The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:33 am**

I'll be sure to bump this thread from now on.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:38 am**

» Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Albert Haynesworth, Shawn Springs, Adam Archuleta, Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd -- Snyder shopped at Versace, as Deion said. Too bad most of them were bigger busts than Dolly Parton.

I'm not sure why he included Shawn Springs and Albert Haynesworth to this list, but Shawn played pretty well for several years here and Hayneworth just got here. :roll:

You can go down the list of every NFL team and make a list of players that were signed as free agents that didn't help produce a championship. There have certainly been mistakes in the past and it's not like there wasn't a learning curve for the owner. But while some continue to harp on the mistakes of the past, what detracts from his and others articles is that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the positive things done.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:18 pm**

SkinsFreak wrote: You can go down the list of every NFL team and make a list of players that were signed as free agents that didn't help produce a championship. There have certainly been mistakes in the past and it's not like there wasn't a learning curve for the owner. But while some continue to harp on the mistakes of the past, what detracts from his and others articles is that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the positive things done.

I also have felt that while Snyder has made many mistakes with what he has done with the team, he has done many good things "off the field" that rarely (if ever) get reported or brought to light. The fact is that he's possibly a better person than he is an owner of a NFL team. It seems really damning that so many good long-term workers were replaced when he took over and that was a big mistake in my opinion.

My recent issues with Snyder are all due to the fact that we have nobody who really knows what they are doing with regards to managing an NFL franchise - I feel we would be better off with a real GM but then only if Snyder would not get 'involved' with anything to do with the product on the field and that is not going to happen. :cry:

I am encouraged that Snyder does appear to be improving but the reality is the results of his ownership are mediocre and he needs for that to change in order to get any measure of respect from his peers or the press. I doubt that there is much he can ever do to repair what he has done to a lot of Redskins' fans. in my opinion the phrase "winning cures everything" means that some people will be happy with only winning and that doing things right, even if it does not work, is wrong - that is also very short-sighted, but that's just me. :wink:

I am looking forward to seeing a Redskins team that plays hard for 60 minutes, each and every week, because each player and coach is driven by a desire to be the best, not to get paid the most :lol:

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:56 pm**

Listen, Snyder has made quite a few mistakes in the past signing past-their-prime players who did nothing but collect their paychecks. But many of those were years ago and things are in fact changing for the better. I recognize it and even if some still want to wear the blinders, that's their problem. Snyder hired Gibbs to set a new course for this franchise and Gibbs, with the help of Snyder and Cerrato, made great strides towards the betterment of the team.

But Gibbs retired. I've always loved Gibbs, but I really like having a more modern offense and I fully support Zorn. I like Zorn a lot and I'm in favor of the moves made by the team since Zorn's arrival. The FO has shown improvement and we're only one year into our new course of direction. I remain optimistic for this team.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:09 pm**

me too

hopefully Snyder let's everyone do their thing and keeps Cerrato out of the way :wink:

we shall see :twisted:

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:20 pm**

I really liked Gibbs too - it was hard to realize that he was not going to be as effective as he was when he left after the first go-round but I do think that his presence and his planning helped set the stage for where we are now - now we get to see if the guys in charge here can manage to continue the progress - I'm not as sure about that as others here but we'll soon find out.

With this defense and a resurgent Campbell and an energized Zorn, the sky's the limit - :twisted:

However - if we are not in first place at the end of the season, I hope Snyder has learned that the secret to success is not to just hire the best available coach OR bring in the star player, as he has done in the past. We need to build a team here. :wink:

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:42 pm**

SkinsFreak wrote:
» Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Albert Haynesworth, Shawn Springs, Adam Archuleta, Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd -- Snyder shopped at Versace, as Deion said. Too bad most of them were bigger busts than Dolly Parton.

I'm not sure why he included Shawn Springs and Albert Haynesworth to this list, but Shawn played pretty well for several years here and Hayneworth just got here. You can go down the list of every NFL team and make a list of players that were signed as free agents that didn't help produce a championship. There have certainly been mistakes in the past and it's not like there wasn't a learning curve for the owner. But while some continue to harp on the mistakes of the past, what detracts from his and others articles is that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the positive things done.

I was about to say that till I saw that you already had. I agree completely.

Posted: **Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:10 pm**

yupchagee wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
» Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Albert Haynesworth, Shawn Springs, Adam Archuleta, Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd -- Snyder shopped at Versace, as Deion said. Too bad most of them were bigger busts than Dolly Parton.

