The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I don't seem to be against it anymore because all we do is draft positions we don't need in the late rounds like Lb. To me it just means were going to draft one less LB.

I think we got a steal here. We need a guy who can play NOW. Kensell can play NOW. Plus we don't have to pay him too much. The 4th round pick sucks though. We don't know how to draft anyways so I think its a pretty good pick up for us!

I think this was pretty shrewd by the Redskins, here's more to the story by John Clayton:

The Pete Kendall trade was a fast one, put together by the Redskins and the Jets in less than 24 hours. The Jets will receive a fifth-round pick in 2008 if Kendall plays 80 percent of the snaps this year; the pick would be a fourth-rounder in '09 if he plays more. Over the past three years, Kendall has played at least 90 percent of the snaps in each of those seasons. Acquiring Kendall resolves several things along the offensive line. First, it stops the conversion of Todd Wade from tackle to guard. Wade will now be the backup tackle. Second, it gives the Redskins some beef on the interior of their offensive line. The Redskins' schedule dictates that the team can't be too small in its interior blocking.

Kendall gets his money: The loser in the Kendall trade was the Miami Dolphins. They had been hoping Kendall, who didn't want to stay in New York because the Jets wouldn't give him a $1 million raise, would be cut. That wasn't going to happen. Had there been no trade offer, the Jets would have kept Kendall even if he were unhappy. Once the Redskins got involved, things started moving pretty quickly. The trade gives the Jets eight draft choices in 2008. Kendall was also a winner in the trade. Though his preference would have been to stay in New York if he got paid, Kendall proved his point. He wanted to get a raise from $1.7 million to $2.7 million, and teams were willing to accommodate him. Aside from the Redskins and Dolphins, the Chiefs also had interest. Kendall will now make $2.7 million this season and $2.3 million in 2008.

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Finding this situation and getting Kendall is pretty smart. Having a veteran LG for two years is pretty nice. We should have a real good line to protect Cambell and to make big holes for Portis and Betts.

I think many of us (myself included) have been soured to the very mention of trading draft picks for a player. But obviously there are times and places to do so, and it may turn out that this pick (like other picks used for players such as Clinton Portis, Chris ey, and [I'm getting more confident about] Rocky McIntosh) will turn out to have been worth it.

We'll see soon enough, since week one is less than a month away.

Irn-Bru wrote:I think many of us (myself included) have been soured to the very mention of trading draft picks for a player. But obviously there are times and places to do so, and it may turn out that this pick (like other picks used for players such as Clinton Portis, Chris ey, and [I'm getting more confident about] Rocky McIntosh) will turn out to have been worth it.

We'll see soon enough, since week one is less than a month away.

Did you actually bracket your own quote? Hahaha

I am soured on trading 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks...

Obviously good players are still to be had in the later rounds, but I can live with that reduced risk... it's trading the high picks that bothers me.

Fios wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I think many of us (myself included) have been soured to the very mention of trading draft picks for a player. But obviously there are times and places to do so, and it may turn out that this pick (like other picks used for players such as Clinton Portis, Chris ey, and [I'm getting more confident about] Rocky McIntosh) will turn out to have been worth it.

We'll see soon enough, since week one is less than a month away.

Did you actually bracket your own quote? Hahaha

No, I just tend to think like this: ([([([])])])


I would never be so arogant [sic] as to editorialize myself.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I think this was pretty shrewd by the Redskins, here's more to the story by John Clayton:

The Pete Kendall trade was a fast one, put together by the Redskins and the Jets in less than 24 hours. The Jets will receive a fifth-round pick in 2008 if Kendall plays 80 percent of the snaps this year; the pick would be a fourth-rounder in '09 if he plays more. Over the past three years, Kendall has played at least 90 percent of the snaps in each of those seasons.

I like the way the FO made the pick conditional on Kendall's production - if he gets injured and doesn't play much, at least he's only costing us a 5th.

Its 15.36 in the UK and I`ve just picked up this news. The trade doesn`t seem too costly although I wouldn`t like to see any more picks go - but basically I like it!

If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

BernieSki wrote:If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

It's not just about starters, though. Teams also hope to get depth and/or development projects from lower draft choices. Depth is crucial given the injuries in this league.

Mursilis wrote:

BernieSki wrote:If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

It's not just about starters, though. Teams also hope to get depth and/or development projects from lower draft choices. Depth is crucial given the injuries in this league.

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

BernieSki wrote:If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

It's not just about starters, though. Teams also hope to get depth and/or development projects from lower draft choices. Depth is crucial given the injuries in this league.

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

My comment wasn't about this trade specifically - I was only taking issue with the implied thought above that if lower round picks don't yield starters, they aren't helpful to a team.

