Skin vs Pack Post-Game chat.

[CanesSkins26]

Why am I mentioning the rain so much?

Because I don't get this entire thread and crying that is going on. Sure they lost and it sucked and they could should of etc.

But I am willing to let the fumbles and drops slide becuase of how bad that field and rain was.

You want to know why the rain didn't effect GB? Because ST was catching or dropping Favre's passes.

Considering all this I am upset we lost but I am not upset after this game like everyone else is. I think it is silly to be calling for players and coaches heads after this game.

Yeah it rained and that was a good reason behind all the drop passes and why we lost IMO.

Just my

You are making a much bigger deal out of the rain than it actually was. The receivers just didn't show up to play. ey was catching everything thrown his way and I didn't see JC (who would be most affected by a wet ball) have any problems. He was on target with just about every pass that he threw. I also don't think that CP's fumble had anything to do with the rain. He was by himself against 4 defenders, covered the ball with both hands, but his shoulder down, and it looked like one of the defenders put his helmet right on the ball. That ball is more than likely coming out in any weather.

The ball was slick and I am not willing to sell out Moss as quickly as others are because of drop passes this week (although I have been concerned about previous week drop passes). ARE has been near perfect this season and he dropped one and well as some others and JC himself fumbled too. To call for Moss to be benched is a tad on the

Oh, I'm with you on not selling Moss out after one game. Bottom line is he had a bad game and his play was a major factor in the loss, Moss himself said so. I just don't think that the weather had anything to do with his poor play. More likely it's the injury and not having practiced much this week. Moss hasn't been healthy all season and I'm sure that the injury is on his mind during games. As far as benching Moss, that's pretty ridiculous as well. The only way he should be on the bench is if he isn't healthy enough to play.

[GSPODS]

Tough game. A lot of mistakes. And best of all. . .here comes all of the inaccurate analysis by THN resident board experts. . .

I'll attempt to be accurate if it will get you to stop doing that with your eyes.

It appears only the healthy players on the Redskins' offense are the players who made plays this weekend. This game ended with only one offensive lineman who was supposed to be a starter this season still playing. Without offensive line continuity of some sort, the run blocking is inept. Clinton Portis is not healthy. He can't possibly be. One particular play comes to mind. Portis had nothing between him and the end zone other than his bad right knee and had no speed whatsoever. Most of us have moved faster to catch the beer man.

There is no convincing me Santana Moss is healthy either. He could not make any sharp "cuts" on receiving routes, he could not seem to find the holes in the coverage, and he could not catch the ball. Keenan McCardell got "open" far more than Moss did. So did James Thrash. And while I am discussing receiving, the one play that almost worked brilliantly missed by perhaps 6 inches. OK. Why did they not attempt it again? Brandon Lloyd was the only receiver who got behind the coverage the entire game.

There is no reasonable explanation for the following:

When two players, one a receiver and the other a defender, both have two hands on the football possession is supposed to stay with the offense. Troy Aikman pointed this out. No challenge, no questions asked.

At least one of the camera angles I saw showed that Portis knee was either down or close enough to down to consider challenging the fumble. Gibbs & Company didn't even blink.

Allowing :35 seconds to run off the clock before the two minute warning as though your team has the lead. If anyone can explain this logically I must be on the planet Gubus.

The defense did their job. They gave the offense a chance to win the game.

[SkinsJock]

The questionable call about the possession of the ball is a judgement call and these calls cannot be reviewed. Protesting is just a waste of time - Gibbs knows that.

No one call or play or player cost us this game - we had a lot of mistakes by everyone both on the field and on the sidelines - we had this game won if we had just executed as well as we are capable, no one even had to be special - this is just a game that we will look back on and say "we could just as easily have won this game".

Now, if the Packers are considered any good, and, from the BS that is appearing in the media, it appears they are considered a very good NFC team, then, I will say we can also consider the Washington Redskins at that level too. There was at least 1 media guy from Green Bay who said that they were very lucky to win that game.

