The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:It would have to be game after game of that, with Robert showing no signs of progressing, for Gruden to even consider a switch. And no, I don't think Bruce or the Danny would even figure into the decision. Maybe if it was a permanent switch, but certainly not an in-game move. I just really don't foresee how that could ever come to pass.

I'm not sure why you would think I was suggesting Gruden would call Allen/Snyder up in the middle of a game to discuss benching the QB. The question was about whether RGIII would get a full 16 games or not. Personally I would think if after eight games, Gruden thought he he had to pull the plug on RGIII for the rest of the season there would probably be a discussion about that with Bruce Allen at the very least.

If he isnt hurt then he plays simple as that..
ShEli threw 27 interceptions last year and has led the league in multiple years... he stunk it up all preseason actually WORSE then Robert. He hasnt even had a record breaking year like Robert... and there isnt one iota of concern who is the stsrter for nyg. No lets stsrt Nassim? Rumors nadda.

Got to love ol dc!

OldSchool wrote:Changing the QB is in my opinion is Dan Snyder's decision, I think Snyder made it clear to Gruden when he was hired he was tasked with turning Griffin into a fully able NFL QB, giving the job to Cousins a Shanahan pick is not an option.

Agree. Danny will ultimately revert back to his meddling ways. He can't help it; egomaniacs rarely can.

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:It would have to be game after game of that, with Robert showing no signs of progressing, for Gruden to even consider a switch. And no, I don't think Bruce or the Danny would even figure into the decision. Maybe if it was a permanent switch, but certainly not an in-game move. I just really don't foresee how that could ever come to pass.

I'm not sure why you would think I was suggesting Gruden would call Allen/Snyder up in the middle of a game to discuss benching the QB. The question was about whether RGIII would get a full 16 games or not. Personally I would think if after eight games, Gruden thought he he had to pull the plug on RGIII for the rest of the season there would probably be a discussion about that with Bruce Allen at the very least.

I wasn't suggesting he would call up to the booth during the game, just that his thinking wouldn't involve Bruce or the Danny not being ok with the move. And I really don't see why BA or DS should enter into his decision between games either. Bruce is responsible for bringing in players, not any part of how to use, or not use, them. And DS should be the last person weighing in on any such matters.

markshark84 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Changing the QB is in my opinion is Dan Snyder's decision, I think Snyder made it clear to Gruden when he was hired he was tasked with turning Griffin into a fully able NFL QB, giving the job to Cousins a Shanahan pick is not an option.

Agree. Danny will ultimately revert back to his meddling ways. He can't help it; egomaniacs rarely can.

That you would agree with OS, should be reason enough to doubt your stance is valid. BTW, Griffin was a Shanahan pick too.

Also, Snyder didn't bring in either coach, Bruce did. And he brought them in to win games, not to favor certain players.

Robert will play until we hear the crowd react. Thats how long he'll play.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:If he isnt hurt then he plays simple as that..
ShEli threw 27 interceptions last year and has led the league in multiple years... he stunk it up all preseason actually WORSE then Robert. He hasnt even had a record breaking year like Robert... and there isnt one iota of concern who is the stsrter for nyg. No lets stsrt Nassim? Rumors nadda.

Got to love ol dc!

Now I do not think Griffin will play as awful, but you really would be ok with sticking with Griffin after 4-5 weeks if he's putting up John Beck numbers? Not saying he will, just a hypothetical. And you really can't compare Eli to Griffin. Eli would ultimately have a much larger leash due to those Superbowl wins.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:If he isnt hurt then he plays simple as that..
ShEli threw 27 interceptions last year and has led the league in multiple years... he stunk it up all preseason actually WORSE then Robert. He hasnt even had a record breaking year like Robert... and there isnt one iota of concern who is the stsrter for nyg. No lets stsrt Nassim? Rumors nadda.

Got to love ol dc!

Now I do not think Griffin will play as awful, but you really would be ok with sticking with Griffin after 4-5 weeks if he's putting up John Beck numbers? Not saying he will, just a hypothetical. And you really can't compare Eli to Griffin. Eli would ultimately have a much larger leash due to those Superbowl wins.

I can't imagine we sit our franchise QB at this early stage of his career after only 4-5 games, that would be insane.

I can't imagine that a QB that has the talent that Robert has shown will not find a way to be a better NFL QB

each and every practice, each and every game, he will find a way to be better - that's just who he is

if for some reason there is no progress and it becomes obvious that he's not going to be an effective QB, then he will be replaced

I just cannot see that happening

let me ask the doubters a question -

based on everything we know about Robert Griffin III, do you think he's more likely to be a good NFL QB or to be a huge disappointment?

enjoy the growth

I believe those who think Allen and (possibly) Snyder will have a hand in this decision are partially right. I think if they are in a win now mode mentality, if Griffin struggles, than it's possible to see a switch at some point. If they are of the mindset that they want to see what Griffin can bring to the table in terms of developing for the future (I Think this is the most likely) then you'll see him all 16 games.

