The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Hogster - Your arguments are absurd!

You say I am "attempting to place blame that each miss on someone else." Not true. Only the blocks.

I DO "acknowledging that all Kickers must kick under less than ideal conditions." YOU fail to acknowledge that I do so.

Gano is improving, I provide stats, and you minimize/ignore them.

You say " every kicker in the league has to kick under the same adverse circumstances" and I have PROVEN that to be wrong.

It is also a FACT that Smith asks him to aim for the pylon. That being a bad or good idea is mostly OPINION.

You belittle my Magic Johnson analogy but it it irrefutable.

You completely blow it with Lohmiller. I never said what you say I did. I compare them on equal terms. Gano is his equal (or better) percentagewise INCLUDING BLOCKS!

By the way, the line just got blown up again for a block ... oh yeah, all kickers have to deal with 5 of those a year! Good grief!

Your response below was idiotoc.

DarthMonk

The Hogster wrote:DarthMonk Wrote:

This is an absurd misrepresentaion of my post twisted into your words in order to belittle facts and set up a straw man which you, of course, easily knock over. Gotcha.

Actually it is not. It's a pretty straightforward statement that you are looking at all of Gano's misses and attempting to place blame that each miss on someone else. You're doing this without acknowledging that all Kickers must kick under less than ideal conditions. All kickers must deal with (i) the snap, (ii) the hold, (iii) the weather, (iv) the defense. That's part of football.

I have both shared them and commented on them. I made no excuses. My conclusion (I wrote it) is "he's improving."

Isn't he?

Yes. If you consider going from 66% to 70% improving then I agree. You're giving him credit for things he's supposed to do as a professional. He's supposed to improve year to year. So is any other kicker in the league. Accordingly, this is pretty weak considering that his "improved performance" still places him near the worst in the league.

You seem confused. You admonish me to ignore stats all I want after I supply great stats which you seemingingly ignore or perhaps, do not understand.

No confusion here. Your stats are valid. However, you present them to suggest that Gano would be better but for various mishaps. No argument there. But, you all conveniently ignore that every kicker in the league has to kick under the same adverse circumstances, and under the same pressure. Gano has proven time and again, that his "big leg" doesn't show up in the clutch. Maybe it's, nerves, pressure, anxiety. Whatever it is, it isn't consistent right now. I happen to think his problem is mental, or anxiety-based because he has proven that he's able to make kicks that he misses routinely.

Your stats also revealed that he's the league leader in Kickoffs out of bounds. There's no excuse for that. We can't blame that on the defense or offensive line, so someone else suggested that it's our coaches fault for asking him to directional kick since he can't do it. That is ridiculous.

Building on that I would not have sent Magic Johnson to the line for technicals in his 2nd year (76%) but would have in 1988 or later when he converted at 90%. His stats show gradual improvement until he became THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE AT SHOOTING FREE THROWS.

This is a clever response to my "free throw" analogy. Credit you for that. But, c'mon Darth. Gano is no Magic Johnson. That's a s t r e t ch to say the least. Did you pull a hammy coming up with that?

Wow. You tallking about Chop Lowdriller? Chip Polekiller? Only felt close to like money for a year or two with the best holder in history. Other than that he was as shaky as Gano easily. I was at most of those games. I actually had the same feelings you describe for Gano:

This is where your argument goes weak. Yes. I am referencing Chip Lohmiller. Why? Because he made kicks when they counted. He had nerves of steel when the pressure was on. As a result, you can live with some of his misses. I think most of us would take Tebow's 7 wins over Grossman & Becks record. Tebow makes plays when it counts which is something you can always live with. A guy who disappears when you need him cannot be relied on to win.

Another weak point of this argument is that you (i) reference Lohmiller's percentages as they are--but you dig beneath the surface to justify Gano's misses. You can't have it both ways. Either the numbers tell the story, or you'd have to give other kickers the same benefits of doubt that you give Gano.

