The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Irn-Bru wrote:In all seriousness, I love Portis, I am hoping only the best for Lloyd, and yes I'm also trying to stay out of these conversations as much as possible. The case against Lloyd is WAY overblown, and I refuse to put down other players (Moss and Portis are this week's targets) to try and make Lloyd look better by comparison.

This board beat Lloyd down for almost a year (some members more than others) and I just read it and moved on to the next thread. This year it started all over again after game one as if the off season was one big blurr and the team had 2006 (and the sideshows) behind them.
But after one bad throw was picked off in the first game of the season lloyd was agin the reason for the downfall of the Redskins (even thoughwe won that game). The helmet thing, yelling/cursing at a coach, and telling another coach the ball wasn't lost in the lights all happened yesterday because it was in a blog. The Portis comments have there home here at THN and almost nowhere else. I'm not taking shots at CP he's still the best back we have (if he's healthy) but I'd take what he says about another player's practice habits with more weight if he had another player make the same comments or even more if he had actually taken part in said practices.

I don't know how much more Lloyd can do, when he plays he's getting open. Haven't seen him miss any blocks. He admit to giving up on that Int against Miami about a week ago (that was public I'm sure Gibbs dealt with it that week), and it started over. It was a "mostly dead" issuse when JLC blogged it but some members just love to dump on certain players. I'm not going to dump on our own and they shouldn't do it to each other, one has shown not to understand that, and one has not went down that road (I doubt he would). Moss took full blame for the loss although one man can't cost you a game and all is fine. Last year Brandon came out and said he was misunderstood and still is blamed for last years lost season. I doubt I'll see any post about how the team ate $9M in cap space (as opposed to trading to picks) and paid his replacement $31M only to have him drop 9 passes and loss the ball the one time they do gets it in his hands on it.

FTR: If I wanted to dump on any players I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be any from "the U"... OK maybe Jermey and Kellen but that would only be in defense of ey
But it is what it is and beatting on Brandon is getting old, if people haven't noticed the only thing that's be accomplished is getting our other top receivers beat up

JSPB22 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns

Probably because Rock Cartwright is our KO return man.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns

Probably because Rock Cartwright is our KO return man.

punt returns....

JSPB22 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns

Probably because Rock Cartwright is our KO return man.

Cut him some slack. He's been drinking. Couldn't you tell by the ?

I, for one, am beyond sick and tired of reading these cut everyone or trade everyone posts. They're about useless as teats on a bull. Nearly every offensive player is injured and the Redskins are still over .500 and have been in every game. We should be beating dead Cowboys, not dead horses.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Well, then, in the case that we can't hold past experiences to a current player, then our offense needs to be fired. CP hasn't done jack this year, Betts has what, 2.3 or so yds/carry. ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns, so lets pull him off of there, since we can't use previous years' performance in consideration of current players. Moss, we know that he had a record year for the skins, BUT, that was previously, which ois invalid. The only guy we should keep is Samuels.. wait, he didn't play pre-season, either, so fire him. I guess we're running with Kendall, Campbell, ey, and Thrash....

That works for me. Just be fair to everyone. That being said ey did have that thing with the cheerleader, if we give him a pass because she'll be Mrs. ey soon (if not already) that might send a bad message. Looks like it's just Kendall, Campbell and Thrash.

I'm not taking off field antics in to consideration. I still stand by my man, ey!!

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm not taking off field antics in to consideration. I still stand by my man, ey!!

OK then most of what Lloyd did was on the "sidelines"

Not the same and you well know it.....

ey had to meet her on the sidelines...
Think of the message it might send.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Not the same and you well know it.....

The irony.

I think thats actually pretty close to the same thing.

I bet she wanted to ey's Helmet.

1niksder wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Well, then, in the case that we can't hold past experiences to a current player, then our offense needs to be fired. CP hasn't done jack this year, Betts has what, 2.3 or so yds/carry. ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns, so lets pull him off of there, since we can't use previous years' performance in consideration of current players. Moss, we know that he had a record year for the skins, BUT, that was previously, which ois invalid. The only guy we should keep is Samuels.. wait, he didn't play pre-season, either, so fire him. I guess we're running with Kendall, Campbell, ey, and Thrash....

That works for me. Just be fair to everyone. That being said ey did have that thing with the cheerleader, if we give him a pass because she'll be Mrs. ey soon (if not already) that might send a bad message. Looks like it's just Kendall, Campbell and Thrash.

Wasn't that last year? We can't hold that against him on this board.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Well, then, in the case that we can't hold past experiences to a current player, then our offense needs to be fired. CP hasn't done jack this year, Betts has what, 2.3 or so yds/carry. ARE hasn't done jack on kick off returns, so lets pull him off of there, since we can't use previous years' performance in consideration of current players. Moss, we know that he had a record year for the skins, BUT, that was previously, which ois invalid. The only guy we should keep is Samuels.. wait, he didn't play pre-season, either, so fire him. I guess we're running with Kendall, Campbell, ey, and Thrash....