C'mon guys - we are 3-2 and we just as easily could be 5-0 We are still not that bad a team and we are certainly not that good based on the number of mental errors that we have been making by both the players and the coaches.

We are certainly one of the better NFC teams and need to start playing smart football - We are just 1 game out of 1st place in the NFC East and none of those teams can say they are much better (if at all) than we are

[Snout]

My thoughts in the after-hours of agony:

(1) It is really hard to get into a rhythm when you are reshuffling the line because of injuries and receivers are dropping passes. Sometimes that's going to happen . . . but why all in the second half? Lack of mental discipline.

(2) I have more confidence in the Redskins passing game than the running game these days - a strange reversal from the Brunell days. I worry about Portis's durability, and I think we hurt ourselves if we play him while he is hurt. I would rather see more of Betts and let Clinton heal.

(3) The clock management and halftime adjustments are serious problems. The Redskins of old were a better 2nd half team. This team is a first half team that seems to have trouble concentrating in the third and fourth quarters. That is a coaching problem.

(4) The OL injuries are yet another sign that it is a foolish and risky inventment to throw all the big money at probowl caliber linemen. Depth is so critical, and it is so hard to find quality depth when you have so little room to maneuver with the salary cap. Sure I miss Jansen and Thomas, but we will be okay without them -- assuming that we can find guys who can play at nearly the same level for league minimum salary.

(5) Kudos to Moss for taking himself out when he realized he was not able to perform at the level we need him to perform at. Let the guy heal up and give B. Lloyd a few more looks.

[VetSkinsFan]

I didn't post this yesterday becuase it would have been an entirely irrational (even for me) post.

Here goes:


O-Line -- We will continue to lose close games that we should have won when we lose 1-3 lineman a WEEK. We have no gel with our line when we can't play 'em together. Just the way it is. This impacts the COMPLETE offense, starting with the run game. When you can't open holes, you can't run. This, in turn, affects the pasing game. When your opponent knows with almost certainty that they only need 5-6 to stuff your inefficient run game, then that leaves 6-7 back in coverage vs the pass. In addition to the pass coverage, back-ups provide less protection than your starters, or your back-ups would be starting. Our o-Line problems affect EVERY aspect of the offense.

WRs -- affected by O-Line as stated above. Also, STOP DROPPING BALLS. I would have pulled Moss out after the 3rd drop. It's obvious he's not 100%. You aren't inactive one week and 100% the next. ARE was questionable in my mind, but still caught balls.

RBs -- affected by O-Line as stated above. I also don't believe CP is 100%, as GSPODS stated. Nothing additional to add.

QB -- affectd by O-Line as stated above. Get those passes out quicker. Look off coverages better. All in all he did pretty damn good, but there's still room for improvement.


Defense: pretty good IMO. Held GB's offense to 10 pts.

D-Line -- could get a little more pressure, but adequate IMO. PHILLIP DANIELS DIDN'T GET HURT THIS WEEK!!!!

LB -- Seemed to me to do a pretty good job. Didn't see 'em get blown up and the passing game was held in check. Besides that one long pass that CR blew (More on that) the LB and DBs did great. 188 yds is quite acceptable IMO.

DB -- CR strikes again. Nice blown tackle that set up the touchdown. Can always count on CR to blow ONE big play. ST was killin Favre's int total, but should have had it a lot higher. I saw at LEAST 2, maybe three more that he could have had. Still, ST did quite well with footwork on the INTs. The man is coming into his own this year, and I'm excited every week to watch him. Smoot got lucky on that shove out on GB's TE. All in all, the DBs (short of CR's immaculate miss) did pretty damn well.


Coaching -- HORRIBLE. clock management was horrid. Those back to back time outs were unacceptable. They should have discussed 4th down on that 3rd down time out. Someone needs a swift kick for that there. The Betts in the flat was a fiasco. Watching any kind of game tape would SHOW that we like the flat in a situation like that. Those couple of plays completely negate the rest of the first half. 2nd half was conservative. You won't win in a fight to the death oif you don't go for the throat and every game is a fight to the death.