Finally, this part of your argument is weak because it supports my view. You're attributing Lohmiller's failures to the loss of the "best holder in history." Sounds like a "mitigating factor" aka 'excuse.' Would that not support the opinion that Lohmiller was a great kicker? Would that not support my argument that all kickers must deal with less than ideal conditions? If I follow your logic, I would simply say that had Lohmiller not had a bad holder, then he would be an 85% percent kicker. That's the same benefits you give to Gano. Why not Chip? We know why. Because you think it's a fact unfavorable to your argument.

Money, huh? It appears Gano's current year is better than all of Lohmiller's with Washington except 1990 and 1992 and the difference is less than one percentage point - aka - a pube.

Gano is better, even with the blocks! OMFG!

This is more weak argument about Lohmiller that is rrelevant to Gano. I brought up Chip because he was CLUTCH. He made kicks when they count and Gano doesn't. He made kicks with playoff implications and championships on the line. Would you trust Gano with that when he can't kick in the wind, or against the Cowboys? The important games late in the year are played in bad weather. That's just mother nature. Do you keep rolling with a guy who needs sunshine, no wind, a great snap, a great hold, and a symphony playing to make a clutch kick?? I wouldn't.

Are you going to go back on Lohmiller's stats and exclude the blocks, bad snaps, holds, weather conditions, and whatever other excuse?? No. I know why. Because that wouldn't support your argument. But, it's bare hypocrisy.

I never said I trusted him and I have the same concerns you voiced in these last two paragraphs.

DarthMonk

I think we are close to being in playoff contention, and I'm not willing to wait and see if Gano changes his mindset and becomes clutch. Stakes are too high. Some here are willing to take that risk. We can just agree to disagree on that.

So, if you concede that you don't trust Gano, what exactly is your point?

I love the Redskins. And, I love debating issues and learning something. Anything that makes you think is a good thing. Your post made me think. Since you said that you agree with my basic opinion about Gano having troubles that are more mental than based on his ability, I give you extra credit for arguing the position that other posters could not do effectively.

Educate yourself. Start with this thread, then move to actual football games. Everything that I needed to say in order to destroy your weak argument has been said in this thread. You debate like a 5 year old. You're trying to stretch facts to fit your agenda. They don't.

Case in point, your lame argument that Gano should be given credit for the blocked kicks. You automatically assume that those kicks would have been good if they weren't blocked. Hey genius, if the stats hold up--he probably only hits 2-3 out of those 5. But, because you lack analytical ability, you're just going to add 5 makes to his percentages. Did Santa bring you everything you wanted this year Darth??

Good grief.

Hogster,
No one has ever said that Gano should get credit for the blocked kicks. What most people that look at this rationally have said that you shouldn't hold a blocked kick against Gano. That is different from governing him credit.

Lets say Gano has kicked 40 FG attempts and 5 have been blocked and one was so botched by the holder that Gano never had a chance so those six shouldn't count for or against him. You simpy remove them from the equation, since he had no control over them.

So the math to figure Gano's FG % would not included those six attempts. So instead of him being 30 out of 40 he would be 30 out of 34. These may not be the exact #s but they are close and by removing the FG attempts that Gano had no control over you grade him more accurately.

Here is an example that even my 4th grader can understand. Say his teacher gives him a test that has 40 multiple choice questions on it, but on six of his questions there is no correct answer in the choices. He answers the six questions but they were "wrong" and he got four more wrong on his own. Should his grade be 30/40 (75%) or 30/34 (88%). So what is more fair. The C or the B.

Now I know what you're going to say, all of the kids has to deal with the same thing. In this case each kid got a different test. Some had 50 questions but only had 2 questions that didn't have an correct answers to chose from. And some kids got a test with 32 questions, but their test didn't have any questions that were missing correct choices.

Hopefully you can see what my 9 year old can understand!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Hogster - Your arguments are absurd!

You say I am "attempting to place blame that each miss on someone else." Not true. Only the blocks.

I DO "acknowledging that all Kickers must kick under less than ideal conditions." YOU fail to acknowledge that I do so.

