It was reported Monday that NFL players met independently with their attorneys in Minnesota. That report proved false as it was then reported players were actually meeting with owners for more labor negotiations.
And when that too proved to be off target many were left scratching their heads, puzzled as to the actual nature of these meetings in the Land of 1,000 Lakes.
So what is the going on?
Albert Breer of the NFL Network reports owners and players have been kicked out of the room and it’s the attorneys turn to get down to business.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFLPA DeMaurice Smith, along with their respective lawyers, are the holding talks, but their exact nature is unknown.
Gregg Rosenthal of PFT speculates the two sides could be talking settlement in the Brady v. NFL antitrust case.
Another possibility is the two sides are putting pen to paper and hammering out the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, having already received their marching orders from their sides.
Owners met last week in Chicago and may have voted on their terms for the CBA, meaning their presence is no longer mandatory in the proceedings.
That’s all speculation at this point. We just don’t know.
The one thing that’s certain is uncertainty. However, with this misdirection, misreporting, and misguided attempt at journalism there is one cold hard fact that cannot be dismissed. The two sides are still talking.
Don’t be surprised if we’re in the home stretch.
Lawyers Only
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When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
no worries - it's almost done and I'll bet the players are not getting as big a split as before
this will end up being within point (or 2) of being a 50-50 split
the owners "will not like it" and the players "will not like it" but we'll have football again
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:no worries - it's almost done and I'll bet the players are not getting as big a split as before this will end up being within point (or 2) of being a 50-50 split
the owners "will not like it" and the players "will not like it" but we'll have football again
We painted earlier today a fairly rosy picture of the current status of the labor negotiations, based on the four straight days of talks with no players or owners present — and the decision of the two key figures in the labor dispute to behave like old friends, not mortal enemies, via their trip to Florida for Roger Goodell’s appearance at the seminar for the rookies organized by DeMaurice Smith.
Since then, we’ve learned from a source with knowledge of the dynamics on both sides of the table that the process remains, relatively speaking, far from over. And the blame for the delay is being placed on the owners.
Per the source, a deal could have been done a week or two ago, but the owners have been playing games with some of the numbers, possibly relying upon the emergence and strengthening sense that the players are ready to get a deal done in order to squeeze the players on some of the smaller issues.
So what’s going on this week, featuring four days of talks without owners and players? It could be that Goodell and Smith have opted to take full charge of the process in the hopes of ironing out all of the things on which the parties agree, and then to generate a list of the things on which they still disagree. Then, the owners and players can return next week and knock out the remaining list of issues to be resolved, with Goodell and Smith pushing hard for their respective constituents to be fair.
If that’s the case, those issues need to be identified worked out by the end of next week, in order to then allow the various approvals to be obtained in time to have meaningful free agency before the first of the training camps open. Even then, a one-week lag between striking a deal and obtaining approval from the court in Minnesota would leave the Bears and Rams roughly a week to sign their rookies and free agents before opening camp in advance of the Hall of Fame game.
Though we’ve got no problem with the two sides trying to get a good deal, we’re hoping that the sense of trust and friendship that has emerged between Goodell and Smith will infect the entire process, and that the owners won’t take advantage of the perception of inevitability in order to take advantage of the players as to various details that could derail a deal.
That responsibility on the owners ultimately lands on the lap of Goodell, who now must show true leadership in persuading the folks to whom he answers to not push so hard on the minor issues to possibly prevent a deal from being finalized.
Maybe 55-45
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When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
De Smith and Roger Goodell speak at the rookie symposisum.
Definitely a good sign when these two men can fly on the same ariplane to the same event and speak on the same sheet of music.
Albert Breer, NFL Network Reporter:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith opened a four-day labor discussion in Minnesota, then hopped on a plane to Florida to speak to rookie players
It was reported Monday that NFL players met independently with their attorneys in Minnesota. That report proved false as it was then reported players were actually meeting with owners for more labor negotiations.
