of Hasbeen now and allowing the new DC to use the remaining games to gauge who stays and who go's? Isn't is stupid to waste a whole season then having to hire a DC and then guess who will fit his system rather than getting ahead of the curve now? I mean really what has Jim Hasbeen honestly done to warrant being here the remainder of the year? And please don't go with any B.S. about him turning the defense around....Not happening.....

DaSkinz Baby wrote:please don't go with any B.S. about him turning the defense around.

Oh, I wouldn't say he hasn't turned the defense around.

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

That's because you used the logic.

haha. Seriously though! If people are looking for a franchise to compare us to, try Cleveland or Oakland. Endless coaching changes. Franchises QBs who didn't pan out. Can't build through the draft because you traded away all of your picks for an old Carson Palmer. The idea that somebody is going to come in here and fix it all in 2.5 years is crazy.

+1

We trade away our future year after year. It's like Feb. 2nd in DC every offseason. RGIII turned out to be a successful trade, but we could have REALLY used that first rounder on a DB, OL, or DL.... and our 2014 1st rd pick also......

This is not a quick fix. It takes time to clean up the incredibly large dump Danny dropped on this franchise. If this team wants to be successful over the long term --- they need to do it like the others and build from the draft. This FO needs to set a precident that moving forward they will not trade ANY draft picks --- NONE.

Yep. I love the RGIII pick, and I'd still do it if we had to go back. But we really aren't a team that can afford not having a 1st round pick the next two years - especially when Mara is taking away our ability to cover those holes with a solid free agent.

I don't personally have a problem with firing Haslett or even Kyle at the end of the season if Mike decides they haven't done a good job. But I think it should be the Coach's decision. Not something done because idiots on the radio and internet want to see somebody canned.

SkinsJock wrote:WHY do we HAVE TO get rid of the DC now?

WHY can this decision not wait until after the season is over?


Should we also get rid of ALL the other coaches AND players that are not doing their jobs?

what is wrong with some of you guys?

From what I've read the reason Haslett hasnt been let go is because of money. If they sack him now they'll have to pay out the rest of his contract. If the Shanny fires him at the end of the season the Skins won't have to pay him. If thats the case I see why they're waiting. Its not like anyone else on the coaching staff can do much better so the team might as well wait for the year's end.

Bishop Hammer wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:WHY do we HAVE TO get rid of the DC now?

WHY can this decision not wait until after the season is over?


Should we also get rid of ALL the other coaches AND players that are not doing their jobs?

what is wrong with some of you guys?

From what I've read the reason Haslett hasnt been let go is because of money. If they sack him now they'll have to pay out the rest of his contract. If the Shanny fires him at the end of the season the Skins won't have to pay him. If thats the case I see why they're waiting. Its not like anyone else on the coaching staff can do much better so the team might as well wait for the year's end.

Not sure I believe that. When has Snyder ever worried about money?? I think we see what happens with the new DB coach and see if he has DC talent. If not wait and get Rex Ryan in here ASAP at the end of the year cause he will be fired from the Jets.....

I am very sure that the players and the FO want to finish this season before they make any rash decisions - that's fine with me

I just love the knee jerk reaction and the really STUPID "what could it hurt ..."

look - I'm not sure that these guys are the right guys - I'm just very glad that we have RG3
that was a great trade and fully worth what we gave up

sure we could use the draft picks but it's not like we have dumb and dumber in charge anymore here
- these guys will find a way to get a decent roster together with depth

IT WILL TAKE TIME - and we'll still have RG3

the product on the field is exciting again, despite what some may think

I do not agree that radical changes are needed, we are not far off
- I think Mike is here for another year barring a meltdown
- I'd really like it if Mike took over the play calling and let Kyle work with RG3
- I think that Hazlett's history unless this defense saves his sorry ass with better game planning

I'm for anything that does not include Dan Snyder having anything to do with player selection and for the people in charge to make the decisions at the appropriate time

Stick with Shanahan. No more organizational chaos. And I didn't see that the NFL had passed Joe Gibbs: who built toughness back into the Redskins and took them to the playoffs twice in four years?

The comments by Mann and Green are interesting because they put the cause way back to 1994, when Norv Turner brought in his unique style. Before that, the Redskins had had an unbroken line of powerful defensive teams, beginning with the day that George Allen traded for his Over the Hill Gang. Allen->Pardee->Petibon; Diron Talbert->Dave Butz->The National Defense.

Someone else said it: maybe it's worth spending more on defensive coaches than on free agents?