Gano is improving, I provide stats, and you minimize/ignore them.

You say " every kicker in the league has to kick under the same adverse circumstances" and I have PROVEN that to be wrong.

It is also a FACT that Smith asks him to aim for the pylon. That being a bad or good idea is mostly OPINION.

You belittle my Magic Johnson analogy but it it irrefutable.

You completely blow it with Lohmiller. I never said what you say I did. I compare them on equal terms. Gano is his equal (or better) percentagewise INCLUDING BLOCKS!

By the way, the line just got blown up again for a block ... oh yeah, all kickers have to deal with 5 of those a year! Good grief!

Your response below was idiotoc.

DarthMonk

The Hogster wrote:DarthMonk Wrote:

This is an absurd misrepresentaion of my post twisted into your words in order to belittle facts and set up a straw man which you, of course, easily knock over. Gotcha.

Actually it is not. It's a pretty straightforward statement that you are looking at all of Gano's misses and attempting to place blame that each miss on someone else. You're doing this without acknowledging that all Kickers must kick under less than ideal conditions. All kickers must deal with (i) the snap, (ii) the hold, (iii) the weather, (iv) the defense. That's part of football.

I have both shared them and commented on them. I made no excuses. My conclusion (I wrote it) is "he's improving."

Isn't he?

Yes. If you consider going from 66% to 70% improving then I agree. You're giving him credit for things he's supposed to do as a professional. He's supposed to improve year to year. So is any other kicker in the league. Accordingly, this is pretty weak considering that his "improved performance" still places him near the worst in the league.

You seem confused. You admonish me to ignore stats all I want after I supply great stats which you seemingingly ignore or perhaps, do not understand.

No confusion here. Your stats are valid. However, you present them to suggest that Gano would be better but for various mishaps. No argument there. But, you all conveniently ignore that every kicker in the league has to kick under the same adverse circumstances, and under the same pressure. Gano has proven time and again, that his "big leg" doesn't show up in the clutch. Maybe it's, nerves, pressure, anxiety. Whatever it is, it isn't consistent right now. I happen to think his problem is mental, or anxiety-based because he has proven that he's able to make kicks that he misses routinely.

Your stats also revealed that he's the league leader in Kickoffs out of bounds. There's no excuse for that. We can't blame that on the defense or offensive line, so someone else suggested that it's our coaches fault for asking him to directional kick since he can't do it. That is ridiculous.

Building on that I would not have sent Magic Johnson to the line for technicals in his 2nd year (76%) but would have in 1988 or later when he converted at 90%. His stats show gradual improvement until he became THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE AT SHOOTING FREE THROWS.

This is a clever response to my "free throw" analogy. Credit you for that. But, c'mon Darth. Gano is no Magic Johnson. That's a s t r e t ch to say the least. Did you pull a hammy coming up with that?

Wow. You tallking about Chop Lowdriller? Chip Polekiller? Only felt close to like money for a year or two with the best holder in history. Other than that he was as shaky as Gano easily. I was at most of those games. I actually had the same feelings you describe for Gano:

This is where your argument goes weak. Yes. I am referencing Chip Lohmiller. Why? Because he made kicks when they counted. He had nerves of steel when the pressure was on. As a result, you can live with some of his misses. I think most of us would take Tebow's 7 wins over Grossman & Becks record. Tebow makes plays when it counts which is something you can always live with. A guy who disappears when you need him cannot be relied on to win.

Another weak point of this argument is that you (i) reference Lohmiller's percentages as they are--but you dig beneath the surface to justify Gano's misses. You can't have it both ways. Either the numbers tell the story, or you'd have to give other kickers the same benefits of doubt that you give Gano.

Finally, this part of your argument is weak because it supports my view. You're attributing Lohmiller's failures to the loss of the "best holder in history." Sounds like a "mitigating factor" aka 'excuse.' Would that not support the opinion that Lohmiller was a great kicker? Would that not support my argument that all kickers must deal with less than ideal conditions? If I follow your logic, I would simply say that had Lohmiller not had a bad holder, then he would be an 85% percent kicker. That's the same benefits you give to Gano. Why not Chip? We know why. Because you think it's a fact unfavorable to your argument.

