The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:13 am**

Red_One43 wrote:.. My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

you know what - that seems like a very good guess to me too

thanks for the background stuff

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:40 pm**

Redskin in Canada wrote:I respect the passion and knowledge shown by a number of posters in this thread. I am a bit at a loss to make any calls about the WR corps when we do not have an idea who is the starting QB and what his strengths are as a fit to whatever WRs we have.

HOWEVER, there are people whom I do not want to see back: Malcolm Kelly is one player with whom the team made yet another Draft mistake and he has been given PLENTY of time to show what he did not and could not do. He was diagnosed early enough in the Draft to have had an injury prone career and it was true. He may have great hands according to some experts. Too bad the rest of his body was not up to the level to stand the weekly punishment of the NFL.

Time to cut our losses and let him go.

You are right. It is waaay to early to make the calls without giving into speculation and assumptions, but with the lockout going on there is not much else to talk about

; however, I am thinking it will be fun to see how the posters' choices evolve after the free agency period and during the pre-season and up to the time before the final roster is set for Week 1 (Can you tell that I am quite optimistic that a deal will be worked out in time?). I admit my calls assume that the draft choices will perform to expectation, but we all know that many of our receiver draft choices have fallen far short of what was expected.

That brings us to Malcolm Kelly. I certainly understand where you are coming from with him. I would like to see him back and given a shot to see if he has taken advantage of his time off and got his body healthy and honed his route running skills. I am pretty sure that we don't have much to lose to at least take a look at him in camp and the pre-season.

For now, I assume (purely, an assumption by using his past history) he won't be healthy thus I leave him off my six.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:12 pm**

SkinsJock wrote:all very well but I think they are going to bring in a FA WR - and on the other hand, I'm cogniscant that we need to think long term as well - this franchise is still a work in progress and the offense, especially, needs time

I hope that we bring Moss back - he will be a big help for our younger players

I think that the only way Moss is not back is if some other team outbids us for his services and I think that it would have to be a substantial higher bid. I believe that Moss would not sign with another team for just a few pennies more

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:35 pm**

SkinsJock wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:.. My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

you know what - that seems like a very good guess to me too

thanks for the background stuff

You're welcome. I had fun doing it. I felt like I got to know the players better. Glad that you recognize it for what it is - a guess. I like that term.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:24 pm**

Burress? The last star player that came out of jail was apparently pretty motivated.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:59 pm**

I like Red's list too.. most important name on there is...

MOSS !

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:11 pm**

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I want to look at Aldrick Robinson.
Here is a height and weight comparison of him and Moss and Austin since the biggest knock on him is his size and that he is a "lanky' 5'10" with very little strength to out muscle DBs for the ball.

I chose Moss for comparison because almost all the scouting reports on Robinson say that he is to be successful in the NFL, it will have to be at the slot. Folks are thinking that Moss will be our Slot receiver next year. I chose Austin because, he is clearly on the bubble this year and Robinson is close to his size.

Aldrick Robinson - 5' 10" 184
Santana Moss - 5'10" - 205
Terrance Austin - 5'11" - 175

http://www.redskins.com/team/roster.html

Robinson - 4.43 Combine 40 yrd dash
Austin - 4.52 Combine
Paul - 4.51 Combine
Santana Moss - 4.31 Combine (Just threw that in for kicks and grins)

Reports on Robinson: The only consistent knock on him is he is small and "frail," "lanky" and lacks a physical game. Everyone seems to agree that he is limited to the slot for the pros and that is why his draft stock slid.

http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3 ... ports.html

Can he return kicks?

He only returned 5 kick offs for his college career and no punt returns.
A statement by Wes Bunting can give an indication that he could be an outstadning kick returner. Wes Bunting can be found in the link above.

"Displays some wiggle and lateral quickness with the ball in his hands. Gets up to speed quickly, can make a man miss and create after the catch. He's a tough kid who isn't afraid to work the middle of the field as well."