Officiating -- HORRIBLE. TE for GD should have had 6. ARE should have had that catch. Thrash offsetting penalties-hard to have illegal contact when the DB never let go of the 'jam.' Horrible horrible.



All in all, I still think we are doing pretty well considering our injuries to our line. I don't know much about conditioning short of what we did in the Army(talk about a poor point of reference), but would the strength and conditioning coach be held accountable for all these hamstrings/groins? I know some are legit and couldn't be avoided, but god, we've had like a dozen hamstrings/groins this year already.

[Cappster]

Observations:

1. Sean Taylor could've had 4 interceptions yesterday. Still, he played very well and is having a pro bowl type season. I hope he gets signed to an extension soon.

2. ey is our most reliable offensive threat. He is another player who I think is having a pro bowl type year.

3. Campbell needs more help from his WR's. Too many dropped balls yesterday. Moss hasn't played well all year and yesterday he hit rock bottom.

4. Defense is clearly one of the best in the league allowing only 10pts. I was shocked at times when I only saw 3 lineman rushing the qb. Obviously, it worked well for us so no complaints there.

5. Our offensive line concerns me. Pretty soon we will just have to put warm bodies out there and hope we can trip the opposing team.

6. I still believe that this team will continue to gel on offense. I have believed all along that it would be about mid season before we actually started doing things we need to do on offense. Lets see what happens against AZ. If we score 24pts in that game, we will win pretty handily.

[roybus14]

"....One particular play comes to mind. Portis had nothing between him and the end zone other than his bad right knee and had no speed whatsoever. Most of us have moved faster to catch the beer man."

I saw that too and I thought he was gonna break it off.

But on the real, I've read through alot of the posts on this thread and have heard the "weather" come up a couple of times. For those folks that don't know, it was raining on the Packers too and the ball and field was just as wet and slick for them too. We just didn't get it done yesterday, bottom-line.....

I've listened to Comcast and 980 to hear what the "heads" have to say. Alot of good points but also some bung as well.

Here's what I see:

1. Still confusion as to who's running the offense, Gibbs or Saunders, plus very poor clock and game management.

2. JC has still needs to improve on his reads (had McCardell wide open in the slot on that pass to Betts that got stuffed).

3. We need a bigger WR that JC can see and they can make a play on balls in the slots or balls that are thrown high (a taller possession WR). ARE and Moss are small and better suited for the speed routes, quick hitches, and routes deep.

4. The "Animal Trainer" needs to keep them going on what they are doing and the defense will be top five all year.

5. Improve special teams on punt and kick returns. Take ARE off punts because he has stepped up as a weapon at WR and put somebody else back there to make plays, be it Thrash or Cartwright.

6. Find another "go-to" guy besides ey so that we have more than one thread and teams have to plan for two games in the passing game. ARE may have stepped up but he, IMO, is still not that other "go to" guy. The other "go to" guy should be getting 5 or more balls a game along with ey.

7. At this point, what would it hurt to play Lloyd more?? Especially on deep crossing and slot routes. I said it last week that he has to catch the ball when he get's chances but they need to play him more to get those chances. I think he should have caught that deep ball yesterday and he missed another chance but at least he had the steps on the DB's to get that chance.

8. Eliminate the "two back" system and put it on CP's shoulders until he get's tired or hurt. Then call plays that utilizes Clinton's strength's which are running outside. I think that this "two back" system is causing confusion in the play calling as well as limiting each guy's ability to get into a rhythm. Yes I know the O-Line has got injury problems but you line Sellers up behind Samuels and Kendall and smash em' in the mouth with Portis, it would be hard to stop.

[SkinsJock]

Guys! We are:
# 3 Total defense
# 3 Scoring defense
# 5 Passing defense
# 6 Rushing defense

and that is for 5 games in the NFL - we are the top NFC defense

The whole offense - coaches and players need to step up big time - We not only have to get guys to catch the ball we also have to get Campbell to put it where they can catch it - he has had 12 games now - this guy was going to dedicate the off-season to being a better QB and that included working with the WRs in his words "whatever it takes" - he needs to make better passes - his passes need to be caught but that IMO is mainly on him NOT his wideouts.

