The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:I've calmed down some, won't be selling tickets. Still not happy the least bit with the situation though.

Why don't you let the team play a game first before doom the season?

Play a game first? Flash back to 8 games last year. Flash back to 3 quarters last week. I think there might be room for concern

crazyhorse1 wrote:Sober up and face it. We are dead, gone. The season is over. We will finish in last place in our division with the most demoralized team in football. This is Spurrier and Danny Awful all over again and as much as I used to admire Gibbs...I now have to give way to my growing feeling that he has become an old man and no longer a football mind to be reckoned with. We are simply going to be stomped all year. This is a real idiot move... one of the worse ever made by a Redskin coach... and one absolutely not to be respected on a number of levels.

Sadly IMO I think he is trying to rekindle what he did the first time around. He love veterans and experience. It has worked in the past but we have already seen what Brunell can do. He's got to stop trying to proove this guy to us.

lol, just wouldn't be the new era Redskins without the fans being divided...

Everything will be alright, just might not be until next year. We shall see what Brunell can offer us this year...

I STILL got faith in Gibbs. He is turning this franchise around. Don't you guys who started seeing the light forget that. You may not agree with this one move, but remember, that not too long ago you were starting to have faith when you never did before. Most of this team is looking pretty strong. If we had a solid QB already, we'd likely be superbowl bound. It'll come.

Scottskins wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Scottskins wrote:

1niksder wrote:OK even those of you that think Gibbs has lost his mind with this QB move does anyone really think Rramsey is going anywhere this year???

definitely. He can't be a backup now. The team will have absolutely NO faith in him now, and now he won't want to play for the Redskins. What happens if we are 6-5 and Brunell gets whacked. We would be screwed if Patrick had to be the QB. Can you imagine how much he must hate Gibbs now? How could he get excited about trying to win because Brunell went down? He's gotta go...

not to mention, his trade value will never be higher than right now.

Has anyone talked to ramsey? Seen a quote?
Gibb said he talked to him face to face and called Mark on the phone. I'm sure Ramsey understands the situation though not happy with it but he did play for S.O.S. so this is nothing new

It's different now though 1nik. All this time, everyone has been saying how Joe has something against Patrick. We (as fans) have all been wondering about it, and the media has been saying it. Joe stuck with Brunell 8 games last year even though he was completely horrible. Patrick plays 1 quarter, makes 1 mistake and then starts playing well. He gets hit hard, but recovers. He doesn't go back in the game and now has been replaced as the starter? His time here is over as a starter. Everyone knows it. Patrick will not play nice in the locker room. We should trade him(for value if nothing esle) and now is the time.

I guess Gibbs could say he's staying, but Gibbs doesn't like cancer, see Coles and Gardner. Guess we'll find out in the next few weeks...

If Ramsey understands why the move was made and IF the door isn't completely shut, he knows he'll be called apon sooner or later

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 7&start=20

1niksder wrote:

Scottskins wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Scottskins wrote:

1niksder wrote:OK even those of you that think Gibbs has lost his mind with this QB move does anyone really think Rramsey is going anywhere this year???

definitely. He can't be a backup now. The team will have absolutely NO faith in him now, and now he won't want to play for the Redskins. What happens if we are 6-5 and Brunell gets whacked. We would be screwed if Patrick had to be the QB. Can you imagine how much he must hate Gibbs now? How could he get excited about trying to win because Brunell went down? He's gotta go...

not to mention, his trade value will never be higher than right now.

Has anyone talked to ramsey? Seen a quote?
Gibb said he talked to him face to face and called Mark on the phone. I'm sure Ramsey understands the situation though not happy with it but he did play for S.O.S. so this is nothing new

It's different now though 1nik. All this time, everyone has been saying how Joe has something against Patrick. We (as fans) have all been wondering about it, and the media has been saying it. Joe stuck with Brunell 8 games last year even though he was completely horrible. Patrick plays 1 quarter, makes 1 mistake and then starts playing well. He gets hit hard, but recovers. He doesn't go back in the game and now has been replaced as the starter? His time here is over as a starter. Everyone knows it. Patrick will not play nice in the locker room. We should trade him(for value if nothing esle) and now is the time.