Money, huh? It appears Gano's current year is better than all of Lohmiller's with Washington except 1990 and 1992 and the difference is less than one percentage point - aka - a pube.

Gano is better, even with the blocks! OMFG!

This is more weak argument about Lohmiller that is rrelevant to Gano. I brought up Chip because he was CLUTCH. He made kicks when they count and Gano doesn't. He made kicks with playoff implications and championships on the line. Would you trust Gano with that when he can't kick in the wind, or against the Cowboys? The important games late in the year are played in bad weather. That's just mother nature. Do you keep rolling with a guy who needs sunshine, no wind, a great snap, a great hold, and a symphony playing to make a clutch kick?? I wouldn't.

Are you going to go back on Lohmiller's stats and exclude the blocks, bad snaps, holds, weather conditions, and whatever other excuse?? No. I know why. Because that wouldn't support your argument. But, it's bare hypocrisy.

I never said I trusted him and I have the same concerns you voiced in these last two paragraphs.

DarthMonk

I think we are close to being in playoff contention, and I'm not willing to wait and see if Gano changes his mindset and becomes clutch. Stakes are too high. Some here are willing to take that risk. We can just agree to disagree on that.

So, if you concede that you don't trust Gano, what exactly is your point?

I love the Redskins. And, I love debating issues and learning something. Anything that makes you think is a good thing. Your post made me think. Since you said that you agree with my basic opinion about Gano having troubles that are more mental than based on his ability, I give you extra credit for arguing the position that other posters could not do effectively.

Educate yourself. Start with this thread, then move to actual football games. Everything that I needed to say in order to destroy your weak argument has been said in this thread. You debate like a 5 year old. You're trying to stretch facts to fit your agenda. They don't.

Case in point, your lame argument that Gano should be given credit for the blocked kicks. You automatically assume that those kicks would have been good if they weren't blocked. Hey genius, if the stats hold up--he probably only hits 2-3 out of those 5. But, because you lack analytical ability, you're just going to add 5 makes to his percentages. Did Santa bring you everything you wanted this year Darth??

Good grief.

Hogster,
No one has ever said that Gano should get credit for the blocked kicks. What most people that look at this rationally have said that you shouldn't hold a blocked kick against Gano. That is different from governing him credit.

Lets say Gano has kicked 40 FG attempts and 5 have been blocked and one was so botched by the holder that Gano never had a chance so those six shouldn't count for or against him. You simpy remove them from the equation, since he had no control over them.

So the math to figure Gano's FG % would not included those six attempts. So instead of him being 30 out of 40 he would be 30 out of 34. These may not be the exact #s but they are close and by removing the FG attempts that Gano had no control over you grade him more accurately.

Here is an example that even my 4th grader can understand. Say his teacher gives him a test that has 40 multiple choice questions on it, but on six of his questions there is no correct answer in the choices. He answers the six questions but they were "wrong" and he got four more wrong on his own. Should his grade be 30/40 (75%) or 30/34 (88%). So what is more fair. The C or the B.

Now I know what you're going to say, all of the kids has to deal with the same thing. In this case each kid got a different test. Some had 50 questions but only had 2 questions that didn't have an correct answers to chose from. And some kids got a test with 32 questions, but their test didn't have any questions that were missing correct choices.

Hopefully you can see what my 9 year old can understand!

Yeah, I understand that genius. But, guess what? When you're comparing Gano against 31 other kickers, yo HAVE to understand that other kickers have to deal with blocks, bad snaps etc. So, while his percentage would go up if you remove those mishaps beyond his control, you'd be a moron to think you don't have to do the same for the other kickers.

Maybe Gano has had MORE mishaps occur beyond his control than his peers, but the number is not statistically significant enough to change his standing among the league's kickers. As a result, Gano would get a slight bump, but so would everyone else. Accordingly, he's STILL ranked near the bottom of the league. Maybe being one the the worst at your job is acceptable to you. Not me.