Still...don't fire Bruce Allen or Shanahan. Keep the continuity. Find another receiver, build the defense, protect RG3. If QB is more important than 30 years ago, then the trade for RG3 was absolutely necessary. That's a start.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I don't care if I'm wrong. I advocate in politics freedom from government. I am not on a side, I advocate whoever supports that.

Thanks for the laugh I needed that.

The next post will not be your backing that up

That he needed a laugh?

Canes whines then in fact doesn't back it up.

Deadskins thinks word association is an argument.

Then you go playground.

Wow, how do I compete with playground? It's a devastating tactic. Well played, my friend. Well played...

Thanks. I like doing what you do sometimes.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Bishop Hammer wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:WHY do we HAVE TO get rid of the DC now?

WHY can this decision not wait until after the season is over?


Should we also get rid of ALL the other coaches AND players that are not doing their jobs?

what is wrong with some of you guys?

From what I've read the reason Haslett hasnt been let go is because of money. If they sack him now they'll have to pay out the rest of his contract. If the Shanny fires him at the end of the season the Skins won't have to pay him. If thats the case I see why they're waiting. Its not like anyone else on the coaching staff can do much better so the team might as well wait for the year's end.

Not sure I believe that. When has Snyder ever worried about money?? I think we see what happens with the new DB coach and see if he has DC talent. If not wait and get Rex Ryan in here ASAP at the end of the year cause he will be fired from the Jets.....

Not sure you are exactly using logic here......... at all.

In your first post, you say that we should fire Haz because:
1. the "new" DC can come in mid-season and make an first hand assessment of who should stay and who should get fired/cut.
2. The new DC will have time to decide which players fit into his system
--> This statement is then followed by your second post proclaiming that we should replace Haz with our CURRENT defensive backs coach..... One who, in his current position, could already do items 1 & 2. So the way I see it, you gave 2 unneccessary reasons.....

In your second post you state that we should fire Haz to replace him with Morris. Our DB coach. Not sure, but do you realize that our DBs are the worst defensive unit in football? Morris is their coach. You know that right? Does it make sense to replace our current DC with the coach currently in charge of the WORST defensive unit in the NFL? The coach of the unit that is the reason for why our D is horrendous. Also, remember his HC gig in TBay. Remember that defense??? They were DEAD LAST in the league in his final year as HC (and they started as a top 10 defensive in his first). So, I'll go out on a limb and say no, it doesn't make sense.

As a second option, you state Rex should come in and be our DC. Really?? You know that MS still provides major input on D. Do you honestly think that Rex and MS could co-exist?? You realize both these guys have large egos, right? You also want to bring in the Terrell Owens of coaches ---- one that mouths off to the press every opportunity he gets? He's a good defensive coach, but not exactly the best fit.

It appears that MS has not given up on the season. If he had, then he may consider a change, but he hasn't. It appears you have.

markshark84 wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Bishop Hammer wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:WHY do we HAVE TO get rid of the DC now?

WHY can this decision not wait until after the season is over?


Should we also get rid of ALL the other coaches AND players that are not doing their jobs?

what is wrong with some of you guys?

From what I've read the reason Haslett hasnt been let go is because of money. If they sack him now they'll have to pay out the rest of his contract. If the Shanny fires him at the end of the season the Skins won't have to pay him. If thats the case I see why they're waiting. Its not like anyone else on the coaching staff can do much better so the team might as well wait for the year's end.

Not sure I believe that. When has Snyder ever worried about money?? I think we see what happens with the new DB coach and see if he has DC talent. If not wait and get Rex Ryan in here ASAP at the end of the year cause he will be fired from the Jets.....

Not sure you are exactly using logic here......... at all.

In your first post, you say that we should fire Haz because:
1. the "new" DC can come in mid-season and make an first hand assessment of who should stay and who should get fired/cut.
2. The new DC will have time to decide which players fit into his system
--> This statement is then followed by your second post proclaiming that we should replace Haz with our CURRENT defensive backs coach..... One who, in his current position, could already do items 1 & 2. So the way I see it, you gave 2 unneccessary reasons.....

In your second post you state that we should fire Haz to replace him with Morris. Our DB coach. Not sure, but do you realize that our DBs are the worst defensive unit in football? Morris is their coach. You know that right? Does it make sense to replace our current DC with the coach currently in charge of the WORST defensive unit in the NFL? The coach of the unit that is the reason for why our D is horrendous. Also, remember his HC gig in TBay. Remember that defense??? They were DEAD LAST in the league in his final year as HC (and they started as a top 10 defensive in his first). So, I'll go out on a limb and say no, it doesn't make sense.