Robinson's prospects on making the roster:

Robinson receiver coach at SMU, Jeff Reinebold:

"Last year, a scout told me that Emmanuel (Sanders) was the most advanced wide receiver he scouted, and this year, I had the same thing said to me about Al," Reinebold said. "One reason June has had so many players in the league is that he teaches the difference between knowledge and understanding, and the fact that you have to have both. Al has both. I'm biased, of course, but when look at some of the guys who were drafted ahead of him, he is so much more advanced as a receiver, the way he runs his routes, the way he uses his hands, the way he sets up defenders. He has gone from being just a fast kid to being a pretty polished receiver."

http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-fo ... aaa.html#_

I didn't list Robinson as one of my six, but I had him making the practice squad like Austin did last year. After my research. I am saying he makes the team (that means I have to give up on Malcolm Kelly, at least for now). I believe that he will prove to be a good kick returner, but it remains to be seen if he has the vision of Banks as a returns.

My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

Looks as good as anything can be at this point. I expect Johnson & Price are no more than camp fodder.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:48 pm**

Now, I will take a look at Leonard Hankerson.

Leonard Hankerson 6' 2" 209 Combine 40 yrd - 4.43

The scouts love his frame (long arms are an extra plus) and the way he attacks the ball. He is also a good blocker. Excellent body control - good at toe tapping. He will make a good possession receiver said one scout. From the link, below, the scouts were consistent about the criticism of his speed. The are not saying that he isn't fast. They are saying he isn't quick and can be slow of fhis cuts. His drops usually come because he doesn't consistently catch with his hands.

http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3 ... erson.html

I like the link above because it shows several scouting reports together. I only take note of the strengths and weakness that consistent in the reports. Hankerson sound like out go to guy when we need a key first down or a TD within the Red zone. He can also block. He also sounds like a guy who wants to learn.

Hankerson's College Career Stats

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... son-1.html

Height, Weight and Speed Comparison of my six:

Leonard Hankerson 6' 2" 209 Combine 40 yrd - 4.43
Santana Moss 5' 10" 205 Combine 40 yrd - 4.31
Anthony Armstrong 5' 11' 182 N/A
Niles Paul 6' 1" 224 Combine 40 4.51
Aldrick Robinson 5' 10" 184 Combine 40 4.4
Brandon Banks 5' 7" 155 Combine 40 4.43

Just for Comparison:

Roydell Williams 6' 0" 180 4.5 at his pro day
Joey Galloway 5' 11" 197 4.38 Combine 40
Terrance Austin 5' 11" 175 4.5 Combine
Maurice Price 6' 1" 197 4.47 Scouts
Taurus Johnson 6' 1" 218 4.52 Combine
Malcolm Kelly 6' 4" 226 4.68 Pro Day

Note* Combine 40 yard Dash times are averages of the players times.
Shanny says that Armstrong and Banks are in the 4.3 - 4.4 range.
Banks claims that he had a sore hamstring during the Combine.
Both Armstrong and Banks claim sub 4.3 speed. Moss actually ran a sub 4.3 at the combine for one of his runs.

My Six sorely lack NFL experience

Moss - 10 years
Armstrong - 1 year
Hankerson - R
Paul - R
Robinson - R
Banks - 1

If somehow this is our wr roster for the season:

Shows why Moss must be resigned what vet receiver out there would you bring in to work with these youngsters..
Cool

ey will play a huge role.
Davis will have step it up.
We need shore up that O line and run the ball a lot more (especially with our QB's).

