The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

why do so many of you keep bringing Griffin into the conversation? this is the 12th game that he has not participated in - he's not playing QB here and it will take a minor miracle to see him play another down for this franchise

Kirk Cousins is playing well - please show me where I have hoped or wished that Kirk Cousins would not play well in the past 11 games

First and foremost I'm a Redskins fan - I'm also a RG3 fan but I don't dislike or hate Kirk Cousins like some here dislike or hate RG3 - I am not sure that the book is as closed on RG3 as some here make it out to be, it would seem to be highly improbable that RG3 will play QB well but it would not surprise me if he did



Why would anyone try and use common sense when looking at decisions made by Dan Snyder - he has clearly proven that if he had 1 NFL knowledgeable brain cell, it would be lonely

it should be clear that Dan & Bruce brought in Gruden as HC because they hoped he could help RG3 and that as a result he would help the franchise be more competitive - CRAZY right? then after the debacle of a season in 2014 Jay Gruden decided to make RG3 the starting QB here when it was obvious to everyone that Kirk Cousins was the better option for Jay's offense - give me a break

It only makes sense that Jay Gruden was brought here to be the HC, but somewhere in that interview process RG3's lack of progress, inability to read defenses and need for a lot of help, must have come up - I find it hard to believe that Jay Gruden would have got the job to be HC here without making it very clear that he felt he could help make RG3 a better NFL QB

Jay Gruden is still here as the HC, despite failing to help RG3 ONLY because Scot is GM

we're doing a lot better than expected and it's all good but we still need to give Scot more time to get things together here

markshark84 wrote:Gibbs benefited from Beathard far more than I think most truly understand. A GM is FAR more important than a HC. IMHO, the GM IS the most important person within the organization (in situations where the owner knows what he's doing) --- and the SOLE reason the skins have been a disaster since Danny boy took over (not taking into account the fact we have the worst owner in all of sports). And IMHO, if Scot weren't here, we'd already be looking for a new HC --- because we'd probably be in the 2-9 range.

You're comparing a non-salary cap era to a salary cap era. The GM was important in Beathard's time only as a talent evaluator. Cost was, literally, no object under Jack Kent Cooke. What a GM does now is infinitely harder.

Having said that, I agree with your overall point. A quality GM makes or breaks the team. We finally have one.

I agree that Scotty Mc is DEFINITELY the DUDE!!! I think he singlehandedly saved Grudens rear end from a mid season firing. I think Grudens second half woes are still a major concern, but like you, I trust Scott will make the right decisions.. if there's a better option at HC out there, even a playoff run won't keep him safe if Scott wants to move on.

I can't agree about the Snyder comment though. Al Davis was equally as meddling.. Maybe they are equally bad, but his drafting of the fastest players regardless of other attributes is historically bad..

Then there is the Jerruh.. Maybe just because he is the owner of my most hated franchise I hate him more... But his glory hole loving ass has got to be in the running for worst owner in any sport ever. His pride caused him to 86 Jimmy Johnson, who likely woulda delivered at least another championship or more. I LOVE his idiocy however, live long and suck hard Jerry!!!!

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:
I can't agree about the Snyder comment though. Al Davis was equally as meddling.. Maybe they are equally bad, but his drafting of the fastest players regardless of other attributes is historically bad..

Then there is the Jerruh.. Maybe just because he is the owner of my most hated franchise I hate him more... But his glory hole loving ass has got to be in the running for worst owner in any sport ever. His pride caused him to 86 Jimmy Johnson, who likely woulda delivered at least another championship or more. I LOVE his idiocy however, live long and suck hard Jerry!!!!

As far as Al and Jones --- both of them at least had football experience before purchase. The only "sports" experience Danny boy had was running buses from DC to Baltimore to see Bullets games. Davis was a tenured NFL coach and AFL commissioner. Jones at least played college football.

And you think Davis & Danny are equally as bad?????? Lets look at the facts:

Danny boy: 1999-present (16 years): 4 playoff seasons. 2 total playoff wins. And 1 playoff season & win came in the year of purchase (so it' more like 3 playoff seasons and 1 playoff win in 15 years)....