I guess Gibbs could say he's staying, but Gibbs doesn't like cancer, see Coles and Gardner. Guess we'll find out in the next few weeks...

If Ramsey understands why the move was made and IF the door isn't completely shut, he knows he'll be called apon sooner or later

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 7&start=20

I just feel that Ramsey will finally say screw it. Why should he stay here? He can start and stay the starter on quite a few teams out there. He's really never "felt" the love as Lavar would say here in washington. Especially with the current staff. If your Boss seems to have no faith in you, why would you continue to work in the same place if you had a chance to go elsewhere? Like I said. We'll see what happens in the weeks to come.

Scottskins wrote:I just feel that Ramsey will finally say screw it. Why should he stay here? He can start and stay the starter on quite a few teams out there. He's really never "felt" the love as Lavar would say here in washington. Especially with the current staff. If your Boss seems to have no faith in you, why would you continue to work in the same place if you had a chance to go elsewhere? Like I said. We'll see what happens in the weeks to come.

Ramsey's under contract and we have no viable option. He and Gibbs must work it out

The Hogster wrote:1 INT + 2 Fumbles + 1 Quarter = Bench

Hogster, you can't possibly be serious. did you actually see the game, or just look at the box score? how can you be held accountable for what happens to you when something illegal occurs? suggesting ramsey is liable for that "fumble" would be like this:

you are entrusted to move an antique armchair across the street. as you cross the street, a car speeds through at 60 mph in a 25 mph zone, and smashes right into you, knocking the armchair out of your hands and crashing into the street. you are laying there in a puddle of your own blood, and the owner of the chair comes out screaming "you broke my chair!" what's worse, there was a cop standing on the corner and he does nothing as he watches the car speed away.

get a clue. in no conceivable system of logic does this make any possible sense. ramsey legitimately fumbled once. how many times did vick and mcnabb turn the ball over in tonight's MNF game? and don't tell me "ramsey is no vick/mcnabb", i know. but he was on pace to throw for 400 yards in that game! (wouldn't've happened, i know, cuz gibbs always tightens up and runs the whole 4th quarter... but my point is, he was on pace for a great passing game).

die cowboys die wrote:

The Hogster wrote:1 INT + 2 Fumbles + 1 Quarter = Bench

Hogster, you can't possibly be serious. did you actually see the game, or just look at the box score? how can you be held accountable for what happens to you when something illegal occurs? suggesting ramsey is liable for that "fumble" would be like this:

you are entrusted to move an antique armchair across the street. as you cross the street, a car speeds through at 60 mph in a 25 mph zone, and smashes right into you, knocking the armchair out of your hands and crashing into the street. you are laying there in a puddle of your own blood, and the owner of the chair comes out screaming "you broke my chair!" what's worse, there was a cop standing on the corner and he does nothing as he watches the car speed away.

get a clue. in no conceivable system of logic does this make any possible sense. ramsey legitimately fumbled once. how many times did vick and mcnabb turn the ball over in tonight's MNF game? and don't tell me "ramsey is no vick/mcnabb", i know. but he was on pace to throw for 400 yards in that game! (wouldn't've happened, i know, cuz gibbs always tightens up and runs the whole 4th quarter... but my point is, he was on pace for a great passing game).

This is the most poorly thought out hypothetical I have ever read. You need to get a clue buddy. First, the hypothetical that you describe would be an "abberration". It is not every day that you are asked to do something, and a catastrophy happens.

Ramsey's fumbles are no abberration. McNabb has one of the best interception ratios in the NFL...a game where he turns the ball over a lot in one game IS AN ABBERRATION, however if you look at your favorite boy toy Patrick Ramsey over his four years in the league he has thrown 33 TD's and 29 INTS. Not to mention fumbles.