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Changing the QB is in my opinion is Dan Snyder's decision, I think Snyder made it clear to Gruden when he was hired he was tasked with turning Griffin into a fully able NFL QB, giving the job to Cousins a Shanahan pick is not an option.

Agree. Danny will ultimately revert back to his meddling ways. He can't help it; egomaniacs rarely can.

That you would agree with OS, should be reason enough to doubt your stance is valid. BTW, Griffin was a Shanahan pick too.

Also, Snyder didn't bring in either coach, Bruce did. And he brought them in to win games, not to favor certain players.

So I assume you were there in the draft room when we made the RGIII pick? You also must have taken part in the HC hiring process? You were there for both hirings and can offer first-hand certainty of this?

Due to your apparent confidence in this, it could only be that you would answer all of these questions is an astounding yes. And based on what I have read on this forum, I don't consider you naive enough to response with "here's how I know ---- with an attached link from some washingtonpost.com or espn media article.....

If Griffin shows that he's going to be the QB that most knowledgeable people think he will be, he will be given every opportunity to be that QB no matter what Snyder, Allen or the Redskins media think

there's little doubt that he's adapting to a new style and the new offense - he's going to continue to get better

Deadskins wrote:And I really don't see why BA or DS should enter into his decision between games either. Bruce is responsible for bringing in players, not any part of how to use, or not use, them. And DS should be the last person weighing in on any such matters.

That's just insanely naive, and I don't think you honestly believe that. We're not talking about benching the starting middle linebacker. We're talking about the franchise QB that we gave away three first round picks to acquire. If Gruden were to decide in week 8 that he was benching RGIII for the rest of the season, I'm sure that is a conversation and decision made with Gruden and Bruce Allen involved.

I don't think I'm suggesting anything outlandish here. In my own job, if I hired a programmer for $150K/yr then decided to sit him in a corner twiddling his thumb while a $13/hr guy writes all the code, I'm sure my freaking CEO would weigh in on that decision.

SkinsJock wrote:If Griffin shows that he's going to be the QB that most knowledgeable people think he will be, he will be given every opportunity to be that QB no matter what Snyder, Allen or the Redskins media think

I completely agree. And I wasn't suggesting that Snyder/Allen would ever be telling Gruden to bench RGIII. I'm saying I don't think first year head coach, Jay Gruden, would ever make that decision completely on his own. That would be a really big decision that would hugely affect the franchise.

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:BTW, Griffin was a Shanahan pick too.

Also, Snyder didn't bring in either coach, Bruce did. And he brought them in to win games, not to favor certain players.

So I assume you were there in the draft room when we made the RGIII pick? You also must have taken part in the HC hiring process? You were there for both hirings and can offer first-hand certainty of this?

This has to be your most absurd post ever. Are you really saying that Cousins was a Shanahan pick at the same time you're saying that RGIII was not? (Hint: Both players were taken in the same draft)

I think DS has great respect for BA, because of who his father was. And while he surely signed off on both HCs, and ultimately pays their salary, it was BA who did the actual hiring.

riggofan wrote:I don't think I'm suggesting anything outlandish here. In my own job, if I hired a programmer for $150K/yr then decided to sit him in a corner twiddling his thumb while a $13/hr guy writes all the code, I'm sure my freaking CEO would weigh in on that decision.

He might weigh in on it after the fact, but it was your decision to make, and you made it. Would you run to him before you decided to sit the programmer in the corner and ask his permission to do so? Especially, if you were adamant that the cheaper guy was the better option for writing the code?

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:If Griffin shows that he's going to be the QB that most knowledgeable people think he will be, he will be given every opportunity to be that QB no matter what Snyder, Allen or the Redskins media think

I completely agree. And I wasn't suggesting that Snyder/Allen would ever be telling Gruden to bench RGIII. I'm saying I don't think first year head coach, Jay Gruden, would ever make that decision completely on his own. That would be a really big decision that would hugely affect the franchise.

And I never said he would make the decision on his own either. He would obviously consult the other coaches. I just don't think he would run to the GM or the owner to ask their permission.

lol ooookay. I'm sure you're completely right. Jay Gruden would definitely not consult with the team's general manager before benching the franchise QB. I'm sure his boss, Dan Snyder, would have no problem with him giving up on the guy we traded three first round picks for without explaining the decision first. Because, that's the way the world works.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:I don't think I'm suggesting anything outlandish here. In my own job, if I hired a programmer for $150K/yr then decided to sit him in a corner twiddling his thumb while a $13/hr guy writes all the code, I'm sure my freaking CEO would weigh in on that decision.

He might weigh in on it after the fact, but it was your decision to make, and you made it. Would you run to him before you decided to sit the programmer in the corner and ask his permission to do so? Especially, if you were adamant that the cheaper guy was the better option for writing the code?