As a second option, you state Rex should come in and be our DC. Really?? You know that MS still provides major input on D. Do you honestly think that Rex and MS could co-exist?? You realize both these guys have large egos, right? You also want to bring in the Terrell Owens of coaches ---- one that mouths off to the press every opportunity he gets? He's a good defensive coach, but not exactly the best fit.

It appears that MS has not given up on the season. If he had, then he may consider a change, but he hasn't. It appears you have.

No I used Morris as a stop gap. I would tend to think that Morris would give Rex Ryan our new DC next year better information that Hasbeen.......

welch wrote:Stick with Shanahan. No more organizational chaos. And I didn't see that the NFL had passed Joe Gibbs: who built toughness back into the Redskins and took them to the playoffs twice in four years?

The comments by Mann and Green are interesting because they put the cause way back to 1994, when Norv Turner brought in his unique style. Before that, the Redskins had had an unbroken line of powerful defensive teams, beginning with the day that George Allen traded for his Over the Hill Gang. Allen->Pardee->Petibon; Diron Talbert->Dave Butz->The National Defense.

Someone else said it: maybe it's worth spending more on defensive coaches than on free agents?

Still...don't fire Bruce Allen or Shanahan. Keep the continuity. Find another receiver, build the defense, protect RG3. If QB is more important than 30 years ago, then the trade for RG3 was absolutely necessary. That's a start.

Amen, brother.

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

Actually he used a pretty good comparison...

Two years ago the Colts had a different Coach, GM, QB, and defensive scheme... Last year they went into the gutter which led to the new guys coming in.

Wasn't Shanny brought in to clean up Vinny's mess?

Well the guy that says who stays and who goes, who signs and who doesn't has been in Ashburn two and a half years , he has a new QB, a new GM, and he also changed the defensive scheme (for comparison purposes BOTH teams went from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 scheme). After two and a half years Shanny the GM has turned over the roster... there are only 14 players on the roster thsat were on the roster when he took over.... In less than a year the GM in Indy only has eleven guys left from that playoff roster that you speak of.

The Colts have found enough players (some were on the roster some weren't when the GM got there) to fit their NEW scheme and are ranked in the top 20 after being bottom 10 last year (they were top 20 at this time two years ago ) Two years ago (Shanny's first year) the D was 31st at this point of of the 2010 season and in the top 15 last year... TODAY they are in the bottom five

Redskin in Canada wrote:

welch wrote:Stick with Shanahan. No more organizational chaos. And I didn't see that the NFL had passed Joe Gibbs: who built toughness back into the Redskins and took them to the playoffs twice in four years?

The comments by Mann and Green are interesting because they put the cause way back to 1994, when Norv Turner brought in his unique style. Before that, the Redskins had had an unbroken line of powerful defensive teams, beginning with the day that George Allen traded for his Over the Hill Gang. Allen->Pardee->Petibon; Diron Talbert->Dave Butz->The National Defense.

Someone else said it: maybe it's worth spending more on defensive coaches than on free agents?

Still...don't fire Bruce Allen or Shanahan. Keep the continuity. Find another receiver, build the defense, protect RG3. If QB is more important than 30 years ago, then the trade for RG3 was absolutely necessary. That's a start.

Amen, brother.

+1
Allen is doing a great job in his role has EVP, and IMHO Shanny should not only continue as HC but should be MORE hands on. Neither should have the role of GM

FTR: Two and a half years ago Canes and I were roughly 4 football fields apart on this subject

1niksder wrote:

riggofan wrote:This comparison to the Colts is completely off base. The Colts were a playoff team two years ago. They lost their franchise QB and fell apart for a year because they didn't have a good backup option in place. It shouldn't be a big surprise that they're doing well with Luck.

Actually he used a pretty good comparison...

Two years ago the Colts had a different Coach, GM, QB, and defensive scheme... Last year they went into the gutter which led to the new guys coming in.

Wasn't Shanny brought in to clean up Vinny's mess?

Well the guy that says who stays and who goes, who signs and who doesn't has been in Ashburn two and a half years , he has a new QB, a new GM, and he also changed the defensive scheme (for comparison purposes BOTH teams went from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4 scheme). After two and a half years Shanny the GM has turned over the roster... there are only 14 players on the roster thsat were on the roster when he took over.... In less than a year the GM in Indy only has eleven guys left from that playoff roster that you speak of.

