2009 Jason Campnell Thread... this year makes or breaks him

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:21 pm

RayNAustin wrote:Fine .. you keep believing that.

This is what really cracks me up. It's not US who believes that, it's the PAID PROFESSIONALS who believe Campbell gives us the best chance to win. Don't you find it just a bit odd that there isn't ONE PAID PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERT who agrees with your contention that Collins is the better QB and gives this team the best chance to win? I mean, if you've got one, show us. Have fun searching...

ROTFALMAO

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:08 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Fine .. you keep believing that.

This is what really cracks me up. It's not US who believes that, it's the PAID PROFESSIONALS who believe Campbell gives us the best chance to win. Don't you find it just a bit odd that there isn't ONE PAID PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERT who agrees with your contention that Collins is the better QB and gives this team the best chance to win? I mean, if you've got one, show us. Have fun searching...

I suppose you missed the first play today ... a TD to Kelly missed by an underthrown ball ... result ... three and out instead of 7.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:12 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Fine .. you keep believing that.

This is what really cracks me up. It's not US who believes that, it's the PAID PROFESSIONALS who believe Campbell gives us the best chance to win. Don't you find it just a bit odd that there isn't ONE PAID PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERT who agrees with your contention that Collins is the better QB and gives this team the best chance to win? I mean, if you've got one, show us. Have fun searching...

I suppose you missed the first play today ... a TD to Kelly missed by an underthrown ball ... result ... three and out instead of 7.

No way to know if he would have scored. The past wasn't underthrown IT WAS THROWN LATE :cry:

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:25 pm

Regardless there was no one in front of him and JC fugged it up. It was like he was throwing a gotdern fade.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:33 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Regardless there was no one in front of him and JC fugged it up. It was like he was throwing a gotdern fade.

WHat's new?

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:31 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Fine .. you keep believing that.

This is what really cracks me up. It's not US who believes that, it's the PAID PROFESSIONALS who believe Campbell gives us the best chance to win. Don't you find it just a bit odd that there isn't ONE PAID PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERT who agrees with your contention that Collins is the better QB and gives this team the best chance to win? I mean, if you've got one, show us. Have fun searching...

I suppose you missed the first play today ... a TD to Kelly missed by an underthrown ball ... result ... three and out instead of 7.

Way to respond to the specifics of the post. Way to answer the specific question posed to you. Well done... Ray. I guess you saw Devin drop a TD pass. I guess you saw Sellers drop another TD pass. I guess Orakpo's late hit on Bulger that cost us a fumble recovery deep in their territory and Moss's fumble late in the 1st half also deep in their territory was somehow Campbell's fault too. Campbell looked very good in the first half. The lack of points wasn't his fault.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:55 pm

why is montgomery playing instead of rinehart?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:54 pm

Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:55 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:Fine .. you keep believing that.

This is what really cracks me up. It's not US who believes that, it's the PAID PROFESSIONALS who believe Campbell gives us the best chance to win. Don't you find it just a bit odd that there isn't ONE PAID PROFESSIONAL OR EXPERT who agrees with your contention that Collins is the better QB and gives this team the best chance to win? I mean, if you've got one, show us. Have fun searching...

I suppose you missed the first play today ... a TD to Kelly missed by an underthrown ball ... result ... three and out instead of 7.

Way to respond to the specifics of the post. Way to answer the specific question posed to you. Well done... Ray. I guess you saw Devin drop a TD pass. I guess you saw Sellers drop another TD pass. I guess Orakpo's late hit on Bulger that cost us a fumble recovery deep in their territory and Moss's fumble late in the 1st half also deep in their territory was somehow Campbell's fault too. Campbell looked very good in the first half. The lack of points wasn't his fault.

Every week, on every team, you can find three four, maybe 5 turnovers, drops, mistakes. And every team finds a way to still score A FREAKING TD.

You've been in love with Campbell for years.

OK ... paid professionals ... do you mean Jim "Don't I look Cool

in my Sunglasses" Zorn ?

This clown is NO EXPERT.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:56 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

they both suck. JC can't make the throws regardless of th call

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:01 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

they both suck. JC can't make the throws regardless of th call

Truer words have never been written.