McNabb threw 31 TD's last year alone against 8 INTS. See a difference here? And don't give me those (it was the ole ball coach, the line, his foot) each year you Ramseyites make up every excuse for why he plays poorly. Bottom line is last year, he finished the season as the 28th rated passer in the league. That is not going to cut it.

So if Ramsey were carrying an antique and a disaster happened, then he would still have his job..it was an accident. But if you are hit by a car once or twice a week, then maybe its you.

Maybe if you weren't so emotionally invested in Ramsey, you would see his flaws. Until you realize that he has not taken any steps forward then the sooner you cah suck it up and support the TEAM and not just one player.

Sure I watched the game, judging by your post, I am sure I have seen quite a bit more than you have. I am a real Redskins fan, and not some guy with an inexplicable 'man crush' on Patrick Ramsey. Just as Gibbs mentioned in his press conference, and if you are old enough you remember. Mark Rypien had the same problems. He was made the starter and turned the ball over 9 times in 8 games. That was enough for Gibbs to bench him. Ramsey should not be held to any lower standard just because fans like yourself are good at making excuses for him.

Even if you accept your own logic and somehow discount one of his fumbles...he still turned the ball over twice in one quarter. He threw 3 interceptions in one half last year. What part of that do you like, the amount of interceptions he throws or the fact that he throws a beautiful spiral while doing it?

So you can twist the stats all you would like, yeah he was well on his way to a 'great passing game'. 400 yards, 4 INTS and 4 fumbles

Editors Note - I posted this in smack before seeing this here...I'm reposting here...
My thoughts on this are as follows:

1.) Ramsey got screwed

2.) Brunell looked better in pre-season because he was playing against backups. The backup QB's generally have better numbers because they play against scrubs. Brunell is better than your average backup but in no way is a starter any longer IMHO

3.) Ramsey throws WAY too many INT's. But the only way to get rid of that is to PLAY HIM !!! Look at Peyton Manning's first few years. Way too many. And now they've gone "poof".

4.) Is Ramsey a starting calibre QB? Dunno...but noone else knows because he had to start in Spurrier-ball for 2 seasons getting knocked around like a pinball and then sat the bench while Brunell threw passes into the dirt.

5.) Brunell may make fewer "mistakes" than Ramsey, but Ramsey moves the chains. And if we have Brunell back in there the opposing defenses wil just stack the line again and dare brunell to throw anything longer than 15 yds. With Ramsey they'd have to play back a bit b/c of the arm strength

6.) I sincerely hope i'm wrong and Brunell turns out to be a winner for us and we can groom Campbell and get rid of Ramsey for a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

7.) But I highly doubt it.

8.) Not happy about the move or the way Gibbs handled this but he is the Hall of Famer and he calls the shots so....

Final Note - I just want to win regardless of the QB. Ramsey hasn't made much progress but given the fact that he played in Spurrier ball (which is not a real offense) he's basically a second year QB. Yes you may call this an "excuse" but whats the "excuse" for starting a has-been QB who couldn't throw past 8 yds last year over a young QB who might improve with playing time??

yes, i remember mark rypien quite well. what happened once he got to keep playing and develop as a QB? oh, that's right- we won the superbowl! i've said this time and time again- the only way you learn is through experience. the only way you improve in games is through playing in games. practicing is obviously prerequisite, but practicing alone won't do it. yes, ramsey makes too many mistakes. but after his slow start, he was starting to toast the bears defense.

patrick ramsey has started 24 games in the NFL. that is exactly a season and a half. what do you expect out of a 2nd year QB halfway through the season? it is an addage that QBs take about 3 season to develop. sitting on the bench doesn't count as development. compare to other QBs:

PATRICK RAMSEY AFTER 24 STARTS: 33 TDs, 29 INTs
PEYTON MANNING AFTER 24 STARTS: 40 TDs, 36 INTs
BRETT FAVRE AFTER 29 STARTS: 37 TDs, 39 INTs

i'm not saying ramsey is a great QB. as i looked around stats, there are plenty of good QBs who didn't start so slow. i wish we could get a great QB like that. all i'm saying is, ramsey still has time to redeem himself if he gets a shot. i thought his play looked promising on sunday. but now we'll never know.

i feel like taking the gamble on ramsey is probably a better investment of our season than banking it on brunell. i hope gibbs/brunell prove me wrong on monday night against dallas.

1niksder wrote:

Scottskins wrote:I just feel that Ramsey will finally say screw it. Why should he stay here? He can start and stay the starter on quite a few teams out there. He's really never "felt" the love as Lavar would say here in washington. Especially with the current staff. If your Boss seems to have no faith in you, why would you continue to work in the same place if you had a chance to go elsewhere? Like I said. We'll see what happens in the weeks to come.

Ramsey's under contract and we have no viable option. He and Gibbs must work it out

it would be absurd and completely wrong to disallow ramsey to seek a trade. if gibbs wasn't going to really have him be the starter as he CLAIMED he would this year, he should have traded him in the offseason. ramsey does not deserve to once again be shoved onto the bench.

If Ramsey wants to be traded, that's not an issue...

The question is, Whose gonna want Ramsey? Especially at this time of year?

What I don't understand is why do Ramsey supporters still want to give Ramsey time to improve?

We drafted Campbell.

Whether you like it or not Ramsey was gone after this season anyways.

Atleast we might get something for him.

Blame Gibbs if you want, we will just have to wait and see how we Ramsey does elsewere(wish him the best).

Anyhow if you are a fan of the Redskins you should support their decisions(Especially if it is from Gibbs).

I just can not see how fans can think they know more about this then the coaching staff.

Obviously I can read...I've been reading your drubble for quite some time and an getting sick of your BLIND loyalty to Gibbs. Gibbs was great years ago but hasn't done much for the Redskins since he's been back, other than just give us false hope and lying. Why can't you see that? Nevermind, I'll answer that. It's because you're being overly critical of people's posts rather than watching what is happening to our beloved franchise.

Champsturf, if you think this team hasn't improved, then you're even worse than I think you are. But, it's your opinion. But, I'll go to bed, if you go back to your one post every four weeks. Judging by your avatar, one can guess where you post in those three weeks that you're not posting here. Must be nice jumping on to another teams bandwagon!!

Overly critical? What a load of crap that is!! The Head Coach of a football team is responsible for starting the QB that he thinks gives us the best chance to win. Joe Gibbs thinks it's Brunell. END OF STORY!! If you don't like it, then move on!!! Learn to live with it, cuz it's not reversible right now. Instead of being critical, maybe you should try what many real fans do: support, even though you might not agree with it. It's called supporting your TEAM!!!

Shut up and go back to the Broncos board.

I just want to say that I think we should go with the QB that gives us the best chance of winning in the game versus the Seahawks

If I go 12000 miles to see MY team play, they had better win

I would be happy to see any QB (including Jason Campbell) play as long as he wears a redskins uniform and we win

If we trade Ramsey who's number 2 and where do we get one.

Anyone who did not see this coming is just in denial in my opinion. I said before the season that Ramsey wouldn’t make it out of the Dallas game (check the how long will Ramsey last thread). That thread alone tell me that a lot of people around here felt the same way. I didn’t say that because I feel Brunell is a great QB, I said it because you could see during the pre-season that Gibbs liked what he saw in Brunell’s play and I’m sure had he not named Ramsey the starter last year he would have gone with Brunell as his starter in the Bears game.