I'm not sure why he included Shawn Springs and Albert Haynesworth to this list, but Shawn played pretty well for several years here and Hayneworth just got here. You can go down the list of every NFL team and make a list of players that were signed as free agents that didn't help produce a championship. There have certainly been mistakes in the past and it's not like there wasn't a learning curve for the owner. But while some continue to harp on the mistakes of the past, what detracts from his and others articles is that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the positive things done.

I was about to say that till I saw that you already had. I agree completely.

Bruce Smith wasn't a bust either he was very effective for two to thre years (about what they planned on him playing) but his time here was tarnished by his sack chase season, his 4th and last with the Skins.

You can't put him in the bust category!

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:21 am**

AP INTERVIEW: Snyder on 10 years as owner

ASHBURN, Va. (AP) -Dan Snyder's shirt was soaked and his appetite was voracious, both the result of watching his Washington Redskins go through an offseason practice in humid northern Virginia heat. A nice spread of Thai food awaited him in his stylish office on the second floor of Redskins Park, along with a chance to reflect on his 10 years as one of the most scrutinized owners in the NFL.

Inside the room were two other Redskins employees. Snyder nodded toward one of them. ``He's 34 years old over here. He's probably too young to own a team,'' Snyder said. ``Maybe I was originally, as well.''
Snyder himself was 34 when, a decade ago this month, he became the youngest majority owner in the league, purchasing the team from the estate of the late Jack Kent Cooke. He instantly became a lightning rod for controversy, the new guy trying to shake up things before thoroughly learning the business.

Mission; fired a coach who had a winning record with three games left; and became personified as a heavy-handed rich kid intent on playing fantasy football and making lots of money - all within his first two years at the helm.

So now, when asked in an interview with The Associated Press why people love to pick on him, he didn't have to think hard to come up with a humbling answer. "I think I fueled the fire with some of the things I did,'' Snyder said. "I made some early, very silly mistakes, whether it be firing Norv Turner during a season, or training camp, trying to make it something special and grandiose when in reality it's a family event. I think that I didn't understand the game and the contracts and their lengths and the commitments. I learned an awful lot from Joe Gibbs in terms of the types of players we seek. ... I did some of that to myself." "On the other hand,'' he added, "once that snowball started rolling, there's a festering effect.''

Indeed, Snyder-bashing quickly took on a life of its own. Other teams have lost more over the last decade - Snyder's overall record of 76-84 with three playoff appearances is mediocre but certainly not awful. There are plenty of other rich and demanding owners, many of whom have fired good coaches, signed bad players and made a ton of other mistakes.
-unfriendly location of the Redskins' 12-year-old stadium. "I write back: 'I swear I wasn't here in '97,''' he said.

Hiring Steve Spurrier? It was a move many would have made, giving one of college football's most innovative coaches his shot at the NFL. It was just one of those things that didn't work out. "Things that we thought we were getting we weren't quite getting. He probably for his family and himself did the right thing by getting out of the NFL.''

Joe Gibbs? It was certainly a no-brainer to bring back a Hall of Fame coach, and the result was modestly successful: two playoff appearances in four seasons before Gibbs retired again at the end of the 2007 season. Snyder and Gibbs still talk frequently, and the owner has a proud place in his office for a book homemade by Gibbs' wife, Pat, inscribed with the words: "Thanks to the Snyders. So many photos were taken by so many different people, but these are the ones that were special to us. Hail to the Redskins.''

Jim Zorn? Snyder sees a bit of his 1999 self in the man who went 8-8 after a 6-2 start last season in his rookie year as a head coach. "When I first got here: the media, the scrutiny, the criticism, the praise, the cheers, the idea of some instant success. I had some as well when I first got here, and sometimes it's not the best thing for you. Sometimes it's best the other way around: You build that success, and I've learned that throughout the years.''

Vinny Cerrato? Well, the jury's very much still out on Snyder's personnel guy, and whether the Redskins would be better off with a traditional general manager. "I feel like he's done some real good things and a few bad things, like everyone,'' Snyder said. "There's no one in this business who doesn't make mistakes.''

Snyder does deserves credit for assembling an extensive Redskins charitable network. Sure, it's something that's come to be expected from all pro teams these days, but community outreach was negligible by comparison under Cooke. "It's been overlooked, absolutely,'' said Snyder, who this year received the Community MVP Award at the Washington Football Legends for Charity banquet. "Because it's not a great sound bite: The owner of the Redskins built a whole bunch of education stuff at schools. That's not glamorous. It's a whole lot more glamorous to say we're signing X, Y, Z free agents.''

Then talked about his own three children. He's teaching his 7-year-old son how to fish, and the boy starts playing tackle football for the time next month. His kids love art, and lot of hikes in Aspen were on the itinerary for this year's summer vacation. "I lost 30 pounds by getting in shape,'' he said. "It just fitness stuff and trying not to eat too many cheeseburgers. We love the outdoor stuff.''