And when that too proved to be off target many were left scratching their heads, puzzled as to the actual nature of these meetings in the Land of 1,000 Lakes.
So what is the going on?
Albert Breer of the NFL Network reports owners and players have been kicked out of the room and it’s the attorneys turn to get down to business.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFLPA DeMaurice Smith, along with their respective lawyers, are the holding talks, but their exact nature is unknown.
Gregg Rosenthal of PFT speculates the two sides could be talking settlement in the Brady v. NFL antitrust case.
Another possibility is the two sides are putting pen to paper and hammering out the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, having already received their marching orders from their sides.
Owners met last week in Chicago and may have voted on their terms for the CBA, meaning their presence is no longer mandatory in the proceedings.
That’s all speculation at this point. We just don’t know.
The one thing that’s certain is uncertainty. However, with this misdirection, misreporting, and misguided attempt at journalism there is one cold hard fact that cannot be dismissed. The two sides are still talking.
Don’t be surprised if we’re in the home stretch.
Lawyers Only
That didn't last long.....
Albert Breer of NFL Network reports that owners and players are arriving in Minneapolis to re-join the talks on Thursday, following three days of meetings between their legal teams. Thursday’s meetings will feature a select group of owners and a select group of players, as well as Goodell, Smith and the lawyers.
At the moment the sides are scheduled to wrap up their meeting on Thursday and not get together on Friday, but they’re leaving their schedules open for Friday in case they think they should keep it going at the end of the day Thursday.
We’d have to assume that this is a good sign. After the lawyers have traded proposals this week, it doesn’t seem likely that the lawyers would call in their clients if they didn’t think a face-to-face meeting was going to be productive.
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When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
just my feeling and I know VERY little - I think they've agreed on the split and are just haggling over the details
very important details, but c'mon man
I just hope they get a CBA in the next week and that it's for 10 years
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
At one point Thursday, labor talks between NFL owners and players seemed to be in serious peril.
And then the parties negotiated for nearly nine more hours.
In the end, the owners and players -- who returned to the talks after their legal teams negotiated through the first three days this week -- logged nearly 16 hours before U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, working into the wee hours. NFL general counsel Jeff Pash and outside counsel Bob Batterman were the last participants to leave the building, at just before 1 a.m. local time.
The largest issue was the revenue split and the willingness to commit to a true "all revenue" model. The subject caused a snag in negotiations between the legal teams Monday and arose again Thursday. But even after the conference call, which set off widespread pessimism following Wednesday's optimism, the parties were able to talk deep into the night.
Among the owners who joined NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in the talks Thursday were Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots, Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys, John Mara of the New York Giants and Clark Hunt of the Kansas City Chiefs. Kraft and Mara have been the two constants for the owners in these meetings.
NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith's team included outside counsel Jim Quinn, general counsel Richard Berthelsen, Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday, Baltimore Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth, Chiefs guard Brian Waters and former Arizona Cardinals special-teams ace Sean Morey. Foxworth, like Kraft and Mara, has been a constant presence at these meetings, the first of which was held May 31 and all of which have been held before Boylan.
The parties have spent the past four weeks largely discussing the revenue split. It's not just the current revenue, but also how to account for the league's future growth -- particularly when the 2014 television deals are done -- in the players' take. The idea of an "all revenue" model, which would eliminate cost credits to the owners and limit revenue projections, has bridged some differences, but the issue hasn't been settled.
The revenue split remains an explosive topic, despite some recent momentum, and as much as they've tried, the parties just haven't been able to solve it. If anything can jeopardize these talks, it's that issue. Conversely, if it's solved, the rest could fall into place
With the players believing that the owners had reneged on a “verbal handshake” deal regarding the revenue split and with the owners insisting that everything remains negotiable until a deal is done (that’s fancy talk for “bait-and-switch”), the mood of the labor talks had turned gloomy on Thursday.
