Skeptical That Redskins Can Win With Grossman Or Beck

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:54 am

SUCK FOR LUCK!

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:02 am

RedskinsRule56 wrote:1nksder What's your excuse for why if John Beck is the guy he didn't start last year after McNabb was benched?

I don't need a excuse I'm not sure Shanny saw enough of Grossman, then again I'm not Shanahan.

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:04 am

Enough of Grossman? Wasn't his 6 years in Chicago and 1 year in Houston enough evidence to show that Rex Grossman is a career backup at best?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:56 am

I'll repeat - we might not do well and some think that BUT ... to think that an FO and HC would put together a group of players and game plan to try and get a player in the next draft is just stupid and borders on ... screw it, I'm done with making that point

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:40 am

Can't remember the guy's name but I heard him on ESPN Radio.. said Hasselback may go to the Redskins. You guys heard about that?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:06 am

SkinsJock wrote:I'll repeat - we might not do well and some think that BUT ... to think that an FO and HC would put together a group of players and game plan to try and get a player in the next draft is just stupid and borders on ... screw it, I'm done with making that point

It happens in the NBA, but no NFL team is going to tank on purpose. One player just doesn't make enough of a difference.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:14 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I'll repeat - we might not do well and some think that BUT ... to think that an FO and HC would put together a group of players and game plan to try and get a player in the next draft is just stupid and borders on ... screw it, I'm done with making that point

It happens in the NBA, but no NFL team is going to tank on purpose. One player just doesn't make enough of a difference.

Agreed. No one player can make enough of a difference in the only major professional sport where the players do not play, both offense and defense.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:09 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Can't remember the guy's name but I heard him on ESPN Radio.. said Hasselback may go to the Redskins. You guys heard about that?

The only articles that I am finding online are all dated May 9th like the link below.

I take these like all the rumors during the draft concerning which QBs Shanny was interested in drafting. First, I don't see the logic in signing a high priced vet this late in the off season and 2nd, it appears that Shanny is looking toward next year's draft for his QB. I believe that the vet QB Shanny signs will be a bargain priced guy.

http://www.thepigskinreport.com/2011/05 ... -redskins/

Here's a rumor from July 12th about Hasselbeck going to the Titans.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7635 ... -tennessee

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:37 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote: Second, I don't even know what high-motor means-- well conditioned? determined? tries hard on every play?, etc.

Here is a definition of high motor from a high motor guy.

BB: Just playing devil’s advocate there. I’m already a believer. Your combine numbers compared favorably to “freak athlete” Robert Quinn’s (plus you crushed him on the bench) and your work ethic is borderline legendary. If you had to pick only one thing, what is your defining characteristic as a football player?

RK: It would have to be my motor. If you watch the film, every play will look the same no matter what the score is in the game. I take pride in that. I want it to be known that I’m going to give my all every single play and that I’m someone my teammates can really on from whistle to whistle.

Not every NFL player gives you that. One of the popular scouting comments is "he takes plays off."

http://burgundyblog.com/post/7572396457/rk

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:44 pm

SUCK FOR LUCK

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Rich Tandler,CSNWashington.com

You can’t, however, look at Beck’s career stats (one touchdown, three interceptions, 62.0 passer rating) or his film from his games in Miami and conclude that he can’t play. He was a rookie on a bad team and he played like it. In his four starts he posted a better passer rating than either Peyton or Eli Manning did in their first four NFL starts (52.1 and 31.4, respectively). That does not mean that he will be as good as either of the Manning brothers, just that you can’t draw much of a conclusion from such a small sample size.

http://www.csnwashington.com/07/14/11/S ... eedID=6458

welch · Post by **welch** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:18 pm

All of which seems to mean...who knows? We can all predict, but nobody knows more than a guess.

"I can call spirits from the vasty deep!"

"Ah you can call 'em, but will they come?"

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:27 pm

I think Shanahan has done a good job of adding more pieces to this team. I think offensively we have a lot of new weapons especially pretty much all receivers. Halu might turn out to be good we will see. Also Kerrigan should be good. I think he and Rak will wreak havoc on Qbs for many years to come.

I think Grossman is a short term solution as most of us think. Maybe he can rise above his former plateau of success and become a SuperBowl Champion? Well we just have to see when the season starts what happens. I cant wait.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:57 am

RedskinsRule56 wrote:SUCK FOR LUCK

That's just way too easy...

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:40 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
RedskinsRule56 wrote:SUCK FOR LUCK

That's just way too easy...

& for reasons stated in this & other threads, stupid.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:40 pm

Beck's debut for Miami in 2007.
Dolphins finish 1-15 that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXLIVDOawcI

From Wikipedia:

Beck and the Dolphins lost to the Eagles 17-7, failing to score on offense. In the game, Beck went just 9-for-22 (40.9%) for 109 yards and rushed twice for three yards. He was not sacked and committed no turnovers via fumble or interception.