To each their own.

The Hogster wrote:Educate yourself. Start with this thread, then move to actual football games. Everything that I needed to say in order to destroy your weak argument has been said in this thread. You debate like a 5 year old. You're trying to stretch facts to fit your agenda. They don't.

Here we go.

The Hogster wrote:Case in point, your lame argument that Gano should be given credit for the blocked kicks. You automatically assume that those kicks would have been good if they weren't blocked.

OMFG! I do NOT. I simply remove them and say 26 of 31 instead of 26 of 35 (before he went 4 of 4 last week and had another blocked today!). Can you add and subtract? You are factually wrong here. Get a grip!

The Hogster wrote:Hey genius, if the stats hold up--he probably only hits 2-3 out of those 5. But, because you lack analytical ability, you're just going to add 5 makes to his percentages.

Do you understand yet? Do you have analytic ability? My 11 year old gets this. 35 - 4 = 31. I did not add 5 makes! I subtracted 4 ATTEMPTS!

The Hogster wrote:Did Santa bring you everything you wanted this year Darth??

No. I prayed that he bring you a brain.

The Hogster wrote:Good grief.

I'm await your response. Please read 3 times before hitting submit. Can someone else on this board please (for the love of God) help this poor soul? i have one more Belgian and am about to enjoy a Cowboy loss.

Hogster .. we agree on the doubts about Gano's head but please take a remedial course in basic arithmetic and logic.

If you still don't see the folly of your response above all I can say is

DarthMonk

DarthVaderwrote:

Do you understand yet? Do you have analytic ability? My 11 year old gets this. 35 - 4 = 31. I did not add 5 makes! I subtracted 4 ATTEMPTS!

I get it genius. The point is it doesn't matter unless you are going to go through every other kicker's attempts and adjust the stats the same as you have for Gano. The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

The Hogster wrote: The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

Therefore I suggest you actually take this link and READ!

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

Gano ranks 18th at 85.71%. INCLUDING blocked kicks as MISSED ATTEMPTS he's better than Lowdriller. Got any "clutch" stats on him???

Darth (YOUR DADDY) Monk

PS - Your last post was funny!

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote: The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

Therefore I suggest you actually take this link and READ!

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

Gano ranks 18th at 85.71%. INCLUDING blocked kicks as MISSED ATTEMPTS he's better than Lowdriller. Got any "clutch" stats on him???

Darth (YOUR DADDY) Monk

PS - Your last post was funny!

I admire your efforts, but I don't think it's going to make an impact.

I do appreciate the link, though. Nice set of stats.

The Hogster wrote:
Yeah, I understand that genius. But, guess what? When you're comparing Gano against 31 other kickers, yo HAVE to understand that other kickers have to deal with blocks, bad snaps etc. So, while his percentage would go up if you remove those mishaps beyond his control, you'd be a moron to think you don't have to do the same for the other kickers.

Maybe Gano has had MORE mishaps occur beyond his control than his peers, but the number is not statistically significant enough to change his standing among the league's kickers. As a result, Gano would get a slight bump, but so would everyone else. Accordingly, he's STILL ranked near the bottom of the league. Maybe being one the the worst at your job is acceptable to you. Not me.

To each their own.

You're arguments make me think about those triangles with a angle greater than 90 degrees. What are they called? Oh yes, obtuse!

You argue w/o reading the post you are replying to. At least I hope that is what the problem is because if you're actually reading my post or DM's than you're not comprehending what we are saying and I go back to that triangle analogy.

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote: The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

Therefore I suggest you actually take this link and READ!

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

Gano ranks 18th at 85.71%. INCLUDING blocked kicks as MISSED ATTEMPTS he's better than Lowdriller. Got any "clutch" stats on him???

Darth (YOUR DADDY) Monk

PS - Your last post was funny!