Enter Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, who by all accounts become much more than a fly on the wall and stepped up to prevent the talks from collapsing, as explained by Mike Freeman of CBSSports.com. Per Albert Breer of NFL Network, it was Boylan who pushed for the talks to continue late into the night. Boylan even wanted to continue past 1:00 a.m., but the principles were out of steam. (Free advice: Less Rob Roys, more push-ups.)
The result? Breer reports that “major strides” were made regarding the revenue split, both last night and this morning. Given the players’ perception that the owners changed the terms as to the most important term between the two sides, we think the immediate goal should be to strike a firm agreement on that issue, write it up, put it to bed, and move on to other issues, which will prevent the league from trying to later adjust the terms or alter the key definitions or otherwise take advantage of the perception that the players ultimately will agree to whatever the owners’ last, best offer may be.
It all starts up again Tuesday. Which means that every player, coach, assistant coach, scout, personnel director, G.M., other team employee, agent, and media member can look forward to a three-day weekend of answering this question from family, friends, neighbors, and complete strangers: “So, are we gonna have football this year?”
1niksder wrote:that’s fancy talk for “bait-and-switch”
That's not what bait and switch means. Reporters would sound less stupid if they'd learn to use Google. They'd still be stupid, but they'd sound less stupid.
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
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1niksder wrote:that’s fancy talk for “bait-and-switch”
That's not what bait and switch means. Reporters would sound less stupid if they'd learn to use Google. They'd still be stupid, but they'd sound less stupid.
Dude! Many reporters don't care if they sound stupid to some... as long as their agenda is served (much like lawyers). In this case, the reporter is clearly aligned with the players, therefore, his need to spin the players' stance as 'completely objective'.
Now, I don't know what is true, in this case... but I'm not going to jump to believe that either side is particularly devious, at this point. Why a reporter would feel that his need to spin (to the benefit of one side) is more critical than demonstrating real objectivity at this point is beyond me. On the other hand, if he has actual documentation of ownership (or the Players Association) behaving in a duplicitous manner... bring it.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
The league may continue to lock out the players, and the players may continue to pursue a $12 billion verdict for violation of the antitrust laws.
But there’s an intriguing loophole that, absent a resolution, could make things very complication for the league.
At pages 33 and 34 of the ruling the Eighth Circuit suggests that Judge Nelson could impose an injunction as it relates to players not under contract (i.e., free agents and rookies). To do so, however, Judge Nelson must conduct a hearing at which testimony and other evidence is introduced. This could lead to a ruling that would require the NFL to negotiate with and sign free agents and rookies, despite the existence of the lockout.
However, according to legal sources who have read Friday's ruling, the language from the 8th U.S. Circuit Court creates an opportunity for the NFL Players Association to file another expedited injunction seeking additional rights for rookies and free agents not under contract. And, according to a high-placed source within the NFLPA, the players would file that injunction if a labor agreement is not struck in short order.
The NFL would not be permitted to appeal any ruling by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson regarding a new injunction for rookies and free agents, according to lawyers who have read Friday's decision. The wording of Friday's decision says that injunction, if sought, would be legal.
Adam Schefter of ESPN was the first one to get the news out, and multiple reporters followed shortly thereafter. Schefter said that some “t’s” had to be crossed and some “i’s” dotted, but the issue is no longer in the way of an agreement in principle between the owners.
NFL owners reportedly compromised on year five money for rookies. The players gave a little on some renegotiation rules, according to Albert Breer.
There are still issues to work out before an agreement in principle on the CBA can be worked out, but the rookie wage scale was seen as the biggest obstacle. Mark Maske of the Washington Post calls the deal “within reach” Friday, but believes a few more days is likely.
With a deal in place on the rookie wage scale, the NFL and the players apparently are moving quickly toward a full and complete CBA.
Sal Paolantonio of ESPN (via Chris Mortensen’s Twitter page) reports that a settlement is now on the fast track. Chris Mortensen of ESPN (via Chris Mortensen’s Twitter page) reports that, at the current pace, a deal could come within the next 24-to-48 hours.