Davis: 1972-1988 (first 16 years): 11 playoff seasons, 3 SBs. I didn't even count the amount of playoff wins.

Yeah, I guess your right......

Sorry, Danny is the worst owner in sports. That is a fact.

markshark84 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:
I can't agree about the Snyder comment though. Al Davis was equally as meddling.. Maybe they are equally bad, but his drafting of the fastest players regardless of other attributes is historically bad..

Then there is the Jerruh.. Maybe just because he is the owner of my most hated franchise I hate him more... But his glory hole loving ass has got to be in the running for worst owner in any sport ever. His pride caused him to 86 Jimmy Johnson, who likely woulda delivered at least another championship or more. I LOVE his idiocy however, live long and suck hard Jerry!!!!

As far as Al and Jones --- both of them at least had football experience before purchase. The only "sports" experience Danny boy had was running buses from DC to Baltimore to see Bullets games. Davis was a tenured NFL coach and AFL commissioner. Jones at least played college football.

And you think Davis & Danny are equally as bad?????? Lets look at the facts:

Danny boy: 1999-present (16 years): 4 playoff seasons. 2 total playoff wins. And 1 playoff season & win came in the year of purchase (so it' more like 3 playoff seasons and 1 playoff win in 15 years)....

Davis: 1972-1988 (first 16 years): 11 playoff seasons, 3 SBs. I didn't even count the amount of playoff wins.

Yeah, I guess your right......

Sorry, Danny is the worst owner in sports. That is a fact.

That whole "fully agreeing" thing, was short lived wasn't it? lmao!

I know you're a stats guy, so how bout you run the numbers of Snyder vs Davis the same year span?

I cant argue about Davis' past success, however it was evident that the game had past him by.. his refusal to employ a GM, or at least listen to one, had his team in shambles from mid 90s until he passed away. Its not a random coincidence that the team finally has put together a couple of solid drafts post Davis. Despite having a perpetual HIGH pick, he squandered them away year in and year out.

If you take a look at what the Jerruh has done post Johnson its not very pretty either; despite having a palethera of talent year in and year out. His meddling, and support of woman beaters is bar-none! I,f or one, cant stand to see or hear him talk.. the guy is complete tool, and I'd gladly take this recently matured "hands off" Snyder over the current Jerruh ANY DAY!

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:
I can't agree about the Snyder comment though. Al Davis was equally as meddling.. Maybe they are equally bad, but his drafting of the fastest players regardless of other attributes is historically bad..

Then there is the Jerruh.. Maybe just because he is the owner of my most hated franchise I hate him more... But his glory hole loving ass has got to be in the running for worst owner in any sport ever. His pride caused him to 86 Jimmy Johnson, who likely woulda delivered at least another championship or more. I LOVE his idiocy however, live long and suck hard Jerry!!!!

As far as Al and Jones --- both of them at least had football experience before purchase. The only "sports" experience Danny boy had was running buses from DC to Baltimore to see Bullets games. Davis was a tenured NFL coach and AFL commissioner. Jones at least played college football.

And you think Davis & Danny are equally as bad?????? Lets look at the facts:

Danny boy: 1999-present (16 years): 4 playoff seasons. 2 total playoff wins. And 1 playoff season & win came in the year of purchase (so it' more like 3 playoff seasons and 1 playoff win in 15 years)....

Davis: 1972-1988 (first 16 years): 11 playoff seasons, 3 SBs. I didn't even count the amount of playoff wins.

Yeah, I guess your right......

Sorry, Danny is the worst owner in sports. That is a fact.

That whole "fully agreeing" thing, was short lived wasn't it? lmao!

I know you're a stats guy, so how bout you run the numbers of Snyder vs Davis the same year span?

I cant argue about Davis' past success, however it was evident that the game had past him by.. his refusal to employ a GM, or at least listen to one, had his team in shambles from mid 90s until he passed away. Its not a random coincidence that the team finally has put together a couple of solid drafts post Davis. Despite having a perpetual HIGH pick, he squandered them away year in and year out.

If you take a look at what the Jerruh has done post Johnson its not very pretty either; despite having a palethera of talent year in and year out. His meddling, and support of woman beaters is bar-none! I,f or one, cant stand to see or hear him talk.. the guy is complete tool, and I'd gladly take this recently matured "hands off" Snyder over the current Jerruh ANY DAY!