The Colts have found enough players (some were on the roster some weren't when the GM got there) to fit their NEW scheme and are ranked in the top 20 after being bottom 10 last year (they were top 20 at this time two years ago ) Two years ago (Shanny's first year) the D was 31st at this point of of the 2010 season and in the top 15 last year... TODAY they are in the bottom five

Redskin in Canada wrote:

welch wrote:Stick with Shanahan. No more organizational chaos. And I didn't see that the NFL had passed Joe Gibbs: who built toughness back into the Redskins and took them to the playoffs twice in four years?

The comments by Mann and Green are interesting because they put the cause way back to 1994, when Norv Turner brought in his unique style. Before that, the Redskins had had an unbroken line of powerful defensive teams, beginning with the day that George Allen traded for his Over the Hill Gang. Allen->Pardee->Petibon; Diron Talbert->Dave Butz->The National Defense.

Someone else said it: maybe it's worth spending more on defensive coaches than on free agents?

Still...don't fire Bruce Allen or Shanahan. Keep the continuity. Find another receiver, build the defense, protect RG3. If QB is more important than 30 years ago, then the trade for RG3 was absolutely necessary. That's a start.

Amen, brother.

+1
Allen is doing a great job in his role has EVP, and IMHO Shanny should not only continue as HC but should be MORE hands on. Neither should have the role of GM

FTR: Two and a half years ago Canes and I were roughly 4 football fields apart on this subject

What was the Colts cap situation like when the new regime took over?

OK 1niksder - some good points ...

I would only add that the Colts were not having to deal with the years of damage that Snyder and Cerato caused by not having even a semblance of a plan

I take nothing away from what the Colts have done

I also think that many here think we're not much better than we were and that this FO and coaching staff cannot get it done

I disagree

these last 7 weeks (and this whole season) are going to be the cornerstone of the building of a better product on the field

we do need some things to "fall into place" here but i still believe in this FO - mainly just because we haven't had one

Here I think is an accurate description of the Redskins over the last 2 decades;
Most of their games over the course of the season will be close, but still losses, 2 to 4 losses will be to inferior teams, and they will be blown out once or twice. The team has had more personnel changes than any team in the league, from the GM all the way down to the water boy and nothing changes. There has been one thing, and only one thing thing over the last two decades that has remained a constant.....Dan Snyder. HE is the problem with this team and nothing is ever going to change until we get a new owner. Period.

1niksder wrote: ... Allen is doing a great job in his role has EVP, and IMHO Shanny should not only continue as HC but should be MORE hands on. Neither should have the role of GM

I take it that you think that Mike should be more involved with the HC stuff and not be a part of the FO

OK - I'd like to see that, but do you really think that Mike's ego is going to be able to handle that - I don't


this is what I see - depending on how this next 7 weeks go -

The FO stays the same with Mike as HC AND possibly some coaching changes

or

new coaching staff and FO - maybe Bruce keeps his job



my ideal scenario for this off season would be

Bruce Allen and Bill Polian with a new coaching staff =

grampi wrote:There has been one thing, and only one thing thing over the last two decades that has remained a constant.....Dan Snyder.

I have no love for The Danny, but he didn't buy the team two decades ago.

SkinsJock wrote:

1niksder wrote: ... Allen is doing a great job in his role has EVP, and IMHO Shanny should not only continue as HC but should be MORE hands on. Neither should have the role of GM

I take it that you think that Mike should be more involved with the HC stuff and not be a part of the FO

OK - I'd like to see that, but do you really think that Mike's ego is going to be able to handle that - I don't


this is what I see - depending on how this next 7 weeks go -

The FO stays the same with Mike as HC AND possibly some coaching changes

or

new coaching staff and FO - maybe Bruce keeps his job



my ideal scenario for this off season would be

Bruce Allen and Bill Polian with a new coaching staff =

Personally, I'd rather Shanny be the personnel guy, and get a new coach. Mike has had some pretty good drafts these last three years.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

1niksder wrote: ... Allen is doing a great job in his role has EVP, and IMHO Shanny should not only continue as HC but should be MORE hands on. Neither should have the role of GM

I take it that you think that Mike should be more involved with the HC stuff and not be a part of the FO

OK - I'd like to see that, but do you really think that Mike's ego is going to be able to handle that - I don't


this is what I see - depending on how this next 7 weeks go -

The FO stays the same with Mike as HC AND possibly some coaching changes

or

new coaching staff and FO - maybe Bruce keeps his job



my ideal scenario for this off season would be Bruce Allen and Bill Polian with a new coaching staff =

Personally, I'd rather Shanny be the personnel guy, and get a new coach. Mike has had some pretty good drafts these last three years.

agreed - I just don't see his ego being able to handle that

Bruce and Mike could be a force but ... Mike wants EVERYTHING