Do we really need to go after veteran WR's if Shanny is on three year plan to build a winning foundation for this franchise? I rather let these guys develop (of course, assuming that the youngsters live up to expectations during camp and preseason games.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:20 pm**

Here's more on Niles Paul from scouting reports.
I didn't include this link on my post about him.

http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3 ... -paul.html

Reports saw that he is raw as a wideout, but he is definitely a high motor guy. He the the type of player that will work hard to get better. I doubt that he will start a single game as a rookie, but I am solidly convinced that he will make this team even without the benefit of seeing him in camp and preseason. On a team with a stable of good receivers he might get cut, but he is needed here.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:03 am**

"A thick, compact receiver who possesses good overall muscle tone and girth through his upper body..."

Girth.... LMAO

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:28 pm**

Chris Luva Luva wrote:"A thick, compact receiver who possesses good overall muscle tone and girth through his upper body..."

Girth.... LMAO

Chris, you still watching Beavis and Butthead?

DarthMonk

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:48 pm**

Red_One43 wrote:.. My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

How does this sound for a starting 3?

1 Sidney Rice (FA from Vikings)
2 Hankerson

Slot Moss

Then we bring in AA and BB for the 4 and 5 WR sets.

Now if we can find a QB and block for him .. maybe run a little.

DarthMonk

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:18 am**

DarthMonk wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:.. My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

How does this sound for a starting 3?

1 Sidney Rice (FA from Vikings)
2 Hankerson

Slot Moss

Then we bring in AA and BB for the 4 and 5 WR sets.

Now if we can find a QB and block for him .. maybe run a little.

DarthMonk

I would be in favor of signing Sidney Rice. However, I doubt we will attract a free agent of his caliber given our QB situation. The only person at that level that would be willing to play here will more than likely be motivated by money. With our shift away from luring those players with large contracts, it looks like we will have to do it the old fashioned way, and hope that Hankerson can become one of those guys.

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:36 pm**

Sidney Rice could be a great addition, but I have to agree with Hogster about not luring folks with big money. I think that Rice will undoubtedly be given a big incentive to stay in Minnesota, so it will take big money to get him. I am not so sure he is worth overpaying for since he has only had one big year and he is coming off an injury.

Since we don't have the QB yet, I say go with the young set of receivers and build both the defensive and offensive lines during free agency and go after the Raiders CB - he is worth the money - a highly paid guy that actually plays hard - can't go wrong spending money on that rare breed. He should have 3 - 4 solid years as a corner and then a move to safety could have him around for awhile.

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:09 pm**

Since I have been profiling our rookie WR's. I thought it would be interesting to see what the scouting reports said about Brandon Banks. Did they get it right?

Banks is an undersized receiver who has exceptional straight-line speed and acceleration but is not all that elusive when running in traffic. He is more of a one-cut-and-go type of runner once he gets the ball in his hands. He will need a lot of work on his route-running skills as well as setting defenders up for his cuts, but there is no question he has the speed and acceleration to scare secondaries down the seam. He is brave when going up for the ball ... Character could be a concern for some teams, as well.

I think that this report nailed it. Often I think of little guys as elusive, but Banks isn't. He makes that cut and then his speed kills. If he was more elusive, he might be in the Hestor league. The route-running is a consistent issue reported by scouts. I saw him run some poor routes in pre-season. I thought he looked much better when he played later in the season. Character issues? Who knew?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/bra ... ?id=497266

... an explosive athlete who is a threat to score every time he touches the ball ... However, it is his kick returning that makes Banks a draftable player. During the 2009 regular season, Banks returned four of his 39 kick-offs for a touchdown. He is not as effective of a punt returner, but he is certainly more than capable of being one at the next level. Banks may get drafted for his special team abilities, but he needs to work on his receiving skills (especially his route running) before he can be any NFL team's third or fourth receiver.

Threat to score every time he touches the ball is a consistent theme among the scouts about Banks prior to the draft (Of note, nobody is talking about his supposed competition for his kick return duties this year). His college stats as a punt returner in college were not that impressive. It is interesting that Banks first made his mark as a PR. He definitely got drafted for his special team abilities. Again the route running issue which I believe that McCardell coached him up a bit last year.