I know. I am as disappointed as you are in that our "fully agreeing" didn't last as long as I'd like. Then again, I will disagree with anyone that doesn't think Danny boy is horrendous in every way possible. So, in a way, you can say I'm subjective when it comes to Danny boy.....

As far as the stats, I don't think you can compare Danny boy in his mental/professional prime to Davis after he literally went senile. The first 16 comparison is the most accurate.

Agree that post-johnson Jones has done nothing -- but it is still more than Danny boy. However, I am with you; I dislike the guy almost as much as Danny boy and probably equally as much if he were my teams owner.

Sounds like we are in agreement once again!

I just think Danny (fan)boy deserves an inkling of credit for his efforts. Bringing Gibbs back, then most recently getting the hell out of football operations. He gets a pat on the back for swallowing his pride and bringing in a GM- then he gets props for recognizing Bruce's strengths, giving him the president position (or what ever) and tons of high fives for getting Scotty Mc in office.

From fat Al and bingo callers to hands off letting a football genius build a competitive roster, and having a money guy in Bruce to work his money magic, took some pushing of the ego to the back shelf. Something the other 2 likely never could do.

While the best thing he's done, is doing nothing at all... He still gets credit for making the change. If the Jerruh did the same, and they had a coach who wasn't a gutless wonder and could get a handle on the locker room- the cowboys would be a fierce organization. Thankfully it looks like Garret and Jones (and Ohno! For that matter) aren't going anywhere anytime soon.... Score!!!

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Sounds like we are in agreement once again!

I just think Danny (fan)boy deserves an inkling of credit for his efforts. Bringing Gibbs back, then most recently getting the hell out of football operations. He gets a pat on the back for swallowing his pride and bringing in a GM- then he gets props for recognizing Bruce's strengths, giving him the president position (or what ever) and tons of high fives for getting Scotty Mc in office.

From fat Al and bingo callers to hands off letting a football genius build a competitive roster, and having a money guy in Bruce to work his money magic, took some pushing of the ego to the back shelf. Something the other 2 likely never could do.

While the best thing he's done, is doing nothing at all... He still gets credit for making the change. If the Jerruh did the same, and they had a coach who wasn't a gutless wonder and could get a handle on the locker room- the cowboys would be a fierce organization. Thankfully it looks like Garret and Jones (and Ohno! For that matter) aren't going anywhere anytime soon.... Score!!!

I see your point.

But I still think Danny boy is the worst thing to happen to this franchise in the SB era. I guess the only thing I can concede he could well is get out of the way!!!

Also, I think Danny boy swallowed his pride because he cares too much what people think about him; he's spineless like that. I also think the GM "change" was made due to the dwindling season ticket holders...... (see I'm incapable of giving him credit).

Dan Snyder seems to have stayed out of the decision making and let the NFL guys run things here - there's not a doubt in my mind that he wanted RG3 to be named the starter or that he would have canned Gruden after the bad start if Scot were not here ...

This franchise is still in dire need of Scot's help for a couple more years and hopefully Snyder stays out of the way ...

SkinsJock wrote:Dan Snyder seems to have stayed out of the decision making and let the NFL guys run things here

I'm not willing to buy this yet, and I'd recommend you hold off as well. I really thought Snyder was staying out of things during the Shanny era too just because he was keeping such a low profile.

The fact that Griffin is on the roster still has to raise your eyebrow at least. Not saying its a Snyder decision, but it could be. Its impossible to know for sure.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Dan Snyder seems to have stayed out of the decision making and let the NFL guys run things here

I'm not willing to buy this yet, and I'd recommend you hold off as well. I really thought Snyder was staying out of things during the Shanny era too just because he was keeping such a low profile. The fact that Griffin is on the roster still has to raise your eyebrow at least. Not saying its a Snyder decision, but it could be. Its impossible to know for sure.

OK - I agree that RG3 is still here mainly because of Snyder but I don't think that Scot was quite ready to let him go either ...

I do admit that Snyder may be more a part of things than we know - it does seem as though he's letting these guys manage things ... for now

I hope/think that Snyder will back these guys on keeping Cousins - he can't be that stupid, can he?