Mursilis wrote:

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

BernieSki wrote:If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

It's not just about starters, though. Teams also hope to get depth and/or development projects from lower draft choices. Depth is crucial given the injuries in this league.

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

My comment wasn't about this trade specifically - I was only taking issue with the implied thought above that if lower round picks don't yield starters, they aren't helpful to a team.

Understood

Mursilis wrote:

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

BernieSki wrote:If you can get a starter for a mid round draft choice, even if it is just for a year or two, thats a solid move. ( Unless you are in a rebuilding process). I would be interested in knowing what percentage players ever become a starter that are picked in the fourth round or lower. I would bet 20% or less.

It's not just about starters, though. Teams also hope to get depth and/or development projects from lower draft choices. Depth is crucial given the injuries in this league.

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

My comment wasn't about this trade specifically - I was only taking issue with the implied thought above that if lower round picks don't yield starters, they aren't helpful to a team.

I do not see where I said that lower picks are not helpful. I said if you can use a lower pick to fill a starting spot then you used that pick wisely. To expand that point, if only a small percentage of lower round picks ever become a starter and you can use one of those picks to get a proven starter then you have used that pick successfully. Besides we needed a guard and an opportunity to get a starting quality player became available so we made a strategic move for a relatively small cost. We all want the same thing and there are many different ways to get there.

BernieSki wrote:
"strategic move "

Dang! you sunk my battleship!

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

In the short term it does. But it also makes our oline older while costing us a pick. The move was needed imo because of the uncertainty at left guard but at some point soon the team is going to have to start drafting some young players for the oline to groom for the future. Perhaps if we had kept some more of these 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders that we like to trade away so much then we might have had a young lineman to step in for Dockery and we wouldn't have had to try the Wade "experiment" or trade for a 34 year old.

The Jets point of view about this trade....

Good deal for Kendall, maybe not for Jets

There's no way the Jets could have kept Pete Kendall this season, not with the acrimony built up over the last several months. Kendall claimed he received verbal assurances of a $1 million raise - to $2.7 million - by the Jets, while GM Mike Tannenbaum and coach Eric Mangini have been unwilling to grant the request.

Kendall responded with plenty of harsh words for the coach and GM whenever anyone asked how he felt, and there was simply no way he could have co-existed on this team this season without huge fallout.

So the Jets did the right thing by getting a draft pick from the Redskins for the 34-year-old guard, who still has a few good years left. If they weren't gonna pay him - and clearly, they weren't - then best to get something in return.

The deal also keeps Kendall away from the Dolphins, the team they were deathly afraid would sign Kendall if he'd been released at the end of the preseason.

So it's a win-win in that respect, but on the field, it's far from certain. The Jets simply don't have a replacement who provides the kind of steady leadership and solid blocking that Kendall offered. Adrien Clarke is the likely fill-in, but he has had a less-than-stellar camp so far.

link

He took a pay cut last year with a promise of a raise this year and did get it in writing

What former teammates have to say about him:

Kendall left a legacy on the offensive linemen who remain here.

"He came to this team when I was just becoming a starter and I took a lot from him," said starting right guard Brandon Moore, now the elder statesman of the line. "Just watching him go about his business and being a pro and learning how to approach every week, that's what I'll take from Pete."

"One of the greatest things about Pete is that he is a teacher and he helped with a whole bunch of guys," said center Nick Mangold, one of Kendall's star students as a rookie last year. "It'll be tough not having that kind of teacher around."

Even Bender, who appears to be Kendall's successor and will likely start on Saturday against the Giants, said he learned from Kendall.

"I would come to the sideline and Pete would say 'You took this step wrong' or 'You did this,'" Bender said. "I was thankful to spend some time with Pete. Pete helped me a lot in transitioning to guard and I'm still learning."

also

In the preseason game against the Falcons this month, quarterback Kellen Clemens was about to take a snap when he heard a gruff voice: "It ain't gonna work, get out of it!"

It was guard Pete Kendall, who recognized a glitch in the Jets' plans as they matched up against the defense. He was able to orchestrate a change at the line of scrimmage, and the play wound up a touchdown pass to Sean Ryan

rest of the article

Maybe he can help groom the young guys on this roster over the next few years. This would make the trade even better

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Doesn't this trade help address the question of depth?

In the short term it does. But it also makes our oline older while costing us a pick. The move was needed imo because of the uncertainty at left guard but at some point soon the team is going to have to start drafting some young players for the oline to groom for the future. Perhaps if we had kept some more of these 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders that we like to trade away so much then we might have had a young lineman to step in for Dockery and we wouldn't have had to try the Wade "experiment" or trade for a 34 year old.

Like Molinaro, Wilson, or Lefotu? It's not just that the Skins haven't made any moves toward acquiring youth; there have been picks used there. But a combination of having only a few low-round picks along with their inability to have found talent when they did pick young OL's is what created the situation.