I am convinced that the only way Banks is not on this team this year is if he rediscovers his fumblitist that he had last pre-season. He did faily well in the regular season with only two fumbles but none lost.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/prof ... ct_id=2246

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:34 pm**

*cough cough*.. moss

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:55 pm**

Moss is a stud but he's getting old as h*ll. He can't be the answer every year.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:56 pm**

The Hogster wrote:Moss is a stud but he's getting old as h*ll. He can't be the answer every year.

32 ain't really old as hell. He could have 3 more years (or even more if we're lucky) on him.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:12 pm**

The Hogster wrote:Moss is a stud but he's getting old as h*ll. He can't be the answer every year.

We don't need him to be the answer my friend, he can be the tutor for all I care.. bottom line is we need him in the lineup. That lil guy is fast, can run routes very crisp, and has great hands still.. oh, and he can take a hit. So whatever happens with the other WRs, Moss is a guy that I feel we need out there. I know you agree with me too :lol:

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:24 pm**

VetSkinsFan wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Moss is a stud but he's getting old as h*ll. He can't be the answer every year.

32 ain't really old as hell. He could have 3 more years (or even more if we're lucky) on him.

I agree. I said "getting" old as hell. And in receiver years, 32 is old. Maybe not as hell. But old.

@Langley - Yes. We need him. Because we suck. Last year demonstrated that Moss is better in the slot. He's more effective moving around. Hopefully Hankerson can become a legit #1 receiver. Having an effective edge receiver will help him have a longer career.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:48 pm**

A breakout year from Malcom Kelly would be nice. Must agree with all posts advocating youth over big-money signings.

... and yes, re-emergence of fumble-itis could do in Banks.

DarthMonk

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:29 pm**

How I would love to see Malcolm Kelly finally prove to be an NFL receiver. He has hands like they are encased in stickum and he is 6'4." We certainly could use a tall wide receiver. I had him on my first list, but I had to take him off in favor of Aldrick Robinson based on my research that Aldrick comes pro ready in terms of reading coverages and can stretch the defenses.

Kelly's biggest problem when he played was getting separation. He doesn't have anything close to elite speed, so he needs to be a better route runner to get that separation. Has he been showing up to the player practices? If he isn't, it would seem like he needs to be there. I sure hope he highered a receiver guru like Steve Largent and is working out with this guru; otherwise, I don't see him making the team.

Posted: **Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:47 pm**

langleyparkjoe wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Moss is a stud but he's getting old as h*ll. He can't be the answer every year.

We don't need him to be the answer my friend, he can be the tutor for all I care.. bottom line is we need him in the lineup. That lil guy is fast, can run routes very crisp, and has great hands still.. oh, and he can take a hit. So whatever happens with the other WRs, Moss is a guy that I feel we need out there. I know you agree with me too

Agreed we definitely NEED him. Even if we were to go out and sign a big name free agent, he still needs to learn the offense in a short period of time (I will be stunned if we do sign one). Then there is the tutoring part that you mentioned. The new signee will not be able to tutor about the Offense and I doubt that Armstrong, a one year starter period, can tutor the way an established veteran like Moss can. With our young stable of receivers, Moss must be resigned - the only way you don't is if we get outrageously outbid for his services. Since Shanny is promoting a three year plan, year two is still a finding the pieces year, so saving money for other pieces is optimum.

Posted: **Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:52 pm**

DarthMonk wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:.. My Six right now are

Armstrong
Moss
Hankerson
Paul
Robinson
Banks

How does this sound for a starting 3?

1 Sidney Rice (FA from Vikings)
2 Hankerson

Slot Moss

Then we bring in AA and BB for the 4 and 5 WR sets.

Now if we can find a QB and block for him .. maybe run a little.

DarthMonk

Why bench AA? He had a breakout season & didn't even begin the year as starter.

Posted: **Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:51 pm**

Good question about why bench AA. We can expect AA to get even better because he is a guy with a work ethic..

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