SkinsJock wrote:OK - I agree that RG3 is still here mainly because of Snyder but I don't think that Scot was quite ready to let him go either ...

Yeah either one of those things is possible. I don't see how you or I would have any idea of knowing either way.

SkinsJock wrote:I hope/think that Snyder will back these guys on keeping Cousins - he can't be that stupid, can he?

You know the answer to that, don't you?

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Dan Snyder seems to have stayed out of the decision making and let the NFL guys run things here

I'm not willing to buy this yet, and I'd recommend you hold off as well. I really thought Snyder was staying out of things during the Shanny era too just because he was keeping such a low profile. The fact that Griffin is on the roster still has to raise your eyebrow at least. Not saying its a Snyder decision, but it could be. Its impossible to know for sure.

Not really. I think any competent GM probably would have done the same. Absent a trade partner, there is no reason to let him go mid-season where he could be picked up by any future opponent and pumped for information.

markshark84 wrote:
Sorry, Danny is the worst owner in sports. That is a fact.

Snyder is horrible, but there's actually a worse owner in the NFL. Hard as it is to imagine.

The Redskins are generally a hot mess of a disaster ever since Snyder took the reigns. However, that being said, the Browns have been an even bigger disaster since they were reformed. Since they were reformed in 1999, they've had 8 head coaches in 17 years. They've gone 86-181 (winning percentage of 30.3%) in that time frame (Skins by comparison were 113-154, winning percentage of 42.3% which is awful, but it's almost 50% more wins!)

Then Jimmy Haslam bought them, and they've stayed that bad. 18-41 (30.5% winning percentage). While Haslam was indicted for fraud (resulting in a massive settlement), which even the ahole Snyder hasn't been. Under Haslam, they've blown draft picks left and right (3 of the past 4 years they've had 2 first rounds picks, and none of those players are regular starters!), they've blown free agent signings, and generally have been a horrible disaster.

Which is why their fans call their stadium "The Factory of Sadness."

Any time you feel we have it bad as Redskins fans, just think of the fans of the Browns.

^^ I think that is probably why I cannot give any credence to anything OldSchool posts - he's a Browns fan and that is just sad

Deadskins wrote:Not really. I think any competent GM probably would have done the same. Absent a trade partner, there is no reason to let him go mid-season where he could be picked up by any future opponent and pumped for information.

meh. I think the competent GM argument held up for a few weeks up to the trade deadline. Not really buying the "they might pump him for information" idea. Just seems pretty thin to me. The Cowboys didn't seem to have that kind of concern when they dumped Weeden a few weeks ago.

sometime we may find out the real reason that RG3 was kept here even though it seems apparent that there was ZERO chance he was going to see any playing time - one thing is for sure, where Snyder is involved, rational decisions and common sense do not apply, so comparing what the pukes did with Brandon Weeden and RG3 is nonsensical to say the least ... IMO

someone with influence did not want to let RG3 go - it will eventually come out

I do not agree that RG3 will never be a good NFL QB - kid can throw and he's still got some speed, somebody will coach him up

I feel that you learn the most from your mistakes and I think that RG3 has learned an awful lot from this season

PulpExposure wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
Sorry, Danny is the worst owner in sports. That is a fact.

Snyder is horrible, but there's actually a worse owner in the NFL. Hard as it is to imagine.

The Redskins are generally a hot mess of a disaster ever since Snyder took the reigns. However, that being said, the Browns have been an even bigger disaster since they were reformed. Since they were reformed in 1999, they've had 8 head coaches in 17 years. They've gone 86-181 (winning percentage of 30.3%) in that time frame (Skins by comparison were 113-154, winning percentage of 42.3% which is awful, but it's almost 50% more wins!)

Then Jimmy Haslam bought them, and they've stayed that bad. 18-41 (30.5% winning percentage). While Haslam was indicted for fraud (resulting in a massive settlement), which even the ahole Snyder hasn't been. Under Haslam, they've blown draft picks left and right (3 of the past 4 years they've had 2 first rounds picks, and none of those players are regular starters!), they've blown free agent signings, and generally have been a horrible disaster.