Though Beck didn't play well. I like the way he moved in the pocket and a lot of those balls that were incomplete were close to being on target. Al lot of his poor play can be contributed to him being a rookie on a bad team.

He has good company for poor showings in his first four starts:

John Beck—First four 52.6, Career 62.0
Peyton Manning—First four 52.1, Career 94.9
Eli Manning—First four 31.4, Career 80.2
Alex Smith—First four 24.7, Career 72.1

http://realredskins.com/2011/05/compari ... rformance/

Who says Beck doesn't have an arm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBy7uIV ... re=related

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:07 am

Red_One43 wrote:Beck's debut for Miami in 2007.
Dolphins finish 1-15 that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXLIVDOawcI

From Wikipedia:

Beck and the Dolphins lost to the Eagles 17-7, failing to score on offense. In the game, Beck went just 9-for-22 (40.9%) for 109 yards and rushed twice for three yards. He was not sacked and committed no turnovers via fumble or interception.

Though Beck didn't play well. I like the way he moved in the pocket and a lot of those balls that were incomplete were close to being on target. Al lot of his poor play can be contributed to him being a rookie on a bad team.

He has good company for poor showings in his first four starts:

John Beck—First four 52.6, Career 62.0
Peyton Manning—First four 52.1, Career 94.9
Eli Manning—First four 31.4, Career 80.2
Alex Smith—First four 24.7, Career 72.1

http://realredskins.com/2011/05/compari ... rformance/

Who says Beck doesn't have an arm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBy7uIV ... re=related

I posted this on July 16th. When I look at that Video of Beck's performance against Miami and his debut, I see a lot of similarities with what I saw last night - movement in the pocket - accruacy - decision making (including knowing when to scramble). He has the attributes of a good QB. As I stated back then, Beck's poor performance with Miami can be attributed to being on a very poor team and I add now, that he was a rookie. With Beck's work ethic and more playing time, he should only get better. I clearly understand why The Shanahans are pushing for Beck to start. This offense is nade for QBs that can move.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:12 am

Red_One43 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:Beck's debut for Miami in 2007.
Dolphins finish 1-15 that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXLIVDOawcI

From Wikipedia:

Beck and the Dolphins lost to the Eagles 17-7, failing to score on offense. In the game, Beck went just 9-for-22 (40.9%) for 109 yards and rushed twice for three yards. He was not sacked and committed no turnovers via fumble or interception.

Though Beck didn't play well. I like the way he moved in the pocket and a lot of those balls that were incomplete were close to being on target. Al lot of his poor play can be contributed to him being a rookie on a bad team.

He has good company for poor showings in his first four starts:

John Beck—First four 52.6, Career 62.0
Peyton Manning—First four 52.1, Career 94.9
Eli Manning—First four 31.4, Career 80.2
Alex Smith—First four 24.7, Career 72.1

http://realredskins.com/2011/05/compari ... rformance/

Who says Beck doesn't have an arm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBy7uIV ... re=related

I posted this on July 16th. When I look at that Video of Beck's performance against Miami and his debut, I see a lot of similarities with what I saw last night - movement in the pocket - accruacy - decision making (including knowing when to scramble). He has the attributes of a good QB. As I stated back then, Beck's poor performance with Miami can be attributed to being on a very poor team and I add now, that he was a rookie. With Beck's work ethic and more playing time, he should only get better. I clearly understand why The Shanahans are pushing for Beck to start. This offense is nade for QBs that can move.

Well, I'll be! You have one good pre-season game and the NFL makes Youtube take Beck's video off - A NFL star was born last night - NFL sees $$$.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:44 am

I'm confused. It appears as thought you're having a conversation all by yourself.

I'm not going to give him the nod based off one preseason game that was vs Indy who's shown they lose every preseason game. Wins/Losses in preseason do not reflect regular season success. I will note that he moved the team down the field with ease but we failed to score TD's on 4 other red zone trips. Can't have that.

Pass was late to Armstrong that was nearly intercepted.

Pass was off target to WR #18 (who's name skips my memory) and he had to make a diving catch.

These are two plays that stick out but all in all, a good first outing. Need to build off that next week.

Redskins_Fanatic · Post by **Redskins_Fanatic** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:59 pm

I'm probably going to shock a lot of people with what I'm about to say....

I actually LIKED a lot of what I saw in the first half last night. I saw the game online and it was the Colts feed, but from what I could see, Beck looked REASONABLE. I'm not suggesting he's HOF material or the next addition to the Ring of Fame, but he was able to run the offense effectively and relatively efficiently.

No, I'm not a big fan of fieldgoals, and never have been. I also know that Shanny isn't going to show off the whole offense against Indy in the second week of the preseason. They also didn't gameplan for Indy. I know the Colts really don't care about the preseason, which is part of why I'm not going overboard with the praise, but they looked pretty decent. They moved the ball and got points. Even more importantly they didn't turn the ball over in the first half and I think the Grossman INT in the second half really hurt his chances to beat out Beck for the starting job.