I'm sure if he'd traded three top notch programmers for the guy I benched, he'd definitely "weigh in after the fact".

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:I don't think I'm suggesting anything outlandish here. In my own job, if I hired a programmer for $150K/yr then decided to sit him in a corner twiddling his thumb while a $13/hr guy writes all the code, I'm sure my freaking CEO would weigh in on that decision.

He might weigh in on it after the fact, but it was your decision to make, and you made it. Would you run to him before you decided to sit the programmer in the corner and ask his permission to do so? Especially, if you were adamant that the cheaper guy was the better option for writing the code?

I'm sure if he'd traded three top notch programmers for the guy I benched, he'd definitely "weigh in after the fact".

Then he'd be a fool. How much you paid for him shouldn't figure into the decision of who writes the best code to help your business succeed.

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:BTW, Griffin was a Shanahan pick too.

Also, Snyder didn't bring in either coach, Bruce did. And he brought them in to win games, not to favor certain players.

So I assume you were there in the draft room when we made the RGIII pick? You also must have taken part in the HC hiring process? You were there for both hirings and can offer first-hand certainty of this?

This has to be your most absurd post ever. Are you really saying that Cousins was a Shanahan pick at the same time you're saying that RGIII was not? (Hint: Both players were taken in the same draft)

I think DS has great respect for BA, because of who his father was. And while he surely signed off on both HCs, and ultimately pays their salary, it was BA who did the actual hiring.

Did you read my post? I never said anything about Cousins; at all. I never said that RGIII was or was not a Shanahan or Snyder influenced pick. I never said that both hirings were or were not made by Snyder or Allen. I am merely responding to your post ---- written as fact by someone who appears to have first-hand knowledge of the situation --- in an effort to verify that you can, in fact, support your statements with such first hand knowledge.

That being said, I find it quite odd that Shanahan, when he knew he was going to be fired, benched RGIII in favor of Cousins. While I am not saying that this action supports the stance you incorrectly infer, I just find it interesting.

I also think you are a little naive to the draft process. The fact someone was taken in the same draft means very little when it comes to ownership influence. I am not saying that this is something Snyder does or doesn't do; but owners tend to be more interested in rounds 1-2 vs. 6-7....

markshark84 wrote:Did you read my post? I never said anything about Cousins; at all. I never said that RGIII was or was not a Shanahan or Snyder influenced pick.

No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.
[/discussion]

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:BTW, Griffin was a Shanahan pick too.

Also, Snyder didn't bring in either coach, Bruce did. And he brought them in to win games, not to favor certain players.

So I assume you were there in the draft room when we made the RGIII pick? You also must have taken part in the HC hiring process? You were there for both hirings and can offer first-hand certainty of this?

This has to be your most absurd post ever. Are you really saying that Cousins was a Shanahan pick at the same time you're saying that RGIII was not? (Hint: Both players were taken in the same draft)

I think DS has great respect for BA, because of who his father was. And while he surely signed off on both HCs, and ultimately pays their salary, it was BA who did the actual hiring.

Allen hired Gruden. Dan hired Shanny.

Deadskins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Did you read my post? I never said anything about Cousins; at all. I never said that RGIII was or was not a Shanahan or Snyder influenced pick.

No, you just quoted OldSchool saying those things and said you agreed.
[/discussion]

OMG! I always see sh$t about Griffen and Cousins with OldSchool. Even making subjects. There are more people bring the qb controversy, including a former qb from the redskins. RG3 has more of a ceiling and he showed his first year! Cousins had 3 chances last year and he didn't show he was a consistent above average qb.

So please STFU even the professionals bringing it up!!! Gruden is handling it great saying we already have a starter. If the starting qb is struggling in the regular season again, now that he's more healthy (I did think that cousins should have played the first few games of the season last year when RG3 clearly wasn't ready yet).

BUY SOME HATORADE!!!

SkinsJock wrote:If Griffin shows that he's going to be the QB that most knowledgeable people think he will be, he will be given every opportunity to be that QB no matter what Snyder, Allen or the Redskins media think

there's little doubt that he's adapting to a new style and the new offense - he's going to continue to get better

Most knowledgeable people? I don't think there is a consensus on Griffin's development. You believe Griffin is destined to become a great QB Robert Griffin, it is an article of faith for you and many others including Daniel Snyder but right now the only consensus regarding him is that he looked very uncomfortable and ineffective during this preseason. True believers like yourself are certain he'll improve and play well while a growing body of skeptics like me are nearly, not totally, but nearly convinced he'll never become a real NFL QB. Don't bother talking to me about 2012, if you don't understand that a option QB in the NFL is the very definition of Fools Gold than you are not a "knowledgeable person." They went to the option stuff in 2012 because he was ineffective running Shannys West Coast, now we have seen Griffin languish trying to run Gruden's. The Gruden version of a simplified RGIII training wheels offense will probably be revealed in Houston because Griffin seems too dense to run the real thing.