Which is why their fans call their stadium "The Factory of Sadness."

Any time you feel we have it bad as Redskins fans, just think of the fans of the Browns.

I actually thought about Haslam, but honestly, he purchased a 4-12 team and its only been there for 3 years. Snyder inherited a playoff team (or at least a team that won went 6-3 in their last 9 games and made the playoffs the next year --- i.e., trending upwards).

That being said, I can see your point in that he's had 3 coaches in 4 years (and most likely 4 coaches in 5 after this year) which is a recipe for failure.

As far as the Haslm settlement, the guy was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. I am sure the guy is a total douche and it appears that way from what I have read. Danny boy, however, is no better. Snyder has been involved in his fair share of lawsuits and the way he purchased the team in 1998-99 was downright unethical (at least how it was explained to me from a majority member of another bidding group).

Regardless, I can say that these are the #1 and #2 worst owners in the NFL. You can make a play for Jones in there, and while it was nearly 20 years ago, he's at least won SBs.

there's not much that separates the 3 of them - all are absolutely horrible owners of an NFL franchise

SkinsJock wrote:sometime we may find out the real reason that RG3 was kept here even though it seems apparent that there was ZERO chance he was going to see any playing time - one thing is for sure, where Snyder is involved, rational decisions and common sense do not apply, so comparing what the pukes did with Brandon Weeden and RG3 is nonsensical to say the least ... IMO

someone with influence did not want to let RG3 go - it will eventually come out

I do not agree that RG3 will never be a good NFL QB - kid can throw and he's still got some speed, somebody will coach him up

I feel that you learn the most from your mistakes and I think that RG3 has learned an awful lot from this season

Keeping Griffin was all SM.

And it makes sense:

-NO ONE wanted to trade for him.
-Cutting him costs money.
-Cutting him also could give an edge to whatever team he would sign with.
-Holding him and cutting him next year costs nothing.

Easy business decision.

^^ makes sense to me - then again, like riggofan pointed out - we don't really know the reason he's here - we do know, that nothing Dan Snyder does with regards to this franchise makes much sense, if any ... RG3 is a part of this roster because Scot wants him here ... we think

all that really matters is that Scot continues to make all the coaching/player choices with help from the FO & hopefully Snyder's support

StorminMormon86 wrote:Keeping Griffin was all SM. And it makes sense:
-We could not get what we wanted in a trade.
-Cutting him costs money.
-Cutting him also could give an edge to whatever team he would sign with.
-Holding him and cutting him next year costs nothing.
Easy business decision.

so, having him on the roster this season so we can cut him next season did not cost the franchise anything - you implying he's here for free?

you continue to spoil us with your input

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Keeping Griffin was all SM. And it makes sense:
-We could not get what we wanted in a trade.
-Cutting him costs money.
-Cutting him also could give an edge to whatever team he would sign with.
-Holding him and cutting him next year costs nothing.
Easy business decision.

so, having him on the roster this season so we can cut him next season did not cost the franchise anything - you implying he's here for free?

you continue to spoil us with your input

I think he's saying that we're paying him either for this year either way. We wouldn't cut him this year and save any money in doing so.

StorminMormon86 wrote:And it makes sense:

-NO ONE wanted to trade for him.
-Cutting him costs money.
-Cutting him also could give an edge to whatever team he would sign with.
-Holding him and cutting him next year costs nothing.

Easy business decision.

I agree with this right up until the trade deadline. After that week, I don't quite understand the decision as much. He's not joining some team in late October and giving anybody an edge. We've needed that roster spot this year with all of the injuries and could have used that spot to protect a guy like Trey Williams on our practice squad.

At this point, it looks more to me like somebody is still in wait and see mode. Not quite ready to say goodbye to RG3. Personally I have no idea if that's McCloughan or Snyder or anybody else.

Chris C00ley just asked Jay Gruden what Kirk Cousins' maximum throwing distance is and Jay Gruden said he can throw it 70 yards.

I just saw him take a small crow hop into the bomb to DJax. He started that move at his 27 yard line and let go of it at the 28. The ball landed in DJax' hands at the other 15 yard line. So Kirk threw that one 57 yards pretty easily.