Release Campbell, fire Zorn by midnight. Gives us a week to find someone to coach and someone to throw

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:01 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

I completely agree, SJ. I thought the lousy play calling last week was more of the problem verses a few bad plays from Campbell.

While I believe the play calling and the offense improved this week between the 20's, I thought the play calling was just horrible inside the red zone. But I still kinda remain optimistic, in that someone is going to have to confront Zorn about his play calling inside the red zone, and the recognition by Zorn that it stinks should, and I want to emphasis the word "should" make Zorn more aware that he needs to score points in those circumstances and that means allowing JC to throw the ball into the end zone and throwing on 1st downs inside the 10 yard line.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:15 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

I completely agree, SJ. I thought the lousy play calling last week was more of the problem verses a few bad plays from Campbell.

While I believe the play calling and the offense improved this week between the 20's, I thought the play calling was just horrible inside the red zone. But I still kinda remain optimistic, in that someone is going to have to confront Zorn about his play calling inside the red zone, and the recognition by Zorn that it stinks should, and I want to emphasis the word "should" make Zorn more aware that he needs to score points in those circumstances and that means allowing JC to throw the ball into the end zone and throwing on 1st downs inside the 10 yard line.

Delusional. Zorn's mentality and wisdom is established at his age, and you can't fix stupid. No more so than you can make Campbell think quicker

barriesargent · Post by **barriesargent** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:15 pm

I wish no ill will towards JC, but the best thing for the skins is for him to get injured so Collins can clean up. JZ is proving to be a less than adequate coach, especially in the RZ, and his tunnel vision on JC is really annoying. If JC does not get hurt and JZ does not pull him out, I predict a losing season for sure. And if that happens, JC will NOT be resigned (a good thing) and JZ gets axed (possibly a good thing). An owner like DS is not going to put up with this losing combination forever.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:20 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

I completely agree, SJ. I thought the lousy play calling last week was more of the problem verses a few bad plays from Campbell.

While I believe the play calling and the offense improved this week between the 20's, I thought the play calling was just horrible inside the red zone. But I still kinda remain optimistic, in that someone is going to have to confront Zorn about his play calling inside the red zone, and the recognition by Zorn that it stinks should, and I want to emphasis the word "should" make Zorn more aware that he needs to score points in those circumstances and that means allowing JC to throw the ball into the end zone and throwing on 1st downs inside the 10 yard line.

LMAO? He's just realizing it? This is nothing new, it's been happening since LAST year. When people said the offense looked the same they were masacred and it's been true thus far. Zorn is a moron, JC can't execute the good plays that are called. The two people most responsible for offensive production are incompetent and when you have guys dropping passes, it just multiplies.

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:27 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:LMAO? He's just realizing it? This is nothing new, it's been happening since LAST year. When people said the offense looked the same they were masacred and it's been true thus far. Zorn is a moron, JC can't execute the good plays that are called. The two people most responsible for offensive production are incompetent and when you have guys dropping passes, it just multiplies.

But this year's offense doesn't look like last year's offense if you watch the games. The passing offense is better, and the playcalling isn't as bad. But the big difference is that the OL's getting NO push in the running game, and with Thomas out, it's not going to get better. Campbell's individual success or failure now is a moot point. Pre-order your purple #17s today!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:33 pm

Paralis wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:LMAO? He's just realizing it? This is nothing new, it's been happening since LAST year. When people said the offense looked the same they were masacred and it's been true thus far. Zorn is a moron, JC can't execute the good plays that are called. The two people most responsible for offensive production are incompetent and when you have guys dropping passes, it just multiplies.

But this year's offense doesn't look like last year's offense if you watch the games. The passing offense is better, and the playcalling isn't as bad. But the big difference is that the OL's getting NO push in the running game, and with Thomas out, it's not going to get better. Campbell's individual success or failure now is a moot point. Pre-order your purple #17s today!

Not scoring points = the same
Not using tall WR's = the same
Horrible play calling = the same
Redzone failures = the same

Portis had a 4.4 YPC average and was fine throughout the game. The running game isn't THAT bad. And why would the running game be good when Zorn is running a 1 WR set in the rezone with Santana Moss? WHy would they cover the pass?