The small talk is a big deal. The Dan Snyder of 10 years ago was too busy trying to conquer the world in a day - or at least win the Super Bowl in a year - to engage in such banter. "I was just an eager young guy, and now I'm 'seasoning," he said. "And I've enjoyed probably the last five, six years the most. The understanding for me is really developing.''

No fewer than four times over the last decade, Snyder has been shaken by tragedy and sickness. He survived a bout with thyroid cancer in 2001. His father, Gerald Snyder, died in 2003. His wife, Tanya, is battling breast cancer. And in his office is the last jersey Sean Taylor wore before the talented safety was shot and killed in 2007. Said Snyder, the emotion showing in his voice. "We go through that phase in life when we think our parents aren't that sharp and we end up realizing that they're extremely sharp. ... He was more patient than me - always. He was less knee-jerk. He was more 'Let's sit and talk about it.''

"And my wife recently getting sick,'' Snyder said, "has just sort of put a perspective on family.'' Snyder then pointed to a photo of him and Taylor about to exchange fist bumps. "That's about a month before he passed,'' Snyder said. "Before the game. He was horsing around. He always came over. What a great, great person. It's a shame the misperception on him was so strong versus the reality.''

This is not to say that Snyder has become a softy. Those who do business with him say he's still demanding and often confrontational. He remains the champion of the offseason, seemingly always the first on the phone in the wee hours of free agency in winter, paying whatever it takes to get a coveted player as soon as humanly possible. This year, he set an NFL record by signing Albert Haynesworth a contract that included $41 million in guaranteed money.

It's been a learning experience for me, and it's been great. I started off awfully young. I feel like I'm finally coming into my own.'' Next week, Snyder will oversee the start of his 11th training camp, full of optimism once again. "I think we're pretty good,'' he said.

So how will Snyder's world look 10 years from now? "I hope we have a few Super Bowl trophies and I hope we have some division championships,'' he said.

Then he smiled. "And I expect to have a lot of gray hair.''

I'll give him a little credit for the public recognition of his past mistakes. Not many folks in a prominent position such as his would admit to such wrongdoing. It does appear the past few years have been better, and we can all probably credit Joe Gibbs for that. Here's hoping it continues to get better in the future. Didn't know about his family hardships though, that has to be tough.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:48 am**

A good read. I didn't know about his hardships, either. I really do think he's getting better in his years. We made one big splash and one borderline resigning that could be overpaid, but I think with our selections so far, we're on a better path than the first decade.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:58 am**

I knew about all of those hardships he has/is dealing with and I feel bad for him in regards to all those on a human level but as an owner and as far as his personality goes, I have zero sympathy for him. This article has not changed my mind about anything. He will never learn.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am**

Jake wrote:I knew about all of those hardships he has/is dealing with and I feel bad for him in regards to all those on a human level but as an owner and as far as his personality goes, I have zero sympathy for him. This article has not changed my mind about anything. He will never learn.

When you're contrite and openly admit fault, that's a sign of learning and changing. You're are entitled to feel whichever way you desire, but the facts do bear evidence that it's been getting better over the past few years. He was 34 when he bought the team and openly acknowledges he made mistakes early on... which one might expect from someone gaining such a prominent position at such a young age.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:21 am**

Nice to see him maturing, I can appreciate and relate to that. But in a way he has failed, why not give this sob story to a local paper? Why not reach out and be the bigger man to mend broken relationships. If you're that humble, approach them in that capacity and explain that you want to bridge the gap and have a honest interview.

He gives this to the AP...

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:24 am**

Jake wrote:I knew about all of those hardships he has/is dealing with and I feel bad for him in regards to all those on a human level but as an owner and as far as his personality goes, I have zero sympathy for him. This article has not changed my mind about anything. He will never learn.

agreed - there is no way he will change :cry:

It's really a little scary that he thinks this team is "pretty good"- we are coming off an 8-8 record that, while it included a 6-2 beginning, really showed we had a lot of work to do to both lines, the receivers, the QB and yes even the "rookie" coach.

we'll see what happens this year and I for one hope that we keep Zorn even if we go 8-8 or 9-7 - the ONLY reason to change our HC should be because he has shown he cannot get it done. I believe there is a great chance that Snyder will fire him just because there is a new "toy" on the shelf looking for a 'payday' - that's the way of the Snyder run Redskins - we are destined for mediocrity with this guy.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:54 am**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Nice to see him maturing, I can appreciate and relate to that. But in a way he has failed, why not give this sob story to a local paper? Why not reach out and be the bigger man to mend broken relationships. If you're that humble, approach them in that capacity and explain that you want to bridge the gap and have a honest interview.