All this talk about Ramsey getting shafted is laughable to me…where are all the Antonio Brown got shafted threads at?? This is the NFL Joe Gibbs is paid to do one thing…win football games. At the end of the day he has to look in the mirror and know that he is putting the best 11 men on the field be it D, O or ST. I suspect when he looked in the mirror recently he could not rest at night knowing Ramsey didn’t give the Skins the best chance to win…not because Brunell is great, but because Brunell is the lesser of two evils if you will. He moves better than the younger Ramsey, throws the ball away when needed and makes better decisions with the football. If Gibbs didn’t make this move he would be shafting 52 other football players and we the fans. Not because he know he’ll win football games but because all his football coaching experience tell him it will. We may very well never know how good Patrick is until he lands with another team, but Gibbs has to do what he feels is the right thing for the team..not Brunell or Ramsey. I trust Joe Gibbs decisions. His words say it all...

"I know this is something that I'm saying to every fan out there and every person that thinks the world of the Redskins and pulls for them," Gibbs said yesterday. "I know a lot of people will disagree with this, and I understand that. For me personally, I felt like it was a decision I had to make."

Now onto Patrick Ramsey, he wants a trade? Are you kidding me? What kind of team player is that? Where is the OK coach whatever you need for the team? Is that to much to ask for? This is a TEAM sports the coach who can get the most of his 53 players on the same page wins…see that team from the north! Hey Patrick are you going to be ready if needed in Dallas? I suspect not..too bust whining about a trade. Want an example of how to take a demotion…look no further than the man who just replaced you.

I cannot believe this.. So much for giving Ramsey an opportunity to lead this team for a season. How can Gibbs stick w/ Brunell as long as he did last year and then pull Ramsey after 3 series (he was cleared to play after halftime)? Even those of you who don't like Ramsey have to admit that Brunell was AWFUL last year -- simply painful to watch. The man cannot throw the ball more than 8 yards downfield. And don't give me that "you can't disagree w/ Gibbs" crap either. I respect the man as much as anyone and yes, I do remember the 3 Superbowls, but just because he's a hall of famer doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does. And I DO NOT agree with this. I think it's a terrible decision and I wish Ramsey the best with another team.
There.. I'm done ranting.

This isn't about who we like it's about who Joe Gibbs feels gives us the best chance to win.

Ok I don't buy this story. I say Patrick on Monday Night Live last night and he said nothing about being traded he even mentioned that he'd like to help this team win and he's waiting for that opportunity or another to present itself. Doesn't sound like he's shredding his burgundy and gold stuff just yet. This is a guy trying to capitalize on the controversy the media was just hoping would happen.

NikiH... the guys not going to whine and complain on national TV... that would get him nowhere with this team or other teams... it doesn't mean he didn't ask to be traded behind the scenes...

I still havent heard Joe mention Brunnell is the starter for the whole year.

I keep hearing reports on him suiting up for the Dallas game only.

We have not heard the last of this story YET.

1. I support Joe Gibbs.

2. Patrick will be in burgundy and gold for the rest of the season.

3. We have not heard the last about Ramsey and the QB position.

4. This is the MOST important move Joe Gibbs will make since his return as headcoach of the Washington Redskins but it is not the last one this season!

5. Great soap opera material. Best line of characters.

Redskin in Canada wrote:We have not heard the last of this story YET.

1. I support Joe Gibbs.

2. Patrick will be in burgundy and gold for the rest of the season.

3. We have not heard the last about Ramsey and the QB position.

4. This is the MOST important move Joe Gibbs will make since his return as headcoach of the Washington Redskins but it is not the last one this season!

5. Great soap opera material. Best line of characters.

If Brunnel whens I wonder who will dig up thse threads

Niki/BTP, I think it's possible that both scenerio's are true. Ramsey's agent could be testing the waters to see who bites. However, neither side would agree to anything unless it helps both sides. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see him here all season but if the right offer is made, it could benefit everyone.

Brunell's our guy right now and, just like I planned on doing when Ramsey was in there, I'm going to watch our D kick some ass and Portis run all over people.