Sure, there are some minor differences but the end result is the same. Keep thinking we're fresh and brand new cus they aren't. We may be better between the 20's but just as bad in the redzone. AND THATS WHAT MATTERS.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:48 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Campbell certainly not going to be helped if Zorn does not re-invent himself and quickly

this HC is not going to be our HC much longer and I might not even want him as an offensive play caller either if he continues to manage games this badly

I completely agree, SJ. I thought the lousy play calling last week was more of the problem verses a few bad plays from Campbell.

While I believe the play calling and the offense improved this week between the 20's, I thought the play calling was just horrible inside the red zone. But I still kinda remain optimistic, in that someone is going to have to confront Zorn about his play calling inside the red zone, and the recognition by Zorn that it stinks should, and I want to emphasis the word "should" make Zorn more aware that he needs to score points in those circumstances and that means allowing JC to throw the ball into the end zone and throwing on 1st downs inside the 10 yard line.

LMAO? He's just realizing it? This is nothing new, it's been happening since LAST year. When people said the offense looked the same they were masacred and it's been true thus far. Zorn is a moron, JC can't execute the good plays that are called. The two people most responsible for offensive production are incompetent and when you have guys dropping passes, it just multiplies.

Completely agree. Although while I don't think JC is some fantastic QB, I did think he managed the game better today. He moved the ball very well all day. But Zorn's play calling inside the red zone and the drops by Thomas and Sellers didn't help JC very much.

waiting for markshark to say JC should have known better than to pass the ball to an open Sellers running free into the end zone. lol...

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:54 pm

I had to visit this post again.

You said...

Paralis wrote:But this year's offense doesn't look like last year's offense if you watch the games.

ANd then you follow it up with...

Paralis wrote: The passing offense is better, and the playcalling isn't as bad.

You just proved to me that you are NOT watching the games. LOL

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Portis's line was 19 for 79. That's 4.1, not 4.4.
Add Betts' and Mason's totals, and you get 26 carries for 97 yards, or 3.7YPC... against the Rams.

Sellers and Thomas won't always drop TDs. Thomas hopefully will learn that if he runs too close to the sideline, he doesn't leave room for Campbell to throw the ball away from coverage. Kelly hopefully will figure out that he's bigger than opposing cornerbacks and actually get off the jam, especially in the red zone.

But we're looking right now at starting Will Montgomery at RG next week. Or maybe Mike Williams, who's been out of football for two years and wasn't any good when he was on a roster. Or Chad Rinehart, who can't beat Mike Williams and dress on Sundays. And the running game's not going to look any better with any of those three on the field.

Yet somehow this is Campbell and Zorn's fault. I just know it!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:58 pm

Paralis wrote:Portis's line was 19 for 79. That's 4.1, not 4.4.
Add Betts' and Mason's totals, and you get 26 carries for 97 yards, or 3.7YPC... against the Rams.

He was at 4.4 YPC before ZORNS PLAY CALLING lowered it at the end of the game.

Paralis wrote:Kelly hopefully will figure out that he's bigger than opposing cornerbacks and actually get off the jam, especially in the red zone.

KELLY WASN'T EVEN IN! Zorn was running Moss.... Moss....

Paralis wrote:Or Chad Rinehart, who can't beat Mike Williams and dress on Sundays.

Why would Mike Williams a tackle be trying to beat Rhinehart who plays guard? Why would Williams be put in at guard anyway? This makes no sense at all.

Paralis wrote:Yet somehow this is Campbell and Zorn's fault. I just know it!

He is. And HE ADMITTED it in his press conference. You think he isn't, he said he is. Who do we believe? :roll:

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:04 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:He was at 4.4 YPC before ZORNS PLAY CALLING lowered it at the end of the game.

And if we cut out all of his negative plays, I'm sure he'd look better still. Don't get indignant if you get called out for cherry-picking stats.

KELLY WASN'T EVEN IN! Zorn was running Moss.... Moss....

Repeat after me: Moss plays split end. Kelly plays flanker. Each of these things are not like the other.

Why would Mike Williams a tackle be trying to beat Rhinehart who plays guard? Why would Williams be put in at guard anyway? This makes no sense at all.

Because Mike Williams has shown he doesn't have the lateral agility to play tackle in the NFL. It's why Buffalo cut him, and why JAX moved to guard. Guys don't get faster as they age.