That works for me. Just be fair to everyone. That being said ey did have that thing with the cheerleader, if we give him a pass because she'll be Mrs. ey soon (if not already) that might send a bad message. Looks like it's just Kendall, Campbell and Thrash.

Wasn't that last year? We can't hold that against him on this board.

This entire argument is dumb. Your argument (if Im understanding correctly) is that because Lloyd had some issues a couple of times, we cant forgive and forget and move on. So you saying everyone should be held accountable for what they've done in the past.

Ok
#1 Lloyd has ALREADY BEEN PUNISHED.

How long does he get punished for? if your saying we shouldn't just move on and give him another chance? Do you have kids? how long do you punish them, a weekend? a week? AN ENTIRE FOOTBALL SEASON. Ok fine "thats different" right. What about at your job? You make a mistake and get punishsed for a year?

If that's the reason Lloyds not playing thats DUMB.

#2 All these things has already been said. And as soon as someone proves a point like this to any of the Anti-Lloyd guys, they go right back to another point that has also already been said. Round and Round.

They say "its the attitude". - Then they say he's been punished
They say "just cut him and move on" - they say "can't do that because of the contract and money

They say, "he's not trying" - They say he " he has tried and improved"

They say "he already got his chance" - They say " he didn't get a chance"

Aaaand..

Back to the top again. They say " but he has an attitude".


Whatever. Untill you guys can bring something new, that hasn't already been said, Im done here.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:It goes both ways though. Everyone saw Lloyd drop a sure td catch against Tampa Bay last year on JC's first NFL pass attempt. Lloyd was also the guy that got reprimanded for showing up his qb when he chucked his helmet against the Falcons and then threw a hissy fit on the sidelines. We all also saw Lloyd mistime his jump in the Dolphins game and then not try to catch up to the defender after the int.

Good, those are the usual three things that you bring up. Now mention once again that Clinton Portis may have begun to imply on a radio call-in show that Lloyd perhaps wasn't working hard in practice, and your standard case against Lloyd will be complete. . . .

Look I admit it's the same argument. But I think it helps explain why Lloyd might not be getting as many chances as some on here think that he should get. I have nothing personal against Lloyd. He is a Skin and as frustrated as I am with his contributions so far I want him to do well. When we got Lloyd and ARE I thought that the Lloyd move would turn out to be the better one. Unfortunately it hasn't turned out that way. My main problem with this entire situation is that I think that Gibbs is catching an unnecessary and unfair amount of flack for this situation. I have been very critical of Gibbs over MB04 and other things, but I don't think that he is being unreasonable here. Lloyd got himself into this mess and what it all boils down to is that none of us on here know exactly what goes on behind closed doors and what Lloyd has or hasn't done to get himself out of the dog house. People say he should practice with the first string offense, but has he shown the coaches enough in practice to warrant that? None of us know the answer to this. So it's one thing to say that you want Lloyd to do well, but it's entirely different thing to claim that Gibbs is being unreasonable and to demand that Lloyd see more action during games when we don't really know if he deserves it. Additionally, some people claim that what happened with Lloyd last year is history but are more than willing to bring up the Lavar and Archuleta situations to claim that Gibbs is wrong here. Every situation is different so it's unfair to just lump all of these incidents together and automatically assume that what happened to those players is happening with Lloyd.

So when an individual keeps making the same mistake at their job, every incident is treated as it's the first? Or even a lot of differnet mistakes, and it's not his 'first job out of high school.' This is not his first team, there's been a history (regardless of who's fault it was in SF, I'm positive he wasn't an angel) prior to him even arriving. He arrived, continues to be subpar. I just don't see it in the same light as others do.

CanesSkins26 wrote:People say he should practice with the first string offense, but has he shown the coaches enough in practice to warrant that?

I'm going by what I hear from the players and coaches.

-Prior to GB Gibbs said that Lloyd is on practice squad.
-Jason had an interview THIS week saying the Lloyd has been BUSTING HIS "YOU KNOW WHAT" in practice.

So according to JASON CAMPBELL, Lloyd IS working hard in practice. According to MY eyes and those of many others, LLoyd was open twice for a TD against GB. He caught 1 poorly thrown ball. He also turned 1 yard into 9 yards against DET (his ONLY pass of the game).

How much more does he need to do? He appears to have moved on and learned a lesson? He's showing the effort ON THE FIELD. What more needs to happen? The coaches need to learn how to have a winning offense and get over themselves cus they haven't done anything bragging about.

Until Lloyd starts EXECUTING the potential that you all see, this situation won't change. Missing a poorly thrown ball is still missing. It DID hit both of his hands. He DID have a chance, albeit small, to catch said ball, and he didn't. This gives fuel to all the anti-Lloyd, such as myself, to say he's not changed. This will continue until he DOES start making these types of catches. I sincerely hope that Lloyd does prove me and the naysayers wrong, but he hasn't so far. Most receivers can catch the balls that is thrown right into their hands. The great ones, as some claim Lloyd to be, will catch the imperfect, tough, behind, underthrown, overthrown, but still catchable ball. He hasn't done it yet. When or if he does, I'll be right there saying I was wrong. For the present, I'll stay with my opinion.