Per Mort,”[e]ven skeptical participants among negotiating teams are almost stunned at momentum resolving remaining issues.”
The remaining issues include the question of whether free agency with fewer than six years of service will be subject to a “right of first refusal,” whether judicial oversight will apply to the labor deal, and whether and to what extent league-imposed discipline will be reviewed by someone other than the Commissioner or his designee. As to the last two issues, Mort reports that a panel of three retired judges is being considered for the purposes of overseeing all discipline and disputes, which would address the league’s desire to keep the courts out of the process of interpreting the CBA — and which would address the players’ desire to keep the Commish from having final say over any discipline he imposes.
Regardless of how it all works out, it now appears that a deal is within striking distance. Just in time to save the preseason and all the money that goes along with it.
Put LangleyParkJoe in charge of player discipline... that'd work.
Beyond that... talk to me when you have a deal... knock of the "leaks" and crap. It's just talk until the pen hits the paper...
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
With a deal in place on the rookie wage scale, the NFL and the players apparently are moving quickly toward a full and complete CBA.
Sal Paolantonio of ESPN (via Chris Mortensen’s Twitter page) reports that a settlement is now on the fast track. Chris Mortensen of ESPN (via Chris Mortensen’s Twitter page) reports that, at the current pace, a deal could come within the next 24-to-48 hours.
Per Mort,”[e]ven skeptical participants among negotiating teams are almost stunned at momentum resolving remaining issues.”
The remaining issues include the question of whether free agency with fewer than six years of service will be subject to a “right of first refusal,” whether judicial oversight will apply to the labor deal, and whether and to what extent league-imposed discipline will be reviewed by someone other than the Commissioner or his designee. As to the last two issues, Mort reports that a panel of three retired judges is being considered for the purposes of overseeing all discipline and disputes, which would address the league’s desire to keep the courts out of the process of interpreting the CBA — and which would address the players’ desire to keep the Commish from having final say over any discipline he imposes.
Regardless of how it all works out, it now appears that a deal is within striking distance. Just in time to save the preseason and all the money that goes along with it.
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When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....
I'm glad that they're taking some of Roger's power away, he had too much for one man. Fines and suspensions have too dramatic of an effect on Sundays for one man to control.
He's human like anyone else and is subject to overrating, favoritism, spite, etc etc.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm glad that they're taking some of Roger's power away, he had too much for one man. Fines and suspensions have too dramatic of an effect on Sundays for one man to control.
He's human like anyone else and is subject to overrating, favoritism, spite, etc etc.
Agree with CLL.... he was like the the "Almighty" omnipotent of the NFL. Take him down a notch or two.
CLL is back.......hmm, I smell Football season coming.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
IMO, I can't see the NFL and Players risking losing $200 million over what is left to resolve; however, the end will down to the wire to resolve what is left. I believe that the Owners will be ready to vote on the 21st.
No deal Friday: NFL, NFLPA* release joint statement on “constructive” talks
The NFL and NFLPA* negotiations will reportedly break Friday without any champagne popping, but it appears we’re inching ever closer to a deal.
The two sides released a joint statement Friday. Here it goes, from Albert Breer of NFL.com:
“The discussions this week have been constructive and progress has been made on a wide range of issues. Our legal and financial teams will continue to work throughout the weekend.
“We will continue to respect the confidentiality orders of Chief Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan and will therefore refrain from commenting on specific issues or aspects of the negotiations. We will provide additional information as developments in the process continue,” the statement reads.
Breer writes that only two real issues remain: The settlement details of the litigation, and player safety issues related to the offseason. (We’re uncertain what happened to the right of first refusal idea.) The Legacy Fund for retired players is reportedly no longer seen as a stumbling block.
NFLPA* chief DeMaurice Smith said he will continue to talk or meet with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell through the weekend. The player and owners are scheduled to meet with Boylan Tuesday. The owners meet Thursday the 21st, and the goal will be to have them vote on a CBA then.