He is. And HE ADMITTED it in his press conference. You think he isn't, he said he is. Who do we believe?

Yes. Clearly the fact that Zorn didn't call out Vinny for the OL depth means that it's not an issue. The fact that he'd not only get fired, but get blacklisted in the NFL, for the disloyalty has nothing to do with it. Nothing!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:11 pm

Paralis wrote:And if we cut out all of his negative plays, I'm sure he'd look better still. Don't get indignant if you get called out for cherry-picking stats.

Cherry picking? Not at all. CP was at 4.4 which is respectable and disproves your assertion that we couldn't run. We were running at will at some points. Zorn's play calling was predictable and hurt those stats at the end of the game.

Paralis wrote:Repeat after me: Moss plays split end. Kelly plays flanker. Each of these things are not like the other.

So...because it's not his position we shouldn't play the tall WR in the redzone? You sir and Jim Zorn! :lol:

Paralis wrote:Because Mike Williams has shown he doesn't have the lateral agility to play tackle in the NFL. It's why Buffalo cut him, and why JAX moved to guard. Guys don't get faster as they age.

He's not playing guard, regardless of your reasoning. He's our backup tackle and that's fact. Again, you are wrong but who's shocked?

Paralis wrote:Yes. Clearly the fact that Zorn didn't call out Vinny for the OL depth means that it's not an issue. The fact that he'd not only get fired, but get blacklisted in the NFL, for the disloyalty has nothing to do with it. Nothing!

Zorn stated that his pplay calling was questionable. You're mentioning Bs that doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. Zorn said his play calling was horrible. We're saying it's horrible and you're the ONE person on this board stating otherwise.

You sir are wrong across the board. I don't care to sway you because people with this mindset cannot be reasoned with.

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:22 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Cherry picking? Not at all. CP was at 4.4 which is respectable and disproves your assertion that we couldn't run. We were running at will at some points. Zorn's play calling was predictable and hurt those stats at the end of the game.

YPC is "yard per carry." Unless you're explicitly spelling out that you mean "yards per certain carry to prove a particular point," the rest of the world talks about it in terms of games, seasons, and careers. Because otherwise the number's meaningless.

So...because it's not his position we shouldn't play the tall WR in the redzone? You sir and Jim Zorn!

I don't know what your contention is here. Are you saying that Kelly wasn't on the field in the red zone today? Because that's unequivocally false.

He's not playing guard, regardless of your reasoning. He's our backup tackle and that's fact. Again, you are wrong but who's shocked?

He's not playing anything, because he's not getting live reps. He was a bust at tackle, a bust at guard, and to be generous, a question mark at tackle again this offseason. Whether he's a guard or a tackle's pretty immaterial. The point, which you're refusing to acknowledge, is that there's a difference between the problems that are likely to be repeated, and the problems that aren't. Better hands on offense makes this a 24-7 game. There isn't a single reserve OL on this team I'd want to see start a game without getting hugely drunk first.

Zorn stated that his pplay calling was questionable. You're mentioning Bs that doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. Zorn said his play calling was horrible. We're saying it's horrible and you're the ONE person on this board stating otherwise.

You sir are wrong across the board. I don't care to sway you because people with this mindset cannot be reasoned with.

I don't think you know what "across the board" means. I'm not a Zorn booster. He's going to be fired at the end of this season, and he's going to have a lot of trouble finding another job as anything more than a position coach in the NFL for a long time. But this isn't a team that's built for success, and we'd have the same problems on offense under Spags or Cowher or Shanahan or any other wished-for HC, and trying to shift the blame to Zorn for performing basically to potential seems to be so much petty scapegoating.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm

Paralis wrote:I don't know what your contention is here. Are you saying that Kelly wasn't on the field in the red zone today? Because that's unequivocally false.

At the end of the game we have one WR on the field and that was Santana Moss. He was on the field for about 7 plays or so. Why not have Kelly out there so that the defense has to respect a fade pass? Why make it easy for their defense to focus in on the run because they know we cannot possibly throw it to him.

This is part of the reason why the run was stuffed and our YARD PER CARRY dropped horribly.

1. Horrible play calling
2. Horrible personel decisions.

More of the same from last week (ie running a WR screen to Moss) and last year.