Until Lloyd starts EXECUTING the potential that you all see, this situation won't change. Missing a poorly thrown ball is still missing. It DID hit both of his hands. He DID have a chance, albeit small, to catch said ball, and he didn't. This gives fuel to all the anti-Lloyd, such as myself, to say he's not changed. This will continue until he DOES start making these types of catches. I sincerely hope that Lloyd does prove me and the naysayers wrong, but he hasn't so far. Most receivers can catch the balls that is thrown right into their hands. The great ones, as some claim Lloyd to be, will catch the imperfect, tough, behind, underthrown, overthrown, but still catchable ball. He hasn't done it yet. When or if he does, I'll be right there saying I was wrong. For the present, I'll stay with my opinion.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Until Lloyd starts EXECUTING the potential that you all see, this situation won't change. Missing a poorly thrown ball is still missing. It DID hit both of his hands. He DID have a chance, albeit small, to catch said ball, and he didn't. This gives fuel to all the anti-Lloyd, such as myself, to say he's not changed. This will continue until he DOES start making these types of catches. I sincerely hope that Lloyd does prove me and the naysayers wrong, but he hasn't so far. Most receivers can catch the balls that is thrown right into their hands. The great ones, as some claim Lloyd to be, will catch the imperfect, tough, behind, underthrown, overthrown, but still catchable ball. He hasn't done it yet. When or if he does, I'll be right there saying I was wrong. For the present, I'll stay with my opinion.

Santana Moss must be neither "most receivers" nor one of the "great ones" by this logic.

Last time I checked, this is a Lloyd thread. You wanna slam Moss for his year, slam him in his own thread, this is the slam Lloyd thread.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Last time I checked, this is a Lloyd thread. You wanna slam Moss for his year, slam him in his own thread, this is the slam Lloyd thread.

I don't want to slam anyone, but your post did open the door for comparison and contrast. And Santana Moss did have more drops on Sunday than Brandon Lloyd has had passes thrown his way this season.

VetSkinsFan wrote: Missing a poorly thrown ball is still missing. It DID hit both of his hands. He DID have a chance, albeit small, to catch said ball, and he didn't.

This gives fuel to all the anti-Lloyd, such as myself, to say he's not changed.

No you're not anti-Lloyd. You're being anti-reality. It is not realistic to expect a WR to leap forward, his body prostrate in the air and EXPECT him to make that catch. That is NOT a catch you expect. Marvin misses some of those, as does R. Moss, Chad and many other great WR's. The DIFFERENCE is that they are given MANY chances to make those throws. They are allowed to garner some familiarity with the STARTING QB. Those WR's aren't inserted for 3 plays out of 40+. They are allowed to get into a rhythm and get a feel for the QB.

See...that's realisitc. Nobody here is saying Lloyd is Chad Johnson. Its just evident that he's a helluva WR and he has shown in the past 2 games that he's one of our top 3 guys. YET! He's not given a proper chance to succeed. But oh well, it's not like our coaches aren't used to being losers, they'll cope with it.

Your "point" would be understandable if Lloyd had a ball brush off of his hands while standing still on a hook route.

Well.... I've had it. I now understand why many have abandoned this thread. You and many others are beyond reason and just turn into broken records. You don't dispute facts, you ignore posts and just repeat the same rhetoric over and over, no different than talking to a pull string doll.

Its just evident that he's a helluva WR and he has shown in the past 2 games that he's one of our top 3 guys


I don't think it's evident. That's my point. and because I don't see things YOUR WAY, that means that I'm beyond reason? Whatever. The fact of the matter is that Lloyd's NOT starting. The REALITY is that Lloyd was DEMOTED from #2 wideout to god knows where in the depth chart. The rest is completely opinionated, my side and yours.


I'm done with this until something new comes up.....

I'm not gonna get caught up in the semantics of all of this because here's one thing for certain. We got WRs that are hurt and were dropping balls. We got a WR that is healthy, tall, and can run. Why not take some shots down the field to him, if nothing else. Yes, he gave up on one ball and was lackadaisical in tackling the CB that picked it off. He's rotted for a few games. Okay, I got all of that.

But now, with the injuries happening and the fact that we got a young and strong arm, why not use this guy's height and speed and run him down field and on post routes and see what he can do. He had another opportunity to catch a ball Sunday other than the deep ball and that was that post across the middle. The problem was Todd Wade let Kampman bull-rush him into JC and he had to pull it down. He was going to Lloyd but the pressure from Kampman caused him to pull it down.....

Chris Luva Luva]
[quote="skinsfan#33 wrote:False! The pass was almost perfectly thrown. Lloyd needed to take another step before he jumped. Had he done that it would have been a TD.

No. Not the interception pass. Jason overthrow Lloyd way out of the endzone on ANOTHER POORLY THROWN PASS earlier in the season.
[/quote]

Simply not true.