Have you read your own stats?? Even based on this link we were dead last in FG make % excluding blocks in 2010. This year we improved to an impressive 18th in the league. Yay.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... 2011-02-07

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote: The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

Therefore I suggest you actually take this link and READ!

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

Gano ranks 18th at 85.71%. INCLUDING blocked kicks as MISSED ATTEMPTS he's better than Lowdriller. Got any "clutch" stats on him???

Darth (YOUR DADDY) Monk

PS - Your last post was funny!

Have you read your own stats?? Even based on this link we were dead last in FG make % excluding blocks in 2010. This year we improved to an impressive 18th in the league. Yay.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... 2011-02-07

Bring on the competition and may the best kicker win.

At least we both love the Redskins!

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote: The key is assessing his performance relative to other kickers. If you subtract his blocks, bad snaps etc, you'd have to do that for everyone else in order to accurately compare them. DUHHHHHH.

Therefore I suggest you actually take this link and READ!

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

Gano ranks 18th at 85.71%. INCLUDING blocked kicks as MISSED ATTEMPTS he's better than Lowdriller. Got any "clutch" stats on him???

Darth (YOUR DADDY) Monk

PS - Your last post was funny!

Have you read your own stats?? Even based on this link we were dead last in FG make % excluding blocks in 2010. This year we improved to an impressive 18th in the league. Yay.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... 2011-02-07

Bring on the competition and may the best kicker win.

At least we both love the Redskins!

DarthMonk

+1

Neil Rackers is Headed to Washington

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/kicker-neil-rackers-says-hes-signed-with-the-redskins/2012/04/24/gIQAhUfkfT_blog.html

Kicker Neil Rackers says he’s signed with the Redskins

By Mark Maske
Veteran kicker Neil Rackers told a Houston television station that he’d agreed to a one-year contract with the Washington Redskins as a free agent to compete with Graham Gano for the Redskins’ kicking job.

The Redskins did not immediately confirm the deal Tuesday evening.

But Rackers told KRIV-TV that he’s “headed to Washington” after meeting Monday with Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan and special teams coach Danny Smith.

“We’re going to see what happens, but it seems like the best opportunity for me and my family at this point,” Rackers told the TV station. “There’s more upside, more opportunity for advancement in Washington.”

Rackers called Gano “an established, good kicker” and said he’ll compete with Gano for the job in D.C. He told the Houston TV station he didn’t receive the multi-year contract offer from the Texans that he said he’d been promised.

Rackers connected on 32 of 38 field goal attempts last season for the Texans. He has been successful on 80 percent of his field goal tries in 12 NFL seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals, Arizona Cardinals and Texans.

Gano connected on 31 of 41 field goal attempts last season for the Redskins.

I guess I wasn't the only one who thought we needed some competition.

The Hogster wrote:I guess I wasn't the only one who thought we needed some competition.

You weren't the only one in this thread.

Darth Monk wrote:Bring on the competition and may the best kicker win.

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm not saying that Gano has earned a spot next year. All I'm saying is that he's shown enough positives and has enough upside that he deserves another shot at the roster spot in camp.

Irn-Bru wrote:I agree that Gano should not be our "default" choice going into next year.

Skins Jock wrote:bring in some other kickers NEXT year and see if any of them can beat this kid out

CLL wrote:I'm sure the skins aren't ignoring some all-star kicker in free agency
- competition will be brought in during the off-season

So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

The Hogster wrote:I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

Gano's will when the kicking completion, On Turf, no bad snaps, no bad holds, no rush.

Then he'll take the field at FedEx that is sodded, facing a rush, with a real holder and snapper.

Irn-Bru wrote:So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

This is why I can't deal with fans/posters that want to throw the FO under the bus for every little thing. Every position cannot be addressed in one off-season. These guys are true football minds, they'll get to it all eventually. There's a priority list, I'm sure of that. In addition, they're doing what every player wants from a coach, to believe in them. We can't cut a guy at every whim, that doesn't create a good lockerroom, any more than it does in our places of work.