We are 3-2 but we could be 5-0 just as easily - there is no single part of this team that lost those 2 games but we need to play a lot smarter

[VetSkinsFan]

Um, I think I can say, with his bad day, that Moss lost this last game. FIVE DROPS, AT LEAST and a fumble returned for an touchdown. The questionable call with HIS tip when ARE and GB DB got the ball simultaneously and was called INT was HIS FAULT. I'm not throwing Moss under the bus, but I'm going to call it how I see it. I think he will bounce back, but this was his loss IMO.

[grampi]

Let me just make note of the Lions game before I make my because I know someone is going to mention it. I know the Skins scored 34 points against the Lions, but the Lions don't count when it comes to measuring how good or bad the Skins are. If the Skins played the Lions every week we'd go 16-0. Pure and simple, the Skins just have the Lions number.

That said, the Packers game looked exactly like the Giants game whereas the Skins played a good first half, then came out and fell flat on their faces offensively in the second half. The Skins have to be THE WORST team I've ever watched in terms of making halftime adjustments. The adjusments made at halftime are supposed to allow the team to be MORE productive, not LESS productive. They are going to have to figure out what is going wrong in the second half or the losses will start to mount. Our defense is playing well enough now that we should coming away from these games with a win. Anytime your D holds the other team to 17 points or less, that should be a win for us. Our offense is losing these games, and with the players we have, we should be scoring in the 30's every game. Gibbs and Saunders; please get this offense on track!

[SKINFAN]

He took himself out of the game, which is good. The O had plenty of chances to get within FG range and have sushi kung fu kick it... Its hard seeing a game like that, the defense gave everything they had, got the ball back, put the fire out.. This offense need to get rolling, honeymoon period is over, time to earn them gamechecks.

[grampi]

Every year it's the same old story; over paid players and coaches under achieve to rack up a bunch of losses to further embarrass this once great franchise and its loyal fans. Oh, how I miss the good ol' days!

[roybus14]

Guys! We are:
# 3 Total defense
# 3 Scoring defense
# 5 Passing defense
# 6 Rushing defense

and that is for 5 games in the NFL - we are the top NFC defense

The whole offense - coaches and players need to step up big time - We not only have to get guys to catch the ball we also have to get Campbell to put it where they can catch it - he has had 12 games now - this guy was going to dedicate the off-season to being a better QB and that included working with the WRs in his words "whatever it takes" - he needs to make better passes - his passes need to be caught but that IMO is mainly on him NOT his wideouts.

We are 3-2 but we could be 5-0 just as easily - there is no single part of this team that lost those 2 games but we need to play a lot smarter

I hear you SJ. Yes JC does need to improve on his touch but those drops yesterday were inexcusable. If you are an NFL WR and can get two hands up to the ball, unless that ball is traveling at some unusually high speed or completely covered with ice, you should make the catch. I remember watching our current Director of Player Development catch a one-handed touchdown pass in the back of the end zone in sub-zero temperatures against the Bengals back in the early 1980's. He bascially pulled in a brick it was so cold that day, one-handed. WR's all over this league make catches of balls that are thrown far worst than the one's that JC threw yesterday and still make the catch. So let's not put this all on JC. These guys have been dropping balls, bottom line....

[grampi]

JC didn't lose this game, the entire offense did. Whenever you score 0 points thru two quarters of football, your entire offense is the the problem.

[Deadskins]

Also GB defense is better than Detroit

If any single factor cost this game, it was dropped and tipped passes...

None of those were influenced by the Green Bay defense.

And that "pick" by Woodson... what a hideous call. Dual possession, all the way... goes to the Skins.