He gives this to the AP...

Exactly... he still doesn't talk to fans at all. The only time I ever see him interacting with the public is one time a year during the Thanksgiving turkey hand out at FedEx Field.

He still doesn't talk to the papers. If he truly has changed, he will build up an everday rapport with the media and rebuild his image but he has thin skin and can't take the same criticism he's giving himself from other people. It shows he still hasn't grown up at all.

He still doesn't build the team the right way. He's trying to buy all of the local sports stations so no one speaks the truth about him and the team. He is the ESPN of NFL owners and wants to control what we see and hear on the TV and radio.

Leonsis is VERY accessible to the fans, wears a jersey to every game and knows how to interact with the public and newspapers. He sells out arenas like Snyder does with FedEx Field but does it THE RIGHT WAY.

Snyder NEVER will as long as he's making his money.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:46 am**

Jake wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Nice to see him maturing, I can appreciate and relate to that. But in a way he has failed, why not give this sob story to a local paper? Why not reach out and be the bigger man to mend broken relationships. If you're that humble, approach them in that capacity and explain that you want to bridge the gap and have a honest interview.

He gives this to the AP...

Exactly... he still doesn't talk to fans at all. The only time I ever see him interacting with the public is one time a year during the Thanksgiving turkey hand out at FedEx Field.

He still doesn't talk to the papers. If he truly has changed, he will build up an everday rapport with the media and rebuild his image but he has thin skin and can't take the same criticism he's giving himself from other people. It shows he still hasn't grown up at all.

He still doesn't build the team the right way. He's trying to buy all of the local sports stations so no one speaks the truth about him and the team. He is the ESPN of NFL owners and wants to control what we see and hear on the TV and radio.

Leonsis is VERY accessible to the fans, wears a jersey to every game and knows how to interact with the public and newspapers. He sells out arenas like Snyder does with FedEx Field but does it THE RIGHT WAY.

Snyder NEVER will as long as he's making his money.

I live in Colorado, and the contrast of Snyder couldn't be more stark. One of the bloggers here started a site awhile back called firegeorgekarl.com (coach of the nuggets). This blogger routinely meets and talks with NBA owners at the game. He emails the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, and gets responses about half the time. He recently went to a summer league game and ran into the entire nuggets FO, several assistant coaches, and George Karl himself. All of them, including Karl, spoke with him and gave him lots of time. Karl even agreed to meet for a lunch interview at a future time. This being the person who advocated firing Karl.

Another symptom of Synder's problem is his insistence that even his top employees call him "Mr." Snyder. It's ridiculous. Sure, the ballboy should call him "Mr.", but for the head coach to not be able to call his employer by his first name is assinine. In my previous job as an CPA, I met the top people at many companies, including the surgeon general of the U.S. At the time I was fresh out of college and the lowest man on the team, but all of them expected me to address them as equals and on a first name basis.

I agree, the only way Snyder will change is if we hit him in the wallet. The only money he will see from me from now on is his share of the TV and Directv revenues.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:09 am**

Why does the owner have to talk to the fans? I would rather him shut up and run the operation in the background and let the coaches and players be the faces of the franchise.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:13 am**

I can't even lie to you folks.. I'd never boycot a game if I had an oppurtunity to go.. I just can't get tickets all the time so the few times I do, I have to make the most out of it. I understand why we as fans dog the man but recently he's seem to be doing a little better and lets face it.. we're fans of the Skins entire organization, not 1 player or 1 owner will ever change that. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, don't jump on me but even if we don't like the president (past or current) of our country, will we turn against the US or support our big guy because he's OUR big guy and this is OUR country? Does that make sense folks? Let's give Snyder a pass and see what happens; 1st year of Zorn, 8-8..average but better than having a losing record. HTTR

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:18 am**

Cappster wrote:Why does the owner have to talk to the fans? I would rather him shut up and run the operation in the background and let the coaches and players be the faces of the franchise.

By avoiding interaction with the public, Snyder is able to maintain the "Bubble" around him of yes men and sycophants who are entirely dependent on him. He is able to maintain the delusion that he is doing a good job and that his customers are satisfied. Good leaders go out of their way to burst the bubble and get feedback from outside sources. I can't find the link, but there was a story a while back that Snyder believes the fans are happy with him because they buy a lot of stuff and he has a big season ticket wait list. He is mistaking loyalty to the team with happiness with him. Let him mingle in the stands a few minutes each game and he'd find out how satisfied his customers are with his job performance.