Irn-Bru wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I guess I wasn't the only one who thought we needed some competition.

You weren't the only one in this thread.

Darth Monk wrote:Bring on the competition and may the best kicker win.

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm not saying that Gano has earned a spot next year. All I'm saying is that he's shown enough positives and has enough upside that he deserves another shot at the roster spot in camp.

Irn-Bru wrote:I agree that Gano should not be our "default" choice going into next year.

Skins Jock wrote:bring in some other kickers NEXT year and see if any of them can beat this kid out

CLL wrote:I'm sure the skins aren't ignoring some all-star kicker in free agency
- competition will be brought in during the off-season

So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

The Hogster wrote:I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

Having fun following me around the board? "Hurry up and buy."

I said I would have cut him. My opinion. I'm more Bill Parcells on this issue. It's called having an opinion. Now go search more of my posts and look for something else to criticize and pick apart. Thanks in advance.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

This is why I can't deal with fans/posters that want to throw the FO under the bus for every little thing. Every position cannot be addressed in one off-season. These guys are true football minds, they'll get to it all eventually. There's a priority list, I'm sure of that. In addition, they're doing what every player wants from a coach, to believe in them. We can't cut a guy at every whim, that doesn't create a good lockerroom, any more than it does in our places of work.

You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

This is why I can't deal with fans/posters that want to throw the FO under the bus for every little thing. Every position cannot be addressed in one off-season. These guys are true football minds, they'll get to it all eventually. There's a priority list, I'm sure of that. In addition, they're doing what every player wants from a coach, to believe in them. We can't cut a guy at every whim, that doesn't create a good lockerroom, any more than it does in our places of work.

You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

Wow! I must say that was a very fan boy type post. Lots of passion, not very well thought out or based in facts in anyway.

riggofan wrote:You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

I will blame the fans. It's posts like this that drive me up a wall.

This fanbase is the only fanbase with which I have an intimate knowledge of. And I get that it's been 20 years and blah blah. This fanbase cried for consistency, stability and a thorough rebuilding of the franchise. And you're getting it but neither you or the organization realized just how messed up things were.

This isn't the 49ers, Mike wasn't handed the keys to a complete team. He was handed garbage. He was handed "starters" that weren't even worthy of being backups which is evident by their release. He was handed a scouting division that was handicapped and strangled by the owner and his flunkie. He wasn't given a full set of draft picks. He was given poorly scouted players from previous attempts at drafts. He had to build proper training facilities. He had to revamp the strength and conditioning dept. He was handed Albert Haynesworth. He's been screwed by the league by taking salary cap space.

C'mon man, yall need to get a grip on what's real. You asked for change and it's happening. I blame the fans for wanting a quick fix. U can't undo 20 years of crap in 2 seasons. And if you can't see the progress, than you can't be helped.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

This is why I can't deal with fans/posters that want to throw the FO under the bus for every little thing. Every position cannot be addressed in one off-season. These guys are true football minds, they'll get to it all eventually. There's a priority list, I'm sure of that. In addition, they're doing what every player wants from a coach, to believe in them. We can't cut a guy at every whim, that doesn't create a good lockerroom, any more than it does in our places of work.

You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

Wow! I must say that was a very fan boy type post. Lots of passion, not very well thought out or based in facts in anyway.

Folks get real sensitive around THN lately. At the end of the day, we all want to win. We've finished dead last in the NFC East 2 years in a row. And, Graham Gano--however we want to spin it--has not gotten it done. Wanting our players to do better and be held accountable doesn't mean we want to "cut every" guy on a whim. That's just silly.

Hopefully Gano does better this year. But, like I said from the beginning, he's won offseason competitions before. He's beaten out vets before. He's kicked well in practice before. He seems to have performance anxiety--which leads to him crumbling under pressure. Maybe he shakes it. But, we can't act surprised if we see the ShawShank Redemption at least once with the game on the line this year with him. #reality

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

I will blame the fans. It's posts like this that drive me up a wall.

haha. Sorry to fire you up man! I was joking, completely agree with your original post.

skinsfan#33 wrote:Wow! I must say that was a very fan boy type post. Lots of passion, not very well thought out or based in facts in anyway.