I was trying to make it all the way through the thread before I wrote my first post, but I have to respond to this. Once again a Redskins game is marred by horrible officiating. It doesn't just happen to us either. The NFL seriously needs to do something. Bad calls went both ways, but that was no interception. A tie goes to the offense. The intentional grounding call on JC also was a blown call. The defender yanked his arm down as he was passing the ball. Favre should have had a TD pass, on what was a force out by Carlos Rogers. JC was blocked in the back on the Moss fumble return. Horrible spot on ey's 4th quarter catch that preceded the 4th down play. And the list goes on and on. That being said, this was the Redskins game to lose. Instead of a timeout, Gibbs should have challenged the spot on ey's catch. Worst case scenario, we get the TO anyway. Best case, we get a first down, and are in great shape to win the game, or at least tie it up on a FG. We have to take the final timeout before the two minute warning. Why isn't anyone in Joe's ear about this? How many coaches do we need for at least one to have a sense for clock management? Carlos Rogers has to go low when tackling. How you think throwing a shoulder high on a player that outweighs you by 50 pounds is going to bring him down is beyond me. Landry also took a poor line on that play. If you are going to go for it on 4th and 1, run Sellers up the middle, or throw a quick slant, don't go for an out route. I know the ball was overthrown, but the circus catch is why we got Brandon Lloyd in the first place. He has to make that catch. I also can't help but wonder if extra work with JC wouldn't have helped the timing on that play. That's why practicing hard is so important. We have a great team, with enough talent to win it all, but we need to put teams away when we have the opportunity. Lastly, I'm seriously worried about our prospects this season with all these OL injuries. If we can't win the trench battles, it makes little difference how good our skill players are.

[SKINFAN]

A pro Wideout in the NFL, being paid what we pay them, should catch anything he touches, no excuses... It's ok to go up and graze the ball with his fingertips, yah good try, or good effort. But when it goes thru his arms, hmn, not good.

[Chris Luva Luva]

If the Redskins were good enough to NOT beat themselves, they wouldn't be in position to get screwed by the refs.

Stop giving those lame ducks excuses, they blew the game, not the refs. The offense didn't deserve to win the game and sadly they lost it for the entire team.

[BnGhog]

I agree with, that this is on Moss's shoulders. Moss knows that, but he needs to forget quickly. The season's not over.


I don't think these guys can just turn it on like a light switch. Like Lloyd. Sitting on the bench, then comes in for one play(that happens to be a bomb in the endzone in the Miami game) and expect him to catch.

Same goes for Moss. Been out because he was hurt. Catching balls in practice all week win not DB's around you and catching one in the game is two different things. They should have started off with some slow easy catches for Moss. Once he gets in to a grove, then throw him those, 3rd down balls.

Odviousely the game plan was to go to ey this week. And the Packs said they practiced all week to cover ey. This tells me that their should have been other WRs open, yet still most of the time JC went to ey. ey had a big day. But Moss, and ARL should have had good days too IMO.

This entire thing tells me something.

Imagine if everyone was healthy. As people get healthy in the season. We will get better and better.

[SKINFAN]

hate to be rain in your parade Boss...

But they could also get worse and worse....


We get a great game one week, then a meltdown the next... We are leaning on our defense too much. It's only a matter of time till they can't bend no more and break....

[Mursilis]

On a positive note, Arizona is a should-win, although they can be tricky, having beaten Pittsburgh and Seattle, and nearly beat Baltimore. After that, NE is, well . . . . best of luck to us. Then comes the Jets, who are just terrible this year. So we could be looking at 5-3 at the halfway point, which isn't bad at all. For the second half of the season, we face some good teams, but nobody else who's really dominant. If we can patch-up the O-line, and the D continues as it has, we're still very much in the hunt. Can't wait to see how this all plays out.

[SKINFAN]

another 5 in a row or we don't go season, then ride that momentum deep in the playoffs.