Snyder, not the coaches and players, is largely responsible for player acquisition and the methods by which they are acquired. Making the coach and the players accept the public feedback for that is cowardly.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:18 am**

Cappster wrote:Why does the owner have to talk to the fans? I would rather him shut up and run the operation in the background and let the coaches and players be the faces of the franchise.

To improve his image and actually acknowledge the people that keep his billion-dollar venture afloat. You know... the people that support his venture despite him doing everything in his power to wring every dollar out of their wallets without giving them a worthwhile gameday experience or quality approach to building a franchise.

He has shut up for most of the last 7-8 years but has run the operation improperly and into the ground.

And how can he let coaches and players be faces of the franchise when they're only here for a couple years at a time?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:24 am**

langleyparkjoe wrote:I can't even lie to you folks.. I'd never boycot a game if I had an oppurtunity to go.. I just can't get tickets all the time so the few times I do, I have to make the most out of it. I understand why we as fans dog the man but recently he's seem to be doing a little better and lets face it.. we're fans of the Skins entire organization, not 1 player or 1 owner will ever change that. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, don't jump on me but even if we don't like the president (past or current) of our country, will we turn against the US or support our big guy because he's OUR big guy and this is OUR country? Does that make sense folks? Let's give Snyder a pass and see what happens; 1st year of Zorn, 8-8..average but better than having a losing record.

Just because someone is elected President doesn't mean that all dissent should be silenced. Just the opposite in fact - the dissenters have a duty to make their voices heard, and hopefully the group in power (either side) will hear those dissents and use the good pieces to make improvements. When a group is exposed only to those who agree with their point of view, they tend to overlook things and make mistakes, and bad things happen.

Snyder was never elected, so explain to me exactly what he has done to earn our loyalty?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:27 am**

SnyderSucks wrote:Snyder was never elected, so explain to me exactly what he has done to earn our loyalty?

That's subjective, apparently, but why then are we all loyal to the Redskins?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:27 am**

Jake wrote:despite him doing everything in his power to wring every dollar out of their wallets

I completely agree that he needs to rehab his image with the fans...and his PR guys are just terrible.

However, if he was really doing everything in his power to wring every dollar out of the fans' wallets, he would have raised ticket prices more often than he has; twice in the entire time he's owned the Redskins. He doesn't do PSLs, either, which are purely a screw-job to the fans.

The Ravens, on the other hand, have raised ticket prices every other year, and who brought (if I remember right) the PSL to the NFL.

And he could certainly raise ticket prices...as of November 2008, the Redskins had only the 10th highest average ticket price, behind teams like Kansas City and Indianapolis, both of whom are situated in far less affluent areas than Washington.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:36 am**

There are different leadship styles and no one right way to do things in professional life. One example of a successful leader does not make a cookie cutter and the only way to be successful in an ownership.

I like to look back and from previous posts, we have a lot of questionable signings, but as we get more recent, the busts are less and less. Could this be a sign of positive evolution?

I would like to believe as an owner, he's evolving. Really, the guy was 34 when he took over. Think how young 34 is to have the responsibility he was. He was the youngest majority shareholder EVER. Especially as a fan, I bet part of it on some level, was like a super-incredible fantasy team. I don't see him operating the same he was a 7-10 years ago. I see more sound decisions being made. He's still relatively young.

Hope for the best, expect the worst, and we'll fall somewhere in between. Don't give up before the benefit of a doubt is given.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:43 am**

SnyderSucks wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:I can't even lie to you folks.. I'd never boycot a game if I had an oppurtunity to go.. I just can't get tickets all the time so the few times I do, I have to make the most out of it. I understand why we as fans dog the man but recently he's seem to be doing a little better and lets face it.. we're fans of the Skins entire organization, not 1 player or 1 owner will ever change that. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, don't jump on me but even if we don't like the president (past or current) of our country, will we turn against the US or support our big guy because he's OUR big guy and this is OUR country? Does that make sense folks? Let's give Snyder a pass and see what happens; 1st year of Zorn, 8-8..average but better than having a losing record.

Just because someone is elected President doesn't mean that all dissent should be silenced. Just the opposite in fact - the dissenters have a duty to make their voices heard, and hopefully the group in power (either side) will hear those dissents and use the good pieces to make improvements. When a group is exposed only to those who agree with their point of view, they tend to overlook things and make mistakes, and bad things happen.

Snyder was never elected, so explain to me exactly what he has done to earn our loyalty?

I feel you bro, good points indeed.. to answer your question though, he hasn't done anything in paticular to "earn" my loyalty but by default he'll have it cause he owns the Redskins.

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Dan Snyder 3rd Worst Owner in NFL