Irony in action.

The Hogster wrote:Having fun following me around the board? "Hurry up and buy."

Engaging someone in two threads = "following them around the board"? Sure thing, dude.

Look, if you bump an old thread solely because you want to imply that Shanny agrees with you as opposed to everyone else on THN, it's probably a good idea to at least re-read the thread and/or get your story straight first.

One of the two main discussions in this thread included you repeatedly saying Shanny should've cut Gano right away (and forget about even considering him for training camp), while your opponents were arguing that we should keep Gano around at least until TC when competition could be brought in — and at that point, may the best man win.

Ask yourself: which is Shanny doing?

Despite what you imply, I've got no problem with you holding your side of the debate, then or now. So you want Gano gone: good for you.

The only head-scratcher is that you posted the news to this thread and implied it proved Shanny agreed with you and not, e.g., me or DarthMonk. Come on, Hogster, you have to admit that's pretty funny

I said I would have cut him. My opinion. I'm more Bill Parcells on this issue. It's called having an opinion. Now go search more of my posts and look for something else to criticize and pick apart. Thanks in advance.

Searching through your posts? Remind me in the future not to respond to more than one of your posts within a 24-hour period. You are taking this way too personally. Believe me when I say that responding to two threads at the top of the forum didn't require any special attention, much less "searching."

The Hogster wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:So it looks like Shanny agreed with basically everyone in this thread, except perhaps the ones with the strongest opinions, e.g.,

This is why I can't deal with fans/posters that want to throw the FO under the bus for every little thing. Every position cannot be addressed in one off-season. These guys are true football minds, they'll get to it all eventually. There's a priority list, I'm sure of that. In addition, they're doing what every player wants from a coach, to believe in them. We can't cut a guy at every whim, that doesn't create a good lockerroom, any more than it does in our places of work.

You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

Wow! I must say that was a very fan boy type post. Lots of passion, not very well thought out or based in facts in anyway.

Folks get real sensitive around THN lately. At the end of the day, we all want to win. We've finished dead last in the NFC East 2 years in a row. And, Graham Gano--however we want to spin it--has not gotten it done. Wanting our players to do better and be held accountable doesn't mean we want to "cut every" guy on a whim. That's just silly.

Hopefully Gano does better this year. But, like I said from the beginning, he's won offseason competitions before. He's beaten out vets before. He's kicked well in practice before. He seems to have performance anxiety--which leads to him crumbling under pressure. Maybe he shakes it. But, we can't act surprised if we see the ShawShank Redemption at least once with the game on the line this year with him. #reality

Yes, Gano really needs to get better, but so does the blocking unit! Gano was 31 of 41 on FG. That is bad, but of those 41 attempts SEVEN were blocked!!!

Now two of those seven still went, but five of the misses were totally on the blocking unit. Another one was on the holder. So Gano was responsible for only four of the ten misses. But he also made two kicks that were blocked.

His but is blocking team was way worse than he!

Think about

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:You can't blame these fans Chris. Shanahan is an ego maniac, and he won't fix everything immediately because of Kyle.

I will blame the fans. It's posts like this that drive me up a wall.

haha. Sorry to fire you up man! I was joking, completely agree with your original post.

Oh man, you got me too. Sometimes you gotta be careful just how realistic you make your impressions.

Gano is younger with a stronger leg than anyone he has faced in his offseason competitions, but it's stacked in his favor. Shanny likes him and for some reason believes he'll turn into a great kicker.

FedEx has grass and unpredictable wind directions, yet during these competitions he is kicking on field turf, limited wind and nobody rushing them. Four pre-season games aren't enough to make Shanny say he was wrong.

Gano has improved but the competition for his spot should be more realistic to what the game situations are like.

For the record GG is coming of a back injury but has been booming 50+ yards for about a month now. If he loses his spot it won't be because of his back