Irn-Bru wrote:Like Molinaro, Wilson, or Lefotu? It's not just that the Skins haven't made any moves toward acquiring youth; there have been picks used there. But a combination of having only a few low-round picks along with their inability to have found talent when they did pick young OL's is what created the situation.

Yes they have tried but failed. How do we remedy that?

People say that the draft isn't a sure thing, I understand that. But how is it that certain teams are able to draft well consistently? I've always felt that we need to mimic and learn from those clubs. What are they doing different, how can we incorporate that? Who can we hire from within those scouting departments to lead ours in the same direction? It's a copy-cat league, why not copy this? Money isn't an issue, right?

I believe our issues in the past have been with the scouting. Things seem to have gotten better this year. Only time will tell.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:People say that the draft isn't a sure thing, I understand that. But how is it that certain teams are able to draft well consistently? I've always felt that we need to mimic and learn from those clubs. What are they doing different, how can we incorporate that? Who can we hire from within those scouting departments to lead ours in the same direction? It's a copy-cat league, why not copy this? Money isn't an issue, right?

I believe our issues in the past have been with the scouting. Things seem to have gotten better this year. Only time will tell.

Actually, when we have draft picks, they tend to pan out. Yes, not the lower round picks, but very few of the 5th-7th round picks pan out for any team.

It's just we have had so few draft picks.

My question is this: how many offensive lineman that go in a draft, outside the first round or so, actually make a roster? Obviously the answer is relatively high but I would guess that a study of the draft would show that no one team has THE approach, so who do you emulate?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yes they have tried but failed. How do we remedy that?

(1) More picks (if 20% hit then you want as many as possible)

People say that the draft isn't a sure thing, I understand that. But how is it that certain teams are able to draft well consistently?

The difference between teams that draft well consistently and those that don't are 1 or maybe 2 breakout players a year. After the first few rounds, it's all about looking for the diamond in the rough.

I've always felt that we need to mimic and learn from those clubs. What are they doing different, how can we incorporate that? Who can we hire from within those scouting departments to lead ours in the same direction? It's a copy-cat league, why not copy this? Money isn't an issue, right?

I agree but I think that the Redskins organization is far more political than you or I realize. The people with the top jobs may not deserve them, and there may be a culture there that values kissing butt more than hard work. I'm not saying that's the case, but it's one option.

Another option is the fact that good talent can be very hard to find. Money might not be an object, but it can be difficult to determine who is worth it.

Things seem to have gotten better this year. Only time will tell.

I agree, and I think that it's improve since last offseason to tell you the truth. Not only did we get 2 DL's that I think will be starters, but we picked up McIntosh as well. Landry was as brilliant a pick-up as Sean Taylor was. I have some high hopes for Blades as well. We also displayed more discipline in keeping picks (although we're suffering the hangover from other mistakes).

I also think that Lloyd, ARE, Carter, Smoot, and Fletcher will prove themselves worthy of price we paid for each. In 2005 no one questioned our FA strategy because they had all worked out. With last year's disappointing performances by every FA, we're back to bashing the Skins. As always, Ws will change popular opinion once more.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:People say that the draft isn't a sure thing, I understand that. But how is it that certain teams are able to draft well consistently? I've always felt that we need to mimic and learn from those clubs. What are they doing different, how can we incorporate that? Who can we hire from within those scouting departments to lead ours in the same direction? It's a copy-cat league, why not copy this? Money isn't an issue, right?

I believe our issues in the past have been with the scouting. Things seem to have gotten better this year. Only time will tell.

Actually, when we have draft picks, they tend to pan out. Yes, not the lower round picks, but very few of the 5th-7th round picks pan out for any team.

It's just we have had so few draft picks.

Yea, and if they ever had all their draft picks they could take more chances in the later rounds instead of having to draft to fill out the depth chart with what picks they do have.

I like the way that the redskins draft and the way they trade picks for veterans.

The redskins use this plan and it hasnt worked. How many other teams do the same as them... really they are the only team that does this to the extent they do it.

However, every team that uses all its draft picks doesnt play well and they dont always win the superbowl.

For example from 2002-2006 the team with the most draft picks is the tennesee titans with 50. During that time period they are below the nfl average for wins in a season. They have one of the worst overall teams in the league.

All this shows is that drafts do not make teams most teams place a great value in drafting and only one team wins the superbowl a year. It doesnt mean that a team becomes good or bad totally through the draft.

Later round draft picks usually dont make a team.

If you look at the actual numbers of amount of players drafted vs wins there is almost no corelation i know that people talk a big game about winning through the draft but that is just because every team is forced by the nfl to use its draft picks to aqcuire players.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/0 ... raft/5047/
this shows how many players and what positions were taken by each team and how many games each team won during that span of time.