[everydayAskinsday]

as much as it hurts to lose a game like that we were definetly the better of the 2 teams.. but obivously as many of you have stated we hurt ourselves offensively with the turnovers.. Portis is beginning to worry me with his fumbles.. and while I noticed some of you saying hes being slowed by injury which is most likely a cause I also think its his unusual way of carrying the ball in the open field.. theres no way he can run at max speed holding the ball out in front of him with 2 hands.. I dont understand why hes doing this and why the coaches arent trying to correct it ( maybe they are) ..

Taylor should of had the game of his career ( he did have a very good one) . he dropped 4 SURE interceptions and had a shot at another.. all in all if he brought in all the balls he had a chance at he would of had around 6 INTs.. hes really starting to look comfortable out there which is good to see.. I was also impressed by our young DE Wilson.. he was disrupting the pocket everytime he was in there and also got a sack ..

back to the offensive side .. I was glad to see ey finally get involved but dissapointed in the overal play of our recievers.. wet or not you gotta bring in some of those passes.. and as for Campbell who I love and think is quickly becoming a very good QB he still clearly is not quite at the point of making all the reads before making his descions .. in particular on the 4th down play where he threw the little screen to Betts.. if he hadnt rushed that he would of seen a wide open McCardell running across the middle but all in all he is doing the things that are required of him and I know in time he will see more of the field considering hes only started what 13 games now?

[SKINFAN]

They needed to stick to what was working today, and that was passing to ey and Sellers.

The skins look like they adoped the army's motto. If it aint broke fix it till it is!

Dang, he went there.......

[joedondero1919]

Also GB defense is better than Detroit

If any single factor cost this game, it was dropped and tipped passes...

None of those were influenced by the Green Bay defense.

And that "pick" by Woodson... what a hideous call. Dual possession, all the way... goes to the Skins.

I was trying to make it all the way through the thread before I wrote my first post, but I have to respond to this. Once again a Redskins game is marred by horrible officiating. It doesn't just happen to us either. The NFL seriously needs to do something. Bad calls went both ways, but that was no interception. A tie goes to the offense. The intentional grounding call on JC also was a blown call. The defender yanked his arm down as he was passing the ball. Favre should have had a TD pass, on what was a force out by Carlos Rogers. JC was blocked in the back on the Moss fumble return. Horrible spot on ey's 4th quarter catch that preceded the 4th down play. And the list goes on and on. That being said, this was the Redskins game to lose. Instead of a timeout, Gibbs should have challenged the spot on ey's catch. Worst case scenario, we get the TO anyway. Best case, we get a first down, and are in great shape to win the game, or at least tie it up on a FG. We have to take the final timeout before the two minute warning. Why isn't anyone in Joe's ear about this? How many coaches do we need for at least one to have a sense for clock management? Carlos Rogers has to go low when tackling. How you think throwing a shoulder high on a player that outweighs you by 50 pounds is going to bring him down is beyond me. Landry also took a poor line on that play. If you are going to go for it on 4th and 1, run Sellers up the middle, or throw a quick slant, don't go for an out route. I know the ball was overthrown, but the circus catch is why we got Brandon Lloyd in the first place. He has to make that catch. I also can't help but wonder if extra work with JC wouldn't have helped the timing on that play. That's why practicing hard is so important. We have a great team, with enough talent to win it all, but we need to put teams away when we have the opportunity. Lastly, I'm seriously worried about our prospects this season with all these OL injuries. If we can't win the trench battles, it makes little difference how good our skill players are.

here are the bad calls that i saw. please let me know if you guys saw differently.

1) in the 4th, we received a punt and their was CLEARLY a tripping that brought down our PR. i see the flag go out, and instead, it is an illegal block in the back.

2) in the 4th, we had a 3rd and 1 and we did a pitch left to portis who was stopped, but their should have been a 5 yards face mask call on him. and the ref on the sidelines was looking directly at him and called nothing.

3) of course, the tipped ball into AREs hands should have been our ball.

4) i originally thought that the intentional grounding call was a bad call, but after watching the replay, i think it was an ok call.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Who cares about "bad" balls? The refs stole a TD from the Packers for us. We both got bad calls.

It's our fault that we were in a situation that allowed the refs to dictate the game for us.