I get the feeling (this is all OPINION) that you're going to see a lot of handoffs early in the season. I think the Shannahans will try to get the ground game going to take some of the pressure off of Beck and then use his mobility to put him in positions to make good throws when they're needed.

I'm less negative about this team after last night's game than I probably have been in 10 years. I'm not making any reservations for playoff tickets, nevermind the Super Bowl, but I get the feeling they MIGHT be a little better than I expected.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:09 pm

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:28 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I'm confused. It appears as thought you're having a conversation all by yourself.

Glad you could join us in the conversation. Now there is four - we now have Me, Myself and I plus You.

I'm not going to give him the nod based off one preseason game that was vs Indy who's shown they lose every preseason game. Wins/Losses in preseason do not reflect regular season success. I will note that he moved the team down the field with ease but we failed to score TD's on 4 other red zone trips. Can't have that.

Shanny seemed to have given him the nod before he even played a pre-season game. Winning the game had little to do with the evaluation of Beck. Practice is a major factor in coaches decisions. Pre-season games allow for a coach to see if the player can do it in a "game" situation. You said it - he moved the ball down the field. He also did not make any disasterous decisions. He managed the game. He also can make plays with his feet. Not making it in the end zone can also be a reflection on the play calling. Take the three step drop plays near the goal line - for some reason Beck was not getting the ball out of his hands - was it because the guy was covered? - good decision. Was it because he is too short? Was the D line getting too much push? Lot of factors.

Pass was late to Armstrong that was nearly intercepted.

Pass was off target to WR #18 (who's name skips my memory) and he had to make a diving catch. These are two plays that stick out

No QB is perfect, but 14 out of 17 isn't bad at all even for preseason.

but all in all, a good first outing. Need to build off that next week.

With Beck's work ethic the building has begun.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:54 pm

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:I'm probably going to shock a lot of people with what I'm about to say....

I actually LIKED a lot of what I saw in the first half last night. I saw the game online and it was the Colts feed, but from what I could see, Beck looked REASONABLE. I'm not suggesting he's HOF material or the next addition to the Ring of Fame, but he was able to run the offense effectively and relatively efficiently.

Well said. He did what the coaches were asking of him. Manage the offense and make plays with his feet.

No, I'm not a big fan of fieldgoals, and never have been. I also know that Shanny isn't going to show off the whole offense against Indy in the second week of the preseason. They also didn't gameplan for Indy. I know the Colts really don't care about the preseason, which is part of why I'm not going overboard with the praise, but they looked pretty decent. They moved the ball and got points. Even more importantly they didn't turn the ball over in the first half and I think the Grossman INT in the second half really hurt his chances to beat out Beck for the starting job.

I agree with you point. They moved the ball. We also got a bonus - game situation practice for Gano.

I get the feeling (this is all OPINION) that you're going to see a lot of handoffs early in the season. I think the Shannahans will try to get the ground game going to take some of the pressure off of Beck and then use his mobility to put him in positions to make good throws when they're needed.

I think that is what we saw last night.

I'm less negative about this team after last night's game than I probably have been in 10 years. I'm not making any reservations for playoff tickets, nevermind the Super Bowl, but I get the feeling they MIGHT be a little better than I expected.

Less negative - too me, you sounded more positive - Oh those perspectives. Just "a little better?" I think that the team has demonstrated "a little better" already. Of course, it does depend on how one defines better.

Redskins_Fanatic · Post by **Redskins_Fanatic** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Red_One43 wrote:Less negative - too me, you sounded more positive - Oh those perspectives. Just "a little better?" I think that the team has demonstrated "a little better" already. Of course, it does depend on how one defines better.

Yes, "less negative". It's pre-season. There are still plenty of reasons to hold one's breath on this team. We'll see what they're able to do next week, since game 3 of the pre-season is generally the "dress rehearsal" for the regular season, then into the first couple weeks of the real games (week 4 of preseason is generally worthless). I'm trying not to get too excited just to have the regular season come and cut my legs out from underneath me.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:27 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I'm confused. It appears as thought you're having a conversation all by yourself.

I'm not going to give him the nod based off one preseason game that was vs Indy who's shown they lose every preseason game. Wins/Losses in preseason do not reflect regular season success. I will note that he moved the team down the field with ease but we failed to score TD's on 4 other red zone trips. Can't have that.

Pass was late to Armstrong that was nearly intercepted.

Pass was off target to WR #18 (who's name skips my memory) and he had to make a diving catch.

These are two plays that stick out but all in all, a good first outing. Need to build off that next week.

I was at the game. When I got home & checked tha box score, I was amazed that Bexk cpmpleted such a high % of his passes. He held the ball too long many times.